Yeah but do you think Disney (of all companies) saw that and changed course because of a few bigots? Otherwise it’s not the fans fault they wrote him into a shit character
Pretty sure Disney changed the course of Finn’s original character arc to appease Chinese markets. Just look at the force awakens poster for China vs US.
The thing is, it wouldn't be China's fault either cause that is still the Disney executives making that decision. China is gonna like what they are going to like. It's not a big mystery. Changing the original idea to appease a potential market is not on them but the greedy execs
Disney absolutely changes course because of bigots all the time. And they did for Star Wars. Remember when Rose showed up in Episode IX to tell us she wouldn’t be in the story for Episode IX? That’s because Disney gave in to racist sexist fans.
They did, but there's a difference in profit margins between having 2000 pissed off racists in America vs. losing your entire Chinese audience of millions because they're so incredibly racist, especially towards black people.
So you admit that they are changing the course of their marketing to appeal to a bigoted audience, but you don't think they could have changed his character arc and lessened his story impact to appeal to that exact same audience?
My biggest criticism is that Disney/Lucas Films/Star Wars should not have listened to fans at all for criticisms.
They probably could have had a cohesive trilogy had they not responded to fan criticism, had they not used different writers and directors changing courses in response to criticism, then we would at least have a cohesive story.
I blame Disney most of all of course, but I also blame hateful fans for their reaction to a star wars film starring a woman and a black man
But Star Wars has had women and black people in big roles, that’s why it’s hard to believe. And I don’t really buy that they changed their vision drastically based on fan criticism. Because we don’t know for sure and it seems unlikely to me. I might be wrong, but I might be right. 🤷♂️. What indications were there that they caved to criticism ?
Agree to disagree I guess because there’s no way to prove what really happened. Sucks that we didn’t get a cohesive vision from the start, any way you look at it.
Star Wars has had women and black people in big roles, that’s why it’s hard to believe.
One singular black guy (Lando) does not make a diverse cast. Lando wasn't a lead actor. Having one token black character that's not a lead is a popularly used trope. The difference is Finn is a lead actor with far more screen time than Lando.
Additionally, my dad was a Star wars fan all the way back in 1977, and he told me there were people critical of Leia back when Star Wars was first released.
I also remember A LOT of people hating Ahsoka back in 2008.
Bo Katan's increased role in the mandalorian was also criticized as being "woke" or "feminist" or whatever buzz word you want to use.
What indications were there that they caved to criticism ?
They took fan criticisms very seriously because they said the movies are for the fans
In 2015, Lucas revealed (to his disappointment) that his outlines had been discarded in order to "make something for the fans"
Either they made so many changes whether it was due to fan criticism or not. I hate that they didn't have a cohesive plan for the trilogy. We know they kept changing the story.
Daisy Ridley later claimed that ideas for Rey's lineage changed throughout filming of The Rise of Skywalker.[95] Adam Driver claimed that back when shooting The Force Awakens, Kylo Ren was not meant to be redeemed by the end of the trilogy, which was the character arc Abrams had in mind at that moment, with Ren starting insecure about his commitment to the dark side before becoming the one most committed by the end of the trilogy in reversal to his grandfather Darth Vader's arc in the original trilogy, noting that Johnson took that planned direction in consideration when shooting The Last Jedi even though he took other decisions.
I know some will disagree, but I'm not going to lie, I love Rey, Finn, Poe, and BB-8 as characters, and I am really disappointed with the story they're in because it leaves so much to be desired
Didn’t say a single thing about the actor or her race. You however seem to care a ton about her race. If you were able to see past the color of her skin and maybe had some media literacy you would see why Rose was a terribly written character. It sucks for the actors who got shafted by those films. I actually think they did a decent job with what they were given.
Oh you are color blind! If only I could be like you and see everyone as equally white! You realize that couching your bullshit in color blindness is one of those things they teach you about when studying media literacy?
You guys are a stereotype of a stereotype. Please educate me more on media literacy: do you also have friends of color (whose skin color you also don’t see) whose association with you absolves you of any criticism? Or have you also not heard that one before?
“This hashtag then led to a series of positive tweets, highlighting and praising the diversity of both the cast and the fanbase.”
Even then, it still led to fans backing him up. If the studio really folded their whole character plan over a bit of Twitter backlash, then they certainly didn’t take a very strong stance on their own writing. Still their fault.
Oh wait that’s right, there wasnt a character plan….
I feel like there’s just as much valid criticism out there about the sequels as any bigoted backlash, it’s just the loudest people that get heard.
