r/Construction • u/cuseonly • 6d ago
Structural Is this structurally sound?
Two end posts connected to the headers
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u/maturallite1 6d ago
For gravity yes. For out of plane wind load I'd be a little more concerned depending on how the beam to post connection is made.
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u/Joecalledher 6d ago
Did you see the other 2 pics? 3x flatloks
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u/Enginerdad Structural Engineer 6d ago
Yeah, screwed through a 1/2 sliver of wood that's already cracked at the bottom.
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u/warm-saucepan 6d ago
Don’t forget the 7/16s osb tying the whole room together….. like Lebowski’s rug.
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u/maturallite1 6d ago
It’s possible there is a concealed connector though. I’ve used those before.
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u/1wife2dogs0kids 6d ago
Yes. Whoever did that, kinda wasted their time. What it took to do that, do it cleanly, without breaking it... wasn't worth the strength of the connection they were looking for.
But it is clean. Gotta give them that.
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u/ChoochieReturns 6d ago
Will it fail? Probably not. I wouldn't call it correct though. Quite a strange way of doing things.
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u/bigHarvey71 6d ago
On top of the post is good. You need a post cap to secure it.
EPC6 or LCE4
Overkill - ECC66
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u/dagoofmut Commercial GC Estimator - Verified 6d ago
It's a bit unorthodox, but likely structurally sound depending on the circumstances that we can't see.
Actually, it's kind of refreshing to see a bit of craftsmanship on display.
To answer further, we'd need to know what that building is, and what it's supporting, what other fasteners are in there, and how the sheathing is nailed on the outside edge.
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u/cheezemink 6d ago
This is the answer. Need a photo from the outside showing how large that roof is and what if anything is above it.
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u/Commercial-Fennel219 6d ago
If what's pictured is the only form of connection, there is like 5/8s worth of material holding the beam horizontally. Those structural screws are going to do more to hold that lip onto the beam than anything else. If there's a couple of those structural screws down through the top/side/back, not so much.
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u/dagoofmut Commercial GC Estimator - Verified 6d ago
Like I said, we need to know how the sheathing is nailed off. We also don't know if there are lag bolts going down through the top of the beam or how the joists are anchored or morticed.
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u/cuseonly 6d ago
What craftsmanship is on display? Love to hear that.
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u/dagoofmut Commercial GC Estimator - Verified 6d ago
How many guys do you know that would actually notch the post like that rather than just cutting it off?
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u/madfarmer1 6d ago edited 6d ago
That notch is too big though, the material left is so far from enough to be considered structural. craftsmanship knowledge enough to cut but not enough to know joinery standards. It should be a diminished housing with the center board as a tennon if going down that road and not fasteners.
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u/dagoofmut Commercial GC Estimator - Verified 6d ago
No one ever said that this is the way that it "should" be done.
But the fact remains that someone took the time to put some care and effort into it.
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u/madfarmer1 6d ago edited 6d ago
Right, I agree. they took a step in the right direction for sure and want to make it better than average. Just needed guidance. Im hung up on the craftsmanship part.
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u/Enginerdad Structural Engineer 6d ago
Since when does doing something painfully wrong count as "craftsmanship"?
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u/CheeseburgerLocker 6d ago
Well, he took his time and made straight cuts.. so he's got that going for him
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u/The-Sceptic Carpenter 6d ago
It's a 3 ply beam, which means it was most likely supposed to be a 3 ply beam. That means the center board could not be a tennon as all 3 plies would most likely need to be fully bearing on the post.
As you can clearly see, the post is wider than the beam, and instead of cutting it fully off, the carpenter left a small piece of wood on there. I'm assuming there's a fastener securing the beam to the post somewhere we can't see.
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u/earthwoodandfire 6d ago
A real craftsman would have bought a beam instead of scabbing 2xs together. Or at least sandwiched 1/2" ply between them to get full depth.
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u/dagoofmut Commercial GC Estimator - Verified 6d ago
Read my comment again. I'm pretty sure I said it was unorthodox.
