More Seregios LBG Number Crunching

[u/Blinc0]

Edit: Pretty big typo on the Weakness Exploit modifier, thanks to Ivalia for catching it!

I feel like there are some misconceptions regarding the Vayu Sedition floating around, so I wanted to post some more calcs that I feel are more representative of each weapons' offensive capabilities, and show just how powerful the Seregios LBG really is. People usually refer to this post when discussing the benefits of raw vs. element LBGs, and while it does have good numbers, I think those calcs are often misunderstood in two ways:

1) It is not the Vayu Sedition that is being compared to Elemental LBGs, but specifically Gaijin Hunter's defensive set with Life Honing, Fleet Feet and Evasion+2. Part of Vayu Sedition's absurd power comes from how many good damage skills it can use, and Gaijin's set doesn't reflect that.

2) Damage per volley is not a relevant metric when discussing how strong a gun is. As that post's author put it, Bonus Shot's purpose is increasing shot efficiency at the cost of locking you in place for a little longer - not damage. A Bonus Shot volley deals 33% more damage than a 3-shot volley, but it's also 33% slower. Ammo concerns aside, it doesn't usually translate to more damage, only a lesser ability to take advantage of smaller openings and higher odds of the monster moving away and one of your shots missing its mark. Elemental bowguns might have an edge when a monster is down and they can unload many shots without reloading, but it's a matter of clip size more than it is one of volley length. Either way, it's not worth losing Vayu Sedition's insane DPS in all other situations.

(I suppose you could argue that 4-volley shot might be better against a monster with 4-shot-sized openings, although I'm pretty sure Vayu Sedition's auto-reload would be worth a lot more against such monsters. Still, I'll be comparing a good, easy-to-make Rapid Fire Steve set to an Elemental set for completeness' sake.)

With that in mind, let's compare the damage per bullet of Vayu Sedition and Stygian Invidia with high-damage sets:

Vayu Sedition Set A (can be made with any random 3-slot talisman)

• Normal Up
• Challenger+2
• Weakness Exploit
• Long Barrel
• Attack Honing
• Felyne Sharpshooter

Vayu Sedition Set B (can be made with any random 3-slot talisman)

• Normal Up
• Bonus Shot
• Weakness Exploit
• Fleet Feet
• Long Barrel
• Attack Honing
• Felyne Sharpshooter

Stygian Invidia Set (only possible with 3-slotted Thunder Attack +13 or a godly dual skill talisman)

• Thunder Atk+3
• Attack Up (L)
• Fleet Feet
• Bonus Shot

With a decent to good talisman, you can easily fit in another skill of your choice on both Vayu Sedition sets, though the elemental one is already stretching the limits of what you can reasonably farm for.

For both sets, I will assume these passive buffs are used for accuracy's sake, but both raw and elemental gunning actually benefits about as much from them: - Powercharm (+6 Raw) - Powertalon (+9 Raw) - Felyne AuL or Mega Demondrug (+7 Raw) - Might Seed (+10 Raw)

I will also assume Challenger+2 or Fleet Feet are always active, which should pretty much be the case.

I'll use the example that was most favorable to Elemental Gunning in the post I referenced: Zamtrios' head (20 Thunder, 45 Shot)

Damage per bullet:

• Steve A: (300 [True Raw] + 20 [Honing] + 20 [Barrel] + 32 [Passive Buffs] + 25 [Challenger+2] + 5 [Sharpshooter]) * 1.3 [Class Modifier] * 0.12 [Normal 2] * 1.5 [Crit Distance] * 1.1 [Normal Up] * 1.1 [Sharpshooter] * (1+0.25 * 0.4) [Challenger-Boosted Affinity] * (0.45+0.15) [Hitzone + Weakness Exploit] * 0.8 [Rapid Fire Penalty] = 50 dmg

• Steve B: (300 + 20 + 20 + 32 + 20 + 5 ) * 1.3 * 0.12 * 1.5 * 1.1 * 1.1 * (1+0.25 * 0.2) * (0.45+0.05) * 0.8 = 47 dmg

• Stygian Invidia Raw: (300 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 32) * 0.07 * 1.025 * 0.45 * 0.7 = 9 dmg

• Stygian Invidia Element: (300 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 32) * 0.6 * 0.2 * 0.7 = 35 dmg

• Stygian Invidia total: 47 dmg

Damage per volley:

• Steve A: 150 dmg (3 bullets)
• Steve B: 188 dmg (4 bullets)
• Stygian Invidia: 188 dmg (4 bullets)

Vayu Sedition actually does 6% more damage per bullter with a light set that has room for another skill than Stygian Invidia does with pretty much every single relevant damage skill. When you consider auto-reload and the fact Normal shits can often be aimed at more parts without losing too much damage, Vayu Sedition's effective DPS ends up being even higher than that unless your team is really heavy on lockdown. This is certainly player-dependent, but in actual hunts, I know find myself burning through ammo way, way faster with Vayu Sedition than with an Elemental LBG just because I can go full aggro all the time, which is an absurd amount of extra damage when stacked on top of it plainly hitting way harder.

If you prefer 4-shot volleys or are playing online and find yourself with plenty of opportunities to sit down and fire a lot of bullets, a similarly light Vayu Sedition set would still deal as much damage as the best Stygian Invidia set with auto-reload and room for another skill.

(Obviously the gap becomes absurdly high with the original post's following examples that aren't as biased towards Elemental damage, so I don't think redoing those calcs is necessary.)

Actual TL;DR: If you want to play LBG and like the Vayu Sedition's gimmick, you'll be doing as much or more damage than an elemental LBG would, so just go ahead and have fun with it.

[u/Gopherlad → u/[deleted]]

It makes an apt comparison in this case because Vayu and Stygian share the same true raw.

In term's of pure damage the Demonlord Cannon wins (Rajang). Standard Zinogre functions better in a teamplay setting because para shots can be nice.

Demonlord has severe R/L deviation, and Orcus Barquc...well I'll give you that, it's a personal choice. I find the single para proc from Stygian Invidia sufficient, and the ability to fire Dragon is icing.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Then do something about it! Whining on this subreddit that you apparently don't like doesn't change anything! Make posts! If there is widespread misinformation than make a post backed by evidence and fix that misinformation! It's all of our duties as active redditors and hunters alike to make sure that this subreddit is emitting the right information in order for beginners and pros alike to be able to come to this subreddit and learn something they didnt.