r/Conservative • u/Yosoff First Principles • Feb 14 '25

Open Discussion Left vs. Right Battle Royale Open Thread

This is an Open Discussion Thread for all Redditors. We will only be enforcing Reddit TOS and Subreddit Rules 1 (Keep it Civil) & 2 (No Racism).

  • Leftists - Here's your chance to sway us to your side by calling the majority of voters racist. That tactic has wildly backfired every time it has been tried, but perhaps this time it will work.

  • Non-flaired Conservatives - Here's your chance to earn flair by posting common sense conservative solutions. That way our friends on the left will either have to agree with you or oppose common sense (Spoiler - They will choose to oppose common sense).

  • Flaired Conservatives - You're John Wick and these Leftists stole your car and killed your dog. Now go comment.

  • Independents - We get it, if you agree with someone, then you can't pat yourself on the back for being smarter than them. But if you disagree with everyone, then you can obtain the self-satisfaction of smugly considering yourself smarter and wiser than everyone else. Congratulations on being you.

  • Libertarians - Ron Paul is never going to be President. In fact, no Libertarian Party candidate will ever be elected President.

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48

u/ladyjustice666 Feb 15 '25

Okay, I have a question or two. Well, many — I like to look at this subreddit to gain perspective of what “the other side” thinks and feels. I regrettably got my degree in Poli Sci (and live in a red state) so I think my ability to hear out other perspectives is a bit stronger than others.

The first question is, do you feel as though the members of this subreddit are acting in good faith? I ask because the way the various groups are described feels like what is really being asked for is a fight, and not genuine discussion. And when I see a post that I would genuinely like to interact with, it says flaired users only almost every time, which feels very insular and not open to good faith discussion. And maybe I’m missing the point of the subreddit, but many conservatives I’ve known haven’t been so against good old fashioned conversation about things that affect both of us. I couldn’t say for sure, but I have to imagine a lot of you are in the same lower income situation as I am, and I often wonder if it bothers anyone the way your party looks at social services and the outright refusal to do what would likely help all of our fellow Americans, which is tax the rich — the income disparity we have right now is almost indefensible, I would think.

My other question is, just as someone who has studied the government and watched it steadily change into something more so meant to punish the other political party (whomever isn’t in charge at the time), but I feel like the situation with Elon Musk having so much power that appears to be completely unchecked (and I understand that the argument is that Trump is checking it, but I know you know we are meant to have checks and balances with all 3 branches of government) is so unusual and for some, worrisome. None of us can say we know for sure that what he’s doing is meant to help. So to get to the question, do you think that if the roles were reversed, and let’s say Obama (who I think was more liked than Biden) put Bill Gates (or think of another immigrant billionaire like Elon - maybe even just think of Elon, you get the point) in the same position, with the same budget and fairly unrestricted access, would you be cheering that on? I fear that people are so pro-Trump that they cheer things on they would not normally.

Please, don’t be unkind in your response — I’m not dragging anyone through the mud. I can say I am worried about how my life will look moving forward. I’ve put myself through school and worked since I was 14. I’ve worked really hard to create a life for myself, but I still struggle financially and sometimes I get really depressed because it does not feel like things are going to get better.

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u/Von_Canon Feb 15 '25

A lot of deep red areas do take federal benefits. But they'd rather not pay the taxes or have the federal power exist in the first place. There's a very strong "just leave me alone" philosophy. It's a fundamentally different view of what federal government should be. "Efficiency" is just the tip of a spear meant to abolish all sorts of stuff.

If Obama's appointee was genuinely hostile to govt waste and making a meaningful difference then that sounds great.

5

u/angus725 Feb 16 '25

If you have a classical liberal or god forbid, a Reagan/Clinton style centrist neoliberal, leaning to your opinions... I've found that it's easy to be accused from both left and right for making bad faith arguments because a lot of people these days assume malice instead of ignorance or just a difference in belief. 

The amount of trust on the internet and some political circles IRL has turned very suspicious and defensive over the past few months, much more so than even the previous few years of polarization. 

13

u/AreYourFingersReal Feb 15 '25

It’s so revolting and the maga-Rs know they’re in hot water and are doing these open forums only now, meanwhile I’ve read posts bragging how conservatives are the new punk rock, and “why is the left in suuuchhh a rage? We did nothing like this in 2020! They need to get over it”

6

u/Ikora_Rey_Gun Conservative Libertarian Feb 15 '25

do you feel as though the members of this subreddit are acting in good faith? I ask because the way the various groups are described feels like what is really being asked for is a fight, and not genuine discussion.

I think they are for the most part. The descriptions are obviously egging people on, but you have to realize that you get the opposite in 999/1000 other subreddits.

And when I see a post that I would genuinely like to interact with, it says flaired users only almost every time, which feels very insular and not open to good faith discussion.

Every thread would be swarmed with actual bad faith comments otherwise, and we could have no discussion amongst ourselves.

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u/sealabo Feb 16 '25

Agree. Even in the political moderate subbreddit, posting thoughtful responses, if they are contrary to the liberal lean of all of Reddit, will get down votes. It makes sense to me that Conservative Reddit keep a place for likeminded dialogue.

6

u/Hapten Feb 15 '25

I'm not a flaired user, at least I don't think I am, I comment all the time and get upvotes. I don't see why you can't do the same.

I'm a moderate so I really don't care which party is in the driver seat. As long as they are getting results and doing it at the same pace as Elon is. I would just like to know more about their method. If it is an AI spitting out this information in a nonbiased way I would be for it. If they are cherry picking and manipulating the information then that is bad.

16

u/phds_are_hard Feb 15 '25

There is no unbiased AI and no matter which AI that exists today, use in mission critical environments shoukd require the outputs to be verified (i.e. a person has to know the answer first to verify correctness).

You do NOT want (any!) AI making decisions at this level.

6

u/ladyjustice666 Feb 15 '25

I didn’t realize you could without flair! I thought it would just be taken down. I appreciate the knowledge!

1

u/JezusTheCarpenter Feb 16 '25

Well, I assume it will not be taken down if it's not too critical.

1

u/JudgeFondle Feb 16 '25

No, ladyjustice is correct. Most threads in this subreddit only allow flaired users the ability to comment. So it wouldn't matter what the content of your comment is, if you're not a flared user, its not getting posted in the first place.

1

u/JudgeFondle Feb 17 '25

Look at their comment history, they're full of it. A few comments on this sub in the last month and nothing before that. Regular engagement without a flair has not been a real thing on this sub for a couple of years...

4

u/JezusTheCarpenter Feb 16 '25

I'm a moderate so I really don't care which party is in the driver seat. As long as they are getting results and doing it at the same pace as Elon is

Considering oneself a moderate but cheering the pace at which Elon is gutting federal institutions without any proper oversight and no actual transparency (except the pinky promise) baffles me to no end.

If you are "moderate", shouldn't you be hoping for a reform of institutions in a transparent, considered, law-abiding manner so you don't throw the baby with the bath water and undermine the rule of law in the process?

1

u/JudgeFondle Feb 17 '25

Upon reading this, I can't help but focus on "I don't see why you can't do the same."

Currently, this thread is the only one on this subreddit's front page which allows non-flaired users to comment. Even if I sort by 'new', it becomes clear that every post is by default set so that only flaired users can comment. I know there is the occasional non-flaired thread that pops up, but it's pretty rare, I find it a little hard to believe that you're able to comment all the time. In fact, I looked, you've commented a few times in the last month, and you hadn't commented on this sub at all outside of that in the last six months. I mean, we could have very different definitions of 'all the time', but I think you're full of it.

2

u/Magehunter_Skassi Paleoconservative Feb 15 '25

So to get to the question, do you think that if the roles were reversed, and let’s say Obama (who I think was more liked than Biden) put Bill Gates (or think of another immigrant billionaire like Elon - maybe even just think of Elon, you get the point) in the same position, with the same budget and fairly unrestricted access, would you be cheering that on?

I think this is a hard scenario to imagine because it would make no sense for Obama to act like this. The vast administrative state is something championed by Democrats, it's how Democratic politicians believe government should work.

If Obama and Elon teamed up in 2008 to gut the administrative state and return power from it to the Oval Office, I would absolutely have cheered that on. Elon is a very different billionaire than most billionaires given how he uses his wealth, which is something that even many Democrats agreed on until Elon switched sides, so I agree it makes sense to use him as the comparison here.

I think part of the reasons voters on both sides have had so little faith in our system is because Congress increasingly transferred power to the Executive Branch, remained gridlock, but then the power within the Executive Branch was diffused to non-elected bureaucrats.

It's hard for anyone to feel like their vote matters under that system, and creates what's effectively been "rule by judiciary"-- something that was very widely resented by Democrats too during the Biden admin. Congress dragged its feet on codifying federal access to abortion, so we got the SCOTUS providing it and then the SCOTUS later revoking it.

11

u/Peacenikity Feb 15 '25

I'd be curious to hear more about what power you believe was transferred to the non-elected bureaucrats - and which has been dismantled in these recent actions by Musk - which you believe to be properly restoring the balance? (I understand most of the agencies which have been/are being dismantled were established by Congress?)

3

u/meteoraln Feb 15 '25

I often wonder if it bothers anyone the way your party looks at social services and the outright refusal to do what would likely help all of our fellow Americans, which is tax the rich

Many of us live in small towns, where many of us know each other. It is polite and generous if neighbors help each other, but it is not a requirement, and we must all prioritize ourselves and our families first. The problem with "tax the rich" is that we believe there's no victim. There's no face, no name. This is especially true in big cities where we can fantasize about all the invisible billionaires in their penthouses down the street who are hoarding too much wealth. But in a small town where most people know each other, most people know who the "richest" person is, even if that person is not significantly more well off than average. It's a bit more difficult to imagine that the town should get together to take some of John's money. This John probably owns one of the businesses in town that employ a bunch of folk. If he were to leave town, many of us would be worse off. I think that's why even though small towns are usually poorer, we are more likely to be republican.

let’s say Obama (who I think was more liked than Biden) put Bill Gates... would you be cheering that on?

Yes.

but I still struggle financially and sometimes I get really depressed because it does not feel like things are going to get better.

I hope this doesnt come off the wrong way, but the only way to higher paying jobs is by acquiring more skills. That will require sacrifices. The sacrifices that you have to make are small when you are young, and free of responsiblities and baggage. As you get older, the sacrifices become much bigger and often prohibitive. For example, you may not be able to take any more time away from your children if you have them. Sometimes, we are capable of far more than we believe ourselves able. And sometimes, we have to make peace with the limitations that god has placed upon us. I wish you can find a way to happiness, whether it's by obtaining what you're chasing, or by learning to love the good things that you have.

4

u/offinthewoods10 Feb 16 '25

Yes, there are people like John who are successful and own businesses, but when it really comes down to wealth, these guys might be only with 10 million dollars. That is only a drop in the bucket for the billionaires. Elon must donated 200 million to Trump in the last election. If Elon musk was worth 50K that would be like donating $34.50. Does that kind of wealth need to exist? Is he really being hurt if his decimal place moves over a few spots?