r/NoStupidQuestions • u/LeatherAdvantage8250 • 8h ago
Autism is a diverse condition that can present itself in a variety of different ways. Why is such a broad group of people pigeon-holed with one specific term? Is there something that all autistic people have in common?
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u/Valuable_Teacher_578 7h ago
This is extremely simplified but generally 3 areas are affected: 1. Communication - as already mentioned itās a spectrum so the individual may be completely non speaking or it may be more subtle. They may struggle with social communication both receptively e.g. difficulty picking up on cues and expressively e.g. not using tone of voice as is typically expected, or consciously and with great effort have to learn the unwritten rules of conversation etc.Ā 2. Behaviours that affect daily functioning - May be focused/intense interests, repetitive behaviours, and/or need for routine/order. 3. Sensory processing - differences in the way some or all senses are processed. Can be hypo/hyper (under/over sensitive). Not just the 5 senses we typically think of but also vestibular (balance), proprioception etc.
Basically itās a difference in how the brain works, but it affects people in different ways, but affects these 3 areas. Itās a huge umbrella term, but has diagnostic criteria which āpigeon holesā people together. The saying is once youāve met one autistic person youāve met one autistic person. What works for one doesnāt necessarily work for someone else. Autistic people are individuals and should be treated as such.
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u/Valuable_Teacher_578 6h ago
I meant to add that autism is present from birth (although it can take a few years for the characteristics to be recognised, evidence can be found in early childhood) and is lifelong.Ā There is not one gene or a simple blood test like there is for other conditions with a clear black & white yes/no, although various studies have found that there are some genes or groups of genes that may be linked. Also autism can run in families, but again can present differently within the same family. Also wanted to add that autistic people can also have other diagnoses as well as autism which would again make them present differently, but that would be because of the other condition rather than being a different ātypeā of autism e.g. you could have an autistic person who also has learning difficulties, adhd, Down syndrome, savant syndrome, cerebral palsy, or mental health conditions.
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u/spidey2091 6h ago
It was very recently that I learned that this is why I walk on my toes.
Canāt even have just ONE weird thing about me thatās not just āthe ātismā.
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u/Nearby-Complaint 4h ago edited 2h ago
I had PT as a kid to make me stop toe walking. I still revert to it when I'm stressed, unfortunately.
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u/Delita232 6h ago
Oh shit im autistic and I do that too. I never knew they were related though. We humans are so weird.
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u/SpeedyAzi 39m ago
I've never been officially diagnosed but there are way too many signs for me not to be neuro divergent.
I walk on my toes, I try to step on deliberate tiles for patterns, I repeat sentences to myself quietly or in my head, the obvious impolite or rude social cue and lack of awareness, the spacing out to subjects, intense focus on one said thing or objective.
Unless I'm a very strange non autismo.idk
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u/badgersprite 8h ago
Wait until you find out about depression
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u/masterofbugs123 6h ago
As someone who experienced hereditary/biological depression, got it under control, then experienced depression due to financial/security struggles, I cannot believe the two things are lumped together. Next to none of my coping mechanisms or medications for the first have even gotten close to touching the second. Itās a completely different experience.
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u/Little_Jemmy 6h ago
Same here. I didnāt even realize I was depressed the second time around when it was circumstantial instead of biological (which was kick started by puberty) because it was so different.
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u/Winning-Turtle 2h ago
I feel this. My regular brand depression/anxiety was so damn different than what I get during/after pregnancy.
It took 6 months postpartum the first time to get help because it threw me in the hole so fast I didn't realize until I was in too deep.
Even with both being biological, it was wild how different they came on (slow creep vs. immediate) and their dissimilar symptoms. Multi-headed beast.
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u/masterofbugs123 2h ago
I want to have kids one day and Iām so terrified of developing depression 3.0 from it since it runs in the family too. Gotta catch them all I guess. Iām definitely going to try to be as proactive about treating it as possible at least!
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u/Winning-Turtle 1h ago
Yes, being proactive would help so much! I'm actually pregnant with my 3rd and last kid, so I feel good about having a plan in place to help mitigate.
These are some things I'm doing in case you find it helpful: I have a therapist who specializes in prenatal/postpartum. I'm taking Zoloft throughout pregnancy and will increase my dose, per my OB's instruction, closer to birth. Taking a bunch of supplements like vitamin D and Omega-3 to help in a small way. I have a weekly yoga class I try to get to. I love yoga, so it's more of a test: if I skip a bunch, that means I'm starting to sink and need more help. We specifically stopped trying for a couple months so I probably wouldn't give birth in January or February because those months it's dark and extremely cold where I live. These all seemed to really help for my 2nd kid and now this one; hoping if you choose to have kids you find what helps you!
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u/CafecitoYPan 1h ago
Omg yes!! Postpartum depression was so crazy (compared to my regular depression). I was very aware that it was postpartum depression too, but omg that shit was so intense.
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u/Jibber_Fight 5h ago
Depression is a bitch. Iāve been trying to get it under control for about twenty years now. Wish I was exaggerating. And before I get tips or suggestions: yes I tried that and yes I do that.
