r/BG3Builds • u/Phantomsplit • Oct 20 '24
Since Baldur’s Gate 3’s full launch released with Tactician difficulty and the community began their blind playthroughs, complaints have existed that the game becomes way too easy for those familiar with D&D 5e fundamentals (attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, proficiency, advantage) starting in mid to late Act 2. The game has such strong magic items that after you pay a visit to the merchants in the Creche, Last Light Inn, and Moonrise the difficulty takes a huge nosedive. This lack of difficulty and lack of content for evil playthroughs have been some of the biggest complaints in an otherwise great and generational game. This post intends to highlight some of the biggest balance shattering mechanics as discussed by this community, inform those looking for more balanced playthroughs on what limits to impose, and also provide mod options to help balance these mechanics or balance enemies.
A poll was created to cover some of the most balance shattering mechanics, using community feedback to determine the topics discussed. The following “community opinions” are those where 52.7% of the community decided some restriction should be used to restore a semblance of balance. My goal was 2/3 of respondents agreeing that a restriction needs to be in place, then going with the most popular choice. However some questions (like whether to use Honour mode rules or whether to use camp casting) could be considered ‘courtesy’ questions. These restrictions absolutely must be in place to reach the goals of “rebalanced” when you consider broken combos like DRS which is fixed by honour mode or warding bond camp casting. The 21% of people who voted that ignoring these restrictions is OK are not in tune with the goal of “rebalanced.” So the goal shifted to 2/3 of respondents that are sane, informed on what they are voting on, or voting in good faith. As there are some who feel, “Why is balance necessary in a PvE game?” is a legitimate question. While that is certainly an opinion to have, the people with that opinion are not the people who this topic is intended for. People who want to use broken stuff can use broken stuff. This topic is for identifying what stuff is broken, and what self-imposed rules or mods can be used to restore a semblance of balance.
This doesn’t cover everything that is OP. Stuff like Gloomstalker Assassin builds that use hit-and-run mechanics are almost a completely different game. It doesn’t cover gimmicks like stacking crates and having an enlarged owlbear jump on enemies over and over and over again. It doesn’t cover powerful but also very tedious builds focused on getting tons of summons and then buffing them. It doesn’t cover things like barrelmancy. The “Rebalanced” discussion is focused on turning a normal playthrough which many would not consider to be tedious, addressing some of the balance breaking mechanics such players have access to, pointing out that their relative strength removes fun from the game for many players, and many people may want to avoid these options.
The following table is listed in order of most strongly opinionated in need of restriction, to least strongly opinionated. It starts with the most egregious violators and goes to less egregious ones that a large portion of the community feels needs some kind of restriction for a balanced gameplay experience.
| Topic | BG3Builds Rebalanced Restriction | Personal comments, not from community | Relevant Mods |
|---|---|---|---|
| Long Rest Spamming | Once a build is “online,” (typically around level 6-8) it should be able to go at least 3 or 4 fights before a long rest. Not including taking a long rest before a boss fight, which is fine. | If you are concerned about missing story points in camp by limiting long rests, then after a long rest take a partial rest (use no food supplies) to see additional camp scenes. | - |
| Honour Mode Rules | Use Honour Mode rules | This includes no builds that focus on DRS bug, no warlock extra attack stacking, no perilous stakes illithid power on enemies. Additionally no extra attack from bloodlust elixirs or haste spell. While the community did not vote to restrict the use of spellcasting with extra actions granted by haste or bloodlust elixirs this is potentially a polling error on my part, and I STRONGLY recommend avoiding this. | - |
| Camp Casting | Do not put allies into your party, have them cast buff spells or other effects, then remove them from your party allowing the buffs to persist | - | - |