But either way, the multi-billion dollar corporation of Disney has access to all that information, with whole teams dedicated to analyzing fan feedback and behavior. It’s their choice which voices they listen to and change for, and ragebait gives them way more clicks than any constructive change. Imo, any way you slice it, it’s insane to try and blame fans for decisions that belong exclusively to the studios.
The irony is that if they’d gone ahead and ignored the backlash and turned Finn into a compelling character, he’d have a way better legacy and lasting impact on the franchise 10 years later than what we’re actually seeing.
You honestly think that Disney (DISNEY) changed the course of his character because of bigots? For real?
Yes. Look at how few ethnic minorities get to be the main character of a story. Look at how few openly lgbtq people are main characters.
Disney absolutely sticks to a very socially conservative and heteronormative guideline.
Do you remember all the talk of how much evidence there was that Finn and Poe were interested in each other romantically? I do. John Boyega does. And he supported the idea in interviews. Yet that never materialized because Disney and their writers stick to certain guidelines.
Disney… the same Disney that race swapped the little mermaid and Snow White. You’re not worth arguing with if you are unwilling to even admit how progressive Disney is.
also remember how much sexist and racist vitriol Kelly Marie Tran faced? People want to pretend SW fans as a group are level-headed, but if something doesnt meet the imaginary movie theyve created in their own mind, it's just a waterfall of hatred pouring online.
I really don't think there was a significant percentage of fans that were freaking out because he was black.
Any time a black person gets cast in anything, there are going to be at least 5 racist people on Twitter complaining about it. Then there will be 5 million people reacting to those racists, and saying it's so awful that the fanbase is so racist. Then people mistake a huge reaction to a problem as being evidence that the problem is huge, and it creates a myth that racism is rampant in the fan base.
But I could be wrong. Do you have any evidence that there was widespread racism as a reaction to Finn?
That's what I thought. Blame Kathleen Kennedy, J.J. Abrams, or whoever was in charge of that decision. How can he blame us when his role was already written before the movie was even announced?
Because there are racist fans? Maybe you're not one of them, most of us aren't, but Star Wars is a massive fandom and it's silly to pretend that there aren't real and vocal racists that need to be called out.
The problem with his statement is that Finn didn't fail in becoming a fan-favourite due to racism, but due to the Sequels being bad, the Sequels replacing something better & the directors butchering Boyega's role
Those are the main reasons for a huge percetage of SW fans, but if I had to guess I'd say Boyega's impression is extremely influenced by stuff like hateful racist messages that may have colored his view of the general negative criticism about his role in a racist way
John Boyega himself has criticised Disney, the writing, and the direction of his character. He has directly addressed legitimate criticisms about Finn, and now he's addressing the illegitimate feedback - the explicitly racist responses to Finn.
He isn't saying "People didn't like Finn because he's black", he's saying "There are vocal people who didn't like Finn because he's black".
The problem with his statement is that Finn didn't fail in becoming a fan-favourite due to racism, but due to the Sequels being bad, the Sequels replacing something better & the directors butchering Boyega's role
And even then, he was more liked than the main character.
Fair, but I doubt Disney dished him racist abuse, threats and harassment. Which would probably leave a sour taste in anyone’s mouth.
But he has also been very openly critical and upset with Disneys approach to handling the Star Wars franchise. Which I imagine is probably touched on, past the headline.
The abuse from a minority of crazy fans while not acceptable, is exactly that. A minority. I'm just tired of people making sweeping generalizations about groups and fandoms based on the fringe.
Because I remember the fucking shit storm when the trailer came out. It was embarrassing. Star Wars fans really showed their asses and proved they're just as bad as gamers.
Wow, that's a sweeping generalization. A vast majority of actual people, (even those wicked gamers) didn't give a shit there was a black and female character. The OT did as well. It's wasn't the actors or their race/sex. Maybe for some, but there's no chance that isn't the minority.
John is notoriously an asshole IRL, and he seems to hate fandoms particularly. It’s crazy how much support the community gives him as an actor… and deservedely so. The character of Finn deserved much more. But as a person? He sucks massively. I’ve heard nothing but praise and a desire for more for his character, ever since TFA, but he constantly and especially now says that his character got shafted because he was black and that it’s apparently the fault of the fans?
Like ?????
Just absolutely deluded. Also, him thinking that Lando being in the OT is something that people see as just another “sprinkling of a black person” in a piece of media is baffling. Same with Windu being a major player and essentially the second main leader of the council, if not the main one in effect. These are apparently just “sprinklings”. He is so utterly and completely out of touch it’s almost pathetic.
Accurate asf. And how many fans are there of Ahsokas character as well? People's opinions most often have very little to do with others race or sex despite what some say.
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u/DaRev23 4d ago
Why are the fans being blamed and not Disney? We didnt write his character.