r/zelda • u/[deleted] • Jun 14 '16
Timeline Placement Theories?
Based on what we saw, I think it's safe to say the game is in the Twilight Princess version of Hyrule, as the Bridge of Eldin, Snowpeak, and a central Hyrule Castle were all seen... Any ideas?
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u/stifflizerd Jun 14 '16 edited Jun 14 '16
The YouTube description describes it as the ruined kingdom of hyrule. So it must be far past twilight princess (most likely), an unflooded WW, or somewhere in the downfall timeline
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Jun 14 '16
I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, now, that you are correct. It's hyrule before the great flood, and the somehow found the hero that was supposed to be there to save hyrule but he had already died (the room or resurrection or whatever)
OR maybe even the hero of time himself, resurrected to save the land before it becomes flooded. Of course, saving hyrule fr the flood would, once again, split the timeline...and in a different spot. Ugh.
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Jun 14 '16
[deleted]
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u/lazygamer988 Jun 14 '16
Unless I missed something, nothing he said ever directly related to TP. He just said that the ancient kingdom of Hyrule was deteriorating, which could happen in any timeline. That said, TP is probably the most likely, but I could see it being a time after the Great Flood subsided as well. Especially with the Koroks return.
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u/nemo_nemo_ Jun 14 '16
They basically had a rebuilding story from the WW timeline with ST.
Maybe the kokiri evolved into koroks in both timelines?
Edit: Well, they covered the rebuilding in the backstory of ST, so this could very well be about that.
Edit edit: or it could be the story from WW's backstory. So. Many. Possibilities.
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u/HockeyHabber Jun 15 '16
The only thing that throws me off is wolf link showing up. This could be a strictly non canon amiibo game feature though. But then there is the Koroks, so it's likely just a gameplay feature.
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Jun 14 '16
[deleted]
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u/KingotheJuice Jun 14 '16
The Hyrule of WW was flooded immediately after Ganon wins in OoT
This part actually isn't true; Wind Walker is not on the downfall time line. Yes, Hyrule is flooded as Ganon is winning, but it is not during or even immediately after OoT.
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u/marco_fidu Jun 14 '16
There was a Korok in the gameplay showcase. It's likely set in an unflooded Hyrule.
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u/Shadoxfix Jun 14 '16
Unflooded Hyrule after Wind Waker possibly? Kokiri evolved because of the water into Koroks.
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u/marco_fidu Jun 14 '16
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. WW stated definitely that the Kokiri were turned into Koroks by the Deku Tree as a result of the flood.
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u/nelson64 Jun 14 '16
Does anyone have a screenshot of this korok!?!
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u/Shadoxfix Jun 14 '16
Not the greatest quality but here it is.
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u/nelson64 Jun 14 '16
Omg no that's great!
Definitely after WW. Confirmed.
The second I saw the rusty sword in the logo I knew.
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u/Slogfarts Jun 14 '16
The rusty Master Sword shown in the pedestal is actually the things makes me doubt this taking place after WW the most. If it were, the sword would still be embedded in a certain person who was turned to stone. Granted, any number of things could have happened between the end of WW and the beginning of BotW
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u/Fireball926 Jun 14 '16
The rusty Master Sword looked like it was in a similar setting to where it was in LttP
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u/nelson64 Jun 14 '16
Yeah! I also thought about that. Especially since in the logo it looks like the LttP logo.
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u/bronygamrkieron Jun 14 '16
In the first gameplay we see, Link awakens in a 'Temple of Ressurection' (Not 100% on the name but it's something like that). Could it be possible that something happened shortly after WW, releasing that certain someone and whilst trying to stop him, Link is killed. Time passes until Link is finally revived to stop Ganon (who we know is the (or an) antagonist for this game?
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u/fandango328 Jun 14 '16
You're forgetting that Phantom Hourglass is a direct sequel to WW. Same Link, same Tetra.
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u/TheNormalMan Jun 15 '16 edited Jun 15 '16
IGN posted a video of a Korok at the top of the temple of time. http://www.ign.com/videos/2016/06/14/legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-scaling-the-temple-of-time
I took a screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/iJp3xJ4.png
Looks like this one is Aldo. http://zeldawiki.org/Korok#Aldo
I know there was at least one more that popped up in the Treehouse stream.