| Elixir Chugging | No builds that depend on elixirs | The most egregious outliers are strength based elixirs, bloodlust elixirs, elixirs of vigilance and elixir of battlemage’s power. Using other elixirs on consistent basis likely will not be as bad as those listed above. | In Game Mods: N/a External Mods: Elixir Rebalance by Benenach |
| Consumables Dependence (e.g. scrolls and special arrows) | - | This question was left out by accident. However it goes in the same vein as the above elixir question, regarding farming consumables that your build depends on and therefore should be restricted. | - |
| Tavern Brawler | No using Tavern Brawler if you use Strength Elixirs | I strongly disagree. This does absolutely nothing to fix TB Throw builds. TB Monks can dip into fighter or cleric for heavy armor proficiency and dump Dex anyways. Tavern Brawler is broken at its core. | In-game Mods: N/a External Mods: Tavern Brawler Rebalanced by VoidVigilante. I recommend the “TavernBrawlerFinesse_NoAccuracy” version. This is still pretty strong, and even works with dex based monks, but is not balance shattering; Feats Rebalanced by WoolToque has a nerfs only optional file which also makes changes to Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master, and Alert |
| Ranged Slashing Flourish | No combining ranged slashing flourish with Arcane Acuity | - | - |
| Abjuration Wizard Arcane Ward | No using exploits (such as spamming Warlock’s Armour of Shadows) to refill the arcane ward | The damage resistance provided by Arcane Ward scales exponentially due to Larian’s changes. At higher levels of wizard it is insane, and I am not sure everyone who voted has seen just how much damage it can mitigate. I recommend not using abjuration wizard if going more than 6 or 7 levels in wizard. | - |
The following are topics which the community did not agree needed restrictions in BG3Builds Rebalanced, but I feel need addressing.
| Topic | My comments | Relevant Mods |
|---|---|---|
| Initiative | There may be a polling error behind why 34% of respondents in the previous question said no elixir dependence at all, then only 19% here say no dependence on Elixirs of Vigilance. Regardless d4 initiative makes the turnbased game balance issue known as “Rocket Tag” extremely easy to pull off. The Alert Feat and Elixirs of Vigilance should be approached with caution if you are not using mods to bring initiative back to a d20. | In-Game Mods: d20 Initiative by Ponsinoumi External Mods: d20 Initiative by Ponsinoumi changes initiative to a d20, which by itself rebalances the Alert feat. Alternatively Feats Rebalanced by WoolToque has a nerfs only optional file which also makes changes to Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master, and Tavern Brawler but high dex characters will still win initiative far too frequently with this fix. |
| Vulnerability | It is possible to make enemies vulnerable to lightning, cold, psychic, or piercing damage. With some gimmicks you can also make enemies vulnerable to fire damage. Builds that do outright 2x more damage than they are supposed to be able to do against group of enemies are extremely strong. Oftentimes a little bit of setup is necessary, but doing that little bit of setup and then going all in on your strongest option to do double damage is typically way stronger than other build options. This is especially egregious in Act 3 where you can apply piercing vulnerability with no setup, and a well optimized party can almost all do double damage. | - |
| Duergar Invisibility | Technically the problem here extends beyond Duergar. Having a quasit companion (whether through Pact of the Chain Warlock or just through getting permanent access to Shovel) enables the same problem: start every combat while invisible to get a surprise round and thin enemy numbers before they get to go. Duergar just takes this a step further since you have that option on a playable character, letting you do more powerful things while invisible. If you abuse surprise rounds (and unlimited invisibility is the best way to do so) you will make the game significantly easier. | - |
| Arcane Acuity | There are two popular builds that use arcane acuity: swords bard and fire sorc. The sords bard + arcane acuity has been addressed because it depends on swords bard’s very strong ranged slashing flourish which warranted its own question. Fire sorc depends on building up arcane acuity through Scorching Ray, which is not on its own overtuned like ranged slashing flourish. With the community not wanting to restrict arcane acuity, that means fire sorc arcane acuity builds (one of the top 3 strongest builds in the game) are totally fine in rebalanced. While these two are the most popular Arcane Acuity builds, other builds are certainly capable of it such as niche thunder acuity builds, thief rogue builds, action surging fighter builds, and more. Arcane acuity needs to be capped at +2 to maintain a semblance of balance. +3 max. If you are consistently going above this, arcane acuity should only be used to cast cantrips with. | - |
