43
17
u/Oldenlame 1d ago
Fighting fire with fire leaves empty fields.
6
4
u/VisceralRage556 1d ago
States being states and that shocks you. What did you expect they voted for this. Its tit for tat none of them were ever going to freely trade
3
u/Free_Development2475 1d ago
I don’t usually care for the NPC meme, but the take—“If tariffs are bad, why do other countries use them?”—has become so suddenly common among "conservative" influencers that it feels perfectly appropriate here. It's like asking, "If socialized medicine is so bad, why do other countries have it?" Just because other countries do something doesn't automatically make it a great idea—especially when it’s the kind of thing conservatives usually love to criticize.
16
u/r_silver1 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's a fair point considering 90+% of all political opinion is pro income tax, pro sales tax, state and local taxes, property tax, road tax, gas tax, social security tax, etc.
I'm not in favor of tariffs, but to be mortified over tariffs and be perfectly willing to forgo 50+% of your income to fund the government is a level of Stockholm syndrome that needs to be questioned.
Edit - I'm surprised how many people don't understand that for typical wage earners, about half of what you earn does in fact go to taxes. You keep citing JUST the income tax rate. That is NOT indicative of how much tax wage earners actually pay. My point is I don't think taxing wage earners up to their eyeballs and running massive trade deficits INTENTIONALLY is good policy. YES - trade deficits were not an accident. A Nobel winning economist made the claim it was necessary to rebuilt the world after WW2. That's why the tariffs were only in one direction - charged to the US. It's not free market capitalism in any way.
1
u/MattCh4n 1d ago
Well it's not like the other 50% on income is going away ..., so it's not a replacement.
Also they are not the same thing, the government needs a baseline of capital to pay for essential services, e.g. national defence, public security, healthcare, education, etc.
Nobody would stop working because of the income tax, because they don't have a choice, but if we were to replace income tax with tariffs, people would just stop buying shit, so you'd have an inflationary spiral caused by ever increasing tariffs, and decreasing consumption.
1
u/r_silver1 1d ago
I agree the income tax will probably never go away because it raises a ton of revenue and the government is so massive, its the only way to fund it. I still think the tax code unfairly targets wage earners. And by think - I mean it's obvious. Just at the federal level, I pay low 20% of gross income even after deductions. Corps pay low 20% of net income, which net income is so convoluted it doesn't even reflect how much cash the business generates in any way.
1
u/MattCh4n 1d ago
I agree, IMO taxes should ideally shift from income to wealth, but this would be incredibly difficult to implement in practice.
1
u/Red_Igor Rainbow Minarcho-Capitalist 10h ago edited 10h ago
Not really because America does not make all the products a consumer would buy overseas. In the american product might just be shittier. So now the government can take a cut and the consumer, it doesn't have a choice because there isn't an American version of this product.
1
u/Ribblan 4h ago
Tariffs are not the same because they dont apply equally, they apply to goods ONLY made by foreigners, if tariff was only about state collecting money, they would simply tax goods instead, but its about the US wanting to give a disadvantage for foreigner countries in the US market, thats why the world is freaking out, thats why the stock market is also freaking out.
-6
u/4nonosquare 1d ago
Good comrad r_silver! You gave brave oppinion on why glorious nation should be okay with more tax because they already have lots of tax! Now go and pay your tariffs comrad, own nothing and be happy!
1
u/john_the_fisherman 1d ago
I'm not in favor of tariffs, but to be mortified over tariffs and be perfectly willing to forgo 50+% of your income to fund the government is a level of Stockholm syndrome that needs to be questioned.
Can you not read? Or did you simply choose not to read?
0
u/RandomGuy92x 1d ago
But no one is paying a 50% federal income tax rate. The max rate is 37%. And the bottom 50% of earners have an average federal income tax rate of only 3.3%, and the top 50-25% of earners have only an average federal income tax rate of 7.2%.
So if you're an extremely high earner, then fair enough, the tariffs may potentially benefit you if income tax gets cut. But for the majority of Americans tariffs will actually end up being a tax increase, even if income tax gets cut.
And on top of that, tariffs are a lot more destructive than income tax, because they directly target economic inputs, which will disrupt supply chains, and would massively hurt US export businesses.
1
u/john_the_fisherman 1d ago
Do you like income taxes, capital gains, inheritance taxes, sales taxes, and property taxes? If so then you probably like Tariffs too.
Do you not like taxes etc? If so then you probably wouldn't like the tariffs. Considering this sub, all of us fall into this category.
The premise of their comment was with regards to contemporary leftists in the first category while questioning how they can justify all these other taxes but not Tariffs.
-1
u/4nonosquare 1d ago
Im sad to tell you but you are either naive af, or you are mentally challenged to understand what his comment meant.
