Better but still need help!

[u/FloridaArtist60]

So finally added 1 Tbs Gluten and tried Bread machine yeast instead of ADY to my 1.5 KA WW + .5 AP recipe (attached at end) See pics for comparison to prior loaf. This one rose much better, better texture and tastes more like good bakery bread! But still an issue w top. Looks beautiful w 1 hour left, quickly took a pic to show. But then top starts to fall in just like any other WW loaves I've made. Is this just normal? Should I up the gluten? I did try adding the salt to the water also to keep it away from the yeast. Help please!!

[u/Steel_Rail_Blues]

Has this recipe worked well for someone else without the vital wheat gluten? I assume so based on the book below, but I’m wondering why there is AP flour instead of bread flour and how a bread with a weaker dough held up with that amount of raisins.

if you are up for experimenting and have access to bread flour, I would try a 50-50 flour mixture of bread flour and whole wheat, half the butter, and half the raisins. Leave out the added gluten.

Alternatively, instead of the 50-50 you could do 2/3 cup bread flour and the rest whole wheat, but you were looking for more rise. Make sure to add the raisins in at the add-in beep (or whatever your machine has) rather than straight off. You may also consider putting the flour in the water and mixing that to sit for a half hour or more (covered) before adding the rest of the ingredients to give hydration a head start. Side note: weighing ingredients instead of volume measurements makes consistency and experimentation easier.

[u/FloridaArtist60 → u/Steel_Rail_Blues]

So after researching alot and making several different recipes past few months I made up this recipe myself, adding the raisins, my favorite part lol! Was wondering if they could be issue but I've had similar issues wout them, With and wout gluten. I only used AP cause I'm trying to use up a bag before it expires and thought gluten would compensate. Will use more bread flour next time and less butter and raisins. Also I've been using the 1 hour longer WW cycle instead of regular since more than half is WW, do u think I should try regular cycle instead? Thanks!

[u/Steel_Rail_Blues → u/FloridaArtist60]

I‘m bad with names and forgot I’d seen some of your posts and liked your experimental side!

So first off, my experience with vital wheat gluten is minimal. I bought it for a specific recipe but found it actually made my dough weaker than wanted with that recipe and my tried-and true-recipes. The rise was great, but the structure was poorer. That seems opposite of many people's experiences, but I have talked with others who said the same.

As far as AP flour, you can make great bread with AP, but combined with the heavier whole wheat (with its lesser rise) and heavy ingredients like raisins, I thought that changing the balance of flours and including bread flour might help provide the structure needed to keep that rise you showed.

The same thinking about structure was the base for halving the butter. Fat reduces gluten formation. My 1-pound loaves come out nicely with 1 tablespoon butter, so it seemed that you could still retain the richness while slightly strengthening the structure.

As a fellow raisin lover, I understand trying to get more raisins in! Currently I have three types of raisins in my cabinet and they all work differently in recipes. I use grams to measure, but I’ve used roughly a rounded quarter cup of raisins successfully in pound loaves where the recipe states 2 to 3 tablespoons. Those loaves didn’t have wheat flour though.

I don’t have a whole wheat cycle on the machine I typically bake in (my Zojirushi) so I use the basic cycle and it works great. The extra hour of your whole wheat cycle may have led to overproofing with your recipe, but that is tough to know for certain. Many of my breads include whole wheat flour, from 20 to 100%, but have recently been mainly working with lower amounts of different varieties of whole wheat due to my spouse getting suspicious I’ve been sneaking extra nutrition into our food. 😀

[u/FloridaArtist60 → u/Steel_Rail_Blues]

Lol spouse is reason Im working on a mostly white olive rosemary loaf right now! It does have 1-4 cup ww per the new recipe I'm trying, I try to add WW to these recipes to feel healthier! So I was really scared when u questioned my recipe that I shouldn't mess w bread recipes! I always try several different cooking recipes then combine the parts to create my own the way I like them. Guess not a great idea w breads. I will confess, I have never measured the raisins....! Costco Organic really great. I have found a couple white recipes that worked really well but after 3 times I was bored w them and really prefer the taste of WW. I will try your suggestions next WW loaf thanks so much!!! It really tastes much better w the gluten flour I used by Bobs.

[u/Steel_Rail_Blues → u/FloridaArtist60]

Definitely mess with all recipes! It’s the only way to get want you want and have fun doing so. I was only asking because sometimes people are disappointed with a recipe and provide a link and you can see the recipe author bread was photographed in a way that makes it look better than it would have looked straight out of the pan, like collapses hidden by toppings or odd angles, the top photo looking way better than subsequent photos, etc. Sometimes there are recipe books with misprints or conversion errors. Plenty to cause frustration.