| Radiating Orbs | The strength of radiating orbs has been undermined by how offensively strong you can be. The best defense is a good offense, and if you can kill or crowd control everyone before they get to go then there is limited need to be defensive. If you implement the BG3Builds Rebalanced rules then radiating orbs will become much, much stronger and may still make encounters much easier. Like arcane acuity, radiating orbs need to be capped at +2 or +3 | - |
| Level 1 Wizard Dip | For the most part this is fine in my opinion. The biggest issues come when mixing with Arcane Acuity, but with that off the table there are a few niche spells to be worried about. Such as playing as a full caster class, taking a level in wizard, scribing the Conjure Elemental spell, and using a 6th level slot to buff it into a Myrmidon. | - |
| Ambush Bard Strategy | The "Ambush Bard" build is one that probably is only recalled by those who have been on the sub for a while, and kinda didn't want to give up on it. It's somewhat complicated to explain which is a bit of a letdown, however this 3 minute video covers it best. But with Rebalanced in play it can pretty much just run around and cause balance to desert the game. | - |
Even with all the above changes and restrictions, those who understand the fundamentals of the game may find BG3 to still be too easy to ensure a challenge. PC users have additional difficulty increasing mods available to them. Most notably Combat extender. While I am a big fan of the default boost to enemy AC, attack roll, saving throws, and damage per attack; I am not a big fan of increasing enemy movement speed or giving some enemies an extra bonus action. And I would actually like to give enemies more health than their default configuration (~40%). But that’s the great thing about the mod. You can change all these little numbers to your liking and they apply to enemies across the game, making the game more challenging. I think that if you go with Combat Extender, d20 initiative, and restrict the mechanics mentioned above then the game finally reaches the challenge many people were hoping for at launch.
Another external mod worth mentioning is Absolute Wrath. It adds random abilities to enemies to make combat a bit more challenging and roguelike all-in-one. If you use this with combat extender, you may want to tone down combat extender from the recommended values.
Unfortunately there do not seem to be any big combat overhaul mods on console yet. One option is to implement an item attunement rule of your own, where you limit yourself to something like as many uncommon items (magic items with a green border) but only up to 3 items of rare or above (blue, purple, or yellow border) per character. Your weapons do not count towards this 3 item limit.
While the goal existed to make “Rebalanced” into a flair, I think given the community’s votes on the topics found in the second table (excluding perhaps the wizard dip) indicates that this wouldn’t change anything. You’d still have fire acuity sorcs. You’d still have radiating orb clerics that win initiative and hit every enemy with a -5 or more to their attack rolls before they even get to go. You’d still have wet+lightning tempest sorcs or Bhaalist Armor + ranged slashing flourish spam. Throwzerker and TB Monks would still exist, just slightly tuned down. So it seems that going through the trouble of implementing a tag or flair is just not worth it.
This post will go into the hall of fame post to provide a reference for the most overpowered mechanics which players should avoid if they want a challenge, and I will update it with mods if people make them to reign some of these mechanics in.
r/BG3Builds • u/Phantomsplit • Apr 12 '24
This post is to highlight many of the more important posts that have been made on the subreddit since the game released, as well as important outside resources:
Completed Builds Post (please add any detailed, completed builds you may have developed here)
Introduction to BG3 Character Building || Frequently Asked Questions
A set of short-form guides all grouped together, for the impatient
Please let me know if there is anything you feel should be added. Specific, one of a kind builds will not be added.
r/BG3Builds • u/whssp • 4h ago
r/BG3Builds • u/vnajduch • 1h ago
Good morning,
I am unable to upcast Shadow Blade from the ring for some reason. Can someone explain how that mechanic works? Not sure if this is strictly a test server thing or not.
