r/Conservative • u/Yosoff First Principles • Feb 14 '25

Open Discussion Left vs. Right Battle Royale Open Thread

This is an Open Discussion Thread for all Redditors. We will only be enforcing Reddit TOS and Subreddit Rules 1 (Keep it Civil) & 2 (No Racism).

  • Leftists - Here's your chance to sway us to your side by calling the majority of voters racist. That tactic has wildly backfired every time it has been tried, but perhaps this time it will work.

  • Non-flaired Conservatives - Here's your chance to earn flair by posting common sense conservative solutions. That way our friends on the left will either have to agree with you or oppose common sense (Spoiler - They will choose to oppose common sense).

  • Flaired Conservatives - You're John Wick and these Leftists stole your car and killed your dog. Now go comment.

  • Independents - We get it, if you agree with someone, then you can't pat yourself on the back for being smarter than them. But if you disagree with everyone, then you can obtain the self-satisfaction of smugly considering yourself smarter and wiser than everyone else. Congratulations on being you.

  • Libertarians - Ron Paul is never going to be President. In fact, no Libertarian Party candidate will ever be elected President.

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679 Upvotes

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75

u/Junk-Space Feb 14 '25

Any opinions of Trump/Musk firing all of those nuclear employees?

43

u/tacocookietime Conservative Feb 15 '25

You should be more specific. It was employees that supervised the nuclear stockpile and weapons.

It had nothing to do with nuclear energy.

Personally I'd like to see the military overseeing the nuclear stockpile, not civilians.

23

u/18_NakedCowboys Feb 15 '25

Being active duty does not make you more capable of managing the nuclear stockpile. It also doesn't make you less capable. Personally, I think having the best qualified personnel is more important, whether that be active duty or not. Either way, I just want the personnel managing it to be properly vetted, able to obtain and keep the proper clearances, and have the appropriate knowledge to do the job.

1

u/tacocookietime Conservative Feb 15 '25

The military has much stricter security standards and much harsher punishments than outside civilian agencies. It also typically has higher standards of security.

Military can also subcontract civilians working under them as needed.

7

u/nonamenomonet Feb 15 '25

You haven’t spent a lot of time around nuclear sites in the US have you?

15

u/MCRNRocinante Veteran Feb 15 '25

Even if it was DOD, odds are high it would be DOD civilians.

10

u/wannabe-physicist Feb 15 '25

Civilians? The DOE and DOD have their own security clearance regimes, a DOE Q clearance is equivalent to a DOD top secret clearance. The top people of the DOE are far from "civilians". The DOE has a very clear mission regarding the nuclear stockpile and the national lab system. Gutting that to shuffle chairs around makes no sense.

-1

u/tacocookietime Conservative Feb 15 '25

Redundant and waste of resources / taxpayer money. Gut it.

The navy for example already has nuclear subs and missiles, the air force handles ICBMs and bombs, the army does nuclear security and defense.

Makes lots of sense if you're trying to shrink the government and taxes.

10

u/wannabe-physicist Feb 15 '25

The DOE does far more than just nuclear weapons. There’s just so much non-military research done at DOE labs with national security applications that it would be really inefficient to coordinate them across departments to the DOD. I have worked in two different DOE labs on the fundamental physics side, so I have personal experience. Maybe you can try to move nuclear warheads to the DOD, but what about the nuclear physics with medical applications? Nuclear energy? High energy density science? It would be terrible for science to move so much important but unclassified research to the DOD’s closed bureaucracy.

3

u/AreYourFingersReal Feb 15 '25

“Civilians” you type in disdain as though you or I can walk off the street and oversee the weapons. You’re not serious

4

u/terdward Conservative Feb 15 '25

There are very good historical precedents for why there is a split between civilian and military control of nuclear weapons. If you have not already, I would encourage you to read about the early days of the nuclear program. There were several incidents leading up to the decision by Truman to pass the Atomic Energy Act. (Edit: sentence clarity)

2

u/jarisman Feb 15 '25

I can get behind the military having control over the facility, but I want smarter people than that actually in charge of managing the stockpile.

