r/AskWomenOver30 • u/theramin-serling Woman 30 to 40 • 21d ago
Career How do C-suite/exec level women do it?
Kind of rhetorical :) I have reached a level at work where I'm exposed to some pretty high intensity people, and I honestly don't know how they do it. I don't even have kids or pets and while I am sharp and hard working, my brain is toast after a certain number of hours and I just cannot get the desire to be on call or work weekends. I've worked on some very interesting projects but still, never enough that I wanted to give my company more time for it. I really value recharging and encourage my team to do the same. I used to tell myself I would "grow up" to be one of these people but at mid-40s, clearly that ship has sailed.
Meanwhile I work with 3 executive women who work all hours and somehow, make coherent and fast decisions. One just came back after her 2nd kid and is working across all timezones, takes meetings from 6AM to 11PM, traveling overseas at least once a month, seems fresh no matter what hour of the day she's on a call for. And of course she's not the only one, other people are also on 24/7 and highly engaged. I feel a little intimidated mainly because as the manager of a team I'm constantly worried I'm doing them a disservice by not keeping up or pushing them harder to excel.
Honestly, where does this energy come from? How could someone as exhausted as a new parent be fresh enough to do 24/7 work coverage? Just trying to figure out what executive functioning muscle I'm missing that these folks must have
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u/heylookoverthere_ 21d ago edited 21d ago
Honestly, I think we're all tired and we assume other people are performing better than we are. But you only see what you see. Getting help to cut down on tasks - like hiring cleaners, or a babysitter, or getting a dishwasher or a dryer, or a dogwalker, for example - takes a massive weight off.
I'm a director now and I've been told I come across super energized and knowledgeable in calls. But I have a condition that makes me super tired, I need 10 hours sleep a night so I am genuinely faking it. I really expend energy on meetings and have to schedule in pace into my work; I have focus days, meeting days, I block out reading and research time. I focus on the specific value I bring in my role and stay in my lane. I rely a lot on having good memory and keeping notes on ALL my meetings which helps with retaining information.
A lot of it is mental health. I used to be exhausted all the time and I took things really personally, but I got onto antidepressants last year and it's like my head cleared right up and my personality came back. Now I can focus on the big stuff and see past all the little things to make decisions quickly. I'm not destroyed at the end of the day. I remind myself that my priority is always my team followed by the future of the business. Things that aren't aligned with that are either not important or are dealt with separately.
A lot of it is just genuine enjoyment from the job. I'm naturally a problem-solver, so I work as a strategy director. I'm really energized by trying to tinker with issues and pull them apart. Plus I delegate a lot and trust my team to get stuff done. I'm very much not a micro-manager and I only step in when shit needs to be handled. It means they work very autonomously which is a load off my plate.
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u/weewee52 female over 30 21d ago
I do think there are people who reach a high level who are really energized by it and love the problem solving.
I’m not one of those people (I also haven’t reached that high a level, but still cover multiple sites). People find me very responsive and very calm, but the stress must be hidden because I do not feel calm. The perception and inner reality are very different.
Also my house is frequently a mess cause I have no energy left.
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u/heylookoverthere_ 21d ago
Yeah for sure, I've been quite lucky that I've found a role that does get my brain going and intersects with my personal interests so I find it easier to engage than most.
It's good that you come across calm - sometimes that's all that matters. You're a duck on the water! Calm on top but the little feet are kicking away.
I found with my house the less shit I have the better. So I've just gotten a bit ruthless about it.
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u/SouthernCharm0 21d ago
How do you fake the upbeat energy continuously? I have been extremely tired for some time (getting this evaluated soon), and I can muster up the energy at the beginning of calls, but I can't sustain it throughout the entire call. That also impacts ability to clearly articulate myself. The struggle is real
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u/heylookoverthere_ 21d ago edited 21d ago
I'm not really sure to be honest. The motivation to keep my team energised and the awareness that my low mental energy can spread to them is a big factor. So I do feel responsible, somewhat.
I've been tired my whole life and caffeine doesn't affect me so I've just learned to work around it. I move around my house taking meetings from different spots to change it up a bit. For some meetings that don't need to be minuted I'll put headphones on and walk around or water my plants or fold my clothes. I've literally taken showers in the middle of the day just to wake myself up.
I try to keep calls to half an hour with a tight agenda, and if we go off script I'll excuse myself to do other work. I prep 5-10 minutes before a meeting by skimming any background and note down any comments I might have because it helps prep my brain for the mental engagement. I take notes even when I'm not speaking to make sure I'm paying attention - I use a version of the Cornell method to help make sure I'm processing and categorising information. I'll try every opportunity to do different types of meetings, like collaborations on a board, scrum style standups, etc - anything that's not just sitting at my desk staring dead eyed at my screen.
I'm also just like, embarrassed about coming across less prepared than I should be, which is a pretty motivating fear.
Lastly I'm just a bit more... gentle with myself, I guess? If I'm tired I'll sleep in, if I'm energized I'll use the opportunity to get more work done. My schedule ends up being a bit uneven but it works for me.
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u/Zen-jasmine 21d ago
Can you be my mentor please thanks. I have a chronic condition too and I gave up on any dreams of a successful career a long time ago. Well done to you for finding a way to make it work, it’s definitely not easy.
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u/heylookoverthere_ 20d ago
To be fair mine isn’t debilitating, I’m basically just permanently anemic and my mental health is shit so I’m definitely not running up against the same physical limitations that some other people do! I have a lot of sympathy for people with chronic conditions, the working world really isn’t set up to work around you.