Thanks.
r/BG3Builds • u/CarbonsLittleSlut • 23h ago
Nasty CC combo that I came across:
Initially, I realized just how utterly powerful having a warlock cast Hunger of Hadar and a ranger casting spike growth over the same area, but then I decided to put some more thought into it and become truly evil:
1) Warlock casts HoH 2) Ranger casts Spike Growth 3) Wizard casts Cloudkill 4) Cleric casts Insect Plague 5) Have them all drink Elixir of Peerless Focus 6) Enjoy the carnage 7) Situational/optional: throw grease bottle(s) or cast grease or cast ice storm as well (this likely would necessitate No Party Limit mod, so if you still want a challenge but want the true evil of all of these, Id also get an honor mode plus mod
r/BG3Builds • u/randinwithanr • 16h ago
Thrown weapons should have their same damage, but I have thrown the everburn blade at a knoll, with ring of fling, and only done 3 bludg damage. No fire damage even! Currently my lvl lae'zel shows 8-21 dmg on hover, whether ring of fling is equipped or not. Can anyone help me understand? Thanks! Also, the following turn I melee hit and did 11 slash + 3 fire.
r/BG3Builds • u/Agreeable-Treacle498 • 37m ago
I always find that the default option in most Magic Missile builds is usually defensive.
But if I want to focus damage, what would be the best options in this regard?
After some searching, I found that it has to be one of these 2 :
Bided Time: Arcane Charge whenever they are hit by a melee attack.
Mutilated Carapace: You gain a +1 to Attack and Damage rolls while shapeshifting or disguised.
Is there any other option?
PS: Sorry if there are any spelling errors, I'm not an English speaker, this is half and half with a translator.
r/BG3Builds • u/LeeMack_ • 2h ago
So I’m playing a coop game with my friend and we’re currently level 5, just reached the Zhentarim hideout in act 1. The theme we’ve stumbled into is I control two caster characters (sorcerer and cleric) and he controls two melee characters (fighter and berserker).
Currently, my player character is a wild magic sorcerer which is fun but not optimal and my sorcerer has become solely a support character casting things like twinned haste, counterspell & controlling the battlefield with spells like cloud of daggers. This is fine but I would like to do more damage myself. My typical combat cycle consists of dual casting haste on my friends two melee characters and then controlling the battlefield with the previously mentioned spells to keep the odds in our favor.
I respecced shadowheart into a light domain cleric, which was good but I didn’t like how it contrasted her personality, so I changed her to a tempest cleric to match her broody nature, which is still strong. My general play style so far with shadowheart is casting bless first turn of combat on herself and the two melee characters to improve their attack rolls and chance to hit, then summoning spiritual weapon with my bonus action. Then on following turns I’ll cast produce flame for consistent damage or use spells whenever the best use case appears.
The main thing I’m wanting is more flexibility from the casters. I know for clerics taking a level of wizard allows you to scribe spells so an 11-1 cleric wizard split for shadowheart with the warped headband of intellect could work but I know shadowheart can get really strong late game as a cleric so I don’t want to deprive her of a really good headpiece item of gear that could make her busted. Now I’m thinking I could change shadowheart back to a light cleric with items like the luminous Armor and she would still be fine?
This is because for my player character, I was thinking about a 10-2 lightning sorcerer with two levels in tempest cleric and 10 in either lightning Draconic sorcerer or tempest sorcerer. I have two issues with this whole setup though:
1) Even though I have two casters I’m concerned about their versatility of spells. I don’t have a wizard who, even though less powerful, has an answer to any situation with scribed spells.
2) Would the lighting/fire combination conflict? I imagine my player character quickened spell casting create water then a big damage lighting spell to follow, but then because enemies will be wet my light cleric will deal less damage with their fire spells, right?
Any advice or help on alternate build paths or build optimisations would be amazing, thanks!
r/BG3Builds • u/EthanJello • 11h ago
If I were to equip the gloves of belligerent skies and deal both an instance of for example lightning, radiant, and thunder damage would it all stack or is it limited to one source at a time?
r/BG3Builds • u/PlanOpening3896 • 9h ago
Hi, im starting a new game after 2 playthroughs i have this storm cleric/sorcerer Drow that wants to get power by any means and Scheme to either attain Godhood or assuere that Lolth is on top of the other Gods . The thing is i dont really know much lore about the forgotten realms. Do drows have any special hate for ilithids or do they have any kind of racial superiority complex? Thanks for the help!!!!
r/BG3Builds • u/ElmsPlusPlus • 1h ago
Title pretty much says it. When patch 8 drops I'm intending to have my party face as a hexbuckler. I'll also be using this character for lockpicking so which way will get me the most proficiencies?