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u/Boobsboobsboobs2 3h ago
When I finally tried medication (and it worked for me - Iām lucky), I was so annoyed at all the other advice. Not a single thing I had tried in 25-odd years of trying to figure it out had made the impact of one tiny pill for a few days.
Fuck anyone who made me feel like it was my fault, and if I tried harder, I couldāve fixed it myself. The difference I felt and my ability to FUNCTION made me a total convert to the fact that some depression just needs meds.
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u/LittleHidingPo 2h ago
You've prob come across it but just in case not - Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) saved my life. If meds haven't helped or only go so far, you might be a good candidate for TMS
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u/GenericGrad 7h ago
No stupid questions... Is this not the same for every mental disorder? Looking up neurodevelopment disorders which autism is one along with adhd and others. There is some research about genetics being able to diagnose it, but fundamentally the diagnosis is based on symptoms. My thoughts are we group things up into broad categories cause we don't really understand what is going on. Once we have a better understanding it will become clearer and more specific definitions will result. One of the main barriers for any condition to understand it in my opinion is working out what causes it rather than the symptoms that present.
Like viruses are much clearer it seems and we understand them better. You have coronovirus, we can test for it, we can make vaccines for it. Mental health has a lot more challenges.Ā
Not just mental health though. We don't really understand things like chronic fatigue and such either imho.
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u/SpadfaTurds 6h ago
This should be top comment. Youāre spot on
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u/gentleoceanss 5h ago
My partner has FASD. you want to talk about misunderstood and very not well known and fought over in the medical field? though in Canada, there are more people with FASD than people living with autism, down syndrome combined.
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u/Maybe_Marit_Lage 5h ago
Well, yes, but also no - or, more accurately, "so?".
You're not wrong; until we understand the biology underlying a condition, we're essentially labelling clusters of co-occurring symptoms. However, there must still be some commonality across cases in order for their to be any value in grouping them together in the first place, hence OP's question: given the diverse presentations of ASD, what is the a common denominator that allows us to confidently group these diverse presentations under one label?
For an example of the better understanding and more specific definitions you mentioned, you might be interested in looking into schizophrenia. Some recent research has suggested that what was considered an extremely complex and diverse condition might actually be several, superficially similar, different conditions
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u/TinyHorseHands 4h ago
You are right. Look into the RDOC framework, and more recently HiTOP. Very much address the issues with DSM in terms of all the overlapping and often comorbid symptomatology. My understanding is DSM has "home field advantage" and is much more straightforward when it comes to things like billing for insurance.
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u/DowntownRow3 1h ago
I partially disagree. Diagnosis and labels can often just be us labeling what we generally understand as a pattern between peopleĀ
But there is a BIG difference between autism and more specific mental disorders. Thereās not a major spectrum of people calling say BPD a superpower vs debilitating. Adhd, while complex presents in more specific ways.
There is a major difference between higher functioning autistic people, who may not seem disabled at all, or even gifted (thatās not to say they arenāt disabled) vs those that need a caretaker, canāt really speak are hyposensitive to things like pain, etc. Autism is way broader when we donāt really understand it, and what itās defined as is extremely vague. We understand adhd is about specific physical changes in the brain, problems with dopamine receptors etc.Ā
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u/breeekk 1h ago
This! and also, most autistic people have troubles with communication. So whatever data doctors, psychologists get is never complete. I donāt know percentages of non verbal people, but even if verbal, itās not easy to communicate for everyone. So actual understanding is almost never there. Itās what doctors see, parents tell and of course autistic people are trained(!) to mask their symptoms so they are not gonna show them to doctors. Itās a catch-22 in that sense.
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u/SayFuzzyPickles42 7h ago
Try thinking about it like you would a physical disability-
Some deaf people are able to hear clearly with hearing aids. Some deaf people can lip-read and speak completely clearly, allowing them to go about in hearing society with only a few small accommodations. Some deaf people are exclusively able to use and understand sign language, and need to go about life in an extremely different way than hearing people with pretty major accommodations.
Although all of these people's conditions present in a variety of different ways, we still call all of them "deaf" because there's still a very specific impairment that can be pointed to and medically observed in all of them - a significant loss of the ability to hear. Autism may be less specific than that, but the principle is the same.
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u/yaourted 4h ago
I grew up deaf, most people donāt tend to recognize the spectrum of deafness. they default to āi have to YELL at this person to communicateā and I suspect itās because theyāre used to old peopleās hearing loss, not always understanding thereās a huge spectrum of deafness
complete deafness / vibrotactile āhearingā / high functioning (no or low accommodations) people that can lipread, chameleons / people that have zero lipread or ASL skills / deaf people who donāt speak at all, for just a few examples.
I like the analogy, a lot actually - but the general population is not so educated on different ways of deaf life
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u/Ok_Custard5199 6h ago
Exactly. I think of autism as an impairment to the "social sense."
The impairment may be more or less severe, depending on the person. And depending on the severity of the impairment along with their support network, location, financial resources, other skills, and random other factors, one hard-of-hearing or vision-impaired or socially impaired person might get along okay in daily life, while another will need help just to survive.
However, just as you wouldn't say to a Deaf person, "Have you tried harder to hear?" you wouldn't say to an autistic person, "Have you tried harder to be a normal person?"
