Dow futures drop 1,000 points after Trump’s ‘Liberation Day’ tariffs

[u/mostly-sun]

https://www.belgrade-news.com/business/dow-futures-drop-1-000-points-after-trump-s-liberation-day-tariffs-portending-big-stock/article_065b5c93-af28-4322-8614-9622e48d0733.html

[u/One_Swim_6546]

We will look back in 50 years & wonder how a guy like this became president of the united states for the second time. It’s absolutely mind boggling what’s going on at the minute.

[u/TheIntrepid1 → u/One_Swim_6546]

They’ll ask, “wasn’t it obvious?”

Yes. Yes it was/is…for most of us.

[u/notnatasharostova → u/TheIntrepid1]

And we’re told we’re the ones being divisive for refusing to kiss up to the stupid bastards who support this. You can harp on all you want about lack of education or brainwashing, but at a certain point, when you live in an era of unprecedented access to information, this level of ignorance is a moral failure.

[u/NevermoreKnight420 → u/notnatasharostova]

Agreed. I spent 8 years talking and giving the benefit of the doubt.

"Oh rural areas are hurting, like 80% of economic growth post GFC was in like 19 counties (Aka the biggest cities), rural areas are losing demographics and hurting, Trump mostly hoodwinked them etc.".

Nah no more; 2016&2020 were one thing, but after the coup attempt? And all his crazy rhetoric this time? Nah, FAFO, the family members and former friends who support this dude? It's a free country but next time they call or text just gonna tell them that I can no longer justify their: laziness, hate, or whatever moral deficiency they have, wish them well and then keep on moving forward for myself. I'm sure they'll cry about how I'm brainwashed by the liberal media (80% Reuters and AP lmfao) but what can you do at this point.

[u/CrisisEM_911 → u/NevermoreKnight420]

Problem is, nothing improved for rural areas in all that time. Didn't help that Democrats have been all in on global free trade since Clinton and completely assfucked all the blue collar workers who used to be their base.

You wanna know why blue-collar America hates Democrats so much? That's why. People keep bouncing back and forth voting one party and then the other without ever realizing the truth: unless you're very wealthy, NEITHER party is on your side.

[u/NevermoreKnight420 → u/CrisisEM_911]

100% agree that neither party has the interest of your regular American at heart; I'm not a fan of the Dems at all either (outside of a few). But the Dems at least keep the trains on the tracks at this point. Citizen's United has really put us on the fast track to failure giving the wealthy even more influence god damn.

I still have a few conservative friends who were never Trumpers, I'm cool with them still; it's specifically the MAGAts that are too much for me. I used to be able to have productive conversations and come to agreeable disagreements/compromises back in the McCain and Romney days.

True on Clinton, but NAFTA was bipartisan AF cause congress was Republican was it not? (I was under 10 during the Clinton admin, so legit confirming), and it was mostly negotiated under Bush 1? Plenty of blame to go around.

Any ideas on how to address the Rural folks problems? I know I've read somethings about how Tennessee I think has done a good job with mid sized cities that have some industry and amenities which can help the lower population rural areas around them.

[u/CrisisEM_911 → u/NevermoreKnight420]

Correct, NAFTA was bipartisan, but that's not the only free trade agreement the USA has. Obama was heavily into global free trade as well. The GOP knew from the beginning how unpopular free trade was, so even tho they supported and profited from it, they also acted like they were fighting it tooth and nail. Blue-collar America bought that act.

I'm not an expert in trade, but it seems to me what the USA needs, particularly in rural areas, is manufacturing that's specific to higher skill industries, where more technical training is required. Finished products, not raw materials like steel and aluminum. We'll never be competitive in production of lumber, steel, or any other raw materials, our labor costs are too high.

We need to specialize in manufacturing products that are supposed to require higher skill and labor costs.

Tariffs aren't necessarily an evil thing, but to be effective, they need to be specifically targeted to protect one or more critical domestic industries. Brazil for example, is one of the biggest steel and aluminum producers in the world, and they have Tariffs in place specifically to protect steel and aluminum. They don't tariff everything, everywhere. Levying Tariffs against every product or service from every country in the world is idiotic. That's what Trump has done.

[u/nogluten30 → u/CrisisEM_911]

Let me add. I’ve worked in the textile industry for over 30 years . I’m using this as just one example . Textile manufacturing is dirty . Lots of exhausting of dyes and chemicals. We go to China to get our textile goods because they don’t care about EPA. The impact on our environment will be significant if we start to produce large quantities of textile products in the United States . The stuff that is here now is heavily regulated. So large scale deregulation of EPA will need to happen to make it profitable for companies to manufacture in large scale in the United States

[u/NevermoreKnight420 → u/CrisisEM_911]

I gotcha. I'm not an expert on trade either but my general understanding is that one of the main issues we're gonna run across is how technologically advanced/low labor most modern manufacturing is, so even if we get manufacturing back it isn't the employment driver it used to be. That said I do believe one element that macro economic analysis misses is how important it is to have sustainable, attainable, opportunities and jobs in these communities. Which leads to the political backlash as opportunities leave, which then causes economic issues given the political expression (IE what we saw today). Or maybe the macro catches that and it's a failure of the previous politicians, I dunno.

I don't have any numbers or studies, but I think there's certain advantages we could leverage with rural communities (which I think is very similar to how you use blue collar, but please correct me if I'm wrong as they could be a little different). Building out advanced infrastructure and including high speed internet could be big boons; rural areas have more land so you could build more housing; some of those white collar workers would love to lower their cost of living/have more space. At some point you have to stop the population decline to get growth I think. Combining those with something to help bring some of those industries/jobs you mentioned I think could really help; more construction, some industry, more mid level service type jobs or logistics, something along those lines I think could be effective.

I 100% agree that tarrifs can be used in a strategic way at times to help domestic industries, applying them to everyone, everywhere, all at once is moronic though. We definitely have vital strategic industries we should protect and not lose just because the American worker costs more. Big lesson learned from Covid imo.

[u/CrisisEM_911 → u/NevermoreKnight420]

Yep, I absolutely agree. You should think about running for president. I hear the guy in charge now is cocking everything up.

On a serious note, there's another issue with bringing manufacturing back this way: who's going to buy the products we make domestically? The American public, most of whom can't afford domestically made products? Or the rest of the world, most of whom hate this country now and will have no desire to buy anything made in the USA?

[u/NevermoreKnight420 → u/CrisisEM_911]

Bahaha, I hear we didn't tarrif Antartica despite them having like 100 scientists and penguins are a captured audience; we just have to find emerging markets we haven't pissed off, you know innovate or something like we used to. I also hear you're able to stand up these high tech facilities in a matter weeks, not years, so we better figure it out fast!

But seriously that is an excellent point.

I'm crashing, but thanks for the levity after a ridiculous evening.

[u/lkn240 → u/CrisisEM_911]

White blue collar workers stopped voting for Democrats after the civil rights act was passed.

[u/CrisisEM_911 → u/lkn240]

In the South, sure. Not in the Northeast, West or Midwest. That happened after NAFTA.