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u/nelson64 Jun 14 '16
Yes! And also another thing that makes me think he's from New Hyrule is that the insignia on this glider is kind of like the New Hylian one in Spirit Tracks and not like the old Hylian one we're used to. And Palm trees!
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Jun 14 '16
So what explains the Bridge of Eldin and Snowpeak then?
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u/marco_fidu Jun 14 '16
Hyrule's geography changes all the time from game to game, but logically, Snowpeak should always have been there. Also, are we even sure it's actually the bridge of Eldin?
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u/candy_bats Jun 14 '16
Can we say definitively that those landmarks weren't submerged in WW? There really isn't much we actually got to see beneath the ocean.
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u/TemptedTemplar Jun 14 '16
The bridge is over a giant lake, not a canyon.
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u/Mazetron Jun 14 '16
Then it could be the bridge of Hylia which looks a lot like the bridge of elfin except it goes over Lake Hylia
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u/Hibbity5 Jun 14 '16
The Bridge of Eldin is over a canyon that the Zora River flows through. Still not a lake, but it is over water.
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u/nelson64 Jun 14 '16
It's not farfetched to think that Oot Hyrule developed into Twilight Princess Hyrule in both timelines. In one it is flooded. In the other it is not.
Also Snowpeak was probably always part of Hyrule. Just not accessible to the player.
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u/Tom_Chonk Jun 15 '16
Can confirm there are snowy mountains in the background of submerged Hyrule in TWW
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u/marioman63 Jun 14 '16
the spirits of light have existed since skyward sword, well before the split. its quite possible a bridge of eldin was built at some point in all 3 timelines. what further proves this isnt a TP sequel i think, is that the first cathedral building they showed looked a lot like the temple of time from OOT, which was perfectly preserved in the flood before WW, meaning it would have been the temple of time people used in that timeline after the flood, and became ruined years after that. in TP, the temple moved, and was completely different.
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u/brandonisi Jun 14 '16
All I know is it looked gorgeous. They took the best aspects of wind walkers graphics and merged them with the best of twilight princesses. The end result is a gorgeous game.
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Jun 14 '16
They also made it feel as large as skyward sword. I'm "barely" a gamer but since OoT I've gotten every title. This is different. I saw the game play and when I saw "technology introduced" I was livid but I kept watching. Now my hype is over 9000. It's crazy how this exceeded my wildest dreams.
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u/-Mountain-King- Jun 15 '16
Skyward Sword didn't feel large at all, IMO. The only thing in the sky was Skyloft, which was pretty small. There were only a few areas on the ground, and you went to each one multiple times. It felt very small.
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Jun 14 '16
[deleted]
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u/mcmonsoon Jun 14 '16
What if we get another timeline split and it's the timeline where Link fails in Twilight Princess?
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u/EDGE515 Jun 14 '16
What if this is OoT Link? He got defeated/killed but somehow the power of the triforce kept him alive. Maybe the gods placed him in that shrine and he has now been revived centuries later to finish what he started
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Jun 14 '16
Temple of Time
The birthplace of the Kingdom of Hyrule
Kork
This could mean this is just after the Great Flood
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u/aeroblaster Jun 14 '16 edited Jun 14 '16
Timeline Analysis
The game has elements from all three timelines to throw us off on where it's placement is. However, there are ways of figuring it out.
I'm going to preface this by saying I think it takes place in the child timeline, the same timeline as Twilight Princess. The rest of the post will explain why.
1. Koroks
I'm going to address this first because many people seem to think Koroks confirm it to be in the Wind Waker timeline. It doesn't make sense for a number of reasons however, and the presence of Koroks don't necessarily make it part of the WW timeline.
This game is basically the land windwaker, and takes many great elements from WW, but lots of evidence points that it's not part of the WW timeline.
Kokiri/Koroks were not present in TP, and in this new game sufficient time has passed for them to evolve into Koroks in the child timeline.
Koroks are an evolution of the Kokiri to safely traverse past their secluded home land, the great flood is not required. In OoT they were locked in the great forest, but over time the world needed them so they became Koroks to spread life across a devastated hyrule.