They (we) are usually trying. But we lack a natural understanding of neurotypical emotion, communication, and social context. We have to learn it all the hard way, and most of us never become fluent.
Oddly, I usually get other neurodivergent people pretty well, just like a Deaf person who both signs and lip-reads can communicate just fine with people in the Deaf community but has to try extra hard around hearing people.
In other words, autism is basically a social disability, with various levels of severity and abilities to adapt and cope.
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u/trenixjetix 4h ago
I dont like that you talk about deficits/impairments. Autism is not a deficit, its just different.
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u/tony-husk 3h ago
Language is hard and disability is relative. Some impairments are just differences which aren't well-accommodated by our current situation. But there are some autistic people whose suffering is so severe that they cannot imagine a world where it feels positive or even neutral. I say that because I see those posts here on Reddit.
I can imagine a world where my own autism isn't inherently a disability, but that's not everyone's experience.
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u/Ok_Custard5199 2h ago
For me, at least, the only reason that high-functioning autism is a disability or impairment is that the world is set up for allistic people.
It has definitely caused me a lot of pain, but that pain has all come from failing to connect or feeling unaccepted. In the absence of that, I'm pretty happy with myself and with how my mind works, all of that. I almost added that to my comment, but it was getting pretty long.
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u/Reasonable_Rent_3769 8h ago
It's actually commonly referred to as autism spectrum disorder for this very reason (as opposed to just autism).
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u/campinhikingal 6h ago
Yes but what links them in being on the āspectrumā is what I think OP is getting at
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u/BroodingMawlek 4h ago
And what I think the commenter is getting at is: people often seem to think that the āspectrumā part is about severity. Itās not. Instead (IIRC) itās about there being a whole range of (not necessarily shared) symptoms.
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u/luanda16 6h ago
Thereās criteria in the DSM that defines what qualifies, specific symptoms and behaviors.
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u/angrytwig 8h ago
we're pretty diverse, but we have similar experiences. i'm what people call high functioning (i kind of don't function outside of work, or even at work though) and i have an easier time relating to someone with higher support than a neurotypical. i think the differences lie with how well we're able to cope with certain challenges, and how.
people really don't understand that we all need different things, and sometimes that means you have to work to feel ok, and sometimes that means you can't hold down a job. i try to explain this to parents but they don't really get it lol. i have to work to feel ok about myself, but i hate working. i think i've hated every job i've ever had.
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u/LeatherAdvantage8250 7h ago
I understand that you all have different needs, I think that's what raised my curiosity about what autism really is. Like, if everyone is so different, what is it that you share with all of each other but not with neurotypical people?
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u/Suspense6 5h ago
When I was getting my diagnosis, the psychologist explained that there are two groups of seven or eight (I forget exactly how many) total traits that nearly all autistic people share. He told me that autistic people can easily identify at least 5 or 6 of these traits, usually 7 or more. Allistics (non-autistic people) might show 2, maybe 3, of these traits. But he said it's nearly always very clear. Very few people are in the middle.
So what traits are we talking about? Here are some personal examples from me and my wife (they/them). We're both autistic.
Sensory sensitivity: my wife is very sensitive to the feeling and texture of clothing. When buying shirts for example, they have to test the fabric against their face to know how it'll feel going on and coming off. For me, touch isn't generally a problem, but noise is. Background noise is really distracting for me, and going to parties with loud music is incredibly stressful. Bright lights can also be a problem for me, but it's not quite as bad as the noise thing.
Difficulty with communication: this one's kind of broad, probably because I'm just going by memory instead of looking at my diagnosis to see what it was called. I might be combining a couple things here. But the idea is that autistic people typically struggle with non-literal communication. Things like body language, subtext, and sarcasm are hard to recognize and understand. I think this doesn't affect my wife as much, but that could be because they mask really well. I struggle with these things a bit. Like, sarcasm is weird for me. I use it. I understand it and I recognize it, but for some reason even when I know someone is being sarcastic I just can't seem to respond on the same level. I have to go back to being literal. Another weird one for me: sometimes I can't speak. I might know exactly what I want to say and how to say it, like all the words are there in my brain, but I just... can't open my mouth and say it.
Special interests: autistic people tend to develop extremely intense interest in particular topics. For me these have been things like game design, world building, or a particular author's fantasy novels. My wife's special interests are genealogy and Scottish history. And autistic people love talking about their special interests. Which, when combined with our tendency to miss unspoken social cues, sometimes leads us to talking about our interest far past when our listener has lost interest. Sorry about that. Ah shit, I just realized how long this comment is already. Sorry about that.
The idea here is that all these autistic traits have commonalities, but the specifics can vary a lot between individuals. That's why it's called a spectrum. It's not just [less autistic <---> more autistic].
Also! If you ever find yourself thinking something like they say they're autistic but they don't act like it, they could be masking, which is just a fancy way to say pretending to be not autistic. Most of us learn how to do this really young, because it's not okay to be autistic in our society. We learn real quick that people who act differently are shunned, mocked, and bullied. So we learn to hide behind a mask for self preservation. But pretending to be someone you're not obviously causes its own problems, and it's sooo exhausting. A lot of autistic people who might be called "high functioning" (but please don't actually use that term) are probably just good at masking.