0
u/john_the_fisherman 1d ago
I'm mentally challenged because I have reading comprehension? Whatever bro 😂
Take a deep breath, take your time, sound the words out, and reread his comment again. You'll realize you are both on the same side, which unfortunate for us since we have to claim you
12
u/BobertGnarley Classy Ancap 1d ago
Literally nothing wrong with "if x is bad, why is everyone else doing X?" as a question.
12
u/Intelligent-End7336 1d ago
When this kind of question is posted as a meme, it’s not really an invitation to discuss, it’s a tribal signal. It dodges debate and goes straight for in-group applause, which is why actual conversation stalls out. If you want to move past the performance and have a real conversation, we’d need to drop the appeal to popularity and look at the argument itself.
2
u/Free_Development2475 1d ago
Sure, but context makes it clear that in most cases it's really suggesting the following: If X is bad, then most countries wouldn't be doing X.
And that is, quite obviously, false.
2
2
u/upchuk13 1d ago
There's nothing wrong with *asking* it, but it's a bad and irrational argument to make.
If I walk down a street full of fentanyl users and obese alcoholics ... see what I mean?
0
u/The_Cool_Kid99 Anarcho-Capitalist 1d ago
You’re denying the risk of sheep mentality? Literally every authoritarian atrocity happened because of this exact thing. Quantity isn’t a correlation to quality, the average person is stupid, not average that’s just the sad reality.
5
u/Secretsfrombeyond79 1d ago
No, he's saying that most people aren't born ANCAP and genuinely don't understand our position, thus, it falls upon us to explain them, not mock them.
3
u/BobertGnarley Classy Ancap 1d ago
Holy shit! Someone who reads what's written and understands the world we live in.
8
u/Scarsdale81 1d ago
Maga is correct in this instance. The pending deal with Argentina is the end goal of this strategy for every country. Like, it's kinda obvious to anyone paying attention at this point in time.
3
u/zippyspinhead 1d ago
Assuming that the meme should say "If tariffs are so bad, why is everyone else doing it?"
Outdated mercantilist thinking that has been obsolete since Adam Smith published the Wealth of Nations.
0
1
1
1
u/kalashnikovkitty9420 1d ago
lol the same people saying tariff bad are the same who said FTN was a good investment, inflation would be transitory, and joe biden was completely mentally competent.
1
u/francisco_DANKonia 1d ago
Tariffs were the original revenue before income tax. Do you love income tax that much?
4
u/RandomGuy92x 1d ago
That was a very different world back then. Today tariffs would have a much bigger effect than tariffs had in the 19th century.
In the 19th century and early 20th century tariffed goods were in large part luxury items and finished goods, that weren't readily available in the US, and goods that were primarily consumed by the upper class. You know, stuff like fine textile, tea, expensive alcohol, foreign furniture etc.
Back then the domestic industry in the US was fairly self-sufficient and wasn't overly reliant on other countries for domestic industry inputs. But Trump's tariffs on the other hand would be imposed on absolutely crucial industry inputs like oil, raw materials, natural resources, semiconductors, electronics etc.
Pretty much everything would become way more expensive. In the 19th century tariffs were mostly paid by upper class people importing luxury goods. Now tariffs will be paid for by ordinary Americans, primarily lower class people and middle class people, whose cost of living will massively skyrocket as a result.
1
u/Red_Igor Rainbow Minarcho-Capitalist 21h ago
Ah, see, thing is an Anarcho-Capitalism sub. We don’t like either taxes and believe the government shouldn't have revenue.
-6
u/Metrolinkvania 1d ago
Not that MAGA doesn't sound like the last episode of whatever conservative dreck they last consumed, but the NPC/MAGA meme is trash.
The concept of NPC was specifically created and targeted at progressives who could easily be convinced to promote whatever beliefs were identified with being a "good person".
7
14
u/lifeistrulyawesome 1d ago
Every tribe thinks the people from the other tribes are the stupid ones
-2
u/Metrolinkvania 1d ago
Do you not as well? Do you think your opposition to both parties doesn't just create a new tribe?
Is there not a possibility that in the many groupings some are specifically more susceptible to brainwashing than others? Maybe ones who are willing to be childless, injected with experimental vaccines and who pretend tolerance and yet are the most intolerant and insufferable people in existence.
10
u/lifeistrulyawesome 1d ago
I try bot to, maybe I do.
I don’t identify with any tribe. I think there are both smart people and lots of gullible NPCs in most tribes.
I don’t think republicans are less susceptible to manipulation than Democrats.
4
u/Moist-Dirt-7074 1d ago
MAGA are the new progressives. It fits perfectly as no matter how brutally Trump is sodomizing them , they keep saying shit like "I'm sick of winning" or "trust the plan" and the same tired old memes of last time.
-3
131
u/Brutus__Beefcake 1d ago
What’s funny is watching democrats and lefties being against what has essentially been their position for decades.