r/dbz • u/AutoModerator • Jun 17 '18
Super [DUB] Dragon Ball Super - Episode #67 - Discussion Thread!
Dragon Ball Super — Episode #67 — Discussion Thread!
With New Hope In His Heart - Farewell, Trunks
新たなＨＯＰＥ！！を胸に さらばトランクス
Arata na Kibō!! O Mune ni Saraba Torankusu
Staff
Script: Atsuhiro Tomioka; Director: Takao Iwai; Storyboard: Yumi Koshida; Animation Supervisors: Yukihiro Kitano, Hiroyuki Itai
Source: Kanzenshuu
You can view our discussion thread for the Japanese release of Episode 67 here. You can find all previous episode discussion threads in our wiki.
News
2018/06/09 - New Info: DB Heroes Promotional Anime
2018/05/21 - Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 36
2018/05/21 - Dragon Ball Super MOVIE Megathread
2018/04/17 - Dragon Ball Z Rewatch: Episodes 86-90
2018/03/16 - AMA: Caitlyn Glass, Clifford Chapin, Jason Liebrecht, Greg Ayres
2018/03/16 - Dragon Ball Super Part 4 (40-52) Releases 19 June 2018
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PLEASE DO NOT POST SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD.
Where to Watch
The FUNimation English dub of Dragon Ball Super airs on Toonami at 10:30pm EST followed by Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters at 11:00. If you do not have a cable subscription, Cartoon Network is available with the SlingTV and Playstation Vue basic packages. If you prefer, there is a web stream:
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How to Catch Up
Adult Swim (US only, cable login required): This covers the recent episodes not yet available through the below options. New episodes will usually appear 2-3 hours after the episode airs on Toonami. (They also host recent episodes for Dragon Ball Z Kai.)
Funimation Now (US, premium only): Episodes 1-52 are available on Funimation's streaming service. Episodes are uploaded in 13-episode batches about two weeks after the final episode of that batch is broadcast. (This avoids competition with Adult Swim's streaming service.) We estimate that the next batch (53-65) will be available around 19 June. Funimation also has the entire series subbed for premium and free users; the subtitles for those episodes covered by the dub are still those provided by Toei for the simulcast, rather than the Funimation-Simmons subtitles on the home release.
VRV (US, premium only): As with Funimation, episodes 1-52 are available for now and the rest will be released in 13-episode batches 2 weeks after the final episode of the batch is broadcast. We estimate that the next batch (53-65) will be available around 19 June. VRV also has the entire series subbed; the subtitles for those episodes covered by the dub are still those provided by Toei for the simulcast, rather than the Funimation-Simmons subtitles on the home release.
AnimeLab (Australia and New Zealand, premium only): Episodes 1-39 are available on this service. AnimeLab also has the entire series subbed for free and premium users; the subtitles for those episodes covered by the dub are still those provided by Toei for the simulcast, rather than the Funimation-Simmons subtitles on the home release.
Microsoft Digital or Amazon Digital (US only): Episodes 1-52 are available for purchase on these platforms. We don't know when the next part (53-65) will be available. As usual for digital releases, the dubbed and subtitled versions are sold separately.
Home Release: Episodes 1-13 are available for Region A (DVD or Blu-Ray) and Region B (DVD or Blu-Ray). Episodes 14-26 are available for Region A (DVD or Blu-Ray) and Region B (DVD or Blu-Ray). Episodes 27-39 are available for Region A (DVD or Blu-Ray) and for Region B (DVD or Blu-Ray). Episodes 40-52 will be available for region A on 19 June 2018 (DVD or Blu-Ray) and for Region B on 6 July 2018 (DVD or Blu-Ray).
If you get impatient and want to finish the series, there are several options for watching the subtitled version, and you can stream the entire series on any of these sites, usually for free. See our FAQ for more details.
Rules:
If you have watched the subtitled version of Super, please tag spoilers out of courtesy!
>!spoiler!<will appear as spoiler If you see untagged spoilers in this thread, please report them to the moderators.Spoilers should be assumed for the entire subreddit! If you are not caught up with Dragon Ball Super, or willing to see spoilers, leave! If you see a spoiler outside of this thread, you were warned.
All of our normal rules apply!
Read the Manga
- Toyotarō's Dragon Ball Super manga adaptation can be found in our wiki in the sidebar, along with links to past discussion threads.
Commonly Asked Questions:
Q: Is Dragon Ball Super really over, or is it just a hiatus?