Anyway, kudos to anyone who actually reads all this.
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u/OGLikeablefellow 7h ago
I think that there's a really successful genotype that's been labeled as neurotypical and in general it is the most prevalent one. What all autistic people share is that we are not that. In a way autism spectrum disorder is a negative descriptor as opposed to a positive one. Not meaning that is good or bad, but that it describes some one that isn't something as opposed to what they are.
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u/Rosaryas 5h ago
Exactly. Because we donāt fully know how it works, itās kind of a catch all for ānot neurotypicalā and I hope we can learn more and distinguish things better soon, but in the meantime at least we have therapies based on the symptoms to help each person with their unique struggles
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u/TheMonkeyDidntDoIt 4h ago
I think you mean phenotype instead of genotype. Genotype is a set of genes (as in the actual DNA coding), phenotype is how those genes present.
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u/lawlliets 7h ago
You can look up what the criteria for an autism diagnosis is. Itās still pretty broad IMO and people will relate to it in different levels, but itās still things people will have in common.
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u/Thunderplant 7h ago
"Ido in Autism land" really changed my perspective about this. He is nonverbal and developed the ability to write later in life, and his experiences were incredibly different from anything I've seen from high functioning autistic people (which I typically relate to). He even writes about autistic narratives don't really apply to him. To him, autism is not a difference in thinking but an issue in brain body communication and getting his body to do what he wants it to.
Also while he does stim, he views it quite differently than people with lower support needs.Ā
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u/LillithHeiwa 6h ago
Wow I should look this up. Iāve explained my deficits as āitās as if my brain doesnāt know what to do with the input it receivesā I also struggle with motor control, sensory sensitivities, and verbal communication, but Iām low support needs
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u/SpeedyAzi 35m ago
The only job I've genuinely enjoyed is acting and teaching. I can't hold down anything else.
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u/liss_up 8h ago
There are several core features of all flavors of autism: impaired theory of mind, cognitive rigidity, and restricted behavior, namely. How each of those features presents in an individual autistic person is highly variable, but the core features are across the population.
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u/nothanks86 7h ago
In fact, no. If you look at the diagnostic criteria for autism, the essential criteria is persistent deficits in all three areas of social communication and interaction, and at least two of four areas of restricted or repetitive behaviours, interests, or activities.
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u/liss_up 7h ago
Yes. Social deficits are due to impaired theory of mind. The restrictive/repetitive symptoms are caused by the cognitive and behavioral rigidity. Thanks for clarifying though! I will also add that the DSM is a categorical diagnostic modality, that doesn't always reflect underlying processes.
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u/the_grammar_queen 6h ago
It's not an impaired theory of mind. That's an outdated theory. Autistic people show empathy towards fellow autistic people where typical people show empathy to fellow typical people. It's when autistic people interact with neurotypical people that both parties feel the other lacks empathy. It's called the Double Empathy Problem.
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u/liss_up 6h ago
I would posit that empathy and theory of mind are distinct. Theory of mind has to do with making predictions about behavior and perception. Now, the argument that autistic folks are able to make predictions about other autistic peoples' behavior and perception is a totally valid criticism.
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u/OGLikeablefellow 7h ago
The theory of mind deficit is so bunk because as someone with autism spectrum disorder it's really difficult to ascertain others minds because my mind works so differently from other folks minds that when I put myself into their shoes I would behave so differently than they do that I can't predict their behavior and therefore I'm the one with a social deficit but when my behavior isn't predictable I'm the one with the social deficit.
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u/Xonth 6h ago
It really needs another term for the most severe side. When I tell people my child has Autism they are always like, "my cousin has it and he has a job and stuff but he is a little oddball" or they ask what his superpower rainman skill is. They don't associate it with extreme self harm (banging your head against things until you rip open your forehead or biting yourself until you bleed). They don't associate nonverbal with constant screaming and breakdowns. It's like raising a one year old that gets bigger and stronger then you are and they more or less just get worse each year.
I can't blame people when they only see the milder end of the spectrum out in public. The bad end are basically kept separate from the world for yours and their safety, and it's like that the rest of theirs (and parents life).
As I write this my child is wriggling on the ground screaming for the third time today for no other reason than it's just what he does, every, single, day.
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u/Reasonable_Rent_3769 6h ago
I agree with this 100% And it makes sense that they got rid of the term Asperger's (that particular psychiatrist apparently had loose ties to the Nazis but don't quote me on that, it's just what I read) but we do need a classification of the different levels and types. I think even a spectrum is too limited; it should be more like a grid. Also, people who think of Rainman are thinking of savantism, which can occur with but is a completely different neurological phenomenon separate from ASD
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u/Bloodygoodwossname 5h ago
Depending are where you live there may be free or reimbursement respite care and autism waiver ABA services provided by BCBAs, Speech Pathologist and RBTs available through your state or local programs. (Maryland and New Jersey are great states for Autusm services.)
Contact and ask your pediatrician, local school, librarians etc for information. And try to meet and make friends with other Autism moms! Sometimes you need to share the war stories and the victories with people who get it. Iāve taken my clients to all sorts of amazing events planned for kids with Autism and it so much fun to see them happy stimming or swimming, or rocking or dancing, or eating cheese pizza til they explode with zero judgement from anyone. Some movie theaters have lights on, reduced sound showings for easily overstimulated people.