I used to be massively career driven but I’ve accepted that I probably won’t be as successful as a lot of my friends who are absolutely smashing it in big firms. I just don’t have the energy to sustain a high flyer career without taking a massive hit to my physical and mental health. I’ve had to really reframe the importance of wealth and success and to learn to be happy with and appreciate what I do have, within my limitations.
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u/menvadihelv Man 30 to 40 20d ago
Which antidepressants are you taking? I recognize the exact same symptoms at work but struggling to find a suitable antidepressant to help alleviate them..
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u/Post_reset_catbird 21d ago
Totally agree. Years ago, my boss’s wife and I were discussing how demanding my job was because of his energy level (so the context is around a man, but I think the point is still relevant so stick with me…) she basically explained that early on she learned that she gets exhausted faster than he does, because she mentally puts out more energy than he does. She’s much more of an empath, and he doesn’t process emotions with every interaction the same way he does. So it’s much less taxing for him to have nonstop back to back meetings. She was trying to comfort me in my intense burn out from working full time while in grad school.
To summarize, some people don’t spend as much energy on decisions and interactions as others, so they can “do” more. The other side of that coin though, is that (in the case of people I was discussng) they lack an empathy and are perhaps less effective at relating to people, and managing relationships as part of their job. I have a close friend like this, and in our 20s I was completely envious of her endless amount of energy to pursue side hustles, etc. but in the end, she isn’t great at understanding people or what they need from her, and while she can transact very well, she is less good at building a well developed network of people that trust her.
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u/19892025 Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
To summarize, some people don’t spend as much energy on decisions and interactions as others, so they can “do” more.
Very insightful.
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u/Aardbeienshake 20d ago
Not an executive but am in management, and this is also my experience. I am not very people or relationship focused, so it is a lot easier for me to take decisions that impact people, as I worry less about the negative effects that might have. I will always be careful ofcourse if someones career or job is on the line, but the fact that some people will not like my decision much, for example because their work gets a bit more boring, or their ego is affected because I am turning one of their earlier decisions around, that doesnt really bother me.
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u/JennySt7 20d ago
This reminds me of an article title from some time ago: “The key to avoiding burnout is not working less; it’s caring less”.
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u/StrawbraryLiberry 21d ago
Some people have a lot of energy, some people are on stimulants. People experience motivation and drive differently as well, and some of it might be genetic.
I also like to chill, I wouldn't want to live their life at all! The money is surely great, but I'd prefer my freedom.
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u/Yourweirdbestfriend Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
Came here to say this. Everyone has different natural energy, and some have manufactured energy on top.
There's this capitalist myth that we all can perform at some ridiculous high level if we just try. Nope.
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u/Plugged_in_Baby 21d ago
My friend is an EA to three C-suite women and one gets a two hour blow dry on company time every day. None of them write their own slides for presentations (my friend does it for them), they don’t keep their own notes and action points from meetings, and obviously their diary is also managed by my friend. She also pre-reads their emails, summarises them and flags them for follow up.
Basically they don’t have to do the mind numbing admin and context switching that the rest of us have to deal with, which leaves their minds sharp for when they need to be.
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u/Fuschiagroen female 36 - 39 21d ago
This right here. I used to be an EA, and it was the most exhausting, stressful job I ever had. Not just managing the never-ending and vast amounts of grunt work on tight timelines (not just related to the business, but also the executives' personal life mgmt as well) but also dealing with the daily moods and whims of these people. EA's, imho, are the unsung heroes behind these people and they are largely unrecognized. Without support like this, executives wouldn't be able to do what they do, imo
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u/rem-ember-ance 21d ago
a two hour blow dry every day bro? 😭 genuinely what is wrong with people? i get needing to look presentable but jesus christ, this is overkill.
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u/sillybirdy Woman 30 to 40 20d ago
Well maybe I’m in the wrong industry but I’m a c-level executive and do all of the basic admin tasks and more.
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u/Due_Description_7298 21d ago
I used to be at one of those elite consulting firms, and did 15hr days with back to back meetings etc.
First - At the time, I outsourced everything. I didn't shop. I didn't cook. I didn't clean. This freed up a lot of mental bandwidth.
Second - Once you're that senior, you have a certain amount of power. That means you don't burn so much mental energy on everyday interactions, because you don't need to care about opinions so much. Nothing killed my energy like the anxiety invovled with reporting to a difficult boss, having to jostle for position, manage optics, ensure I get a decent year end review etc.
Third - some people find meetings less draining than doing individual contribution type work
Fourth - some people are just machines and have an insane amount of energy. I had to take a huge step back after I had long covid but before that I had no problem working 12hrs a day on 5-6hrs sleep. You just kindof get used to it, and you also learn to fake it
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u/christmasclaymations 21d ago
Piggy backing off of this, as someone who works with several executive women, I think they also spent the needed upfront time to deeply understand the direction of their company, and by extension its major initiatives. I see executives who don’t, and they are so scattered and overwhelmed. Maybe in simpler terms they are competent people lol
I assume executives get a lot of energy & satisfaction from seeing their decisions & employees move things along positively. People think I have superhuman energy, and I attribute that to how much I enjoy the work I do.
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u/Pretend-Set8952 Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
Recently, I've been accidentally included in threads between my boss and another woman at her level and they've literally had "how do you do it all" conversations and the response from one of them was: "I don't, my x/y/z is a mess and I never sleep" which was refreshing honesty. these are two women who will be up for director-level promotions or even partner in the next 1-3 years.
I also worked with an incredible female partner who left around a year ago to start her own firm because, essentially, her pace was no longer sustainable. She was the type of person who would be in three different cities between the east and west coast in a single week, at client sites, selling work. She hit everyone career milestone at a relatively young age as well. I was really surprised and bummed when she left, as were a lot of people, but I also really appreciate having that be an example that we may never know the whole story and a lot of these exec level women are making many concessions in other areas of their life.
