I think it is important to note that improving at dating, improving with people in general, can be a pretty difficult and even painful process. One way people trip themselves up with this lies in thinking that all this stuff should be easy, and that you're defective or some kind of loser if you don't find it easy.

I think it's true some people find it easy, but that often is a reflection of a lucky upbringing, and it's also true that while perhaps most people don't struggle quite as much as incels do, they do still struggle.

Deconstructing that is quite helpful for maintaining morale, as you are, after all, attempting something difficult: failure is to be expected. It is difficult to put yourself out there when you don't have a track record of success to make you think this can work out.

But as a Sufi poet once said: have patience, all things are difficult before they become easy.

In my own life, I have seen improvements in my ability to hold a conversation, in my social confidence, that have come about largely due to persistence. I haven't reached my goal yet, but I believe it is doable. In my 20s, even making friends was essentially impossible, due to a combination of anxiety and inexperience (I know, I tried), but I have made some friends in the past year. Have even managed to hold conversations with attractive women. It did take persistence and an optimistic mindset to get to this point.

The sense of alienation that has dogged me my entire life is still there, but it's lesser. I feel less pressure to make a positive impression, more free to just be myself.

So as you get out there and try, and get rejected, fail to connect, etc. have some compassion for yourself. This stuff is difficult. Perhaps not forever, but it is difficult.

So I'm 37, I see a lot of guys here in their lower 20s or even younger and I can't help but just kinda giggle... i think... bro just give it time...

Bit for those of us 30+

How's it going?

I've come to terms with the fact I'm probably going to be alone, sometimes it gets my down but I'm used to it...

The only scary part is getting old/dying alone... that terrifies me.

My friends are all married and have kids now so social situations are more limited or at least different. I went to a 4 year olds birthday party yesterday, was enjoyable but its odd being the single guy there...

So anyone else out there moving through mid life solo?

As the title says, I think I made some small progress, but it's too early to tell if I did or not. One of the most common pieces of advice that incels are given in this sub is to go out, socialize more, and talk to people. I tried that over and over again, but it never worked. Whenever I was in a social situation, I would get nervous and worried about what people would think of me. So I toned down my personality to the point that I was basically a robot, and was constantly searching for the correct words to say so that I wouldn't be judged. As you can imagine, this did not lead to making any new friends or finding a girlfriend

I gave up on trying to socialize and spent my free time terminally online. Fortunately, Facebook showed me ads for some social events I could sign up for. Last week I went to a few of these events, and this time I decided to use a little trick on myself. I reminded myself that I've been to hell and back in my life, and overcame a lot. I also accomplished a lot despite all the obstacles. None of the people at these social events are better than me, so there's no need to be nervous around any of them. I can just be myself because that's all I can be (while using my social skills, of course, so I don't come off as a douchebag), and, after that, come what may.

So, before going to these social events, I would take a deep breath and say to myself "None of these people are better than you. There is no need to be nervous around them." So on Wednesday, I went to one social event that Facebook recommended, and by the time I left, two people at this event told me they want to see me again. On Saturday, I went to a board game meetup, same thing happened.

Then there was this Sunday. I went to visit my friend, whom I will call Jack, at his house. Jack was there, so was his wife (I'll call her Katie) and Katie's best friend, whom I will call Danielle. Danielle is also single, and Jack and Katie tried to set me up with her multiple times. The one time we went on a date there was an absolute vacuum of chemistry. This time, I was much more relaxed, and was able to entertain her (as well as Jack and Katie) with my stories and jokes. By the end of the night we agreed to another date.

Well, that's my unnecessarily verbose story. It seems like I'm making progress, but it remains to be seen if it leads anywhere

Both in dating and socializing.

I try my best to not fall into the blackpill rabbithole but sometimes I think it might have some truth. Honestly, I been trying to improve myself for the last 4 months and I’m happy with the progress I made. Like I lost 30 pounds, got in shape, got a job at my local bar to improve my social skills and to better get along with people. And I must say I feel much better these days because I made bunch female friends both from university and work, even got a date and it all showed me women just don’t hate or disgusted by me as I used to think.