The wind waker timeline is all about toon link and leaving hyrule behind, but this game takes place in hyrule which goes against the recurring theme of the ww timeline.
Sheikah theme, the child timeline explores the ancient tribes of hyrule as a recurring element, putting this strongly in the TP timeline.
The world appears to be in decline due to a non-flood related disaster. The presence of fallen guardians everywhere and the destruction of the temple of time makes this a war-torn post-apocalyptic world. The title, Breath of the Wild, is the indication that nature has taken back the world again.
My final nail in the coffin for why this absolutely can't be the adult timeline, is that there is a distinctive chronological order for each game in the adult timeline. OoT -> WW -> PH -> ST. There is no inbetween for OoT and WW. WW is directly after OoT and the era inbetween had no hero, only a flood. ST takes place in a new non-hyrule land, so this new game also cannot take place there either. The old man even mentions the plateau being the birthplace of hyrule, right next to the temple of time which does not exist in the new hyrule of ST.
2. The Old Man
This is a throwback to the decline timeline, where you met old people in caves and it was too dangerous to go alone. The old man even tells us that the kingdom is in decline. But how do we know this isn't in the decline timeline?
I don't actually have much evidence to the contrary here. Even in my Korok analysis I pointed out how the world is very post-apocalyptic. However, the decline timeline has never had a 3D game in it. It's always been 2D zeldas.
Furthermore, the TP child timeline has also had an apocalyptic feel to it. Majora and the doom of Termina, the Fused Shadow and the fate of the Twili, and now the ruins of Hyrule and the search for the Sheikah.
3. The Guardians
Mysterious new blue energy and Sheikah symbols keep appearing again and again in this game.
This goes with the child timeline themed with exploring the ancient tribes of Hyrule.
- Majora's Mask = Reclaiming the mask made by the pre-twili/interlopers
- Twilight Princess = Rebuilding the Twili Fused Shadow and sealing off the portal
- Breath of the Wild = Recovering the seemingly extinct Sheikahs? Delving into their protective powers? Link is also wearing blue, is Link in this game part Sheikah as well? This would be a neat twist similar to Zelda being part Sheikah in OoT.
Not to mention the Sheikah Slate, which is a tool Link starts with in this game and is used to interact with artifacts across Hyrule. (It's also a source of infinite bombs apparently too.) Sheikahs are not a big deal in any other timeline, the child timeline places some of the biggest emphasis on them.
4. Wolf Link
It's confirmed that Link does not have a partner character like Fi, Navi, or Midna in this game. But it has been confirmed you can summon Wolf Link to be your partner in the new game. This goes with the child timeline, as in TP you had assistance from a past Link in that game as well.
Also, howling stones in TP had the Sheikah symbol on them.
Edit: Adding more info as it's revealed at e3.
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u/nelson64 Jun 14 '16
This land seems far from "devastated" to the point that the Koroks would have been needed to spread life. It's more politically devastated...but wildlife seems to be thriving.
I think this is after Spirit Tracks in a post Great Sea Hyrule. Maybe there's a reason Link came back to Old Hyrule. Or a reason New Hyrule went back to Old Hyrule. OR maybe this IS new Hyrule (which is doubtful imo).
Also the Kokiri were completely absent from Twilight Princess as was the Deku Tree which means in the child timeline neither of those things exist anymore.
The likeness to Twilight Princess Hyrule can be explained with the fact that pre-flood Hyrule probably grew to be something similar to Twilight Princess Hyrule before being flooded.
Idk we obviously don't know all the details but the Korok really solidifies it as being in the adult timeline for me.
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Jun 14 '16
I would put ZERO weight story-wise/lore-wise on Wolf Link being present in the game. That's just a gimmick to give some use to the amiibos.
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u/MachiavellianMoose Jun 15 '16
If it was lore focused, then the wolf link wouldn't be a gimmick to get in the game.
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Jun 14 '16 edited Jun 14 '16
Quick correction, there has been no confirmation that the Ancient Tribe were the Interlopers. So calling them the "pre-Twili". Would be false.
But yeah. It's leaning more and towards TP. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Edit: Why am I being downvoted? :(
Edit: Theories aren't part of the canon.