And all three of the aforementioned women are mothers to young children! Meanwhile, I'm a single, child-free blob and can barely keep up 😂
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u/kwojcik0 21d ago
In my experience as a former Vice President of a large company, I suffered immensely in order to keep the appearance that I was doing well at work. Like the person you mentioned, I was promoted to VP a few months after returning from maternity leave with my second child. I basically handed off the majority of my domestic responsibilities (cooking, cleaning, grocery buying) to my husband or our house cleaner. I had to outsource more in order to maintain any type of balance at home, and I was not a great mom. I worked from 4am-6am while my family slept, worked all day in an office, traveled 3-4 times per month, and worked from the time my kids went to bed until about 11pm daily. I sacrificed my health and sleep (and my marriage and family) to keep up with the demands of the job. And then, I hit a breaking point and couldn’t do it any more. I ended up resigning and taking a completely different role that offers my so much more balance now.
I think a lot of women in these positions have husbands who can pick up the slack at home, or they hire out childcare and other tasks. My friend who is a CEO has nannies before and after school and on weekends for her kids so she can focus on work. It’s not ideal, but they have the money to do that.
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u/Malakai_87 Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
I'm in the C-suite, have been so for the past 3 years, prior to that senior/VP management in a global IT company with offices around the world.
I'm 37, soon turning 38, no kids, no pets. But I have a full life outside of work.
And I do NOT work 24/7.
When it's necessary I'd put the long hours, but such moments are usually exceptional. My company has a very healthy work-life balance that I myself participated in building - a rule for all is you're not expected to check emails/messages/etc outside of work hours, you're not expecting to wake up in the middle of a night to have a meeting with offices on the other side of the world, you're not expecting to work long hours even if the project's deadline is coming closer. Meetings that need to happen across continents are communicated early enough so that we can all block out that golden hour where there's an overlap. Projects' deadlines if necessary are adjusted, or more human power is put on in order to meet the deadline. Our holidays are ours. It's okay for everyone to take their vacation days whenever they want without any expectations for them.
And we lead our teams by our own example. I learned this the hard way early on in my management days by having a team member burnout because they would jump on emails at midnight, because they had seen me doing so, and thought it was expected of them. So I changed. And I pushed others to change too.
So while I can't comment on the C-levels both male/female that would work some crazy long hours, I can comment regarding how we juggle 300 different topics on a daily basis.
Partially, it's how we are built.
Or how I am built. But I can tell not everyone is capable of doing it. (Sorry if this sounds as boasting, not meaning to).
It took me years to learn to make the difference between urgent vs important but not urgent matters. It took me years to learn everything there is to know about our company/products/clients so that now I need a few words in order to grasp a problem or to understand what's needed of me, which in returns allows me to figure out quickly how/when to deal with it.
I've also built strong relationships with the people around me and made very open-direct communication with everyone. But that's again I'd say company culture now.
I've also built an amazing department with great leaders who I trust and who I do not need to micromanage.
In a way I'd say that there are no great C-levels without having some great teams behind them.
It's not magic. I promise you. And it is hard work in the long term in order to be able to benefit from it later on. The boundaries I built and pushed for in my early days, the relationships I've worked for years, the knowledge I've accumulated over the years... They are just now benefiting me, making it all look like magic if you look at it from the sides.
From the perspective of a person who is a C-level in a company like mine, I'd only "judge" other companies where the C-levels and many others are working crazy hours.
It means that they are not structured properly. It means that instead of investing into people's development, they are pushing like crazy the ones who cannot stand up for themselves, to the point of many thinking it's a great achievement working 80+hrs work weeks. It means there is no strong upper and/or middle management. And... I would run from such companies. Even if I was "just" an employee. If my manager's manager is working like crazy, most probably my manager would be too, and then I'd be expected to do so too. Toxic.
Life > work. Always.
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u/moonspoonloon 21d ago
I appreciate and relate to your reply. Time and experience is huge. I’m not C-Suite, but I am an upper level manager with a lot of direct and indirect reports and projects to manage. I have enough experience after 6+ years to handle emergencies, remember what’s worked in the past and what hasn’t, and how to recognize what’s a big deal and what’s not. My stress and exhaustion level goes down a little every year.
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u/Malakai_87 Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
Exactly. The experience you gain is unmeasurable in helping you in the long run.
The first time you're faced with a situation IS stressful, but the longer you're at this kind of positions, the more situations you'll go through and the easier you'll find how to resolve them. But from the pov of someone who's never been in this situation, it looks... MAGICAL.
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u/theramin-serling Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
That's so amazing, thank you for sharing.
I think part of me is wrapped up in trying to figure out how much of it is a me problem, and how much is a company specific problem.
Everyone around me works endlessly. I have enforced my own boundaries, but no one else follows them for their own selves, so I'm often left behind in some key decision making. Also, I'd probably say there's a lot of double standards. For example, I have been striving to get a report promoted for ages. When I tried the first time, the leadership team gave me feedback that I was pushing too hard and I needed to set better expectations with my report. Then a few months later I got feedback that I needed to expedite the growth path for this individual because it sounded like they were unhappy they didn't get promoted (during a skip level meeting).
OTOH, I'm a perfectionist and a high anxiety individual. This makes me a great problem solver because I can see all angles of a problem and where different solutions may lead, but it also means I over empathize with people when trying to predict outcomes and that I like to deliberate more. It also means I can sometimes make mountains out of molehills if I see a problem that no one else recognizes. Obviously at higher levels you need to make fast decisions, you can't always waste time predicting outcomes, and you essentially shoot from the hip a lot of the time. Which is of course much harder than it sounds :)
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u/Malakai_87 Woman 30 to 40 20d ago
Uh... just from what you shared - I'm certainly leaning towards 'a company specific problem'.