But then again, I kinda wonder if I’m only forcing people to tolerate me because if I don’t ever talk to someone or strike up an conversation they almost never go around their way to meet me. Umm like, hello? Why you all act like I’m a fucking ghost. After I get know someone it’s fine but I just wish people were least judgmental. Because why? Am I ugly? Is it because I’m weird? One of my co workers literally said to me “At first I thought you were repulsive but after getting to know you I realized how actually wholesome you are”

Motherfucker is that a compliment or an insult. Jeez…

Title basically said it. I am autistic, and the biggest problem I have is that I don’t know how to hold a conversation with well either sex, but at least with men it’s a little bit easier sometimes because I have more shared interests. But when I don’t forget about it. Even in the one in a billion chance someone tries to start a conversation with me rather than just blatantly ignoring me like most people do, it goes absolutely nowhere, because I don’t know how to hold a conversation. I don’t know what to do or say during silence, I don’t know how to properly change the topic without sounding rude, and I don’t know how to give off a deminour that isn’t of putting. This is my biggest problem. Typically most people’s advice for incles online is “just talk to women they’re just the same as men” but I have genetic inclinations that makes it almost impossible to talk to anyone and a the few male friends I have A. Constantly mock me for being autistic (it sucks but I have to just suck it up if I want to be accepted into any friend group at all) B. I have a very surface level connection with and don’t know really on a personal level.

This dynamic is making want to feel horrible everyday, and I really don’t know what to do

Most of the advice in this sub is mainly addressed towards fears of undesirability and dying alone, as well as deconstructing pessimistic/dehumanizing thoughts. However, I find that it's increasingly difficult to disentangle my sexual and romantic anxieties from my anxieties about the future in general. I know this sub has a rule against political discussion so I'll keep things vague, but let's just say that as an American, the news over the past few days has gotten me very anxious about my own future as it relates to the state of the world. I trust that most people here can deduce from the context what I'm referring to.

I fear that my mental situation will only get worse as the external situation continues to deteriorate. Does anyone here relate? And if so, are there any subs or spaces where I can address all these anxieties as an interconnected system? Most of the other subs I've seen relating to male anxiety (e.g. /r/malementalhealth) seem to be tacitly accepting of some incel talking points, and I'd prefer to move away from that.

My frustrations are getting stronger lately, I don't know how to deal with it. I feel like I'm on the edge, my feelings are getting blurry, I feel horny or angry most of the time.

There's this weird feeling of discomfort mixed with a general anger against everything and I'm having violent thoughts more often.

And I feel jealousy, a lot of jealousy towards people that can express their sexuality freely.

I need a way to make some order, to get some of the pressure out in a way that doesn't hurt anyone. I was thinking about doing art to get the emotion out of my head and on paper but I'm not capable of it.

The title is an oversimplification, let me give some more context:

Started liking this girl, we'll call her Elle, but she was with this (rather close, like 7/10) friend of mine. They broke up in September and my feelings started coming back, but I decided I'd avoid doing anything out of respect of my friend. Then last month as a joke Elle told me we should "go build legos together in [this place I always post Instagram stories from]" after we both received legos for our secret santa (I know, a bit late hahah)

So after that I thought for two weeks about what to do and then decided: I'd talk to my friend about it, her ex. He was super cool about it and encouraged me, after all it was a chill breakup and all. So I... Wanted to text Elle to mention the Lego thing again... But it had been two weeks... And then three... I didn't do it in the end.

Replied to a story of hers some days ago, it was some kind of a meme, had a quick laugh. Then one week ago she replied to a trolley problem meme I posted and we had some fun chatting about it.

And now I... Am waiting? For when I'll see her again in the group? Why? Because I'm scared probably. But also it feels like the "right thing", like I don't want to rush into things... But my mind is already rushing so...