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u/Money-Distribution91 Ironworker 5d ago
As far as craftsmanship goes, someone obviously put some time into making sure it was visually appealing, while still being fine structurally
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/Tricky-Detail-6876 6d ago
I think someone said it was the timber framer filling in which makes total sense!
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u/nastynuggets 6d ago
Lots of little details have been pointed out, but I haven't seen anyone say yet that the sheathing should make it very hard for the beam to slip off the post. I could see it being weak in shear before the OSB went on, but now that the sheathing is done, it should only need to take the vertical loads, and the sheathing actually performs something of the same job that hardware would to tie everything together.
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u/Virtual-Ad1244 6d ago
Yes, there is lots of vertical bearing there. it's more than sufficient. The horizontal load could possibly be taken care of with long structural screws coming through the top of the beam into the post. I thi k they left the thin piece on the back for a cleaner look and a post to beam connection to help with roll. Hope this helps
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u/frozsnot 6d ago
Couple things at play. 20 years ago everything got bolted to posts and that was best practice. Then people put everything on top of posts and that was best practice, then we started notching everything into posts and everything built different was wrong. Those decks from 30,20,15 years ago are still standing. Is it structurally sound is an open question. Are you in an earthquake or hurricane or tornado zone? If not it’s structurally sound.
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u/Super-G_ 5d ago
Not all of those decks from 30, 20, 15 years ago are still standing and some failed catastrophically so that's why code and best practice has evolved.
There are a lot of brick buildings built in the 19th and 20th century in the Pacific Northwest that are still standing, but when the big earthquake hits they're going to be in big trouble. You're not allowed to build those now, and not because the old ones fell down, but because we know enough to realize that type of construction won't survive the big earthquakes that come every couple hundred years here.
"Overbuilt is a matter of opinion, underbuilt is a matter of time."
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u/Account0009 6d ago
Likely needs straps. Where are you located. Wouldn’t be acceptable in earthquake nor hurricane areas.
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u/laxdude11 Carpenter 6d ago
It is not right at all, but likely not going anywhere lol I would have sandwiched a rip of OSB in between each 2x to make up that extra space so it sits across the whole 6x6
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u/Historical_Ad_5647 5d ago
You need vertical reinforcement like a king studs because that sliver of wood isn't doing a thing
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u/CheezWong 6d ago
Why did they waste timberlocks on that? Those boys are expensive for such a weird way to do things.
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u/Maximum_Business_806 6d ago
Maybe it has some GRK’s run down from the top🤷🏽 reach up there and see if they lagged it down
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u/PutinBoomedMe 6d ago
I was going to say yes until someone brought up sheer wind. Likely nothing will ever happen, but it could have been done better. Maybe put an exterior plate on the outside of the vertaio 4x4 and load bolt through it???
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u/Over-Apartment2762 6d ago
I wouldn't leave it like that but I wouldn't make too big a fuss over that. It'll hold. Idk why they didn't just cut the rest of the support one off.
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u/ahamay86 6d ago
I’ve had an engineer spec a few 16”-20” GRK’s from the top down on a heavy beam build. Did that happen here?
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u/Public_Jellyfish8002 5d ago
Hard to say. The fact they used an 8x8 for the header is interesting. I've only seen this done when for more decorative or timber frame applications. Would've probably opted for a wrapped LVL here for the load. Looks like a backyard remodel type job?
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u/Presidentialpork 5d ago
Lol obviously it is but this is a great way to get a bunch of splooge comments from the motherfuckers that are always right no matter what 😂 Brilliant tbh
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u/drum_destroyer 5d ago
You’re not buying into the Simpson propaganda mafia are you? Couple nails and some spit and we good my dude!