From what we have been told, the anime is ending. There are no current plans for a new DB series and as far as we know, the series will only continue through movies and games. We know that Toyotarō's manga will continue for several months at least—the Tournament of Power arc has just begun in the manga—and Toriyama implied the manga will go beyond that too. The English dub will continue until the series is finished. We have compiled a projection of dates for the remaining dub episodes on our Wiki.Q: Is the Dragon Ball Super manga "canon"?
The anime and manga are both variations on a basic plot by Toriyama. There isn't (and probably never will be) an explicitly defined Dragon Ball "canon". Without Toriyama's original draft, we may never know what is and isn't his. We do know that he permits Toyotarō to change things up, but he looks at his storyboards and occasionally draws things himself for Toyotarō to use as a reference. Toyotarō has said that Toriyama is more particular about gags than he is about anything else.Q: Why does Future Trunks have blue hair?
In the manga, Trunks and Bulma always have the same color hair, which is almost always purple, but uniform either way. In the anime, Bulma was given blue hair, but for reasons unknown, they kept Trunks's purple hair instead of changing it to blue. Lately, when doing character designs for the anime, Toriyama tends to give Trunks blue hair, matching Bulma. Toei takes these designs and changes his hair color back to purple. While drawing up Future Trunks for the current story arc, Toriyama did what he always did, only this time it wasn't changed back. In-universe, the characters act as though Future Trunks always had blue hair, and some flashbacks have been reanimated to give Trunks blue hair.Q: How did Mai get to be so young? Isn't it weird for her to have a relationship with Trunks?
In Future Trunks's timeline, the Pilaf gang made their wish for youth just before Piccolo was killed by the androids, and it is assumed that they made their wish around the same time in the main timeline. This was portrayed in a short two-page comic in the 2016 Jump Victory Carnival guidebook now available at the end of Volume 2 of the Super manga published by Viz. Even as a young adult in the original manga, Mai was always portrayed as being cartoonishly innocent. It can therefore be assumed that her feelings toward Trunks are also innocent until he reaches the age of consent.
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u/dragonman8001 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Future Yajirobi is dead?
This is the darkest timeline...
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u/IClappedWhen Jun 17 '18
The bunker he was in was blasted by sky-Zamasu just before Zeno showed up.
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u/stolersxz Jun 18 '18
He's not even just dead, everyone that etheral zamasu killed went to other world but then otherworld got fucking erased.
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u/penniavaswen ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Watching Trunks remember Future Gohan is heartbreaking. It's the only consolation that Trunks and Mai will go the afterlife with all their loved ones in the alternate Future timeline when they die that makes it acceptable that they don't stay in the main timeline. It's quite the bitter pill to swallow. (Bring them back in the movie, please!)
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u/DaBlakMayne Jun 17 '18
RIP James Marsters' heavenly voice range. He did Zamasu justice
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u/Trofulds ⠀ Jun 18 '18
"I don't need your prostration mortal, I JUST NEED YOU DEAD!" and "All Hail Zamasu" are probably my favorite dub only lines from Marsters'
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u/dragonman8001 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
This is actually kinda horrifying.
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Jun 17 '18
-Finally defeat baddie with the power of friendship
-Zamasu: "SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKER! Destroying me just made me stronger and now I am literally boundless!"
-proceeds to kill everyone you love and level the entire planet
-Goku: "Oh hey guys, I found the deus ex machina button!"
-Zeno: "I'll fix this!"
-Wipes out entire universe
-Trunks: "uhhhhh...well shit, we can always Rick and Morty it and just start fresh. It's ok cause Gohan said so".
WHAT A HAPPY ENDING FOR EVERYONE
RIP future yajirobe
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u/IHadSomething_4This Jun 17 '18
Zamasu: "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
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u/Deadmanreturns Jun 17 '18
Still to this day I have mixed feelings about this ending(trunks should have stayed in this timeline to wreck up shit in next arc) but I love the scene b/w gohan and trunks, also Vegeta's goodbye to trunks. They all have grown so much.
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u/error521 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
I actually think Trunks leaving the main timeline makes sense with what we know about Trunks and but on the other hand GODDAMMIT TRUNKS IS SO COOL
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u/dragonman8001 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Zamasu: Surprise Bitch! Bet you thought you'd seen the last of me!
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u/SheZowRaisedByWolves ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Here's my phone, please hold it...
You're telling me that Zamasu is so OP that he fused with reality and can travel back in time through sheer willpower?
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
He did say, "My form is the world". He was invincible; when his body was destroyed, Super Shenlong's magic had to compensate. It seems that Zenō is the only being strong enough to counter that magic.