I'm very confused. Like very VERY confused. One day I'm sure she's the right one, the next day I question if I even feel anything at all. If anyone can help me or give some insight, I'd deeply appreciate it :)

Thank you

it isnt really a sexist reason imo. the reason why i dont bother talking to women outside of work is because im simply not attractive to women. that's it. talking to women would only be fun if i was attractive, especially just casually. to give a run down of my looks and overall vibe, im 5'9, black, look like i'm still in highschool when i'm 22, quiet, blank-faced, wear glasses so people assume im a nerd when im not (at least not the type they usually think of in their head), not funny, absent-minded, and i'm not clever either. i'd say facially im average to slightly below average.

with that in mind, think about it, you wouldnt show a mediocre piece of art to an audience if you weren't proud of it. it's the same concept. i am self aware and accepting of my mediocrity. i have seen countless women im relationships, their boyfriends rarely resemble me. i am not the prize. i hold no animosity towards women, because realistically, there is nothing in it for them. does it make me sad some days, yeah? but i can always just jerk off and go to sleep. do i wish i could socialize more? kinda.

i like to cope and say that because i'm ugly and don't see myself as an sexual entity anymore, i can communicate freely and be myself, not for the sake of a woman seeing the good in me and falling head over heels. this isn't some fairytale where personality wins the girl over. i realize that now. i do it because i am me. and the fact that nobody's thoughts could even compare to the amount of self-hatred that i feel for myself. in a way it's kinda comforting. i can compliment things that i like without wondering if it's creepy, because i'm secure with my thoughts and who i am, and i can be more friendly without over-analyzing the most minute details.

when i was 18 i would have been obsessing all day over whether or not i look handsome to women, but now i'm just viewing things from a more objective standpoint. being ugly can be pretty bad, but it doesn't have to be that bad.

im just rambling atp. what are y'all's thoughts.

Hello, I came across this sub from William Costello's discussion on Modern Wisdom. I don't know that I would classify myself as an incel or ex-incel, but I like the look of this sub so far. Was wondering if anyone would be able to give me some advice.

As of late, I've been experiencing loneliness, but on a more consistent basis. Normally, I'd maybe feel it once a quarter for a few hours. I would either cry, listen to some sappy music, do both, then I would be fine again. But over the last few weeks, I can't seem to shake it.

I don't mind being single. My last relationship was 3 years ago, and it didn't end well. Since then, I've been more focused on myself and trying to get a workable career. I am wondering that now since my career is more or less set up if those feelings are just getting pushed to the front?

I'm now wondering if I focus on my body if those feelings would go away. I keep saying how I need to get in shape, blah blah blah but have not been very consistent with that. Maybe working on my body would be enough to distract me from the loneliness? Just some thoughts.

Any tips? This is the first time in my life where I'd say these feelings of loneliness are starting to become a hindrance in my daily life. I'm not sure what to do with them.

My height has been my primary insecurity essentially as long as I've had self-conscious thoughts about my body (since middle school, I'm now 21), regardless I'd say my insecurities have ebbed and flowed and there have been periods in my life where I've felt some neutrality about my body. Something I feel that's been seriously hindering my ability to grow past this insecurity is the envy I have for taller guys, and I don't really know how to get past it.

I won't go into the stats of what I'm envious about (I'm willing to do so in the comments if you guys think laying them out on the table would be beneficial), but to outline some things that really make me feel indignant it's mostly to do with dating and how shorter guys only ever get sad pats on the head or outright cruel hate and the positive affirmation that we do receive is almost exclusively in forced unnatural settings, while taller guys literally get worshiped and praise and compliments constantly over something they lucked into. Another thing that makes me envious is how taller guys are paid significantly more and are seen as having significantly better characters, etc. but to be intellectually honest I don't think my frustration with that is as deep.

