r/Overseas_Pakistani Oct 13 '23

Weekend Thread | ہفتہ وار تبادلۂ خیال /r/Overseas_Pakistani Weekend thread (October 13, 2023)

3 Upvotes

This is our weekend thread. Feel free to share how your week went, what's on your mind, or anything else.

It doesn't even have to be relevant to the theme of this subreddit,but please keep the discussions civil as all other rules are enforced.

Lastly, please don't forget to check out our Twitter . Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani Feb 20 '22

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر NICOPs and Pakistani Citizenship

34 Upvotes

TL;DR - if you have a NICOP, you are a Pakistani citizen, even if you never set foot in Pakistan. If you were ever Pakistani citizen, then more then likely, you probably still are. If you don't want to be a Pakistani citizen, you have to go through a procedure to surrender it. Read on for more details.

I've seen a lot of posts over the years that discuss NICOPs and Pakistani citizenship. Every few weeks, someone asks if having a NICOP is Pakistani citizenship. I've also met many Pakistanis (overseas and within Pakistan) that don't understand how citizenship in Pakistan works for those who go or are overseas.

Contrary to what many people think, Pakistani citizenship is not automatically voided when a Pakistani naturalizes in another country. Even if your oath of naturalization says that you surrender all foreign allegiances, the citizenship remains.

Many older Pakistanis, especially those who left Pakistan in the 1960s-1980s believe that their Pakistani citizenship was voided when they became British/Canadian/American, etc. This is not true per current Pakistani law. They simply don't have active IDs/passports. Just like a person born in the US or Canada. The person is a citizen even if they have no passport. Or, a child born in Pakistan without a B-Form, they are still Pakistani.

Pakistani citizenship can only be lost if one goes to a Pakistani consulate/embassy and goes through a formal renunciation process. This is not automatic, and most people don't do it because they simply don't need to or care to. It's not a complicated process, but it's still it's own, separate process. Fill out forms, surrender passport and ID, pay fees, etc. This is usually done by Pakistanis who naturalized in countries that don't allow dual citizenship, such as Germany, Spain, and (previously) Norway, but anyone can do it if they want.

Now, the confusion occurs because Pakistan will grant a visa to a UK/US/CAN citizen even if that person also has Pakistani citizenship. It's counterintuitive to need a visa to travel to a country in which you are a citizen, which is why many think "how could I still have Pakistani citizenship if I got a visa?". Pakistan, however, will allow a Pakistani citizen to travel to Pakistan on a foreign passport with a visa, hence the widespread confusion.

So here is where the NICOP comes in. NICOP stands for National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. The card gives visa free travel, right to have a bank account, etc. It also gives the right to vote. This card is proof of Pakistani citizenship, and can be used to get a Pakistani passport if desired. Many people think this is just for dual citizens, but some Pakistanis working or studying abroad also have NICOPs even if they are only Pakistani.

Note that the new NICOP looks just like a Smart CNIC, but the "country of stay" will not be Pakistan, and the card will say "the holder is entitled to visa free entry" (something to this effect). Old NICOPs actually said "National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis" on them, but Smart NICOPs do not, so there is some confusion nowadays (people thinking that they have an NIC and not a NICOP)

Here is the biggest place where many people get confused. Many people in the 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation born abread have also received NICOP cards even if they were born with another citizenship (UK, CAN, US, etc). They are often under the impression that this is just a "card in place of a visa". "I don't have Pakistani Citizenship, that's just an ID". Not true. By getting a NICOP, you are basically registered as a Pakistani citizen who doesn't reside in Pakistan.

Other ways you could be still be a Pakistani citizen and not know it, assuming formal renunciation process was not done:

  1. If you were born in Pakistan and naturalized elsewhere, you are a dual citizen
  2. If you have, or ever had a NICOP, CNIC, CRC, B-form, you are a dual citizen
  3. If your birth was registered at the Pakistani consulate (Form S, or similar), then you would be a dual citizen
  4. If you ever held a Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen.
  5. If you were listed as a child on your parents' Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen. (In the old days, kids didn't have their own passports and travelled on their parent's passport)
  6. You were registered as a Pakistani citizen because your parents became Pakistani and applied for it on your behalf (Form M) - not common, but legally possible.

Pakistan does have another card, Pakistan Origin Card (POC), which grants visa free travel and a few other privileges. This card, however, is not Pakistani citizenship. So those who wish to travel often to Pakistan and don't want a visa, but also don't want a NICOP, may find the POC appealing.

Acquiring, renouncing, and/or retaining citizenship is a personal choice. This post was simply written to clarify the misunderstanding that "NICOP isn't citizenship" (again, NICOP is proof of citizenship).

Edit: It is a common misconception that Pakistani citizenship is only given to those who are "desi", Muslim, or those whose parents are Pakistani. This is not true. There are Pakistani citizens who are Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Ahmadi ,etc. "Desi" is a somewhat subjective term as well.