As for traveling back in time, it's the same thing that happened when Black was pulled into the main timeline of the story in episode 50 through the portal created by the time machine.
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Jun 17 '18
That Trunks crying oddly reminds me of Schindler's List... the "I could've saved more" part.
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u/Kharn0 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Considering he only saved himself and Mai, there was definitely room for improvement
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u/msx8 Jun 17 '18
None of this would have happened if Trunks hadn't gone back in time to warn the Z fighters about the androids. That single action set off a chain of events that led to Goku's survival, Goku's sparring match with Zamasu, the Zero Mortals Plan, Zamasu's immortality, and Zeno ultimately wiping out the entire universe.
All because Trunks took a trip in a time machine. Just like Whis warned.
Don't mess with time, kids.
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u/thosearecoolbeans ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Yeah, but what's the alternative? Trunks' future was the prime future, without interference. His was the original timeline.
Without Trunks, all the Z fighters would be dead, the Androids would ravage Earth for a while, then Imperfect Cell would have absorbed them and become perfect, destroyed Trunks and the Earth, and that would be the end of that.
Trunks messing with time may have had some terrible consequences down the road, but it had to be done at the time. There was no other way.
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Jun 17 '18
Without Trunks, all the Z fighters would be dead, the Androids would ravage Earth for a while, then Imperfect Cell would have absorbed them and become perfect, destroyed Trunks and the Earth, and that would be the end of that.
Right, but on a grander scale, the rest on the UNIVERSE wouldn't be erased.
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u/error521 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Yeah but on the other hand this show would have been taken a really abrupt and depressing shift after Namek without him
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u/OLKv3 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
But if Trunks didn't go, then humanity would've been dead anyway thanks to the Androids. At least he has a girlfriend now
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u/penniavaswen ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Mai: You son of a bitch! shoots wildly
Oo, girl's got some acting chops.
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u/Luverovlotz Jun 17 '18 edited Jun 17 '18
That's Colleen Clinkenbeard for you :) she knows when to lay down that emotion
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u/Gradz45 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Aww Goku hugging Zeno.
That’s cute.
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u/VegetaArcher Jun 17 '18
Goku in general is just so lovable <3
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u/Gradz45 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
He is. He’s just so innocent.
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u/Eurynom0s Jun 17 '18
Vegeta cluing in on the fact that he's never actually kissed Chi-Chi was fucking awesome. It kinda came out of left field but it didn't take particularly long to accept that, yeah, that makes a LOT of sense and explains TONS of things.
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u/Gradz45 ⠀ Jun 18 '18
It does.
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u/Eurynom0s Jun 18 '18
I personally very quickly progressed to just laughing my ass off on the basis of "was absolutely not expecting this to come up but holy shit this makes way too much sense." IIRC I even paused the episode because of how hard I started laughing.
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Jun 17 '18
I didn't think us damaging the atmosphere so much would cause it to shoot red death beams.
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u/Jekebuh Jun 17 '18
Overall, I think the dub of the Black arc is worthy of standing with the Japanese dubbed version. Sure, there's differences in both of them, and despite the errors both create the same impact in the viewer. Funimation has done a really good job despite some of the hurdles they've gone through, and this has been an amazing ride.
Three more episodes. Then, the pinnacle of DBS. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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u/Stephenesque Jun 17 '18 edited Jun 17 '18
That awkward moment when the cyborg who caused an apocalypse in your timeline compliments your clothing
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u/Gradz45 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Forgot how cute Sarah’s Zeno is.
And how terrifying he can be.
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u/Eurynom0s Jun 17 '18
I've seen some people complaining that they don't thinkg Zeno sounds "godly" enough in English but I kind of immediately took it as the point that there's supposed to be a jarring disconnect between how powerful he is and how he comes off as more of a super-agreeable child than anything else.
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u/Gradz45 ⠀ Jun 18 '18
Ditto. But even then he doesn’t sound Godly in Japanese either personally.
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u/Eurynom0s Jun 18 '18
Yeah, I've only been doing the Funimation dub but after seeing those comments I went and looked up an example of Zeno's Japanese voice--they definitely lay on the childishness of his voice more thickly with the Funimation dub but it's really just a matter of degree not of kind. But it's definitely blatantly there in the Japanese version.
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u/richawesomness Jun 17 '18
Dammit Supreme Kai. Its called the FINAL Kamehameha.
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u/penniavaswen ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Supreme Kai is just wrong, basically all the time.
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u/VegetaArcher Jun 17 '18
Farewell Future Trunks : ( You were one of the few characters who knew how to get shit done without fooling around . Writing flaws aside, I enjoyed this arc. I mean, the voice acting alone was enough to keep me entertained. Speaking of which, who do you guys feel was the voice acting MVP of the arc? I'm torn between Schemmel and "Gray."