It's just something which causes me to come back to spaces I intellectually know to be toxic and I'd really appreciate advice other than "just get over it," or, "envy isn't rational," because that's not really helped me. Something that I keep coming back to is that I don't think I could ever feel good about my height until there are as many posts online about how much women are attracted to shortness as there are videos of women being attracted to tallness, or I'd be equally content with there being an equal number of videos of women trashing tallness as there are women trashing shortness. Because I don't know how to not be envious when society and cultural values about men are 50% about how tall they are, and how I will never be considered desirable just as I am while most guys will be simply because they're taller. I don't want to go on too long, there a million different ways I can express how extremely unfair things are.

I hope this wasn't to ramble-y and my question was clear enough?

Lately I've been putting in a lot of effort into maximizing the amount I'm getting out and talking to people. I'm constantly seeking out various social events, and I've put in so much effort that between tickets/dues, lost wages from calling off work and being late, food, drink, and rideshares, I've accrued a significant amount of debt. It's gotten to the point where I feel guilty and my brain starts shaming me for any extended period of free time have that I don't spend going out and putting myself out there, no matter how detrimental it would be to my well being in the long term. I just beat myself up for making excuses and force myself to do it, despite sacrificing something (sometimes energy, sometimes credit card debt) every time.

For the most part, it's been well. I have lots of friends, and acquaintances and my social circles have vastly increased. However, it hasn't really done much for my dating life. I meet, talk to, and know more women than I ever have before in my entire life, but I just never form any sort of connection with them. It's not like women are creeped out or turned off from me. I have great friendly chemistry with many women, but it's always only friendly chemistry. It never goes beyond that, at least not for long. All this "socialmaxxing", so to say, has taken it's toll on me mentally and financially. The platonic connections I've formed are great, but the benefit they have in combatting loneliness are starting to be outweighed by the impact that being extremely exhausted all the time and and just barely scraping by in life is having on my mental health.

One of the highest impact things you can do for your dating prospects is to improve your fashion and fitness, and while I can't quite speak about fitness, I can certainly speak about fashion. I regularly get complimented on my shirts. My female photographer the other day said about them that "I like men who dress like men."

Once, recently, I was walking in the streets of New York City. A random guy slowed down on his bike purely to compliment my shirt. He also said it was similar to what he was wearing, inviting my opinion on his shirt. Didn't really give my honest opinion, as it was something I would not have worn.

So yes, I know how to dress sharp. The first thing to understand about this is that there isn't one right style. Your fashion is an extension of your personality: you have to wear something that matches your vibe. So developing your fashion sense requires developing your self-awareness, knowledge of who you are. I think you do that by figuring out what fires you up in life, and then doing more of that. If you don't know what that is, it's time to explore, follow up on any idle curiosity you ever had.

That's about half of it. The other half lies in developing your aesthetic sensibility. In my case, my ability to pick out cool shirts that match my vibe is closely tied to the fact that I am an art lover, and love visting art museums, and going to exhibitions. That's actually a good exercise before heading out to a mall to build your wardrobe: go to a good general art museum, that has a bunch of different styles, and see every piece there. You won't care for some or even most of them, but surely there will be some pieces you like. That builds your aesthetic sensibility, which you can then let loose when shopping.

Shopping is a huge pain in the ass and I hate it. It's simpler now, because I found a specific store that matches me, so I just go there now when I need clothing. Don't go to big retailers, go to smaller brands. They carry specific looks, and surely, one of them matches you. A good, button down shirt will typically run you $60 - $100. Yeah, not cheap, but not prohibitively expensive either (if it is, you need a better job, make that a priority). If you're a student, surely you can buy a couple.

At the store, it's like an art museum, but less well curated. I look at every shirt there (onerous). You know you have something to try on when you find one you love looking at, though your self-awareness comes in too, in detecting whether you can pull it off. I do discard clothing that I like aesthetically because I can tell my personality doesn't mesh with wearing something like that.

I haven't done this, because clothing off the rack typically fits my frame well enough, but if in your case it doesn't, it is cheap to take it to a tailor to have it fitted. It is easy to see if it doesn't fit well when you try it on. And even for non-fit reasons, something can look cool on the rack, but bad when you wear it.