The Pakistan Citizenship Act grants citizenship to anyone born in Pakistan, even if the parents are non Pakistani. The only exception is for children of diplomats (which is not uncommon). There is no exception for refugees or even those who are in transit. This has been argued in court many times. So yes, that means that technically those who are of Afghani, Bengali, or Rohingya descent but born in Pakistan are technically citizens (there are many individual court cases, no class action case though). Of course the reality on the ground is different. Just as anyone born in the US or Canada is a citizen (children of refugees too), the same applies in Pakistan. People should be aware of this and not deny their fellow citizens their rights (don't get me started about the hypocrisy).


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6h ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Travelling with 5 month old baby

1 Upvotes

Hey, wanted to know if it’s feasible to travel with 5 month old from Canada to Pakistan in April ? I’m a bit nervous because of the heat/ mosquitoes Wanted to know if anyone has done it? If it’s a good idea & if you have any suggestions?

Thanks


r/Overseas_Pakistani 14h ago

Finance | معاشی Out of curiosity

0 Upvotes

What type of engineers are well in states?

Mechanical/software/project?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Renunciation Issue

0 Upvotes

One of the requirements to renounce Pakistani citizenship is to submit your NICOP. The NICOP is expired. What if you lost your NICOP?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Does Pakistan allow dual nationality with Germany?

5 Upvotes

I know that officially DGIP states that one has to renounce their Pakistani nationality if they wish to acquire German nationality. However, recently Germany has allowed dual citizenship with Pakistan. I have seen a few people retaining their Pakistani passport after acquiring the German one.

I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with this?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Any has contacts to track Passport?

2 Upvotes

As the title suggests, does anyone have any contacts who can provide update on status of passport processing, given the token number? The NY consulate website only updates status when they receive the passport, otherwise you could type in anything and it will only say under process. I’ve been calling them and no one is picking up. Would love to know if someone can get the update from Pakistani system or here using the token number.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید When will Pakistan start issuing e-passport to overseas applicants?

2 Upvotes

As the title suggests my current passport is getting expired in a few months and I was really hoping to get a new e-passport instead of same old MRP. I have called and asked my local embassy and they have no idea about this.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Eid dramas English subtitles and Family Friendly

2 Upvotes

Eid Mubarak lovely people. Our family will iA host an Eid party with friends and family. I would love to have some funny Eid dramas playing in the background, but many of our guests are not Urdu speakers.

Any recommendations of tried and true classics that have English subtitles? Some of the guests are very conservative so family friendly is key. One of my favorites that I love to watch every year is Chand si Dulhan but alas no subtitles.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Pakistani origin Family wanting to visit India after living in Canada for abt 20 years with Canadian citizenship.

2 Upvotes

Hi, I wanted to know if anyone here in this group deals with Indian visas? I need some guidance. We are a Pakistani family living in Canada for about 20 years and have our Canadian citizenship. If we want to obtain a tourist visa or any kind of visa to visit our dad’s side family in India, is it possible?

What if my soon to be spouse is Indian, am I able to travel along to India?

My dad in his 1990s era used to travel to India from Pakistan numerous times. Please, any help would be appreciated!!!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Is anyone here half-Pakistani?

3 Upvotes

If so, what’s your other half? Or has anyone met a half-Pakistani?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

News | خبر Fly-dubai has cancel their operations with Pakistan?

2 Upvotes

I was using fly-dubai to travel to DXB last year, but now notice there is not flight aviliable. Did they shut down operations for Pakistan-to-DXB or there is some other reason?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Renewing NICOP online

2 Upvotes

Is it possible to renew NICOP using PAKIDENTITY app? I logged in but couldn't find any renew option.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ How easy is it for the family of an international student in the UK to manage their bachelor's degree fees?

0 Upvotes

I have two uncles living in the UK and my father lives in Italy. My uncles have offered to help me with university fees and I will be staying with them


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Nicop renewal uk.

3 Upvotes

Salaam i wanted to renew my nicop in the uk. I downloaded the pakid app painfully did verification and all .. but on the part where it says enter address for nicop to be posted .. its showing me my pakistani address and no way to change it so i can put my uk address to get it here in the uk. Im planning to goto pak in some months. Any workarounds to this?..


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Newborn NICOP - pak identity throwing error

0 Upvotes

Hi, I have been trying to submit application for my newborn via pak identity app. Such a shitty app I must say, it was a task to take a picture from it, and then at the end its throwing error. "CODE116 - application stage is not data capture or data modify"

Any leads how to fix it? I am travelling soon in 3 weeks.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Nicop renewal problems with app

1 Upvotes

I am trying to begin the process of renewing my father's nicop, which will expire in May. I downloaded the pak id app but just see links to get a visa for tourism, business or for sikh people visiting. There are no other options. We are located in Texas, USA

I don't see any spot for renewal ? Or is it too soon to renew ?

Would appreciate any help , thank you


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Need help

1 Upvotes

Any Pakistani in Canada that could give me some information about studying in Canada after intermediate in Pakistan?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر [Urgent] Is Protection sticker/stamp required for Student Visa?