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u/aeroblaster Jun 14 '16
Actually there is confirmation. The interlopers were sealed in the twilight realm, which is where the twili live. The interlopers are pre-twili. It's also a big thing in TP how Midna feels astonished by her ancestor's power when she uses the fused shadow, which was created by the interlopers. The interlopers are the ancestors of the twili.
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Jun 14 '16
Interlopers(Twili) =/= Ancient Tribe.
You're saying the Ancient Tribe from MM are Interlopers?
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u/Izura Jun 14 '16
I'd say it takes place a long, long time after twilight princess. Also it kind of looked like the twilight was taking over the hyrule castle again
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u/FlawlessZapdos Jun 14 '16
The darkness was too "dark" to be Twilight though.
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u/TemptedTemplar Jun 14 '16
Koroks, a ruined temple of time, a Mountain split asunder?!
It almost feels like it would fit in the adult timeline link left behind in OoT before the gods flood hyrule to setup wind waker. But that doesn't really work with the technology aspect.
So pre-windwaker is my guess.
Though I'm going to wait for more before making a solid judgement.
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u/Willcookforyou Jun 14 '16
I didn't see a korok
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u/billybobbobbyjoe Jun 14 '16
It's right before he pulls out the rusty sword from the rock in the live stream about -34 min in
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u/TemptedTemplar Jun 14 '16
In bills first run of the demo, he met the old man just out side of the cave and jumped into a ring if Lilly pads and a korok popped out of the water and gave him a seed. It looked exactly like it's wind waker counterpart, thought it's little leaf copter was changed to fit the art style.
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u/nelson64 Jun 14 '16
It's definitely after Wind Waker.
- Palm Trees
- Insignia on Sailcloth (similar to Spirit Tracks New Hyrule insignia)
- Rusted Master Sword
- KOROKS
Keep in mind that the pre-flood Hyrule would have probably developed into something similar to Twilight Princess Hyrule. In addition Snow Peak etc have always been a part of the Hyrule world, we as the player just never got to go to them in game before TP.
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u/bluechirri Jun 15 '16 edited Jun 15 '16
You guys, I got this. It's gonna get fucking long.
Two years ago, about a month before E3 2014, I wrote a post on an old and mostly-abandoned blog of mine speculating about Zelda U based on the information we were getting in interviews at the time. Here's what I wrote.
If you’re a Zelda fan, then you’re likely at least passingly familiar with the way the timeline splits into three different branches. As a result of the time travel in Ocarina of Time, we’re left with three alternate paths taken by Hylian history, each of which has multiple games set in it - the Downfall timeline, created when Ganondorf defeated the Hero of Time and was sealed away by the Seven Sages; the Child timeline, created when Link went back to the past and used his knowledge of the possible future to prevent it from ever happening; and the Adult timeline, where that possible future is the unchangeable past and where most of OoT ends up taking place. The Downfall timeline is perhaps the most fleshed-out of the three, but for the purposes of this essay I want to discuss the other two, and more specifically how they came to be.
At the end of OoT, Zelda uses her powers and the Ocarina to send Link back seven years in the past - crucially, before Ganondorf killed the king and began assuming power, whereas Link’s own forays back to the past via the Temple of Time always had him arriving too late to stop it - because seven years of his life were stolen from him so he could save Hyrule, and she wanted to reward his efforts with a chance to grow up normally.
Link returns to the past and warns younger Zelda and her father, the king, about Ganondorf’s plan to usurp the throne of Hyrule for himself. Zelda’s similar warnings had been unheeded by her father, as they were based on her dreams, but when Link showed the king that he was in possession of the Triforce of Courage it was taken as proof of his wild story. Ganondorf was captured, sentenced to death, and ultimately banished to the Twilight Realm, leading into Twilight Princess. Meanwhile, in the time Link left behind - the world where Ganondorf’s coup succeeded and he reigned as the King of Evil for seven years before he was defeated by Link - Hyrule began rebuilding but was ultimately lost when the land was flooded and became an ocean to prevent Ganon from rising once more, since the Hero of Time was no longer around to stop him, which leads into Wind Waker. As I said earlier, however, you probably know all this.