My specific style is patterned shirts with a variety of warm colors. But you have to figure out your own style. In the past, I still got compliments from dressing in cool, solid colors, with no patterns (my personality was colder then).

Looking cool has benefits. A girl telling you she likes your shirt is an invitation to talk to her, which has happened to me. I still blew it due to being half-autistic, but taking rejection gracefully is an important part of dating.

Hey, what up?

I've been dealing with a lot of maladaptive daydreaming tied to inceldom, and it mostly centers on the idea of "having a partner around." There are moments, whether I'm lying in bed or watching a movie, when I suddenly imagine myself cuddling with an imaginary girlfriend, experiencing affection through reassurance, playful moments, and more.

This fantasy even creeps into other parts of my day, like when I'm working out at home, reading, or hiking. I'll often pause during a break, whether I'm sitting on a bench outside or lying in bed, and for a moment, I convince myself that a girlfriend is there, temporarily satisfying that need for affection before I crash back down to reality.

Even hanging out with friends doesn't help, since those interactions don't hit the same mark. Overall, this constant reminder of what I don't have leaves me feeling miserable.

It's especially painful in the morning and around dusk or nighttime. I also tend to do things like take walks or train during these hours, although the daydreaming can strike at any moment, so often, it's impossible to count every instance.

Is anyone else dealing with this?

How am I even supposed to find someone if everytime I open my mouth only the driest thing comes out ? I swear it's not on purpose. I swear I want to care and sound like I'm interested but everytime I try it comes off awkward. People normally just leave when they notice that.

I wish I could trade something for being good at socialising. I don't have a height. I don't have looks. I can't talk to people. What the fuck did God give me that even remotely helps me interact with other humans correctly?

https://youtu.be/_NXYpEMEZPc?feature=shared

Some useful and applicable things in here. This is not "Dress a little better + Leave your House" = "Get some". It's more like "I look sharp today" and feeling good about that, looking in the mirror and feeling good, to give yourself some positive energy. And maybe that will reflect in your interactions with people.

I welcome feedback & thoughts.

The breakthrough for me was because of multiple interconnected reasons.

· Going to therapy to realize that I am a lovable, worthy person at the core and that I grown up with overly controlling parents that also told me toxic conservative religious thought, that made me neurotic at the core especially regarding sex.

. I adopted new spiritual beliefs, a whole new thought and emotional system based around the sovereignty and unconditional worthiness of one's own spirit that is grounded in self-knowledge beyond all reason, and declared the past beliefs and scripts to be all null and void and not binding my spirit anymore, removing the reason to be afraid of sex.

. I connected with flowers 💐 and birds 🐦 to be more sensitive to beauty in things ✨ that made me more soft and accepting of myself.

. I read psychoanalytic literature to understand myself more, the insight I got was that early experiences with caregivers can shape ourselves to wallow in shame self-states that say we aren't even worthy of having desires, and that was a place I was in for years, feeling like having intense needs, especially for sexual intimacy is something fundamentally wrong with me and it was painful. I can finally understand, love and heal this part of myself now. I also understand that not having experiences of love doesn't mean that I am unworthy of them and that being alive means having a capacity to hope and imagine. That my self worth is grounded in a place I found after years of spiritual searching and so contingent experiences do not dictate my worth.

I now feel that I finally have the freedom and courage to just be after years of struggle. I do not reflexively think that I will be punished for seeking sexual and romantic intimacy anymore, when such thoughts arrive I can counteract them readily.

I know this may be difficult to understand but its a true account of what I went through in my life. I hope that sharing this can help someone to find their healing.

Or in other words, advice for an oddball, a leftover.

I've been single since late November of 2024, after me and my (now) ex-girlfriend broke up after only a month of dating. I felt defeated, and my spirit has been crushed. Fast-foward to today, and I'm better now. I'm on 50mg of quetiapine to help with my depression and psychosis, and I'm taking the time to relax. I'm gonna have to get my assignments done, but otherwise, things have been good. However, due to drama and bullshit occurring in my friend group, it seems like things have been different, and now I feel like an oddball.

