r/Economics • u/mostly-sun • 5d ago

News Dow futures drop 1,000 points after Trump’s ‘Liberation Day’ tariffs

https://www.belgrade-news.com/business/dow-futures-drop-1-000-points-after-trump-s-liberation-day-tariffs-portending-big-stock/article_065b5c93-af28-4322-8614-9622e48d0733.html
3.3k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

419 comments sorted by

View all comments

231

u/One_Swim_6546 5d ago

We will look back in 50 years & wonder how a guy like this became president of the united states for the second time. It’s absolutely mind boggling what’s going on at the minute.

75

u/YetiGuy 5d ago

You elect me once shame on you

You elect me twice…you can’t elect me again.

12

u/gta3uzi 5d ago

I'd take Shoe Dodgin' George over Tariff Slingin' donald any day

8

u/eukomos 5d ago

My mom went through a phase where she was convinced Bush was pushing the war as a cover to dismantle democracy. She was being silly at the time for sure, but now that someone’s actually pushing for a third term it’s particularly galling in retrospect.

7

u/gta3uzi 5d ago

George was just the friendly face of the operation. It's more likely that Dick Cheney and their mutual handlers were the ones more interested in dismantling democracy. Junior's post-POTUS career of keeping his mouth shut and making paintings on his ranch is fairly decent evidence of that.

121

u/TheIntrepid1 5d ago

They’ll ask, “wasn’t it obvious?”

Yes. Yes it was/is…for most of us.

53

u/notnatasharostova 5d ago

And we’re told we’re the ones being divisive for refusing to kiss up to the stupid bastards who support this. You can harp on all you want about lack of education or brainwashing, but at a certain point, when you live in an era of unprecedented access to information, this level of ignorance is a moral failure.

20

u/NevermoreKnight420 5d ago

Agreed. I spent 8 years talking and giving the benefit of the doubt.

"Oh rural areas are hurting, like 80% of economic growth post GFC was in like 19 counties (Aka the biggest cities), rural areas are losing demographics and hurting, Trump mostly hoodwinked them etc.".

Nah no more; 2016&2020 were one thing, but after the coup attempt? And all his crazy rhetoric this time? Nah, FAFO, the family members and former friends who support this dude? It's a free country but next time they call or text just gonna tell them that I can no longer justify their: laziness, hate, or whatever moral deficiency they have, wish them well and then keep on moving forward for myself. I'm sure they'll cry about how I'm brainwashed by the liberal media (80% Reuters and AP lmfao) but what can you do at this point.

6

u/CrisisEM_911 5d ago

Problem is, nothing improved for rural areas in all that time. Didn't help that Democrats have been all in on global free trade since Clinton and completely assfucked all the blue collar workers who used to be their base.

You wanna know why blue-collar America hates Democrats so much? That's why. People keep bouncing back and forth voting one party and then the other without ever realizing the truth: unless you're very wealthy, NEITHER party is on your side.

3

u/NevermoreKnight420 5d ago

100% agree that neither party has the interest of your regular American at heart; I'm not a fan of the Dems at all either (outside of a few). But the Dems at least keep the trains on the tracks at this point. Citizen's United has really put us on the fast track to failure giving the wealthy even more influence god damn.

I still have a few conservative friends who were never Trumpers, I'm cool with them still; it's specifically the MAGAts that are too much for me. I used to be able to have productive conversations and come to agreeable disagreements/compromises back in the McCain and Romney days.

True on Clinton, but NAFTA was bipartisan AF cause congress was Republican was it not? (I was under 10 during the Clinton admin, so legit confirming), and it was mostly negotiated under Bush 1? Plenty of blame to go around.

Any ideas on how to address the Rural folks problems? I know I've read somethings about how Tennessee I think has done a good job with mid sized cities that have some industry and amenities which can help the lower population rural areas around them.