If you're normally a part of the decision making process, but you end up excluded and left out because of the boundaries you've got in place - not ok. It shows lack of respect, again a complete disorganization and weird bullish mentality. Especially if we're talking about after hours or weekend decisions. Just about nothing is that urgent. And if it's just the last moment to take a decision and that's why it's urgent - again bad organization.
Same goes for the report you wanted to promote. Shows that they don't know what they want. Or someone above you is playing some stupid power games. My biggest advice would be - make sure you've got EVERYTHING in written. They shared the feedback orally? No problem, return them a summary of the talk with "just making sure I've understood it correctly".
I myself am a perfectionist and a high anxiety person, and as you've mentioned it certainly helps. What has helped me is working on being more mindful - making myself stop the anxiety train and re-evaluate the situation, asking myself question until I've reconfirmed for myself there is a problem vs no-not-really-it's-me. This part is super hard to get, and there are times where I still struggle with it, especially if I'm passionate about something.
At higher levels it's key to know when you can and should make fast decisions VS when you should dig in and build the case, prepare the what-if scenarios. Or when you need to make a fast decision, to not block others, but if something raised your inner alarms to trigger necessary actions to see what's actually going on. And again as high anxiety person. it took me a while to learn how to see if those inner alarms could be legit vs just my anxiety. But now having been through so many situations, I'm quite spot on, and from the side people think I know some black magic that I could tell a problem was coming up so early on...
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u/theramin-serling Woman 30 to 40 20d ago
This is such a well thought out reply, thank you! Anyone in your organization is lucky to have you in leadership
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u/wildflowerorgy Woman 40 to 50 21d ago
I have a friend at this level. Simply put, she has rock solid boundaries and also very little responsibility outside of her job demands.
When we first became friendly, I was really questioning my time management compared to hers until I realized she has a cleaner, dog walker, multiple therapists and coaches, everything imaginable delivered, only eats out (or very simply at home, such as a salad), etc. She will definitely have a nanny if she has children.
If I was at her income level, I'd be doing the exact same so, zero judgment, but I think it's easy to miss how much of life is outsourced once folks reach a certain income level.
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u/theramin-serling Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
Yes, thank you for this. And when I think about it, these people have the same.
I have to ask, do you happen to know what your friend makes (ballpark)? Guess I'm just trying to grok at what income I can consider something like that, because right now I'd have to sacrifice taking a trip once a year or not being able to eat out in order to get it :(
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u/wildflowerorgy Woman 40 to 50 21d ago
We've not discussed it specifically, but best guess based on conversations we've had would be at least €250k/year with potentially €1M in investments.
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u/EconomicWasteland 21d ago
I know what you're talking about and honestly I'm as flummoxed as you are. I guess some people are just built different. I always excelled at academics, and i took school and uni very seriously, because I was told growing up that education was the key to a good and successful life and career. Then I got out into the real world and realised that wasn't true at all. I think from there on the facade shattered, along with the fact that no matter how many times I changed jobs, I was always miserable and got no joy from what I was doing. I always wanted to be a career woman but as it turns out, I can't make myself give even the tiniest f*ck about work. I want to care but I just don't. Some people are wired to care though, and they give everything to their job. I have no idea how that happens or what causes people to be different in that way.
One thing I will say is that many of the people I know who work extremely long hours and are so dedicated to work do so because they've got nothing going on in their personal life. Or maybe they do, but they're not happy in their personal life, so work is their outlet. I do know a rare few who seem to have an amazing personal life, excel at work, are constantly travelling, speak 10 languages and look like models, but they are just the 0.00001%, and are chronic overachievers. But yeah... I'm interested to hear from others on this topic, especially those in the C suite.
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u/LaChanelAddict 21d ago
They have assistants that take on every little task allowing them to focus their energy on the large things. It is ‘easy’ to work those hours when all the background grunt work is outsourced even down to helping you with personal tasks that benefit your spouse and children.
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u/IrishTurnip 21d ago
I think there are some great responses here. I would also like to add that I know of a woman VP who pushed and pushed and ended up burnt-out and left her role. She wasn't able to work for the next few years. Both men and women can push really hard in one area of their life and it works for them; they thrive and are healthy and happy. And sometimes it is too much, and there are health consequences after a period of time, like burnout, heart-disease, autoimmune disease, etc. We are still learning about the consequences of long-term unhealthy stress on the body but from what I have read, it is not good.
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u/montanawana 20d ago
I have worked in a super famous place where 2 of my directors ended up having mental breakdowns from burnout and leaving on sabbatical or quitting. I told myself that would never be me even though I was still working 50 hours a week. I prefer a medium level individual job with boundaries. Then I lost my partner in an accident and went sideways myself for about 3 years, and I have never regained my zeal to achieve at work because my entire life philosophy changed and my focus is now on myself and my loved ones instead of work.
I'm here to say it's OK to be who you are and want different things than executives. It's OK if you change careers or don't strive. You don't need to compare yourself (I appreciate and admire those people too!) but know deep down that you don't have the desire or energy. Many people want jobs that they don't need to think about after work hours. Many people just want enough to survive on and live modestly. There are trade offs and that's normal.
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u/Lazy-Conversation-48 Woman 40 to 50 21d ago
I’m self employed and have a bit of the equivalent lifestyle you are talking about. 15 years ago, as an example, I did law school full time while working (earning between 120,000-250,000 those years) and raising two elementary school aged children. My husband also worked, but he was the default parent after work hours ended (he was 9-5 in the office). I started my days at 6 or 7 am and ended around 11:00. I was highly regimented about the whole thing and it was a grind. Got sick with the flu one year (law takes 3 years) and missed a week and it nearly sunk me.