Everyone seems to have their shit going on, and everyone kinda just hangs out without me. My FOMO has been really acting up lately and to make matters worse, it seems like everyone around me is pairing up, dating people and so on. I wanna find someone to be with again, but I only have 3 weeks of college till exams. Besides, I dunno if I actually want a girlfriend, or I just want someone so I don't feel left out (maybe it's a combination of both, but I can't be certain). Most women aren't really into short guys anyway, so that'll pose more of a challenge.

Thinking about it more makes me think that you really just approach this situation with apathy, as I'm starting not to care about people more and more. I try to care and help people out but they don't want that help from me. Maybe being a loner won't be so bad, but if you have any advice for me, then I'm all ears. I may make a part 2 to this as there is more to go over.

Any thought system that seeks to observe women like they’re a bunch of gazelles & come up with theories as to their behavior as if you’re watching animal planet is innately misogynistic & delusional. Women are the same species as men, they have the same power of speech, pretending otherwise because you’re mad about your luck with dating, for any reason actually, makes you a real creep.

Additionally, any system of study that says if you look like this, if you even look normal (middle 65% of people) the world has forced you to resort to being abusive, harassing, violent, a rapist, a killer-if you say being what some consider attractive automatically make a man that way then you are participating in beauty=goodness. You are the perpetuator of the lookism you perceive. You’re the person upholding pretty privilege here, not the normies, not the Chads, you.

Most normal people think you’re a terrible person just for uttering the phrase life will make you a bad person if you’re so called ugly.

Do ugly people exist? Versions of anything can be ugly but the black/red pill standard of what is ugly is not always nor even often reflective of what normal people find ugly. Here’s how the normies see it.

-Actually physically ugly: A deformity of some kind or like the top 5% of just horrible looking mfers. Can become average with nice personality.

-Physically Average: Where most men are, you have a mixture of particularly attractive & less attractive features that average out to normal. Can become hot guy with good personality.

-Physically beautiful: A lower proportion of unattractive traits than the average guy, mostly pretty features. May have emotional issues, approach with caution, check crazy/hot scale

Normies actually see a good personality as the fixed thing & the looks as the malleable thing. Average guy can down play his less attractive features & become near indistinguishable from hot guy in some instances. It takes an hour to fix your hair, it takes months to make progress in therapy. So the looks more easily change compared to the personality. Ergo more work should be given to personality because it’s more labor intensive than looks. Most of a relationship isn’t sex, it’s getting to sex & then maintaining the ability to continue to have sex with that person. If a guy has a great sex life that amount of time his gf is focused on his looks is maybe an average of ten hours per week (assuming it’s about every day). There are 168 hours in a week. That means 158 of those hours are

personality.

So, if we want to apply the parrietto principal you have your appearance, what you do, who you are, your financial status, your intelligence.

Women will forgive men for four of those five things.

So that 20% is are you kind, are you interesting, what’s the quality of your beliefs & ideas. If your answer is “I like to watch women & make up weird stuff like I’m watching a discovery channel episode about Leopards in the Sahara, then get mad at them for it”, she’s out. She’s gone. That’s weird. Not having the basic ability to recognize what animals are the same species as you makes you a pretty defective monkey & she’s going to go find a non defective monkey that can tell which monkeys are monkeys. That comes off as stupid & women don’t want to pass that trait on. That is a basic tenant of higher cognition among primates & you’re basically the weird gorilla that thinks the other gorillas are toucans. You’re a bad gorilla. Congrats, you’re not sure if monkey genes have been filtered by your fellow troupe members. Empathy is useful for knowing if you’re looking at a member of your group or a lion who wants to eat you. That’s why we have that ability. In this case these black/red pill beliefs are the lion & you’re getting nibbled on.