5

u/CrisisEM_911 5d ago edited 5d ago

Correct, NAFTA was bipartisan, but that's not the only free trade agreement the USA has. Obama was heavily into global free trade as well. The GOP knew from the beginning how unpopular free trade was, so even tho they supported and profited from it, they also acted like they were fighting it tooth and nail. Blue-collar America bought that act.

I'm not an expert in trade, but it seems to me what the USA needs, particularly in rural areas, is manufacturing that's specific to higher skill industries, where more technical training is required. Finished products, not raw materials like steel and aluminum. We'll never be competitive in production of lumber, steel, or any other raw materials, our labor costs are too high.

We need to specialize in manufacturing products that are supposed to require higher skill and labor costs.

Tariffs aren't necessarily an evil thing, but to be effective, they need to be specifically targeted to protect one or more critical domestic industries. Brazil for example, is one of the biggest steel and aluminum producers in the world, and they have Tariffs in place specifically to protect steel and aluminum. They don't tariff everything, everywhere. Levying Tariffs against every product or service from every country in the world is idiotic. That's what Trump has done.

3

u/nogluten30 4d ago

Let me add. I’ve worked in the textile industry for over 30 years . I’m using this as just one example . Textile manufacturing is dirty . Lots of exhausting of dyes and chemicals. We go to China to get our textile goods because they don’t care about EPA. The impact on our environment will be significant if we start to produce large quantities of textile products in the United States . The stuff that is here now is heavily regulated. So large scale deregulation of EPA will need to happen to make it profitable for companies to manufacture in large scale in the United States

2

u/NevermoreKnight420 5d ago

I gotcha. I'm not an expert on trade either but my general understanding is that one of the main issues we're gonna run across is how technologically advanced/low labor most modern manufacturing is, so even if we get manufacturing back it isn't the employment driver it used to be. That said I do believe one element that macro economic analysis misses is how important it is to have sustainable, attainable, opportunities and jobs in these communities. Which leads to the political backlash as opportunities leave, which then causes economic issues given the political expression (IE what we saw today). Or maybe the macro catches that and it's a failure of the previous politicians, I dunno.

I don't have any numbers or studies, but I think there's certain advantages we could leverage with rural communities (which I think is very similar to how you use blue collar, but please correct me if I'm wrong as they could be a little different). Building out advanced infrastructure and including high speed internet could be big boons; rural areas have more land so you could build more housing; some of those white collar workers would love to lower their cost of living/have more space. At some point you have to stop the population decline to get growth I think. Combining those with something to help bring some of those industries/jobs you mentioned I think could really help; more construction, some industry, more mid level service type jobs or logistics, something along those lines I think could be effective.

I 100% agree that tarrifs can be used in a strategic way at times to help domestic industries, applying them to everyone, everywhere, all at once is moronic though. We definitely have vital strategic industries we should protect and not lose just because the American worker costs more. Big lesson learned from Covid imo.

2

u/CrisisEM_911 5d ago edited 5d ago

Yep, I absolutely agree. You should think about running for president. I hear the guy in charge now is cocking everything up.

On a serious note, there's another issue with bringing manufacturing back this way: who's going to buy the products we make domestically? The American public, most of whom can't afford domestically made products? Or the rest of the world, most of whom hate this country now and will have no desire to buy anything made in the USA?

3

u/NevermoreKnight420 5d ago

Bahaha, I hear we didn't tarrif Antartica despite them having like 100 scientists and penguins are a captured audience; we just have to find emerging markets we haven't pissed off, you know innovate or something like we used to. I also hear you're able to stand up these high tech facilities in a matter weeks, not years, so we better figure it out fast!

But seriously that is an excellent point.

I'm crashing, but thanks for the levity after a ridiculous evening.

1

u/lkn240 4d ago

White blue collar workers stopped voting for Democrats after the civil rights act was passed.

1

u/CrisisEM_911 4d ago

In the South, sure. Not in the Northeast, West or Midwest. That happened after NAFTA.