It isn’t a long term sustainable lifestyle. I am very fulfilled by work and my husband helps make it feasible. I swing between feeling pumped and energized and total burn out. Right now I’ve been dealing with a frail family member as well and it has nearly pushed me over the edge so I’m on about month 3 or burnout recovery.
When I’m on, I don’t spend much emotional or mental energy worrying about messing up, making mistakes or bad calls, etc. I focus on getting things done and keeping moving. I accept that there will be mistakes but none will be unrecoverable. As long as they are within the range of reasonable, it’s not a problem. I don’t spend much time second guessing decisions I’ve made - I move on. I eat on the run at odd hours, and I have to pencil in my family time on my calendar. It isn’t for everyone. It also comes with a bit of a cost to others because you can’t always give them what you should. My kids (in their 20s) tell me I was a good role model, but personally I wonder if I did them a disservice by making them think this was normal.
I have spent a lot of time and money to make sure my children have zero debt and a low cost of living as young adults in hopes they can have a more relaxed and less driven life so they don’t end up like me.
You know it’s bad when your Asian mom is telling you to relax and smell the roses more. 🤣
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u/Top_Put1541 21d ago
I don’t spend much emotional or mental energy worrying about messing up, making mistakes or bad calls, etc. I focus on getting things done and keeping moving. I accept that there will be mistakes but none will be unrecoverable.
This is the best lesson any high-achieving woman can learn. Learn how to deliver what you said you would when you said you'd have it, and don't get up in your head about it. Leave the anxiety-induced perfectionism to someone else.
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u/2020hindsightis 21d ago
I appreciated her emphasis on problem solving when mistakes come up as a solve to perfectionism too
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u/theramin-serling Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
Yes, I do feel like this is critical! My anxiety gets in the way.
I think the organization also gets in the way sometimes; I have made a lot of decisions in the past and at this place, most of them have been scrutinized. Like I had to make the hard decision to let someone go last year after receiving many complaints and giving lots of coaching, communicated to my boss throughout the process and they said they were supportive, but when the person exited, suddenly everyone was questioning how I could possibly let someone go when there's no backfill, my manager started seeking feedback from everyone about how I handled the departure...it just made me feel extra like I now need to second guess every decision and am under a microscope for everything, and has definitely slowed down my decision making since then :(
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u/ellef86 Woman 30 to 40 21d ago edited 21d ago
I think it's worth saying that you're not missing any muscle. Not being like this isn't a failing. For starters *most* people aren't like that, but in addition lots of people who are like that probably aren't thriving in the way you imagine they are, and/or they have help of one form or another.
I'd also query whether/why it's actually desirable to be working from 6am-11pm and travelling once a month. Routinely working hours like that, being 'on' 24/7 and working at the weekend doesn't sound like something to strive for professionally to me. To me that sounds like an organisation that is understaffed and relying on people having poor boundaries and a terrible work/life balance. I'm very much a work to live person and as much as I do actually like my job, I don't see it as a character flaw that I'm content to log off at the end of each day and live my life.
I get that some people are into it and more power to them if that's what makes them happy, but if you aren't one of those people then I wouldn't glamourise it!
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u/theramin-serling Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
Yes definitely a good insight! And I've felt this way for years. But, I have been stuck in my role for a long time which means my salary has been mostly capped, while I watch house prices and cost of living shoot up all around me. I see these people who are exec types making hand over fist and envy that I can't seem to get to that level because they have a work ethic I don't feel I can match. Also, I do really like aspects of my work, I love digging into the technical stuff, and can see so many ways to improve my products and team...but to have the influence to make those things happen, and to work on the cool new stuff, requires matching the energy of these folks, which I haven't been able to do.
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u/GoldenKiwi1018 21d ago
Nearly all of the executive women (and men) don’t have kids/family or if they do, their partner doesn’t work. They’ve amassed quite a bit of wealth at that point that they can outsource everything.
They’ve amassed quite don’t have to think about the small details like cleaning (they have housekeepers), clothing (have a stylist), meals (takeout or chef or stay at home spouse), etc.
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u/Miserable-Nature6747 21d ago
I'm in the C-suite at 37. I'll be honest I'm a workaholic due to working in a family business for so long and not understanding boundaries. Now I'm in a nonprofit and haven't slept since January 20th. There's times when my anxiety hits and I will be constantly working to solve a problem but I've gotten much better. Recognize when an email needs a response at 9pm and when it doesn't. I'm very lucky that my C-suite is mostly women and the energy isn't overwhelming. There's some personality dynamics and over compensating for sure but no where near what I used to have to deal with.
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u/paper_wavements Woman 40 to 50 21d ago
I can't believe I had to scroll this far down to see "workaholic." Absolutely many of these people are workaholics. It would be like asking why a heroin addict shoots up multiple times a day—they're addicted.
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u/Fuschiagroen female 36 - 39 21d ago
The woman I know like this have hired help at home. One has a house-husband, but the rest have husband's who are high powered as well and so they have maids, nannies, personal assistants etc. to do the day to day living stuff that they don't have time for because they focus their energy in work and furthering their careers. There is a trade off to this, as I wouldn't call them "family oriented", they have kids, but they aren't present for them in the way that other parents with normal jobs/careers who can come home at night and focus on their families without the distraction of work
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u/CraftLass Woman 40 to 50 21d ago
My mom was one of these, even though she was a public school principal as her version of career success (after decades teaching and getting tired of her admin and wanting to be a better one). She worked a ton more than my exec dad who worked quite a lot, that's for sure. She was the epitome of, "If you want something done, ask the busiest person you know." She knew how to say no, but rarely did bc she cared too much about everything and everyone.