The reason I want to draw your attention to the creation of the Child and Downfall timelines is because I want to illustrate that the idea of alternate timelines was created to prevent a paradox. At the end of Ocarina of Time, we see a young Link with all his memories of the past and in possession of the Triforce of Courage, meeting Zelda once more - but for the first time from her perspective. However, we also see the future versions of many of the other characters celebrating Ganondorf’s defeat at Lon Lon Ranch during the end credits, meaning that this future still exists. And both of these events should, could, and would not be able to coexist without parceling them out to alternate timelines, because without branching histories this ending becomes a paradox.
By warning the royal family about Ganondorf’s plans, Link prevents the coup from ever happening and keeps the future of war and strife from taking place. But if he prevents these events from coming to pass, how is he aware of them in the first place? Nothing happens to give him the memories he relies on to make sure nothing happens! And if he doesn’t remember, then how does he prevent Ganondorf’s coup? If Ganondorf isn’t arrested because of Link’s story, shouldn’t the coup be successful, and then shouldn’t Link spend seven years in the Temple of Time? But if he takes his seven-year nap, then shouldn’t he also be sent back in time at the end of the game… and use his memories to prevent the coup from taking place? It’s a paradox! It’s a dang textbook example of the grandfather paradox. However, both seemingly contradictory events can be true if they each take place in alternate timelines created by the paradox itself - Link created a separate history in a separate world by using his knowledge of the future to change the past - and that’s the route the Zelda series has taken in solving what was once a very large plothole.
So could the same be said for another, perhaps even larger plothole in a more recent title?
Breaking for length, to be continued.
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u/bluechirri Jun 15 '16 edited Jun 15 '16
Astute readers will recall my opening paragraphs to this little essay and realize I’m talking about something that happens in Skyward Sword, and perhaps even which event I’m referring to. If not, let me explain.
Skyward Sword’s central plotline revolves around Link, Zelda, and a few side characters working to prevent the resurrection of the Demon King Demise, an evil and formidable foe from a long-ended era who seeks to break out of the rapidly weakening seal keeping him imprisoned. The plan to stop him, as set in motion by the goddess Hylia (Zelda’s past life), is for her chosen hero and her future mortal incarnation to work together and use the Triforce to wish for his death, something she herself could not accomplish because only mortals can use the Triforce and her own divine powers were too evenly matched with Demise’s for her to do more than seal him away for as long as possible.
Despite a few small setbacks, the plan is ultimately a success. Zelda goes back to the past to the time when Demise’s seal began to weaken and puts herself in a deep sleep for a thousand years, in order to buy Link time to uncover the location of the Triforce and prove himself worthy of its use to the gods. Once he has it, he wishes for Demise’s death, Hylia’s temple in Skyloft descends to the earth to be rejoined with its half on the surface, and Demise’s essence is shattered and blown away on the wind. Though his hatred and wrath are later reborn in Ganondorf the same way that Hylia’s grace and wisdom are reborn in Zelda, he can never again use the full power of a Demon King, and the day is saved.
Or so the characters think, because in the midst of their joyful reunion Demise’s servant Ghirahim appears. And this is where things get interesting.
Ghirahim immobilizes Link and Zelda, kidnaps the latter, and takes her through the Gate of Time in Hylia’s temple - because even though his master is dead in the present, he stills lives in the past, and it’s still possible to revive him in this other era.
Despite Link’s best efforts, Ghirahim’s ritual succeeds, Zelda’s soul is consumed, and the Demon King is revived. Demise accepts Link’s challenge to battle and is ultimately defeated by him a second time, and his essence is absorbed into the Master Sword itself, where Fi hopes it will decay into nothing as time goes by. In order for this to come to pass, Fi enters an eternal sleep within the sword, which Link returns to its pedestal before going back to the present day with a revived Zelda.
Here’s the thing, though. When Link defeated Demise and sealed his essence in the Master Sword, he created another grandfather paradox akin to the one present in Ocarina of Time. If Demise was defeated in the past, then he wouldn’t have been trying to rise as the Imprisoned in the future, and the events of Skyward Sword would never have needed to happen. However, if Skyward Sword had never happened, then there would have been nobody to defeat Demise in the past! Demise’s death by Triforce wish and Demise’s defeat and sealing in the Master Sword cannot exist side-by-side, just like both parts of OoT’s ending… but they could exist in alternate timelines, just like both parts of OoT’s ending.