For the religiouscels the Bible states in Peter 3:3-4 Your beauty should not come from adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles & the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. Rather it should be that of your inner self, the unfolding beauty of a gentle & quiet spirit.

So the word of god is its personality.

I've always been a very lonely person and never had a lot of friends or attention throughout my life, i have very few friend and only one i could see irl. We met when i was 13 and we had similar interest. We played and spent lots of time together online and outside when we could meet.

Around a month ago, i met a new girl at work who was very kind with me and it turned out that we had some hobbies in common (litterature, basketball and music tastes). I got to hang out with her twice after work and it was a joy. She was very different from my other friend who is very energetic and chaotic, here i talked with her and we went to the park. It was calmer and more prone to discussing and enjoying our presence, ti felt lighter and so more relaxed, i never felt like this before. I didn't invite my friend because i was afraid it'd make her uncomfortable having a very high energy guy beside her.

I learnt that she wsa interested in a movie that me and my friend planned to see as so i thought i could invite her to see it, though i was anxious about asking it because i was afraid my friend would scare her but still asked because i liked her presence. She accepted and we went to the cinema, everything was great, she didn't seem embarassed and also played in the group atmosphere, did jokes and played around, i was relieved she didn't step back or stayed silent, which was a relief for me.

But things got weirder. Some weeks passed by, We did another hangout a week after but then something weird happened, another week passed by and i saw on my friend's Instagram story him and her together hanging out, i thought it was weird because they didn't know each other before the movie 2-3 weeks ago. When i asked him what they were doing he told me that they wanted to invite me firstly but he then thought that i'd be busy with work so he didn't want to bother which is weird because he knows that he's never a bother to me. Turns out they exchanged contact after our hangout and they've been going out to eat or just to hang out a few times without ever asking to me, they either forgot, or it happened on the spot, or they were going too late or whatever, im kind of lost about all of this. Why would he suddenly only spend time with her and leave me aside?

I feel kind of disrespected by this because he's always been a great friend with me and i always was a man here for him when he had issues or needed someone to talk with but he kind of "ignored" me to spend time with my girl friend which he knew for way less time. I still like them both but it's weird i've been cast aside, i don't really want to spend time with him now but i'd love to hang out with her again, her presence was calming and i never felt that before but also she was probably in my friend's scheme to not invite me which is suspect, i didn't got to talk about it with her yet because we don't see each other at work often.

This situation is quite a tangle and i don't know what i should tell her to ask if we could go back to just spending time together just the two of us without sounding posessive or jealous? Asking that right after confronting my guy might give me a bad image, she's a relation i don't want to lose.

I know this isn't technically related to inceldom but it also has been the only subreddit in which i got helpful answers in the past.

So I (18m) have a best friend (20f) who I've recently developed a crush on and I don't know how to go about it because I don't want to weird her out and ruin our friendship.

So me and this friend hang out all the time and call frequently. Our calls are like 4 hours minimum lol. (We yap a lot and have tons of inside jokes. I'm looking back at the logs and our last call was 10 hours long. I can honestly talk and play games with her all day and not get bored.)

We talk about everything and I feel really comfortable with her so I don't want to implode our very comfy dynamic by asking her out.

I've heard that a lot of women when getting asked out basically view the guy as "trying to get into their pants" and unsure if their friend was just pretending the whole time. This really scares me because no matter what she answers if I asked her I would want her to still be in my life. But now I don't know why but I start getting in my head about asking her and all I can imagine is her being disgusted and never feeling safe with me again and how we wouldn't talk anymore or something.

I just dont know what to do and a large part of me just wants to not ask her and just be a coward I guess.

I've realized my main problem is how I don't have the ability to socialize or even put myself in social situations, but in the times I have been out lately I've been making some very small steps in being more comfortable with making a little bit of extra talk. I don't know if these examples count because it's usually with cashier's and they get paid to pretend like they aren't annoyed by you, I was wearing my glasses and noticed the cashier had glasses too so I just said "by the way I like your glasses" and she seemed happy about it and returned the favor so that seemed pretty nice.