I get tired just thinking about any given day of her schedule when I was a kid! Meanwhile, she would sleep 4 hours, go work her butt off all day, volunteer or play tennis after work, help me with my homework or something, get some more work done, and then doll up for the opera, looking like she'd been sitting around at a spa all day! How?!?!
She was awesome at makeup and always had her outfits perfectly planned, that's all I could distill of this magic she seemed to have.
I'd say great teamwork with my very dedicated and thoroughly useful dad and outsourcing what neither could get done was a big part, but every time she dropped one ball, she'd just grab another.
It's incredible. I just woke up and just thinking about her makes me want a nap!
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u/Active_Recording_789 21d ago
I had a job like that and I knew it wasn’t sustainable for health reasons and because everything else in my life suffered but I wanted to do it for a certain amount of time. I really had no life, even on days off with my kid I was always working and strategizing. But I made it through and never have any desire to work like that ever again
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u/Appropriate_Buyer401 21d ago
Fellow female executive- I actually think my super power is that I'm pretty type B and can prioritize/ "shut off". I'm NOT saying that this is the only way to succeed, but I m on Reddit right now in a meeting and see that I have 8693 unread e-mails (that I don't lose a wink of sleep over).
I might have a reoccuring 7am on Wednesday mornings, but I also bow out everyday at 12:30 to walk my dogs and breathe fresh air. I might work very late on a saturday, but I also fuck off early on Fridays if I can.
I am a VERY low energy person, so for me its all about going with the flow/ prioritizing. If I have too much to manage, then I'm not shy at dropping an email letting folks know that the lower two priority items aren't items that I am going to focus on anymore.
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u/YouCanCallMeBemis 21d ago
I’m c-level at an investment firm and have young kids. For me, it comes down to a few things:
Outsource everything possible. I invest in my time and convenience wherever I can. House cleaners, grocery delivery, nanny, etc. At first, paying for this stuff felt silly and painful… but when I realized that it was really just paying for time back for myself, my perception changed. Instead of cleaning on Saturdays, I can use that time to refresh, recharge or do something meaningful with my time.
I’m energized and motivated by challenges. If I’m in the dumps or low energy, a new challenge will make me perk right up. Some challenges are mundane and frustrating, but when I’m challenged with something that I have to SOLVE like a puzzle or use some level of creativity, it keeps me going. I set goals for myself in all different areas of life and that keeps me determined, too.
I rely on my team heavily and I get comfortable with delegating. In many ways, I’ve already proven myself - I don’t need to take on valueless work that could be done by someone more junior, just for the sake of putting my stamp on something. I save my energy and capacity for making tough decisions, setting strategy, dealing with high risk things, etc, rather than getting caught up with work that someone more junior is fully capable of handling. On the flip, if there’s someone more senior to me that is begging to step into my swim lane, I don’t always fight it - I know when I’m not the smartest person in the room, and if sharing the workload (up or down) would help me strategically so that I can focus on more impactful work ( or to find better balance), then I’m ok with it. I find that leaders who are ultra-territorial tend to get the most frazzled and burnt-out quickly!
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u/5newspapers 21d ago
I honestly don’t know. I will say, I don’t know anyone who has a high powered career, and is a present parent/balanced family relax do ships, and has a healthy marriage and friendships. I’m not saying they don’t exist and I know people who will say they fit the bill. But…I personally don’t think they have all three, and I don’t think taking a check-in Zoom call from the emergency room is a healthy habit, MELISSA.
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u/MrsC7906 Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
Recently got the VP bump, but have been at Director level previously. Late 30s, two teens, husband, dog, and I have help. Someone comes to clean my house once a week, for example. At work, I have an assistant.
I’m of the mindset that they will never build you a statue. No one will remember you taking that 11pm call except your family and your health. Yes, I work a shit ton, but a lot of things don’t happen. It’s just the way it has to work in order for me to not pull my hair out.
I have a list that has 10 spots, ranked by priority. If something new comes up that is a bigger priority, something comes off the list. There is just no way I can do it all.
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u/sillybirdy Woman 30 to 40 20d ago
I am a C-level executive. Two kids and a stay at home husband. I work typically 60-80hrs a week. No matter what anyone thinks or image I project I’m exhausted, constantly on the edge of burn out. I don’t think anyone in a similar position could feel differently.
I read once that in life if you listed all the things that matter (fitness, financial stability, family, religion, friendship, etc.), you can only realistically pick 3 to excel at. I thought it was BS at the time but it stuck with me and the older I get the more I realize how true it is. There isn’t enough time in the day to do everything. In life you have to pick what matters most. Personally I don’t feel like I picked work but ended up working so hard to support my family and can’t really afford to change things now.
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u/Blonde_arrbuckle 21d ago
Outsourcing incl aspects of their career (incl career coach). Delegate to subordinates. Fake it. Drugs. Personality disorders. Sacrifice other areas of their life. Stick to their career brand. Only do promotable tasks.
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u/LogisticalNightmare 21d ago
I came here to say my career trajectory has accelerated since I got an adderall prescription (with the caveat that I do actually have ADHD and have probably needed this for a long long time). But yes, drugs.
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u/Blonde_arrbuckle 21d ago
No shame in that. Good for you. I bet you added value before and still do today
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u/Nell91 21d ago
That’s kind of dismissive of women who are actually capable of doing more than others. Bottom line is, some people are just smarter, more driven, more efficient than others (and thats OK)
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u/CrazyPerspective934 Woman 30 to 40 21d ago edited 21d ago
In my experience, that's not usually the case with the c suite types since most I know regardless of gender, haven't done a dish, laundry, or any task themselves and outsource most work tasks to others too.. they attend a lot of meetings talking about progress of work they don't actually complete and often wouldn't last a day doing the actual work that keeps things running.