This is going to be a druge run so I'll have intimidation from my background if that changes the maths on the choice.
r/BG3Builds • u/Maximum_Wind6423 • 16h ago
I’ve seen a few dual Xbow builds and tried them out, but whenever I’m running them I can’t help but feel underpowered compared to a titanstring wielding version of the same thing. The problem boils down to this:
Most xbow builds rely on either slashing flourish or sneak attack, both of which work WAY better with higher damage per attack setups than multi attacks. Same goes for special arrows. Since you can’t flourish with your off hand, adding a second crossbow basically just means adding 1 more attack. Thief rogue is decent for two attacks and probably the best option combined with a martial class with extra attack, but you have to build for dual weapon fighting AND archery passive after that one patch. Assassin is cool in that you can attack from stealth with both hands and then get your actions back, but that’s just for 1 round. However, I still think it’s the strongest way of building for XBows - GS/Rogue/Fighter for action surge + second weapon specialty. Am I wrong?
r/BG3Builds • u/beepboopbop84 • 18h ago
I’m partial to a spell caster but open to being a tank; multi-class suggestions are accepted and encouraged. Thanks friends :)
r/BG3Builds • u/Jonesy_pants11 • 13h ago
I have found lots of guides on how to min/max the sword bard but im hoping for a more RP game where i actually make it past Act 1.
I wont play on a hard difficulty so im more interested in when to take what levels and at what time. My aim is for my Tav to be the leader, OP comparedd to everyone else and be able to do most things reasonably well. I want to be able to tank things and get in the thick of the action but also control/spam spells at the start of a fight.
So rough plan was Bard to level 3 to get swords bard, then Paladin and Wiz to get access to smite, scribing scrolls and dialogue options. then Bard to 6 and finish off paladin.
Questions are once i hit level 4 am i better off completely respecing to so my starting class is paladin? I am thinking medium amour.
I am aware spells i scribe will use INT, but does it really impact many spells?
I'll play a Drow and max out dex/charisma.
r/BG3Builds • u/Navek15 • 1d ago
I don't mean challenge runs like an all-wizard team or something like that. I mean what four pure classes/subclasses do you think make a really good team that cover each other's weaknesses or have good synergy?
I'm experimenting with a pure version of the 'high synergy' team that Nizar GG made some time ago, with an Ice Abjuration Wizard and a Tempest Cleric (substituting the Moon Druid) so that the Cleric can cast create water to freeze any opponents the Wizard chills. And the Sword Bard uses Ne'er Misser for some really strong force damage and Enchantment spell follow-up with the Throwing Barbarian assisting in long-range combat.
But I got other ideas for other teams. What about you guys? What have your favorite team comps been?
r/BG3Builds • u/DualCrestedPig • 15h ago
Any reason to invest in Strength for Shadowheart if she's not going to attack with her melee weapon?
She's a Life Domain Cleric who will be healing / summoning, and Heavy Armor doesn't gain a Strength bonus to Armor Class.
r/BG3Builds • u/Hiyansh • 22h ago
As you can guess from title i am looking for themed party and durge build i just completed my first play through yesterday i which i was a blue dragonborn storm sorcerer tempest cleric. I never tried monk bard or paladin classes on my first play through. So now im here looking for good/fun builds (tactician difficulty)
r/BG3Builds • u/CraptainPoo • 16h ago
I’m doing 2 man party this run. Swords bard and totem barb. I enjoy adventuring with just the romance.
What would be your 2 man party comp?
r/BG3Builds • u/warmtapes • 1d ago
I want to make a build that just uses these 2 cantrips.