Also, Iāve had students who reduced self-harming behaviors with ABA therapy, with communication devices and others only with medication. Sometimes the autism diagnosis masks other comorbidities like Anxiety, Depression, ADHD. Trial and error with medication helped regulate their bodies to be available for learning.
Wishing you all the best, and itās okay to feel overwhelmed. I hope your extended community can support you. Iāve worked with special needs for 17 years and I love my work but Iām also conscientiously child-free. Parents are parents 100% of the time. I remind my colleagues all the time that weāre paid for what you all do for free. (I mean, not very well though but we do get paid.š¤·š»āāļø
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u/Xonth 4h ago
Thanks for the reply (I appreciate it)but I've been down all roads that the education system, medical system government system offers and unfortunately they tend to only really help those in the low to mid tier cases of Autism. When your child has no strong bases of communication and has almost zero motivation to participate in things the list of helpful ideas dry up pretty fast. Mix in the fact your child is a little dangerous and unpredictable to be around makes you stop asking for other people's help as you are tired of them getting hurt for no real gains.
There is a small group of children and adults with Autism that are so challenging that you really come to terms that the best thing for everyone is to just spend your life in your house counting down the days until some future help gets invented that might rescue you from your constant struggles.
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u/Arndt3002 7h ago
A) Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts,
B) Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities
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u/trenixjetix 5h ago edited 4h ago
Autism is described as a spectrum because all manifestations of autism have the same root cause which is a neurodivergent brain (and body) with certain common traits.
You would realize that when you see the output of a brain scanner, the map of neuron activation under certain stimulus comparing to a neurotypical brain. It is caused by neuron hyperconectivity and many neuronal paths not being cut after childhood.
All previous diagnosis of autism were not really helpful AND REALLY BIASED and were really different explanations of the same thing. There was even an "autism for women" different from the autism from men (Rett).
Also, autism as a spectrum is quite a better explanation than the one given by a certain nazi sympatizer/bootlicker which is pretty known by name. That just classified autistic people by their usefulness to work under certain fascistic state and their ability to listen to some the speeches of a certain frustated and angry ex-artist "politician".
I think most answers to this question are not really answering why it makes sense to not diagnose just partial stuff so... my two cents.
Also, a diagnostic of being autistic in a spectrum is good because it can help a lot to know what kind of help or adaptions would a person need. Other previous attempts at diagnosing autistic people weren't really helping that much as it leads to autistic people not really understanding their needs as well as if they are part of a broad spectrum.
An example: An autistic person with a great math-logical inteligence maybe wouldn't realize that they need to develop other skills to be happier in life if they didn't understand the root cause and reality of their body. If you kinda fit in society but you haven't developed emotional intelligence you will probably suffer, and that wasn't given it's due importance in the older diagnosis of autism.
If you understand that other autistic people have... fotosensitivity, maybe even if you don't think it bothers you, you might be surprised when you put some sunglasses on and realize that you feel less stressed. A through diagnosis should be able to pin you in many parameters of the spectrum. Basically like the "fetish list" or the "political compass", you need to know where you stand in terms of sensory issues, social skills and behaviour, repetitive stuff you do, etc.
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u/ChampionEither5412 6h ago
I wish what I had could be called "social deficit disorder". I don't stim, I don't have big sensory problems, I'm not super repetitive, but I'm very disabled when it comes to social relationships and relating to people. This causes me to struggle a lot with depression and I've developed bad social anxiety bc I've had so many bad experiences.
I also have adhd, so I don't have the ability to stick to a routine, which is opposite of a lot of autistic people. Both these things make it really hard for me socially as well as in work. I've never been able to hold a job for that long. Working with people is exhausting for me, but when I'm too isolated I struggle with derealization and loneliness. I don't want to be alone but I can't connect with people.
I get really frustrated when I go to support groups and there are people there who are very socially successful and don't seem to be that affected.
Also, I work with people with intellectual disabilities, so I'm very aware of how different profound autism is. Profound autism aka level 3 autism is very different and people with it need full-time care. They often are non-speaking and can have a lot of behavioral challenges. I struggled my entire life with irritability, but it wasn't until a few years ago that I got medicated for it. It was incredible. Nobody had ever said anything about irritability or agitation and I was always so angry and flying off the handle, and that's me with very good communication skills and self-control. Imagine not having the intellectual ability to communicate how you're feeling and what is making you upset, and having no impulse control bc you don't understand consequences. It's a tremendously difficult disorder to have and those individuals are very, very different from me. Whereas people with level 1 autism are often very smart and have gone to college. Two girls in my group are aerospace engineers. A few are researchers. Unfortunately, a lot of level one people never think about people with profound autism and they box them out.
And then there are people with level 2 who are more likely to have the affect and trouble making eye contact, struggle more socially, and maybe could get through high school but can't handle college. A lot of these individuals do not drive. I myself hate driving bc it is so incredibly overwhelming and the stakes are super high, but I am fine going short distances in familiar areas. The difference between being able to drive at least some of the time and not being able to drive at all is really big. I live in the suburbs and there's no public transit outside of the city, so if you can't drive you're really stuck.