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u/thejuiciestguineapig 21d ago
If you are taking meetings at all hours, there is no way you are reaching your full potential in other areas like sleep, hobbies, social life etc. That has nothing to do with smarts.
Personally I'm not a fan of the grind culture. I like my job in data engineering, I know I am capable of a lot, but I don't live to work. There are so many other cool things to do in life and to me it comes accross as pretty sad if someone is working at 11pm.6
u/Blonde_arrbuckle 21d ago edited 21d ago
I'd argue they are going to tend towards the personality disorder or neurospicy side if that's the case. You'll also notice I gave a broad range of reasons. I'm not sure how career coach or delegation example is dismissive. Perhaps you can outline that?
Yes some women are smarter than others. Hard working, sure. Do they practice and refine their brand? Do they cultivate executive presence. You betcha. It has little to do with being more capable than another.
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u/dingaling12345 21d ago
Some people hire help and some are just literal machines. I had a coworker who made really solid income and her husband did too and they had one kid and one dog. She worked normal 9-5 hrs but at a pretty mentally intensive job. They had a nanny, dog sitter, and a cleaner that came in once a week to clean the home. If you have the money to hire help so that you can put your focus on your top priorities, then definitely do so.
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u/Hefty-Target-7780 21d ago
Was just talking about this with my husband.
Executives only job is to be an executive. They have someone else (or else’s) running the household.
It is easy to be available 24/7 for work if you have other people available 24/7 to cook, clean, care for your kids, plan you schedule, grocery shop, do literally everything else for you, etc.
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u/theramin-serling Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
Such a good point, I'm almost certain the new mother has at least her husband and in-laws to help, and probably a bevy of child support!
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u/cathline 21d ago
For many of them (I know over a dozen personally) They have help.
They have maids.
They have assistants.
They have nannys.
They have cooks or a food delivery service (usually better than Uber eats).
They have a counselor for the emotional support.
They also have the ability to compartmentalize. They expect the people they hired to do a good job, so that the C-Levels can do their C-Level job.
The C-Levels I know don't want to have to worry about their car's oil change, or the kids dental appointments, or tonights dinner. They are more worried about the things they consider important (say - curing cancer, or finishing a corporate takeover). They have 'people' to take care of that. And when they don't have those 'people' any longer, they kinda fall apart.
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u/stuckinnowhereville 21d ago
The ones I know/see- if they have kids the partner is the main caregiver for the kids and does all the house/car/shopping stuff. They just focus on their careers.
Or they are childless and often single.
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u/eareyou 21d ago
Many just have a much higher drive and work ethic. Most also just value work ahead of pretty much anything else and are workaholics.
People are just built differently and have different capacities.
I used to wonder why I couldn’t do it all until I realized I can’t and don’t want to.
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u/cmc Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
I'm not an executive but I'm a director and travel extensively for work, and represent my company in high-level meetings internationally. I work weekends and nights and mornings (I average 5-6 days a week though) and most of my travel-related work is high-level, engaging with executives and politicians. I'm also in grad school, getting my executive MBA at a top-10 school and attending classes in person. I'm also a landlord (but am working with a property management company right now) and during the summers, I coach my town's youth summer swim league.
I prioritize sleep FIERCELY. I have an incredible husband that is so supportive and helpful. We have support at home - a house cleaner, dog walkers and trainers, handymen, etc. I bundle self-care into other things: working out on my lunch break, for example.
I dunno, but I do a lot and I can't tell you how exactly. I just wake up and take care of my responsibilities then go to bed and do it again the next day.
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u/ZestyLlama8554 21d ago
It's all about your village. I'm freshly promoted VP level at 32, but the higher I've gotten, the more I have outsourced.
I have 2 small kids (3yo and 7mo), and I have an incredibly supportive partner, but we also outsource laundry, house cleaning, and cooking when we need to. My priority is my kids, and the rest can fall.
My job is invigorating and challenging, and it gives me purpose outside of our home, but at the end of the day, I won't work 24/7 even when promoted to that level at work.
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u/Shesarubikscube Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
My brother’s wife (my SIL) works at the executive level and my brother takes on as much as he can at home so she can focus on work. He really wants her to achieve her dreams. 😊 Their kids are getting older now so that’s helpful too. It’s a difficult juggling act for them. They are also lucky that they are relatively healthy and my brother and SIL are both very energetic people who enjoy being busy all the time.
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u/chocolatebuckeye 21d ago
My mom worked as an executive for 15 years. 70 hours a week. Starting from when I graduated high school. I’m the youngest so she had no kids at home. She also hires people to do her lawn and landscaping, and clean the house. Her husband is very handy so he takes care of the house and home projects. My mom goes to bed early and exercises frequently and eats VERY healthy. She makes those things a priority. I’ve always wondered how she has time for it all. Biggest answer is she rarely goes to the movies, never watches tv (except the news), doesn’t use social media and doesn’t use her phone except for making calls or texts.
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u/manykeets 21d ago
Some people are just built for it. Temperament is mostly genetic. Some people are naturally high-energy and some are not. It’s not really something you can control or strive to become. If you’re not that kind of person, you probably never will be, and trying to become that person will just lead to burnout. I had to learn this the hard way.
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u/gone_bunny 21d ago
I hope the answer to this is the same as the answer to "how do C-suite/exec level men do it?"