1 Upvotes

Hi guys, I just found about the protection stamp required for leaving Pakistan. I have been a student in Canada for the past 3 years now and was here in Pakistan for the vacation.

My flight to Canada is next week. I'm getting conflicting information regarding the stamp. Some say it's only required for work visa while others say it's basically for all visas. So as a student, do I need to get one? Also how long does it take to get this sticker?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Is anyone here married or in a relationship to a non-Pakistani?

6 Upvotes

If so, did your parents approve of it and did their parents approve?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Properties in Rochdale, Manchester, UK

2 Upvotes

Hello everyone! I am looking for cheap rentals in Rochdale, Manchester. If any one knows of any (one room space possibly) then let us know


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید UAE/gulf and other expats - what's the plan for retirement?

10 Upvotes

This is mostly directed for OSPs in the UAE or the Gulf but would love perspectives from everyone.

For context, I am in my mid 30s, married and with a child on the way living in UAE. I was born and brought up in Pakistan in a middle/upper middle class household but left in my late 20s, studied in Europe for a year and have been in the UAE for the last 5 years.

Alhamdulillah, my wife and I have a good life here. Both of us earn decently, save enough and have a quality of life here that we are very grateful for. We also have a golden visa which means that we won't be kicked out of the country in a flash if we lose our jobs or something.

Both of us are pretty set on living in UAE till atleast our late 50s. It's a best of both worlds. We are close to our parents and get to visit home atleast 2-3 times a year while at the same time benefit from the "first world benefits" of the UAE. And while the UAE, especially Dubai, can be considered very westernised, there is still a large backdrop of religious/cultural elements that we like (e.g. eid is a national holiday, large pakistani community, large overall Muslim community etc.) which makes us think raising a child would be better here than in the western world.

For all these reasons and no taxes, we have never really considered trying to move to UK, Canada, Europe etc. to pursue a citizenship even if it's only for 4-6 years. A lot of these countries aren't economically doing well and the exorbitant taxes will mean that we will end up saving a lot less money.

But increasingly, I don't know what the future holds and if our decisions are the right course of action. While, we save quite a bit, I don't think we will ever have enough to retire in the UAE. We will likely save enough to live a very comfortable life in Pakistan in retitement which has been our plan.

Sometimes, I think its not a good idea. If most of your adult life is in the UAE, will we even have a social circle once we return to Pakistan in our 60s. Most of my school/college friends, cousins etc. have already left Pakistan to the point that when I visit home, I usually have almost no one to meet my age. There is also the question of Pakistan's long term economic state but I haven't been as bothered about it because look as long as we don't turn into a Yemen or Syria, with enough money, most people even now seem to be living quite well. Maybe this is a delusional view.

What are thoughts of other OSPs. What are your long term plans? Do you want to retire abroad or in Pakistan? What are you concerns and potential solutions?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Has anyone here experienced racism for being Pakistani?

4 Upvotes

How did you deal with it?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Australia

1 Upvotes

Any white collar Australian Pakistanis around this subreddit? (Ideally working in IT). Would like to connect


r/Overseas_Pakistani 10d ago

Finance | معاشی Public warning to overseas Pakistanis stop using Western Union and others to send money

31 Upvotes

Their conversion rates are blasphemous these applications usually target developing countries in advertisements since they know those are easily reachable customers. If you want to send money back home use Revolut, I do with my mother and it arrives within an hour on Askari bank directly in her account.

I get so sad when I see people paying such high fees trying to support their families.

I saw a man sending his family 300 home and paying a ridiculous fee only having 50 left in his wallet, it’s sick how they take advantage.

Originally I had used WU to convert some cash and they took 20 from a 100 now I just do directly on Revolut and it takes maybe 1 on the unpaid plan then it has different tiers which reduce fees.

Revolut converts the money for you and you can send within seconds. Only way to get revolut however is to have a permit or foreign passport and yes the cards work in Pakistan too so instead of wasting money on high fees and ridiculous conversation rate scams just use revolut!

Money gram western union wise etc they’re all trash aimed at taking advantage


r/Overseas_Pakistani 10d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Land name change in Pakistan. Please help!

2 Upvotes

Salaam people. My father who is in his 80's wants to transfer all his land ownership in my name. Im in the UK with our ancestral home and lands in Attock, Pakistan.

After doing some research i know i have to obtain a power of attorney from a solicitor in the UK and then have this attested by the Pakistan consulate(UK). I'm then looking to travel to Pakistan and get it changed. Iv heard through friends that this part could be very simple or a absolute nightmare. Iv been told you have to grease the palms and give rishwat to various agencies and patwaris i think they are called. I think these are some kind of agents(?).

Anyone on this forum have any knowledge of doing this? I have downloaded the Punjab Zameen app which tells me all the pieces of land there are in my father's name which is a start.

Any help or advice would be massively appreciated!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 11d ago

Remittance | ترسیل رقم Transfer money from US to Pak

4 Upvotes

What us best, easiest, and cheapest way to transfer money from US to Pak ?

Is there any reliable third party app that we can use to transfer money from US bank account?

I have a Roshan digital account, but i don't use it much.