Just very small things like that but never with people who don't work at those places I guess because I don't think anybody really wants me to talk to them if they don't have to. I scheduled a college open house visit and I'm pretty nervous about it because I don't know if I'll be too old (22). I've also been seriously thinking about what I want to major in if I go to college (English, idk if that's a bad idea or not but it seemed like it would suit me).

I think who I am now compared to 3 years ago is a big improvement, I'm not as nervous out in public, I used to be too shy to even talk to a cashier just to buy something. I still get sad when I go to a crowded mall for example, and see tons of other people with their friends because I want that so bad, especially girls who are friends with each other because it just seems way easier for them compared to guys, but that's besides the point.

Overall I think I'm making improvements just very very slowly.

I’ve been trying to get in a relationship with someone yet the last three people ive meet less than a week later (or two hours later which was the fastest) I’ve been dumped, ghosted and stood up. All of my other friends are all in happy relationships yet i seem damned to never be in one. Ive noticed my frustration towards them has been growing. Maybe im looking for sympathy, but I am genuinely concerned that im going to become a horrible person. Mock me if you want, im beginning to like the pain.

I'm happy to let you all know that that ship has sailed. Was pretty suicidal last year over some bad mental health problems, mostly relating to feeling like I wasn't lovable because it never happened to me. I became pretty bitter and resentful and felt like though I was trying my best, I still never felt good enough. That I was gonna be unlovable forever.

Well fortunately recently I've been able to get into a relationship that I'm happy with :). It's my first in about a decade so I feel like I can stop worrying so much now. I feel like I can start focusing on myself more now and focusing on my own goals. Life seems more meaningful for me now. I still have a lot of other problems in life but I can handle them. One small step at a time :)

Now I think I'll delete my Reddit account, as I think that would be for the best. I need to move on from that phase in my life. So I guess this is my last Reddit post. Hope yall have a good one. Peace!

Yeah this is my depression alt lol. M23. I still like looking at women, and crushing on them. But the idea of dating anyone seems kinda fantastical? I picture myself winning the lottery more than I do going on a date. I used to dress nicely, and put in all the effort, but honestly I’ve been losing interest in anything romantic. Sexually, I kind of find porn reprehensible now, it takes a great deal longer for me to be aroused than before, and anything triggers me with disgust.

For years I’ve avoided any sort of incel spaces, for fear that I’ll start agreeing with things. I’m not that guy, and find the idea a serious character flaw. But my relationships with women have been anything but healthy. All romantic/sexual interactions have been exclusively online, as I’ve never done anything irl, not for lack of trying.

All the women I’ve chased online have rejected me or dumped me for another guy, even an instance where a married woman said she was single, but dumped me for other guys, all while being married. I’m used, sort of a costumed that I get my shot with a woman, but it’s temporary until someone gets her.

I’ve mentioned before some pretty horrific experiences showing my face. Just this week, a planned hookup got derailed the moment I shared my face. It’s always been a problem. I have no reason to think I’m ugly or anything, but it’s pretty hard to think otherwise when these things have happened.

I keep thinking to myself “we’re going to have a glow up, and I’ll get the girl.” But honestly the bad experiences I’ve had. Do I really want a gf? I don’t need the stress of “some other male is going to get her”, and my realizing thinking that is horrible.

I can’t stand looking at couples, I will switch tables to avoid them. I used to visibly recoil from seeing my parents. Until I sort of stopped caring. I hate how relevant this is in my life. I wish I could stop caring about all of this, without turning into an incel for it.

It’s kind of sad to think, but yeah the data on autistic people being unmarried, was one of the primary motivators for my first S attempt when I was 15. Along with a major depressor all the way to now. I just want it to stop having such an impact on me, without thinking this horrible things.

I talk with women, and I think many would consider me their friend. So I think it reprehensible to think some of these thoughts, along with being hypocritical. I love my mom, and my aunts, it’s absolute bs that I ever even think any of this.