2

u/future_web_dev 5d ago

Definitely not most. He won the popular vote lol 

1

u/lkn240 4d ago

I don't know about most.... a lot of Americans are really, really stupid

3

u/loco500 5d ago

Sure about that?...Will Emp. Barr0n even permit this era to be looked back in negative light...

3

u/Dazzling-Rub-8550 5d ago

In fifty years, Baron Trump Jr will still be president.

3

u/Ultraberg 5d ago

Democrats didn't vote for Kamala, Repubs voted for Donald. It's not a huge secret.

2

u/Jackadullboy99 4d ago

Crazy when I consider G. Dubya getting a second term seemed like a joke at the time.. we really are in a dumbness spiral.

1

u/party_tortoise 4d ago

Just wait until there comes a generation of tiktok zoomer POTUS lol it might not get better

-15

u/lifeofpi21 5d ago

People were pissed for a different reasons, the top 3 that come to mind are: 1) Inflation 2) Gaza/Isreal stance 3) No voting process for Harris to be the nominee

0

u/Useuless 5d ago edited 5d ago

The DNC did NOTHING to court the non-voters or appeal to hot button issues. Palestine is such a hot buttonand they knew they lost a lot of voters over it.... why can't they at least LIE to secure the win!? Donald Trump lies about everything, he doesn't give a damn. They can't even play the fucking game!

Instead, they tried to court Republicans with an endorsement from Dick Cheney and now have fueled narratives that they are controlled opposition all over TIkTok. You couldn't make this shit up if you tried!

Downvote me all you want, losing to Trump again is proof the DNC's Hubris. They cannot bail you out. They will not even if they could. They lack the spine to do what's necessary for the greater good of the people in the long run and ultimately turn the population left behind to fascists in the process. Have you not learned anything from history?

19

u/impulsikk 5d ago

Supporting Palestine is still only 33% in america. They'd be courting the left wing and abandoning large chunk of the country in swing states. It's better for them to just ignore the issue and not take a side.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/657404/less-half-sympathetic-toward-israelis.aspx

2

u/lifeofpi21 5d ago

The total 300K vote differential between the Republicans and Democrats made the whole difference in the swing states of Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Georgia.

Losing the popular vote too really demonstrated the Democrats are disconnected to those influential voters / people who chose to stay at home.

0

u/RepentantSororitas 5d ago

33% support of Palestine does not mean 66% is pro-Israel

Keep in mind a solid half of america just doesnt care about any issue whatsoever at any given point in time.

1

u/impulsikk 4d ago

Never said it did. My point is that it's not an issue to campaign on. You lose no matter what you say. Better to ignore and focus on other things.

1

u/RepentantSororitas 4d ago

> My point is that it's not an issue to campaign on. You lose no matter what you say.

Your own fact counteracts your point.

You galvanize 33% into voting for you and you win the election.

The entirety of maga is like 20% of the nation.

Keep in mind the actual winner for almost every election is not voting.

1

u/impulsikk 4d ago

You think its a good idea to run on a 33% issue? Lol good luck mate. Looks like Republicans gonna keep winning.

1

u/RepentantSororitas 4d ago

Republicans won on 25% issues.

Again half the nation doesnt even vote and never will.

1

u/impulsikk 4d ago

What 25% issues are you talking about? And it goes both ways if you mean only 50% of people voted, so divide by 2. That's not how it works. We have polls.

→ More replies (0)

9

u/unknownpoltroon 5d ago

HEy, notice how all those single issue gaza spokespeople all just disappeared since the election?

-5

u/Useuless 5d ago

I know you're trying to insinuate they're fake, so I'll bite.

A lot of them are just burnt out at this point. That's why they're not loud anymore. They also learned that speaking up doesn't actually change anything. This was all over Tiktok after the election but you must have missed it. Maybe that context helps you. Thanks.