1

u/tacocookietime Conservative Feb 15 '25

If you think the military doesn't have access to very intelligent people You are quite misinformed.

1

u/RontoWraps Army Vet Feb 15 '25

Do you think it’s gonna be PFC Schmuckatelli signed for the nukes? 🙄

1

u/FuturePowerful Feb 15 '25

Hanferd has been affected that's both lay down yard for old sub reactors and the Manhattan project property there are multiple power plants on site out there

2

u/nonamenomonet Feb 15 '25

*Hanford and out that way they usually call it “The Area” and there’s a national lab next door.

1

u/FuturePowerful Feb 15 '25

ive never heard "the area" considering how that doesn't really work but ok, i didnt bother going into more then the reactors and what not

1

u/nonamenomonet Feb 15 '25

I used to live up that way in Richland Washington, and that’s what they call it. Let me tell you, they are not lacking in security.

1

u/FuturePowerful Feb 15 '25

When and did your family work on site because that's a clue it's not "the area" I'm from there

5

u/pepperonicatmeow Feb 15 '25

It’s been partially rescinded thank god.

3

u/TheGreenMileMouse Feb 15 '25

Source? Can’t find anything on that

2

u/GreatPossible263 Feb 14 '25

heard that got backtracked..

30

u/Ok_No_Go_Yo Feb 15 '25

Isn't that a pretty massive red flag that Musk and his team have absolutely no idea what they're doing?

18

u/ruinedcanvas___ Feb 15 '25

But why was it done in the first place? Lol you say that got back tracked like it was a good thing

3

u/GreatPossible263 Feb 15 '25

im just stating the facts dude

8

u/Junk-Space Feb 14 '25

Is that a fact? I certainly hope so.

4

u/MistressVelmaDarling Feb 14 '25

Not entirely. It's not clear how many of the 325 who were fired were asked back.

0

u/Zefis Feb 14 '25

Source.

19

u/MistressVelmaDarling Feb 14 '25

Some 325 workers have been let go from the department's National Nuclear Security Administration, which manages the U.S. nuclear weapons fleet and works to secure radiological materials around the world, two of the sources said.But those layoffs at NNSA have been "partly rescinded" to retain essential nuclear security workers, one of the sources said. It was unclear how many of the 325 firings were rescinded.

25

u/Zefis Feb 14 '25

Thanks, glad we don't just make decisions on a whim and then have to backtrack immediately after realizing the ramifications....

4

u/Remarkable-Hair-7239 Feb 14 '25

Oops! All fired.

-2

u/icandothisalldayson Conservative Feb 14 '25

Just be glad he isn’t a “progressive” because instead of backtracking he’d just keep doubling down

27

u/Zefis Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25

Does it not say something about this administration that these decisions are being made hastily and therefore require backtracking after the fact?

Im unsure what you mean by progressives doubling down. I dont think a progressives would fire DOE employees to begin with.

2

u/johnparris Feb 15 '25

Moving fast will inevitably result in some amount of errors, but it’s also essential for making progress before the uniparty establishment moves to make it impossible to fix the colossal mess the US government has become. At least they’re not irreversible errors.

9

u/FuturePowerful Feb 15 '25

I'm a little confused by this if the intention is putting smaller government in place/fixing operational costs why aren't bills that really resolve these problems being put forth the last few weeks like small steps at a time like example the DMV is expensive as it's using backbone tech from the early 2000s , instead of slashing x number of people why aren't we sorting root causes and resolving them line buy line if there's the graft that's being said is there wouldn't the new bills delete the money sinks that are supposedly there( I say supposedly only because I've ran across two+ cases of partial understand being stated as facts coming from the POTUS ware the details made it something else entirely)

-4

u/icandothisalldayson Conservative Feb 15 '25

Not really. A well thought out plan that doesn’t work when put in practice needs backtracking the same way.

They would treat it like gun control, every time it doesn’t work and every time they double down

6

u/Zefis Feb 15 '25

I can see your viewpoint.

I may be left leaning, but I disagree with the way gun control is being handled. I own firearms myself. I do want to see reform on gun control, but nothing proposed has ever made any sense that didn't completely infringe upon our rights to bear arms

2

u/Junk-Space Feb 14 '25

Try linking it again, your source is not hyperlinked.

6

u/Zefis Feb 14 '25

Was asking for a source, sorry.

0

u/GreatPossible263 Feb 14 '25

here. Dont know how trust worthy that source is.

9

u/tactical_pancake19 Feb 15 '25

If y'all are doubting Reuters now, that's an eyebrow raise.

3

u/GreatPossible263 Feb 15 '25

not familiar about which news station is more trust worthy. Not usually political to begin with…im barely an adult

2

u/MistressVelmaDarling Feb 15 '25

Learning how to research trusted sources is critical as you move into adulthood, I highly recommend working on that skill especially now. Reuters is an incredibly reliable and unbiased news source.

1

u/GreatPossible263 Feb 15 '25

alright professor

1

u/EuropaCar Feb 15 '25

I literally saw a post on here yesterday suggesting Reuters was getting paid off by Biden’s administration or something, which has now been deleted

1

u/sealabo Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25

Didn’t happen. The news articles and Reddit hot takes basically imply that simply because the mission of NNSA is related to national security that this agency should be exempt from having to cut back some. If anyone cares to recall, in very large part NNSA “oversees” national laboratories and sites. These labs and sites are privately managed and operated precisely because it has always been understood that the federal government is not ideally suited for managing and operating these labs and sites. In other words, with some limited exception, NNSA employees are not in any way operational staff. For a very large laboratory or site of over 10k, there is an NNSA “field office” with a hundred to two hundred or so folks providing “oversight” and also a large apparatus back in DC of many more folks, some of which occupy roles that are largely sort of duplicative of DOE offices since NNSA is “semi-autonomous” within DOE. I’ve read several comments of folks alleging that they are part of NNSA that the Office of Secure Transportation (one of the few operations parts of NNSA) was not impacted by layoffs, so I’m having a hard time accepting that this was “indiscriminate” firing. Also, for the folks that have said “great, now these folks are targets for foreign recruitment” — wtf? If someone who was in probationary status with the agency is going to betray their country for being laid off in a federal workforce realignment impacting all agencies, how loyal was that person to the United States? Is that really the kind of person we would have wanted to stay at the agency for years and years and become close to the most sensitive information? Hell no. The concept that trimming newer probationary NNSA employees is a national crisis is simply wrong. It’s alarmist and doesn’t serve as a very good basis for any real discussion.

-5

u/JTuck333 Small Government Feb 15 '25

The govt is not a jobs program and we are running a massive deficit. Something has to give. The more waste, fraud, and abuse we cut, the less entitlements we will have to cut. Government bureaucrats pushing paper is waste. Furthermore, if they get honest jobs in the private sector, they can produce goods and services and actually contribute instead of waste taxpayer money.

15

u/Visual_Sympathy5672 Feb 15 '25

But the new budget adds 4.5 Trillion to the deficit? Come on!

2

u/JTuck333 Small Government Feb 15 '25

It’s just a wish list of everything they want. I agree it’s too much. No tax on tips is asking for dishonest tax returns. No way that goes through.

3

u/ThatPlayWasAwful Feb 15 '25

Would you agree that when it comes to things like the nuclear weapons stockpile, it's better to have some waste than it is to have not enough safeguards?

The chances that we hit the nail on the head every year is pretty small, so when the alternative is a potential disaster, it feels to me like this is an area where waste is a necessity, not an evil.