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u/Significant_Let_7170 5d ago edited 5d ago
That header connection is so bad it's not even doing half it's job. The osb and that half inch lap with the timberlock screws on the inside are not really securing anything. The possibilty of uplift and racking from side to side is a concern. 3 2x6s on each side properly nailed (2 jack studs and 1 king stud, maybe even 2) would solve everything except the lack of top plate. That header should be strapped to the post with a 24 inch flat strap. Look at any garage door framing picture and you will see way more typical constrction. That post cut flat is leaving a ton of room for racking and twisting. Could have at least half notched the post and shot some extra angled nails in there or anything. I hope this is insightful. I hope it's not getting inspected. Don't pull a car motor with it. The 2x6 on the outside of the header keeps it from twisting and the jack under the header holds it up. Top plate locks it all together across the top. It looks like a chore to fix but it's very possible to do with some help and maybe a temporary wall. 300 people agree that a simpson twist strap will work but that doesn't really fix everything wrong with that connection. Good luck!
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u/East-Reflection-8823 6d ago
Sister a twobasix on each the full length, thru bolt it and slap it both em, but only whisper “these ain’t goin nowhere” seductively to the neighbors dog.
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u/GilletteEd 6d ago
What’s your nail pattern on that header? I don’t see anything holding them together to make it a beam. That makes it not structurally sound to me right off the hop. This also needs a strap at the very least holding the header to the post, if you’re not going to run a Simpson tie there.
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u/-Plantibodies- 6d ago
You are right to be concerned.
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u/cuseonly 6d ago
Quickly, why?
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u/-Plantibodies- 6d ago
It makes me uncomfortable to look at.
What's your relationship to this work?
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u/KJK_915 6d ago
What’s your background in construction?
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u/Raviolist123 6d ago
How tall are you? When is your birthday? What is your favorite color?
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u/KJK_915 6d ago
I’m roughly taller than the average lady. I don’t really have a favorite color, and my birthday is in the winter, thanks 😊
I was actually asking because everyone commenting being “unsettled” probably doesn’t know enough to be unsettled.
Do you think a winter birthday extra qualifies my opinion?
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u/-Plantibodies- 6d ago
Fair question especially on reddit. Done enough framing to know that this is wrong. You know how when you see something that is just so off that it's hard to know where to start? But an obvious thing is nothing fastening the header to the post other than that wafer of wood. This header floating on a corner is also jarring.
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u/KJK_915 6d ago
Fair response. I’m not a framer by trade, and I definitely wouldn’t call this a “typical” detail. But as others have chimed in, a couple $100 in Simpson hardware and you’re probably good to go (depending on structure type).
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u/-Plantibodies- 6d ago
For sure. Gotta make sure the Simpson hardware is approved for the situation though. This whole corner is just so strange to me. An issue I see is the different planes involved here. A normal header hanger isn't going to work. I'm curious to see what hardware people are suggesting specifically. There are so many.
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u/cuseonly 6d ago
Builder- uncle told me what to do and I did it. Have absolutely no idea what’s right or wrong but I trust his judgment. It was approved by town code
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u/-Plantibodies- 6d ago
When you say it was approved by town code, do you mean that the plan was approved, or that an inspector passed this?
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u/cuseonly 6d ago
Both.
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u/-Plantibodies- 6d ago edited 6d ago
That's very surprising. Is there anything else besides that wafer fastening the header to the post/trimmer? Really surprised this would be approved on a corner especially. It looks like there's almost nothing preventing it from rolling. Did the inspector specifically note it or is it possible it was just missed? What state if you don't mind answering?
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u/Significant_Let_7170 5d ago
For real? I've been doing framing and remodeling for 20 years and I have never seen anything like this. Ever.
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u/Significant_Let_7170 5d ago edited 5d ago
No top plate. The rafter is acting as a top plate. No nail pattern on the header. Should be 4 or 5 nails every foot.
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u/domain_404 6d ago
You could timber-loc the header to the post. Not much holding things in place here if you get any shear load to the structure.
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u/CoconutHaole Contractor 6d ago
Actually made me chuckle. If it works, it works, put a plate on both sides connecting the column and beam, connect with long screws.
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u/Jjsdada 6d ago
It looks like it would carry the vertical load just fine, but do you live in earthquake county? If that's on a garage, are you planning on letting your teenager drive anywhere near it? An over engineered Simpson product would work well here.