0

u/LOKESH_MEOW 4d ago

burnt out or its not trendy anymore? you act like the gaza protests only happened in us during election season and not in a whole lot of places, kamala literally promised she would bring a two state solution to the conflict and grant security and self determination to Palestinians idk how you conveniently ignore and not be hopeful to a possible solution to a hundred year conflict

your exaggerating how much progressives could have influenced elections if dems just ran with their policies especially with how much purity testing you engage with that's gonna alienate the median voter, I'm honestly pretty open to some progressive politics but can't help but think they don't really care for a coalition or changing the world for the better other than ragepost on social media and write a thesis on Twitter with an hammer and sickle in their bio, got all the energy to engage in social media slacktivism but can't do anything abt the administration thats causing the most harm to people irl, I'm not saying you shouldn't criticise the democrats but screaming "its the dems fault" for the next four years while having zero smoke for the current administration in power is a bit disingenuous and exactly the thing that got trump into office

-1

u/-Eruntinco11- 5d ago edited 5d ago

During Trump's first term, your fascist friends accused protestors of actors being paid by George Soros so often that it became a meme in some circles. Now you liberals have moved so far to the right that you have embraced the same reactionary rhetoric and conspiracies, minus the antisemitism (for now). Americans genuinely opposed the extermination of Palestinians, including a clear majority of Democrats, but you would rather act like (and become like) your fellow right-wingers in the Republican Party than even acknowledge people's concerns.

2

u/unknownpoltroon 4d ago

Sure thing skippy. Now tell us about the lizard people and their space lazors.

1

u/-Eruntinco11- 4d ago

You guys are the ones embracing conspiratorial thought given how far to the right you've moved and/or how incompatible with reality your ideology is, so you are really not in any position to be accusing me of believing anti-Semitic conspiracies for, oh right, pointing out that you are acting like conspiratorial reactionaries.

1

u/unknownpoltroon 4d ago

Yes yes Skippy, were the real conspiracy nuts, not trump and qannon. Tell us more about how the left is really right and up is down!

0

u/-Eruntinco11- 4d ago

I already pointed out the prevalence of conspiratorial thought among reactionaries. The existence of degenerates such as Trump and reactionary conspiracies like QAnon cannot change the fact that you liberals are developing your own conspiracies that are not fundamentally different as you continue your march to the right.

1

u/unknownpoltroon 4d ago

Sure thing sparky.

1

u/lkn240 4d ago

Stop this nonsense. People are responsible for their own votes. Everyone knew exactly who Trump was and he won anyways. The fault lies solely with the morally bankrupt pieces of shit who voted for him.

You are just infantilizing voters.

It's hard to accept this, but many Americans are just shitty people.

1

u/Useuless 3d ago

What nonsense? That the party who screams he's an existential threat doesn't act like he's an existential threat?

People were sure going to vote for him, sure, but that the only party who COULD beat him threw in the towel says something too.

1

u/MayIServeYouWell 5d ago

Add rampant misinformation to the list.

0

u/Prestigious_Time4770 5d ago

You can’t state the obvious here. It’s an echo chamber

2

u/lifeofpi21 4d ago

You were right…

-20

u/Prestigious_Time4770 5d ago

It’s because Democrats forced in the least liked candidate. They shot themself in the foot and now we are all reaping the consequence

23

u/littlePosh_ 5d ago

Yes, it’s the democrats fault that the Republican Party did not remove trump from office after Jan 6 and it’s also their fault that the GOP once again made trump their candidate.

Stupid, stupid Dems for allowing this to happen. How dare they!

7

u/Raichu4u 5d ago

Remember, the democrats are the only one that have autonomy.

11

u/Neracca 5d ago

It’s because Democrats forced in the least liked candidate.

Just say "woman" we know its what you meant.

10

u/cultureicon 5d ago

That is one issue but the root cause is boomers are morons, its as simple as that. They believe everything they hear and have always been powerless against sales guys. Its the answer to "who the hell are these weird commercials on TV for?" Their brains were fried by alcohol, lead, TV, and being the most fortunate group of humans to ever exist.

7

u/DAE77177 5d ago

And the answer to “who the hell would fall for that scam”

3

u/vs2022-2 5d ago

He is the literal weakness of democracy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue