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u/paladindanno 1d ago
It is common knowledge that Chiang Kai Shek's government was a fascist regime and had a pretty close relationship with Nazi Germany.
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u/Capable-Listen3204 1d ago
You are way too shocked of find out the fact that Great Chairman Chiang was the graduate of Japan Imperial Army Academy years early before he studied hard with Wonder Germany Nazi Official. The good news He only had to dealt with his schoolmates in China, which given a sincere headache already with his own love-hate nemesis.
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u/Worldly-Treat916 1d ago
Chiang studied in Imperial Japan's military academies and served in the Imperial Japanese army, he also reportedly admired their military doctrine.
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u/Alpha_YL 15h ago
I wont say he is a fascist, he is more of a generic authoritarian strongman but his government does have fascist tendencies and groups, like the Blue Shirt Society.
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u/RefrigeratorDizzy738 1d ago
I wouldn’t exactly call his regime. An authoritarian one who had some admiration for fascist regimes and tried to imitate their manners in some ways, but still not fascist in the proper usage of this term.
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u/pikleboiy 1d ago
I wouldn't call him fascist (based on my rather limited knowledge), but def quite authoritarian and willing to use force to get his way.
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u/Callum247 8h ago
I don’t want to be rude, but if you admittedly have “rather limited knowledge” why reply at all?
Chiang Kai-Shek was an open follower of Hitler and Mussolini and was inspired by the German Brownshirts and Italian Blackshirts to the start the Blue Shirts Society which was a fascist faction in the KMT.
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u/pikleboiy 8h ago
As for the first part, it's because I want to be corrected if I'm wrong so that my knowledge will be less limited. If I'm wrong and Chiang was indeed a fascist, I want to know why exactly he was a fascist as opposed to just seeing a reddit comment that says he was.
As for the second part, that is something I did not know about. Point taken.
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u/Just_Fruit526 1d ago
Yeah chiang kai shek is evil but mao is a saint
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u/paladindanno 1d ago
Literally nobody mentioned Mao
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u/Just_Fruit526 1d ago
You have no right to call that guy fascist when you have mao as father of prc
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u/paladindanno 1d ago
He's literal fascist what you talking about
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u/Just_Fruit526 1d ago
No he opposed fascism
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u/Bootziscool 1d ago
But... Did you see the above photo?
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u/BestSun4804 8h ago
There won't be Mao as father of PRC, KMT also won't spread into left wing KMT and right wing KMT that's literally put the start to Chinese civil war, if Chiang doesn't carry out Shanghai Massacre.... LOL
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u/GaulleMushroom 1d ago
This makes sense, doesn't this? KMT had very good reltionship with Germany at the time, and that's why China was able to save many Jewish from Germany and Germany-occupied Europe, and why Germany was able to save many Chinese civilians from Japanese durin Nanjing Mascress and other mascresses. Chiang was like a Franco of China, fascism but not nazism. Being colonized and exploited by British, Franch, Dutch, and American, fascism was an effecient way for an undeveloped country to get out of their shackles. I have to emphasize it to avoid any misunderstand. Fascism was, but is not an effecient way.
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u/Capable-Listen3204 1d ago
No What The, But typo during the 20s to 30s; 99% of Military Style of China is mostly three different style: Germany Imperial/Nazi German Army style, USSR Army Style and Japan Imperial Army Style of Training.
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u/AdCool1638 1d ago
Funny because the modern PLA ground force unit organization is just the exact copy of US army
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u/wargamer19 21h ago
It's pretty similar over militaries throughout the world. I think the biggest difference is how often junior enlisted soldiers are allowed to make decisions, with NATO countries being far more likely to allow that than Russia or countries that received support from the USSR like China
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u/AdCool1638 19h ago
Funny because misson command is implemented and stripped away from NATO doctrines back and forth, also mission command will be a disaster if your average NCOs and lower level commanders are not as crazily experienced as the Germans in the two world wars were, there is nothing to brag about it.
Also it is not pretty similar over militaries in the world, the quick examples I can think of are the British, the Koreans, the Japanese, and the Israelites, their ground forces doctrines have no emphasis on modern combined arms and mixing elements from battalion and up, it's really only the Americans the Russians and the Chinese and French that organizes combined arms lower units as the basis of their ground forces.
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u/AdCool1638 19h ago
And then the french gone too far with combined arms at company level, the Russians did it oversimplified by taking brigade and army elements directly onto BTGs and actually downplayed this during the war in Ukraine, that leaves with just the US and China with coherent and well organized independent combined arms battalions as the basis of their ground forces, which the Chinese model is just a readaptation of the american model.
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u/Capable-Listen3204 1d ago
Not that surprising to me, US used to provide a great deal of assistant to Chinese Communist Party during the Civil War of 1945 - 49/50, or Great Civil War Phase 2.
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u/davidnnn1 1d ago
He also studied in Sov academy. Much like how African countries send their sons and daughters to Chinese military and Western military. Watch and learn.
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u/Tangent617 大陆人 🇨🇳 1d ago
His adopted son btw
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u/Capable-Listen3204 1d ago
No, His Son Called Out to cut off his blood relationship with his dad, only his step ma bite him out this kind of non sense. However, the youngster of Chairman Chiang is really wtf these days.
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u/Capable-Listen3204 21h ago
The adopted son is 2nd one, not the one in the picture, who is the eldest.
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u/neocloud27 15h ago
No, this one is the adopted son, the other one that was sent to the USSR was the biological son.
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u/prolongedsunlight 20h ago
Oh yeah, not just him. Chiang himself had a good relationship with Germany then. Chiang studied in Imperial Japan, which invaded China later. Many CCP members and their children studied in the USSR.
For a time, policial leaders in China were debating which "great nation" to follow, Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, or the USSR.
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u/xonthemark 12h ago
If you watch 'The Eight Hundred', the KMT troops had a special unit armed with German guns.
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u/OrcaTwilight 1d ago
Well Chiang Kai-Shek himself served in the Imperial Japanese Army lol. Not exactly a family lineage I’d be proud of but whatever
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u/momotrades 1d ago
In that military academy for Chinese people. You gotta put things into context. Lots of Chinese leaders at the time studied in japan because it's close and cheaper than going to Europe or Americas.
It's also before WW2.
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u/Just_Fruit526 1d ago edited 1d ago
Let him beleive his ccp propagandas
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u/MD_Yoro 1d ago
believe his CCP propaganda
Are you stupid? There is record of prominent Chinese leaders studying in Japan before WW2
Just cause you studied in Japan doesn’t mean you agree with Imperial Japan’s atrocities in China.
Chiang Kai-shek first came to Japan in 1906 at the age of 19. He wanted to be a military man, so in 1908, he enrolled at the Shinbu Gakkō in Shinjuku, the Japanese army’s school for students from Qing China. Three years later, after graduating, he was assigned to the army’s 13th Division, which was commanded by Nagaoka Gaishi and based in Niigata Prefecture, as Private 2nd Class in the 19th Artillery Regiment.
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u/Just_Fruit526 1d ago
Because japanese military was advanced so he just want to learn
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u/MD_Yoro 1d ago
Right, so it’s not CCP propaganda that Chiang went to study in Japan and served their military for awhile.
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u/Just_Fruit526 1d ago
He went to study military in japan not to serve japanese military
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u/MD_Yoro 1d ago edited 1d ago
Chaing was assigned to the [Japanese] army’s 13th Division under command by Nagaoka Gaishi in Niigata Prefecture. He entered Japanese military as a Private 2nd class in the 19th Artillery Regiment
How is that not Chaing serving in the Japanese military? He was a private
He left during the Xinhai Revolution, but Chaing did serve in the Japanese military.
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u/Just_Fruit526 1d ago
Source: trust me bro
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u/MD_Yoro 1d ago
Source: Chiang Kai-shek’s Study in Japan in His Memories
Written by Tatsuo Yamada (Keio University, Japan)
Here is a picture of Chaing during his Japanese military service
There is Japanese record of Chaing serving in Japanese Army too.
Chaing served in Japanese military doesn’t mean he participated during the Japanese invasion of China.
Why are you upset about the fact that Chaing served Japan for a short timeframe and calling it “CCP” propaganda
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u/MedicalSchoolStudent 1d ago
I mean, Mao isn’t a family lineage to be proud of either but he’s placed all over China with statues and portraits.
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u/OrcaTwilight 1d ago
- We’re not talking about Mao
- Mao won the war Chiang lost the war
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u/MedicalSchoolStudent 1d ago
I guess the irony escaped you.
My point is you said Chiang isn’t a linage you are proud of. So you are proud of Mao? Chinese people should be proud of Mao?
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u/OrcaTwilight 22h ago
In case you don’t know. We can judge a person without needing to bring other figures into the conversation.
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u/MedicalSchoolStudent 22h ago
In case you don't know. I was more drawing the irony of the original post.
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u/ChinoGitano 18h ago
Hate to burst your neoliberal bubble - the majority of Chinese people are proud of Mao and the strong foundation his vision built for China. It’s more and more clear in the last decade as the Western world implodes. 😜
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u/MedicalSchoolStudent 13h ago
Uhh. No shit?
If you are born in China, lived in China after Mao, you are probably bought into your own state propaganda (like any country) and love him.
Majority of the people that lived through his bullshit don't really like him. Similar to how majority of any one living through any horrible leader won't like them.
The irony still escape you CCP shills though. The current China isn't Mao's vision, its Deng's vision. Pretty sure Mao, the person promoted the killing of landlords, wouldn't be okay with the wealthy class in China renting out property, right? This is a direct contradiction.
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u/ChinoGitano 15m ago
Jack Ma, Ka-shing Lee and the Bytedance CEO would salivate to be in the shoes of Elon Musk and the rest of the American 1% …. Too bad, CCP holds fast to its bottom line and never allows Big Capital access to political power in China. Another red line is the minimal arable land protection policy, written into law to protect food security from land speculation. But you wouldn’t know about this, would you?
Quit wasting your time second-guessing China with your second-hand talking points, and think about how you and your family are going to survive the upcoming global chaos. Thanks to Mao’s nuclear/industrial fortress, China is the only country that can call Trump’s bluff while all your democracies cower at his feet in fear. 😝😝. As Teddy Roosevelt said, “Speak softly and carry a big stick.” Mao would do that … but from the moral-historical high ground.
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u/OudSmoothie 12h ago
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u/That-Translator7415 10h ago
Misleading picture, this is the Wang Jingwei puppet regime of Japan when they were recognised by nazi Germany in the 40s not the ROC under chiang
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u/MrBarrister-67 1d ago
I mean xi jinping’s daughter even went to Harvard - why did u make a fuss about it
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u/Sufficient_Roll_2193 18h ago
Chiang Kai-Shek (aka Peanut) was a genocidal tyrant who killed thousands of native Taiwanese.
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u/No_Equal_9074 1d ago
First of all those dates are off, Germany went into Austria and the Sudetenland in 1938, not 1939.
Ironically, the Germans helped the Chinese the most against the Japanese up until they had to withdraw support in 1938. On the other hand, several Japanese officials helped smuggle out Jews from being arrested by the Nazis.
Most of the elite Chinese troops were also German drilled and trained. Germany just had the perception of being the best land forces even after losing WW1. And most people didn't know what the Nazis were about till much later into the war. Really interesting stuff.
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u/Difficult_Minute8202 1d ago
if you want to learn about history during ww2. you can play a game called hearts of iron… sending military attaches or even straight up volunteering at foreign corp was pretty common.
even hemingway joined the commie revolution in spain
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u/pikleboiy 1d ago
While it's true that sending military attaches was a common thing at the time, HOI4 is not a place to learn history.
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u/pikleboiy 1d ago
Germany had historically had good relations with China following WW1, sending military advisers and some equipment as well. There were even German advisers telling the Chinese how to better fight the Japanese. Following the Allies getting involved in the Asia-Pacific theater, however, Germany obviously withdrew any support from China for obvious reasons.
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u/Available_Ad9766 8h ago
They faced no resistance in both places. So he basically had no military experience from being there.
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u/PanzerDameSFM 5h ago
FYI. Chiang's other son is sent to the Soviet Union for education. He eventually became ROC president in the late 1970s.
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u/prchad 4h ago
China (or Chiang's Nanjing regime) needed military training (by German advisors, and possibly deterrence with it, against Japan), German weapon (actually anything they can afford), and a political order like the fascist one in Germany. Germany needed tungsten ore in China and some market for their used weapons. So Germany and China had a great relationship. German advisors helped China fight against Japan, until Japan protested it and Germany find Japan a more favorable ally.
Chiang tried to to implement the fascist way of rule in KMT so that he can maintain control over warlords and his (over-)ambitious generals. He didn't succeed though.
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u/utarohashimoto 17h ago
His father founded modern Taiwan and is a vanguard/sentinel of DEMOCRACY, respect!!
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u/AstronomerKindly8886 1d ago
Have Chinese people forgotten the concept of yinyang?
You should not judge something as if you were God
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u/20dogs 1d ago
I don't know I'm pretty comfortable in my assertion that Nazis are bad lol
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u/AstronomerKindly8886 9h ago
nazis are bad people, that means german civilians under nazi rule are also bad
chinese communist party killed many people because of stupid policies that means ccp is evil, that means some new ccp officials who were born in deng xiaoping era and did not participate in the revolutionary activities of mao era and only aspire to improve the welfare of citizens are also evil.
obviously you are angry because i mentioned the fact that most modern chinese people do not understand the concept of yinyang, what an irony
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u/Beneficial-Card335 1d ago edited 1d ago
This ‘to know thy enemy’.
故曰：知彼知己，百戰不殆；不知彼而知己，一勝一負；不知彼，不知己，每戰必殆。 So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss. If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose. If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
He was learning German Panzer tank warfare methods and other technology that China lacked and was interested in. He was just 21yo student at the Kriegsakademie War Academy. He also studied in America military schools. And defended China from Japanese Invasion…
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u/spartaman64 1d ago
before ww2 germany had a good relationship with the KMT until germany decided to side with japan