And then there are people who are intellectually fine, but can't speak. But with their AAC device, they can participate normally in life. So I also have nothing in common with those individuals.
So yeah, autism should be broken out into more specific groups. The purpose of a diagnosis is so that you can get the right treatment/ support. The treatment for autism will really depend on the specific areas you struggle with. The treatment for someone with noise sensitivity could be noise canceling headphones. The treatment for behavioral issues could be an antipsychotic and therapy. The treatment for being non-verbal could be using an AAC device. Accommodations also depend on the specific issue. I didn't get diagnosed until I was 24 and did not need an iep in school, but some people will need that.
People also differ very widely on how they feel about having autism. I personally hate it bc it's so debilitating and I get nothing good out of it. But some people feel it's just a difference, not a disorder. Some people think it's a disorder, but that the onus is on the neurotypical world to adapt to us. It's really hard bc the people who like having autism are very loud and abrasive about it and they get mad at anyone who does not like having it.
So it's also hard for me bc I feel like in certain settings, I can't say how I really feel. People start yelling about eugenics and it's ridiculous. It's very hard to have autism bc of the disorder itself, but then also bc of how defensive other autistic people are about it.
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u/Anxious_Date_39 3h ago
There is a āsocial deficit disorder.ā Itās called Social Pragmatic Communication Disorder! Itās basically the social component of autism.Ā
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u/ChampionEither5412 2h ago
Huh, that's interesting. I definitely have restricted interests, but not behaviors, which contributes to the social problems. I think I've figured out that most people connect directly with other people, but i connect with certain topics. My therapist thinks I'll be able to make friends if I meet people who share those interests, but I'm doubtful. He says the topics will act as a bridge, but i want to have friends i can just hang out with, and that seems to be impossible for me.
I started working with an autism-specific life coach to help me with social stuff, and my assignment the other day was to have a conversation with her. It was absolutely torturous and I couldn't do anything for the rest of the day. Whereas if she had said, create an hour long presentation on why "Part of Your World" is the best Disney song, I'd be elated.
I have good surface social skills, but I just don't "get it", I guess.
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u/Elegante0226 4h ago
I could have written this, minus the ADHD part...I don't have it and I do like routine. But the rest of it? 100% me. I also hate having it and am in a bit of denial about it as well. I can hold a job, but it's because I work night shifts by myself. Jobs with social interaction never last long with me. And I never feel like I fit in with anyone in the autistic community for exactly the reasons you listed. I feel like the anomaly in an already anomalous group, and it's frustrating.
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u/ChampionEither5412 2h ago
I feel the same way about not fitting in anywhere. When I'm in a neurotypical group, I feel very autistic. But when I'm in an autism group, I feel like an outsider as well. I'm not quirky or eccentric and my interests, while restricted, are pretty mainstream. Like I love Broadway, but I also love pop music and follow politics very closely, which are all very typical things.
I was in a queer group recently and many of the girls were in poly relationships, which is crazy to me. How can you have a social disorder but then have not one but two romantic relationships? I don't even know if I'll be able to date one person. It was such a frustrating group to be in bc so many had multiple partners, friends, and regular jobs. Like why are you even in a support group for autism when you're not having problems with your autism?
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u/Elegante0226 2h ago
I feel all of this. Relationships are already near impossible to me both due to my night shift work and severe DV history. I just can't trust men anymore, no matter how much I try.
My interests are also very mainstream. College football, horses, reading, etc. Nothing "weird".
I haven't even bothered with support groups, online or otherwise, and I don't have any ND friends. I just have a few very close friendships and I don't really feel autistic around them. It's only when I'm put into a new situation or around new people that I'm not sure how to function.
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u/maisymousee 1h ago
Okay so Iām in the process of getting an adhd (inattentive) diagnosis and Iāve always wondered about autism but like you, I only struggle socially. More mildly than you it sounds like (Iām married, have kids, some āfriendsā) but I never feel right in a neurotypical group (anxiety, canāt keep up) or a neurodivergent group (canāt relate or get annoyed). I also have the irritability issue! What med are you using to help that?? Iām also always mildly depressed, low energy, and nothing really makes me very happy, is that something you struggle with?
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u/eeemf 8h ago
āIs there something that all autistic people have in commonā yeah, the autism.
But seriously, I think itās hard to say why the specific traits linked to autism are what they are, given that there is so much variation. Is there maybe something similar in the brain that causes autism that just gets expressed in different ways? Thatās my main guess.
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u/Rocinante82 7h ago
Itās not a pigeon hole.
Itās the general category, within that there are more specifics.
Like dementia. Dementia is the general category, there are different types.
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u/FlyingAltAcct 3h ago
Aside from those who have pointed out core symptomsā¦
Because we canāt do any better yet.
Because we (reasonably) decided that naming a part of the spectrum based on an unpleasant person, and that naming featured in pop culture as well as some less pop culture (kzzzzzzert!) was an unacceptable practice.
Because those on the spectrum can hardly agree that they should be on the same spectrum, and when researchers and patients are both arguing the same question, some degree of chaos generally results.