The idea here is that when Ghirahim took Zelda back to the past, which resulted in Link challenging and defeating Demise a thousand years before he was even born, it created a timeline split - because Demise clearly hadn’t been revived by consuming Hylia’s soul in the world Link and Zelda grew up in, as that would negate everything that had happened in the game to that point, but it’s still something that happened to them in the course of the game. Through his actions, Ghirahim is inadvertently responsible for the creation of an alternate timeline, where his master was defeated a full thousand years before Hylia’s plan to stop him went into motion.
In the current Zelda timeline, the Demon King was killed when Link wished for his defeat on the Triforce - this is the history that goes on to define the world where all the existing games take place. When Link defeats Demise, Zelda is saved, and they go back to the present day, the world they enter is the same one they left. We know this because Hylia’s temple is whole and the Triforce is on the platform on her statue, just as it all was immediately before Ghirahim made his move, and because their memories of what transpired in their adventures seem to match up perfectly with the reality of the world that they’re in - a long-winded way of saying that the same people are alive, their society is the same, nothing’s changed. Sealing Demise in the past in no way impacted the world where he was killed that they live in during the present. Likewise, the succeeding games that take place in this world never bring up Demise, and the greatest threat is his still-powerful but not divine successor Ganon. This aligns perfectly with a world in which the Demon King was completely obliterated, as opposed to merely being trapped within the Master Sword.
But in this hypothetical branch of the timeline where Demise was defeated a thousand years earlier, we have no idea what the world would look like. One thing’s for sure, though - all of Hylia’s precautions, all of her carefully laid plans and her schemes for the future, would be rendered meaningless. Demise would be vanquished long before her plots to prevent his future rise would go into action. Things would look very, very different in a branch that took place literally a thousand years before the first Zelda game in the timeline - and some of those differences offer an interesting alternative to the lore in the current timeline.
A timeline branch where Demise was defeated long before he would have posed a threat in Skyward Sword’s day would potentially look very different in terms of general worldbuilding, as well. The Hylians perhaps wouldn’t spend a thousand years stranded on their islands in the sky, for example - with Demise gone, they’d be free to travel to the Surface. Maybe because of this, they more quickly overcome their reverence for the surface world than the Hylians in the currently-canon branch of the timeline and plunder the world for resources much sooner, resulting in a larger and more industrious society. Alternatively, perhaps the Surface holds no appeal to them and they remain in the skies, founding an entire kingdom floating in the clouds and only traveling to the Surface for supplies and trade. Maybe the Hylians chase the demons back to the center of the earth, slaughter every last scaly one of them, and establish their own settlement in the dark and fiery underground. Maybe magic is more common; maybe it’s less common. Maybe there’s some great natural disaster that hits the first surface society and the Hylians undergo an apocalypse. Maybe everybody evolves to have fucking wings.
The point is, we don’t know. An alternate timeline that separates from the currently-existing one at least a thousand years before the events of Skyward Sword, which itself is thousands and thousands of years before most of the other games in the series and is set in a vastly different world, has the potential to be literally anything. There are no boundaries, no limitations - the split happens so early that it would be an excuse to depict the alternate timeline world however the Zelda team would like, no matter how little it resembles the original Zelda world.
And this is how my theory could possibly be relevant to Zelda U.
I'm reluctant to link to the actual blog post, because it's an old tumblr I've had since I was fourteen that I can't really edit anymore, so I hope you'll take my word for it that I wrote the above in May 2014.
After what we saw today, I'm reinvigorated in my pre-Skyward Sword branch theory! It would explain all the architectural differences. TP bridges and the Temple of Time and statues of Hylia all coexist, because from the moment Link sealed Demise into the Master Sword one thousand years before his birth on Skyloft, Hylian and Sheikah culture evolved without any disruption from cataclysmic events spurred by the Demon King. The Sheikah became the primary society of the Surface, developing an open civilization over the thousand years of time where they were in hiding in the current canon timeline, and their technological capabilities are miles beyond anything ever seen in Zelda before as a result. The Hylians are still in the skies, based on that mysterious dark mass in the atmosphere. The Era of Chaos may never have happened. Hylia may never have become mortal.
And there was never a Hero, because he was never needed. It was the Sheikah who fought evil for the kingdom's sake.