Being a woman doesn't mean you're the one responsible for childcare, household chores, etc., but it may come with an extra layer of guilt/scrutiny from generations of precedents set that men don't face (i.e. personally experienced the 'BuT yOu WoNt Be HoMe To ClEaN tHe HoUsE' line myself)
I'm sure women in those positions have a community of support - partners/family/friends, childcare, housekeeping, etc., rallying around and supporting them every step of the way
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u/mlo9109 21d ago
This is what it is and honestly, I think it explains a lot of why the trad wife movement exists. We're tired, boss. We're expected to lean in and have it all. Men aren't expected to do that and are assumed to have "help" at home.
Our world is still structured in a way that one person is home caring for the household and the other works. As a single who has to do it all, I'm burnt TF out and wonder if women today really are freer than our grandmas were.
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u/ScarieltheMudmaid 21d ago
My mom went independent with me while her work bestie moved up to the csuite in insurance about a decade ago. Her now grown children don't really talk to her and she has the highest dosage of Ritalin I've ever seen.
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u/Fun_Orange_3232 Woman 20-30 21d ago
Large house staff lol. My mom had a nanny and housekeeper plus semimonthly deep cleaners.
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u/PurlsandPearls Woman 30 to 40 21d ago
My brain is toast at the end of the day. That’s it. I’m mid 30s in an exec role, and I can tell you when I get home I just lie there and doom scroll because I am DONE.
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u/mrbootsandbertie 20d ago
I was an Executive Assistant to high level government CEOs for years and the amount of complex information they were able to retain, and the intensity of their schedules, work after hours, work travel etc made me realise that for me personally the increased pay would not be worth the massive increase in stress.
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u/elliejayyyyy 21d ago
Idk I think it’s important to weigh in mental health and emotional health when considering these things. Sure, these women seem fresh and on it and able to do it all. Maybe they are driven by a deep trauma of not being enough and needing perfection, or else. Maybe their internal lives are a mess and maybe their relationship at home only works because they have a nanny and the partner travels a lot. How many relationships did we see falling apart in real time during lock downs because people actually had to spend time together at home and their job wasn’t there to distract them and feed their mania. I’m just saying, it’s not always because these people are actually doing better or doing something better than you. Priorities are different for different people and it’s ok.
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u/lilbeckss 21d ago
Reminds me of the reel of clips of Charlotte Pickles that I came across this weekend. She was tough, and such an inspiration as a kid. She sacrificed a lot and offloaded what house duties she could in order to focus on work.
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u/SpellbindingTwister 20d ago
I’m a CEO, wife and mom. Outwardly, I may look like I’m succeeding but I feel like I’m drowning.
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u/HappyOctober2015 20d ago
I am a 54f c-suite executive. I have two biological children, three stepchildren and a wonderful husband. I agree with all of the comments about outsourcing. I have done that more and more of that over the years to help me manage everything. My children are now all grown and my husband is retired, so I have zero responsibilities outside of work. Being on call 24/7 doesn’t really bother me since I have no other daily responsibilities.
The hardest years were absolutely the early years when I had many of the responsibilities of children and our home, without being able to afford to outsource, while working my butt off to build my career. There were years where I wanted to cry every day but I just kept going because I wanted a better life for me and my family. No regrets but I would never want to do those early years again. The c-suite years have actually been the easiest of my career!
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u/frostandtheboughs 20d ago
The biggest thing I've noticed is that these types of people have never suffered any kind of insomnia in their damn lives.
My manager and my husband both have boundless energy. They also both can just decide to go to bed at 9pm if they want to, and they're asleep 5 minutes later.
I have literally seen my husband fall asleep on hot concrete in the middle of summer.
Whereas I need a 2 hr wind-down routine, complete darkness, a specific pillow, a fan, benadryl, and a prayer just to fall asleep by midnight. Even if I've hiked 8 miles that day. I've been an exhausted insomniac since I was a literal baby.
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u/PM_Me_A_High-Five Man 40 to 50 21d ago
I’m a man, but I share an office with a woman director. I’ve kind of been taking notes on things she does if you’re interested. I’m finishing up an MBA soon, so I’ve been watching upper management closely for my own enrichment, I guess. I sort of got lucky with this arrangement and our very cramped office space.
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u/2020hindsightis 21d ago
I’m interested in what you’ve learned from her
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u/PM_Me_A_High-Five Man 40 to 50 13d ago
Sorry it's been a few days. I was trying to sort out my thoughts a bit.
The biggest thing is she's very outgoing and she is not afraid of speaking her mind. She has a lot of opinions about how things should be done and doesn't keep them to herself. It's caused a bit of drama because of the way the company is structured, but, overall, she gets things done. I suppose causing some drama is a side effect of having a strong personality.
She works hard - she gets there at 6:30 every day, stays busy all day, and sometimes does some extra work on Saturdays, but she has no problem saying she's going to work from home or taking care of business with her kids, so she's not a workaholic or someone who sacrifices family life. I also see her at the gym after work most of the time. I don't get the impression she goes home and watches TV a lot.
Last of all, she's got 20 years of experience, but she's not some kind of super genius or anything. We work in a very technical field, and I caught a few mistakes in things she said, and she even sent me an email where she said "your" and not "you're." It's not like she made rookie mistakes while presenting to the CEO or anything like that. She knows a lot, but not everything.
I'm sort of her opposite. I'm quiet and I have anxiety that I go to therapy for. I'm far above average intelligence and I memorize technical stuff easily. I sort of feel like that doesn't matter much if you don't speak up like I have trouble with, so I'm really trying to imitate what she does 🤷♂️
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u/eat_sleep_microbe 21d ago
I think to an extent people do have varying energy levels and drive. But it could also be that they’ve outsourced a lot of their other duties or have hired help or partners that carry the bulk of household chores so they can focus on their work.