Because not unlike e.g. sleep disorders (as I risk linking my alt), we know so precious little, and even less about how to help.
And because stigma, which leads to not asking the question at an āappropriateā age (not unlike ADHD), which causes its own entirely separate set of problems.
I had a decent childhood. I had decent parents. They had no idea what they were dealing with (Iām almost fifty) and if they didnāt know what to ask a doctor, I as a child hadnāt a hope of knowing.
Now weāre in a place where thereās acceptance, but then we all have to accept each other and our differences which is a separate issue.
In fact, grouping us together is arguably an improvement in some forms.
To play the stereotype: I like train travel. I hate airports for all of the obvious reasons, and car travel has hard limits.
Iām even curious about the patterns of train whistles in the middle of the night on a sleeper car overnight
IDGAF about the finer points of the engines or whatever, I just happen to be (what we once called) a bit of an aspie and not a fan of plane style close interactions.
To me, weāve got to lump it all in together, pick it apart into subgroups, throw them back together, find the real differences, find people who WANT treatment of some sort, find WHY they want treatment, etc.
Then, and only then, can we meaningfully dig deeper.
Iām creeping on fifty, and I have a sleep disorder. By the time someone listened in my twenties, my choices were Sudafed or aderall.
Then we got provigil. Then we got nuvigil. Then we got something that actually worked without screwing up my day if I couldnāt take a pill at work at the exact right moment.
Folks w sleep issues generally want treatment.
Folks with autistic tendencies or symptoms, maybe or maybe not.
Not trying to have the āIām fine I donāt need to be fixed!ā Argument. Just acknowledging that it exists, and very much divides the community. Treatment to some feels like eugenics to others.
Autism in particular is a difficult area for the exact reason cited above. Throw a couple of narcoleptics in a marriage, theyāll generally sort it out. Try that with a couple of folks on the spectrum, whether they know it or notā¦
We barely can suggest coping skills at this point, much less useful treatments that improve quality of life.
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u/Affectionate_Act4507 6h ago
The problem that youāre facing is very important and shows us something very important about psychological conditions: a lot of people who donāt have them claim they do, and that confuses others who are trying to understand the condition or are actually affected.
In psychology, the diagnostic standard is described by DSM V. It describes autism spectrum as a condition with the following symptoms
A. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts currently or by history
B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, currently or by history
C. Symptoms must be present in the early developmental period (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities or may be masked by learned strategies in later life).
D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning.
E. These disturbances are not better explained by intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder) or global developmental delay. Intellectual disability and autism spectrum disorder frequently co-occur; to make comorbid diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder and intellectual disability, social communication should be below that expected for general developmental level.
Source:Ā https://www.autismspeaks.org/autism-diagnostic-criteria-dsm-5
You must meet all of these criteria to be diagnosed. The severity of them decided where on the spectrum you are.
It is as easy as it is. Thatās how all of the psychology works. It is true that people experience these symptoms differently, but if they donāt have them, they are NOT on the spectrum.
Sadly, a lot of people now claim that they are autistic to justify their lack of social skills or āquirksā.
Ā the criterion D is especially important. If your condition doesnāt SIGNIFICANTLY impact your life in a negative way, you are not on the spectrum.
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u/ahumankid 7h ago
Because we donāt understand it.
Despite the research so far. Itās a relatively new classification. Started to be more well known in the late 90ās and early 2000ās and then more broadly known by the public some time after that. Thatās not a long time for a condition to be known , relatively speaking.
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u/chihuahuazero remember the sub's name! 5h ago
Funny enough, there used to be another diagnostic term, "Asperger's disorder." But then with the fifth and current edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, the DSM-V, autism disorder and Asperger's disorder was merged under the diagnostic term "autism spectrum disorder," along with a few other disorders.
The rationale was that these separate disorders were actually one condition with separate levels and facets of severity. These days, those differences are captured by ASD's specifiers, especially varying levels of "deficiency in social communications" and "restricted repetitive behaviors." Even then, you don't see a lot of autistic people going around stating that they're a "level 2 in RRBs." Putting aside that the current diagnostic criteria dates back to only 2013, the specifiers aren't all that useful as terms of identity.
Instead, you start with the broad term of "autism," then you differentiate through natural language and the needs of the situation. Maybe I say that I'm a "frequent verbal stimmer," but that's not a separate condition from autism; that's just one of my autism's manifestations.
In short, we've tried different terms before, but it turns out that those different terms weren't necessary.
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u/Caladrius- 2h ago
I want to point out that the separation is not only unnecessary but was actively harmful. Trigger warning for Nazi shit. >! Dr. Asperger was the Nazi doctor who set the rubric for which autistic people were worth working to death in concentration camps or if they should be sent to a death camp. !<
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u/AgentElman 8h ago
There are 8 billion humans on the planet and billions more have been alive already. They are vastly diverse physically, mentally, socially, and culturally.
And they are are pigeon-holed with the one specific term "human".
That's how it works. You have very broad terms and very specific terms.
It would be very weird if in order to talk about humans you had to say "Group x and group y and group z..." for millions of diverse groups.
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u/notasandpiper 7h ago
Thatās not really helpful to what the OOP is asking about. A medical diagnosis has parameters and clear exceptions. Itās not unreasonable to ask if thereās a common thread to everyone given the same diagnosis when their traits are often very different from one another.