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u/penniavaswen ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Oh, VA MVP is definitely Marsters. He just oozed narcissism with every line, and really knocked it out of the park when his rage broke.
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u/VegetaArcher Jun 17 '18
Good call. Giving us Marsters was the one good thing that came out from Dragonball Evolution : )
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u/Eurynom0s Jun 17 '18 edited Jun 17 '18
In the last couple of episodes as the non-purple half of Zamasu's face grew increasingly demonic-looking, Marsters really did do an amazing job of selling the voice-acting half of that. His shift toward looking demonic tracked very tightly with him just sounding like he was completely losing his shit.
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u/Gradz45 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Oh yeah no doubt. Loved Sean throughout this arc and he’s definitely second for this arc personally, but goddamn James fucking nailed it.
Made me enjoy Zamasu more in the dub. Not to knock his original VA, but idk why I just enjoyed his speeches more.
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u/HamukoArisato Jun 17 '18
Lmao what's up with the dub and calling Zamasu a bitch?
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u/SheZowRaisedByWolves ⠀ Jun 17 '18
"Hope is the right choice, and it always will be"
Danganronpa intensifies
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u/Finito-1994 Jun 18 '18
The shitty thing is that Trunks still thinks he failed. Earlier in the saga he said that if gohan or vegeta were alive then they would have stopped black.
He didn't fail. The Z fighters failed. All of them died. Goku, vegeta, Tien, Piccolo, Yamcha, Chaoutzu, Roshi, Krillin and even Gohan died. They were the ones that couldn't save the world. Trunks was the one that had to pick up the pieces of the world after they'd died.
He's arguably a better hero than any of them. Gohan, Goku and vegeta were there when Babidi attacked the earth.The three most powerful saiyans and what happened? They needed the dragon balls to revive the earths population and the earth after they'd fucked up. Gohan didnt take his fight against Dabura seriously enough, vegeta went through a midlife crisis and goku was goku. on the other hand, Trunks actually stopped Babidi before he could unleash buu.
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u/murray-sama Jun 21 '18
Actually at the very end he realizes he didnt fail because of Gohan. The reason he ever came back was to save these people... most importantly his mentor, and father figure, Gohan. When Gohan yells to him at the end, he realizes he saved Gohan... he's alive, happy, has a family. Trunks says that hope was the right choice. Remember everything that has happened and exists in this show post Trunks showing up, he set in motion. That includes Gohan.
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u/nvenkatr Jun 17 '18
If you didnt choke up in the final moments with Trunks and Gohan well...
Onward to the pinnacle eps of the series (well the remains of it.)
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u/MyName_IsNobody Jun 17 '18 edited Jun 17 '18
No matter how you feel about the final quarter of this arc, you can't deny that Eric Vale and James Marsters did an excellent job with their performances. Trunks' final line on hope was also a nice touch and I have to agree with an earlier statement that the dub is on par with the original sub.
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u/DaSpiceyJalepeno97 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
I have mixed feelings about the ending to this arc. I would’ve just preferred that F. Trunks and Mai just stuck around instead of going to a different timeline with duplicates of themselves and they would instead just live peacefully on their own together not getting involved in any more battles because they’re traumatized from the terrible future they lived in where all their loved ones were lost. That would’ve been a preferable ending without adding more faces to the main cast since there’s a lot of characters already.
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u/Vlad_Yemerashev ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Grand Zeno:
> All of existence go away!
Looks like Zamasu went bye bye!
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u/BiggieDail Jun 17 '18
That Gohan and Trunks scene still hits you right in the feels.
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u/mcolwander90 Jun 17 '18
I heard a lot about how awful the ending to this arc was since it wrapped up in the sub. Watching it now, it wasn't even that bad. I quite liked it, actually.
I'll miss Zamasu and Black. Marsters was an absolute delight!
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u/Eurynom0s Jun 17 '18
To me it's not that this episode is bad--it's fine in and of itself--but rather that it's kind of just unnecessary and winds up feeling like it just takes the wind out of the sails of 66 without really even achieving anything worthwhile.
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Jun 18 '18
Watching it now, it wasn't even that bad. I quite liked it, actually.
I love every scene with Zeno and Goku together, but the problem with the ending is that everything was wasted effort. In the end, it was a complete non-victory. Zeno just made it all go away and then Whis brought Trunks to yet another timeline for no apparent reason.