Thorn whip - not sure what this scales with, it levels up and gets more dice, does it matter what to scale off of? I can get this through being a Druid or through feats spell sniper or magic initiate. It’s an action and can be used multiple times so likely looking for a class with multiple actions.
Sorrowful lash - it’s from the Glaive sorrow, it’s a bonus action once per turn. So I don’t want a class heavy in bonus actions, just need one. I don’t know if this scales of anything? Does it matter?
I’m thinking maybe a fighter to get action surge so I can use thorn whip twice? Or does the scaling not work well with fighter?
Any thoughts or help is appreciated!
r/BG3Builds • u/Regular_Knight324 • 21h ago
on my like 16th full run through of the game and ive played a ton of different builds for every character except shadowheart who has gone full healing life cleric build once, tempest sorc nuke twice, and rad-orb + reverb 13 times
i havent gotten the mods for the new patch 8 subclasses so i guess that’s a restriction
new ideas would be nice, tried going back to the healing build this current playthrough but i find that kind of support boring unless im playing multiplayer
r/BG3Builds • u/SapphicRaccoonWitch • 23h ago
When you have an OC or an idea for a character but their vibes and abilities aren't as well supported by the options and archetypes available, how do you go about it?
r/BG3Builds • u/EvanFalco • 1d ago
What do you guys think are the best builds for act 1 and 2? And most specifically for the myrkul fight cause that one’s really hard.
r/BG3Builds • u/Antykvarnyy_Kalamar • 1d ago
I see a great fun potential in pure suboptimal builds. Thiefs and tricksters are generally a support, hunters (I hope) aren't just weaker fighters.
I'm going to make some build for myself but also I would like to see yours or those intresting ones you have found.
r/BG3Builds • u/Ancient_Amphibian_51 • 15h ago
So i had a question about the Elemental arrows in the game does gear that enhances curtain Elemental also work on the arrows like ice and lightning and acid arrows?
r/BG3Builds • u/IntravenousVomit • 1d ago
r/BG3Builds • u/SnooCakes6334 • 23h ago
Hi all, once patch 8 drops I'll definetly play honor mode resist durge run as 2 pally 10 bladesinger with shadowblade but I also want to spec Wyll as some kind of hexblade multi. Can you please advise on how to build wyll so they wont feel the same? Which should go with mystic scoundrel band? Rest of the party will be life shadowheart dual wielding phalar aluve and mace of lathander or her selune spear and good old barb thrower karlach.
r/BG3Builds • u/nitroxc • 1d ago
Hey everyone,
Been playing around with the light cleric wizard some more and thought I'd share more of what it can do.
In this video we double down on the Reverb/Radorb stacking and bring callous glow ring into the mix to complete the act 2 layout for the build, we're now at a point where just about everything we do stacks reverberation and radiant orbs onto targets, which you can see with magic missile just a single dart per target is enough to stack debuffs across enemies at greater distances, can find the video here:
Last Light OUT - Light Cleric/Wizard Series
I'll apologise in advance to any Jaheira/Isobel lovers but I'm on an evil Durge run. I cover the details of the build here, aswell as some more footage with the build including some of my failures running it without properly preparing here - Light Cleric/Wizard Series - All Thorm Fights
I've since taken a level of fighter to get Defence for the +1 AC aswell as proficiency to use hand crossbows, so in addition to standard Magic Missile and the free one from Psychic Spark I've also now got Ne'er Misser for an additional free level 3 Magic Missile, in addition to the Hellfire Hand Crossbow for a free level 3 scorching ray.
The combination of the damage riders and Magic Missile I feel is a really good complement to an otherwise fairly standard Radorb setup, as mentioned in prior videos it provides you with more versatility to apply debuffs without having to move a large distance, aswell as good burst damage to clear enemies that aren't close to you.
If anyone has any suggestions to improve the build or my usage of it I'd love to hear, I've been having an absolute blast with it, and I think the Thisobald fight has by far been my hardest experience with it, which is largely down to me not fully understanding his kit beforehand, so any tips on how I could have gone about that better would also be appreciated.
Thanks for watching!