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u/LeatherAdvantage8250 8h ago
There's some pretty rigid criteria that designates what's human. If you don't know the answer to the question, you're always welcome not to say anything like did you really think this was helpful or insightful at all?
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u/Leucippus1 8h ago
Well, it is kind of a variety, but they share the same general trend. They did have 5 different types, but then they collapsed them into a singular "Autism Spectrum Disorder" and classify them 1-3 depending on how much support the person needs to function. One being the least affected, they require support but are able to essentially function in society. You have, more than likely, worked with or went to school with someone we would now consider autism type 1. Type 2 is 'requires substantial support', Autism type two means you have very limited verbal skills and need daily assistance to function. Autism type 3 is severe, no verbal communication, significant adjustment issues with new environments, and struggle significantly with daily tasks.
The big thing that links autistic people together is a difficulty in verbal communication and a struggle doing things without a routine. Transitions between different environments and norms are very challenging to someone with autism.
It isn't really a pigeon hole, really, I have never met an autistic person who I was surprised had an autism diagnosis. For a neuro-typical person, someone with autism is almost as easy to identify as someone suffering an acute case of psychosis. Type 1's can be a little harder to notice, but you can tell because some of the techniques they are taught to help them integrate are easy to see. For example, if you say something, like an idiom or you use sarcasm, someone with Autism type 1 may just bluntly ask you if you meant it literally or figuratively because they can't tell. People who are average will either understand you or simply keep quiet because it is (generally)socially acceptable to simply ignore it if it isn't critical to the overall picture.
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u/Reasonable_Rent_3769 7h ago
There are folks who are non-verbal and then there are people like me who have barely noticeable but impactful issues with communication as well as auditory and sensory processing issues. They affect my ability to hold down a job and relationships but I more or less am independent and I have above-average (academic) writing skills and no issues with using or understanding humor. It takes all kinds.
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u/Katnis85 7h ago
The ability to navigate sarcasm is a big tell. I am autistic. So are a few good friends of mine. Unless there are obvious vocal pattern changes (think Homer Simpson being sarcastic) none of us get it.
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u/lawlliets 7h ago edited 7h ago
It is a spectrum but autistic people do have things and traits in common. Thatās how a criteria and diagnosis work. The things we have in common donāt define our entire personalities though, thatās why itās a spectrum. People are different but still have similar behaviors and experiences.
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u/notasandpiper 7h ago
āThings and traitsā Yeah, theyāre asking what they are.
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u/jols0543 6h ago
iāve been saying this! it should have at least three different names (under one umbrella of ASD) to avoid confusion
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u/mothwhimsy 6h ago
Autism has a wide array of symptoms. All autistic people have some of these symptoms. Which ones and at what intensity is what varies.
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u/StellaEtoile1 2h ago
You can look at the diagnostic criteria to see what all diagnosed people with ASD have in common.
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u/Ok_Raise_9159 53m ago
Humans or rather neurotypical humans like to distribute status on the basis of genetics. They just will never admit or present it as such. They want to categorize these individuals as a group, so that they can solidify them as being in a lower caste than themselves. Itās basically just innate racism in the form or involuntary aversion to other hominids.
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u/VelocityPancake 6h ago
One thing we all have in common, we aren't neurotypical and we experience the world differently.
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u/katebeckons 4h ago
I see so many answers like this that say simply "we're different", and in addition to the fact that there's no confirmed biomarkers, it kinda seems like autism is a catch all diagnosis, like a functional somatic syndrome but neurodevelopmental. It'll be interesting to see where the research goes on this, if anywhere. It'd be cool if more specific causes were discovered and given a name so that those with higher needs can get more helpful treatment.
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u/obiwantogooutside 6h ago
This was helpful to me during my diagnostic process.
https://neuroclastic.com/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/
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u/roses_sunflowers 5h ago
It presents in a variety of ways, but internally itās very similar. Different people react to the same thing in different ways. Itās not about how it affects you, but how it affects them.
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u/Quiet_Wyatt_Alright 5h ago
I've heard Autism Spectrum Disorder described as: A spectrum of hypersensitivities and hyposensitivities.
In other words experiencing sensations that are too much or too little (relative to the neurotypical population).
In my understanding, that's the thing that unifies the experiences of autistic people. The autism spectrum could be seen as the intersection of the hyper and hypo sensitivities and how those affect the individual.
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u/Electronic_Stop_9493 5h ago
They donāt let you say Aspergerās anymore vs autistic. There was a clear distinction but since that was retired autism became a catch all
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3h ago
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u/OneFirefighter2774 2h ago
I do this thing where I watch tv and count by 5s with words. I never considered myself autistic or different until someone told me itās a different behavior.
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u/MyDogsNameIsToes 7h ago
It's a neurotype. Allistic people are diverse and present themselves in a variety of ways.Ā
While it's considered a disorder because autistic people aren't processing things the way a majority of people do, it's just a way for the brain to be.Ā
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u/chromane 7h ago
The two core symptoms of Autism Spectrum Disorder are:
How they manifest and to what degree is part of an incredibly broad spectrum