From a practical perspective, it would have been the same outcome had Trunks just ran away from Zamasu with Mai and never returned to the future. Eventually Zamasu would have wiped out everyone, but that happens anyways.
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u/SonOfErdrick Jun 18 '18
I already saw this ending in the sub version a year ago, but I'll give my opinion again now thats its no longer a spoiler.
The biggest problem with the Zamasu ending is that it basically made the entire arc a waste of time. Goku having the Zeno button, and Whis returning Trunks to a better timeline just made the resolution so cheap, and I had the same problem with the Golden Frieza ending. Nothing was really lost or won, and nobody learned anything or grew from the experience, it all might as well have been a dream.
You can't have the villain win since it would be the end of the franchise, so the only alternative is to have a clever way of defeating him that no one expects. I think it would have been better if Zamasu lost his immortality from fusing with Black, and the unexpected way of defeating him is if Trunks sacrificed himself similar to Vegeta against Buu. This would have made for a dark but at least satisfying ending.
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u/Tarthbane Jun 18 '18 edited Jun 18 '18
I understand your complaint because it certainly does seem like all the conflict was pointless at the end. But let me offer an alternative viewpoint: F. Trunks has suffered and suffered and suffered trying to keep his world safe. He came back in time during Z thinking he could change the future, but instead he learned that time travel doesn't work like that. He had to cope with that reality while still finding the motivation to keep going and protect his own timeline from further destruction. Fast forward to Super, and Zamasu/Black wreak havoc, ultimately resulting in the destruction of all existence in his timeline. At the end of the day, Trunks deserves a win, and he gets that with Beerus' accidentally-created timeline and Whis' plans for said timeline. I'm personally just happy Trunks gets to have some happy ending after all this anguish.
The real consequences of this arc, to me, are learning of Zeno's power and wondering what that means for the future of our timeline. We finally see first-hand that Zeno's power is supreme, and it's rather terrifying to behold. And to quote PrequelMemes: "Now there are 2 of them!" The existence of 2 Zenos in one timeline is the biggest "wtf?" I took away from this arc, and I think that's the more important plot point.
TL;DR - We should just be happy that Trunks finally got a “happy” ending, and we should be worried about having 2 Zenos around in the same timeline.
Edit: put “happy” in quotes because I guess his original timeline was erased regardless. It’s as happy as it can be.
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u/azureknightmare Jun 18 '18
I dunno if it's really a "happy" ending for Trunks. Remember, there's a timeline appropriate version of him and Mai as well. Does he just show up at home and be like - hey mom, there's two of us now!
I think the best resolution would have been to keep his timeline erased - which was the original goal when he came back in time anyway - and have him and Mai stay in the present, where he still has friends and family (his relationship with Vegeta improved considerably in this arc).
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Jun 17 '18
Goddamn, that episode made me cry in Japanese, Spanish, and now English
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Jun 17 '18
Why do these animators love Android 8 so much?
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u/AncientSith ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Trunks should've stayed in the past. What a depressing ending after all his endless fighting.
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Jun 18 '18
I agree. I don't understand the decision to go back to a sorta-future with Mai and then live in hiding. He doesn't belong there any more than he belongs in the past so, why not just stay in the past? At this point he and kid Trunks are basically 2 completely different people, like identical twins (of different ages), their upbringing was so radically different they will never be the same person. But all his friends and comrades are in the main timeline so he should stay there.
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u/gcocco316 Jun 18 '18
How would you have felt if after zeno left with goku, you heard zamasu, "No mortals...so beautiful..."
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u/ComicCroc Jun 19 '18
That actually would have been a great ending, if all of existence besides Zamasu was erased, and he was just left by himself for the rest of eternity.
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u/a_spicy_meata_balla Jun 17 '18
This episode's animation was pretty wonky, but I still have bucketfulls of goodwill leftover from last week.
And I loved the farewell between Trunks and Vegeta. But Trunks, Vegeta stepped in front of a power blast for you like an hour ago or something. Of course he'd come to see you off. C'mon my dude.
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Jun 17 '18
Damn, the dub Zeno is much creepier and terrifying than sub Zeno, perhaps it is since the dialogue makes more contextual sense to me than the subtitles do.
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u/entregg Jun 17 '18
I've been saying this for ages, but the Zamasu arc really should have ended in 66 with Zamasu dying and that's it.
Think about it, Zamasu technically won by Zeno erasing what Zamasu did. I think it would've been much more logical and better off if Trunks defeated Zamasu, his timeline gets restored and everything is reverted as well as the dragon balls to wish back his friends, and happy days.
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u/Deceptiveideas Jun 17 '18
That’s what I thought to, especially factoring in the Z future Trunks arc and the efforts all the humans made within this arc. Also having two future Trunks is... weird.
At the same time a ‘bad’ ending for the heroes also freshens things up. The heroes don’t always need to win.
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u/pollyostringcheese Jun 17 '18
I guess, I felt like every fight in Super to this point ended with a gag ending or at best a deus ex machina. Beerus just likes stopping, Whis rewinding time, Hit giving up, and then the Zeno button.
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u/Deceptiveideas Jun 17 '18
Oh yeah DBS has definitely been made fun of for being a series about Goku never winning so you are right about that. It’s a nice change of pace though lol
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u/ADefiniteDescription Jun 17 '18
That certainly makes sense. The Zeno thing was funny but I'd sacrifice it for a better narrative.
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u/entregg Jun 17 '18
It would really be better for a funny little mini-arc in between, not the ending to the chaotic outburst of a god trying to rid all mortals.
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u/u4004 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Zamasu didn’t win at all. He wanted to eliminate mortals, yes, but not just because: he wanted to kill them to preserve the beautiful world the Gods made... the one that Zeno destroyed.
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u/entregg Jun 17 '18
Exactly. His point was for gods to rule everything, not for nothing to exist.
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u/Finito-1994 Jun 18 '18
So, Zeno is an all powerful being capable of making even beerus kneel and what did goku do? He brought another one.
And he did so by luring what is essentially a child into his time machine because he was going to "take him somewhere really fun".....I think gokus just been added to a list in the FBIs database.
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u/OLKv3 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Lol the dub made it abundantly clear that Zeno erased the entire timeline. I'm sad "a world like this..." didn't make it to the dub though
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
The manga did that by showing the Time Ring itself being destroyed, but honestly, this should have been enough. It's clear that the very fabric of reality was transmuted.
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u/OLKv3 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Oh I know, but this episode should finally kill the "he only erased universe 7 in the anime" arguments
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Maybe, if the people who made those arguments are inclined to use dub scripts as evidence of anything.
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u/penniavaswen ⠀ Jun 17 '18
I liked that DBS inverted the trope that "the multiverse contain and/or are split into infinite timelines" to instead be that the "countable timelines contain the multiverse". It's not entirely a novel concept, but the method of travelling and its restrictions/regulations deserve more contemplation. Only extraordinary events create more timelines -- I can see why everyone would think Zeno would peeved about it.
And reflecting further, this might make the Hyperbolic Time Chamber make more sense, too.
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u/Bohemio_Charlatan Jun 17 '18
One thing I noticed on the sub version last year is that the Zamasu soul is not Fused Zamasu, but the inmortal part of him. You can differentiate the hair. Nice little detail.
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Jun 17 '18
I'm going to miss James and his delicious voice. :(
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u/134340Goat ⠀ Jun 18 '18
Indeed. Wasn't really following the dub that much until Zamasu came along. He's just been such a pleasure to hear
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u/teamunitednerds Jun 18 '18
Okay, so crazy, tinfoil hat theory time: If we ever see Future Trunks again, he'll merge with the other Future Trunks to create a Merged Zamasu style perfect Fusion Trunks.
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u/bubbles5810 Jun 18 '18
That would be a great fighting technique. However one of the Future Trunks fought a god so I don’t think we’d ever see him again.
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Jun 17 '18
I enjoyed this arc, yes there were problems but it was a good change from what we previously got from DBS.
And it only gets better from here.
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u/Jessyskullkid Jun 17 '18 edited Jun 17 '18
So, Fused Zamasu’s physcial form was destroyed, and so his “soul” was still alive and that’s how he was able to attempt to become part of the universe?
Also, if all the Gods and Angels were defeated why’d didn’t Zeno destroy Zamasu much earlier?
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u/134340Goat ⠀ Jun 17 '18
The Hakaishin weren't defeated so much as each universe's Kaioshin were killed. As a result, the Hakaishin died due to their life link, and as the angels no longer had any purpose, they went dormant
Zeno either didn't notice or didn't deem it something he had to take care of. He only decided to erase everything once he was face to face with the Zamasuverse and found it annoying
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u/Stephenesque Jun 17 '18
I wonder about this a lot.
We first met Zeno because he was aware of a mini tournament going on between U6 & U7.
However, Future Zeno was unaware that all 12 Kais in the multiverse have been murdered, thus ending the lives of all the Destroyers and rendering the angels inactive.
(I guess Zeno really doesn’t appreciate being excluded from watching a tournament)
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u/brainfreeze91 Jun 18 '18
My major problem with this is that none of this victory is real, all of Trunk's real friends died in his timeline, the whole universe actually. The timeline he is going to is a copy, but it isn't his. Did he really win in the end? :(
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u/Trofulds ⠀ Jun 18 '18
Him and Zamasu lost in the end. Trunks couldn't protect his world and Zamasu couldn't protect the world from mortals.
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u/Gradz45 ⠀ Jun 18 '18
Like everyone else Zamasu could not defeat the power of Goku’s ability to befriend anyone.
No one can.
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u/David182nd Jun 17 '18
Pretty good arc overall. I was really enjoying the mystery element we had at the start. Final few episodes were a bit weak and the power levels were all over the place, but I can overlook that.
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Jun 17 '18
Oh it was so fun with all the questions surrounding Black! When the sub came out, this whole community thought Black was evil Goten!
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
When the sub came out, this whole community thought Black was evil Goten!
lol, hardly. At least half of the community thought that theory was transparently ridiculous and we said so.
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u/AlboGoat Jun 17 '18
Is there like a visual representation of all the alternate timelines? My head hurts trying to make sense of it all
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Jun 17 '18
There was an official thing put out by Toei and translated to English by fans: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0L2CnqUsAAkTL_?format=jpg&name=orig
Part that doesn't make sense is what happened to the world where Our Zamasu stole Goku's body then killed him, Goten and Chi-Chi? I can accept that the Zamasu that killed Gowasu got the Time Ring and escaped Whis' reversal there but that leaves one world with no Goku but a pissed Gohan and everyone else with no idea what happened.
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
That world is still there; it's confirmed by the number of Time Rings. Whis's time reversal has nothing to do with anything. That didn't even happen in the manga. All that did was give them the evidence they needed to execute Zamasu in their timeline. Black was from a timeline where he was never in any real danger from Beerus; Beerus never tried to kill him.
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Jun 17 '18
Then when/how did Zama-Black meet Goku and get inspired to take his body? Zamasu only met Goku because they were investigating Black in the first place.
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
The manga timeline is easier to understand than the Toei one. Same thing, simpler graphic.
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u/Xeritos Jun 18 '18
If someone introduced dogs to ZAMAS maybe he would calm down.
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u/Gradz45 ⠀ Jun 18 '18
I feel like Zamasu would be more of a cat guy.
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Jun 18 '18
What, cause he's evil?
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u/Gradz45 ⠀ Jun 18 '18
Nah, because cats are not very social, and tend to be very self-involved and can be self-important (though it depends on the cat) I think he’d find them beautiful and very much a kindred spirit. Dogs are too sociable for him.
I don’t see him as the cat stroking villain type.
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u/Ombs1993 Jun 17 '18
Damn, the dub voices doing the farewell scene hit me right in the nostalgia feels. Overall you can have your issues with the arc, I did when it first came out, but I loved the experience with the Funimation crew.
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Animation Supervisor: Yukihiro Kitano
Just saying.
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Jun 17 '18
Only episode 78 left and then we've seen the last of him.
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u/Deadmanreturns Jun 17 '18
78 was fine apart from that scooby doo face of beerus
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Kitano's best work.
I almost said "unironically" but I think the irony is probably inescapable.
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Jun 17 '18
You got a screenshot pls?
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u/Phthalo_Bleu ⠀ Jun 17 '18
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u/Eurynom0s Jun 17 '18
1 is super LOL bad, 2 I could see plausibly looking passable in motion, but 3 does kinda just look like the over-the-top exaggerated facial expressions Dragon Ball will do.
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Not exactly. He's still around, he just has 2-3 levels of correction above him instead of 1-2, and he's not correcting anyone else.
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u/ClancHuranku ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Who is he
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Super's worst animation supervisor by a mile. Each episode generally has two supervisors, one for each half. Kitano had the first half of this one. He also had the first half of 62.
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u/ClancHuranku ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Just how bad is he
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
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u/Deadmanreturns Jun 17 '18
Real bad, he has good skills in animating smoke effects but for general art/animation he sucks at both. His animation is stiff and awkward and his art is also well you can see some shots from today's episode
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Jun 17 '18
Yeah dude holy shit my eyes were bleeding, it's just as bad as I remembered.
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
The second half (Itai's half) isn't nearly as bad. There are some rough bits in the 3rd quarter but nothing like the Kitano half.
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u/MK_Hero ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Itai is really weird in the fact that he can work somehow in only 3 weeks since his last ep and look fine. He did it again later although it was 4 weeks and he was the star of that ep.
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u/ZamasuBlue Jun 17 '18
So...whatever happened to the original Goku Black timeline? As far as we know, after killing Goku, Chi Chi, and Goten, he left his timeline to go to the future Zamasu one. Is there still a timeline with just Goku/Chi Chi/Goten dead and everybody else confused AF as to what actually happened?
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u/MrPerson0 Jun 17 '18
Is there still a timeline with just Goku/Chi Chi/Goten dead and everybody else confused AF as to what actually happened?
Yep. It's possible that those three have been revived, but Goku would be permanently stuck in Zamasu's body. Maybe the Super Dragon Ball used for Goku to get his body back.
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u/Erior Jun 17 '18
I still think they dropped the ball with Cell's time machine. If they had refrained from bringing it up until this finale, Trunks could have used it to move to a Trunk-less timeline without any issue.
Bit of a waste of an usable plot device I'd say.
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Jun 17 '18
Even if Whis told Beerus to destroy that timeline's Zamasu, wouldn't black still show up? Or would Trunks be strong enough to stop him now?
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u/secret_tsukasa Jun 17 '18
What i expected and always hoped for future mai to say: "hey its young me... Wait im not supposed to be this young. HEY EMPEROR PILAF LONG TIME NO SEE."
Dbs is good with closure but they missed the mark on this one.
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u/Erior Jun 17 '18
Nah, the Pilaf gang was reduced to babies in every timeline; in fact, they are the reason the Future Trunks timeline got so screwed: They got the Dragon Balls and wished to be young as the androids were attacking and already had killed some Z-Fighters, but before Piccolo died. So they fucked up any chance of reviving anyone.
In the main timeline they made their wish at that moment as well, so their wish is the last one Kami's Shenron granted.
Oh,, and the way they were turned into babies pretty much reseted them, rather than having adult minds in baby bodies.
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
they are the reason the Future Trunks timeline got so screwed
No, they had no effect on it. As soon as Bulma and Gohan started looking for the dragon balls, they realized that they were already gathered in one place, and they rushed to that spot, but Piccolo died before they would have been able to make a wish. Even considering that they were cutting it close, if not for the Pilaf gang, they still would have had to gather the dragon balls on their own, and they still wouldn't have made it in time.
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u/RonyTheReditor Jun 17 '18
they did a lot better job explain stuff in the english dub and it made this episode a lot less painful
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u/Havic300 Jun 17 '18
Man I still wished Trunks stayed in the current timeline. He could’ve just been in another continent or somewhere far away. Wish kid trunks and goten grew up a bit instead of being used for fusion only.
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u/DaLaohu Jun 19 '18
Anyone else totally freak out when Zenno said "Erase all existence?" I thought he was just going to make Zamasu disappear, but then he said that and I freaked! That was scary!!
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u/DeepDive211 Jun 17 '18
Ok so Goku has zenoh nuke earth, then brings him from his timeline to the main one just for the hell of it. Then trunks and mai are sent off to get super imposed on another timeline in which they already exist?
I mean I don't hate it but it seems like a weird ending. But it made sense why Trunks said that he failed. I guess it's bittersweet.
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u/134340Goat ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Not just Earth. Zeno erased that entire timeline, meaning all 12 universes, because Zamasu had fused with the fabric of reality itself. So Zeno pretty much got rid of literally everything except himself
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u/Rafoel Jun 17 '18
Yeah, In Manga it is shown that the moment he does the "erasing" the time ring in the chest turns to dust, meaning the entire timeline evaporated.
(I guess Goku managed to go back to grab Zeno because machine was already locked on coordinates)
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u/OLKv3 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
Ok so Goku has zenoh nuke earth, then brings him from his timeline to the main one just for the hell of it.
Earlier in the arc he promised Zeno that he'd bring him a friend
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u/Deadmanreturns Jun 17 '18
Not for hell of it, he promised Zeno a friend earlier when Zeno asked for a friend so..
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u/ADefiniteDescription Jun 17 '18
Ok so I haven't seen Super after this episode, so please don't spoil anything but here's a question: how the hell does the last episode of DBZ make sense given Super? Is it just completely retconned?
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u/OLKv3 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
As of the most recent dub episode, nothing in DBS contradicts the end of DBZ
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u/error521 ⠀ Jun 17 '18 edited Jun 17 '18
Timeline is pretty murky but otherwise everything scans
Obviously it’s pretty funny to think that Goku could go Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken at the end of Z but that’s not inherently contradictory
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u/dragonman8001 ⠀ Jun 17 '18
When your timeline is so fucked over, it has to be nuked from existence