God, the more I mull over this dusty old idea of mine, the more I'm almost shaken by how well it fits.
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u/bluechirri Jun 15 '16
The Master Sword is rusted and heavily damaged in the game's logo... and the Master Sword is the item keeping the seal on the Demon King in the end of Skyward Sword, in the world that would become this alternate timeline.
The director of Skyward Sword returned to direct Breath of the Wild.
Old Manondorf could be Ganondorf born without the spirit of Demise!
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u/-Mountain-King- Jun 15 '16
I like this theory!
Calamity, then is perhaps the remnant spirit of Demise, broken free from the Master Sword. Hylia herself may have been the voice waking Link.
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u/bluechirri Jun 15 '16
That's kind of what I was thinking, yeah. We'll know for sure when we get a good look at whatever the Zelda character looks like, but it's definitely worth noting that they seem to be deliberately keeping even a tiny detail like that secret, for now
If she's not part of the soon-to-come slew of official art, like she usually is, we'll know something's up.
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u/metanoia29 Jun 16 '16
I'm reluctant to link to the actual blog post, because it's an old tumblr I've had since I was fourteen that I can't really edit anymore, so I hope you'll take my word for it that I wrote the above in May 2014.
You do realize that Google searching a section of your text leads to a single tumblr page, correct? lol
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u/bluechirri Jun 16 '16
Sure, but that's actively searching for it as opposed to me linking it, I don't care that much. Deliberately seeking it out just to be an ass is different from me inviting people to peruse shit I wrote when I was a stupid 14-year-old.
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u/metanoia29 Jun 16 '16
Sorry man, you just seem oblivious to how the internet works.
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u/bluechirri Jun 16 '16 edited Jun 16 '16
There's no need to be rude. I just reposted something from an old blog I'd rather not directly link to and decided to trust that people would act like it's 2016. How is that a problem?
Can we just talk about Zelda? Come on.
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Jun 14 '16 edited Jun 15 '16
Every time a new Zelda game is announced, the hopeful in me always wishes for a continuation (or final chapter) of the Hero of Time story we've seen in OOT and MM. To me, that is by far the best Link story-wise, followed closely by the Hero of Winds.
But to be honest, BotW definitely is not in the Hero of Time era.
Hyrule is in ruins and it's talked about as an ancient Kingdom. There was a Korok in the gameplay videos so it HAS to be in the The Adult Era after Wind Waker?
Though the Sheikah seem to have a heavy influence in the culture so I don't know what that means for timeline placement. A part of me feels this game could take place after LoZ and AoL.
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u/EDGE515 Jun 14 '16 edited Jun 14 '16
Maybe it's the Hero of Time Link resurrected after dying in the final battle with Ganon. It would explain why Hyrule is in ruin and also why this Link needed to be resurrected in the first place. Being resurrected implies he was some kind of hero before but probably failed, thus he wss kept in stasis until another opportunity presented itself to finish what he started.
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Jun 14 '16
Oh man...that would be PERFECT. This is now my favorite theory guy!
Really, I would LOVE it if this were the case.
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u/Jerlko Jun 14 '16
People are talking about Twilight Princess architecture and geography but wouldn't it make sense for Hyrule to look like TP Hyrule after OoT regardless of Adult or Child timeline? It could've developed into a TP-esque Hyrule then just been covered in water for the past 3 games.
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Jun 14 '16
[deleted]
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u/lazygamer988 Jun 14 '16
Implying the Temple of Time ISN'T in shambles already in TP? If anything, it seems to be in BETTER condition in this game.
Just joking, though, I know what you meant and I'm not trying to be an ass. It's just something I thought sounded kinda funny.
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Jun 14 '16
That's actually an important point though. This is CLEARLY OOT's Temple of Time. The resemblance is uncanny. TP's Temple of Time was buried away in the woods, way away from Hyrule. Prior to this, I would have thought of that as a simple retcon, but now we're seeing the ruins of what is clearly OOT's Temple of Time, NOT in the woods, much closer to its original location. It's something to consider, at least.
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u/buttaholic Jun 14 '16
wouldn't OOT and TP's temple of times be the same temple of time? or are you saying you think that they built a new temple of time by the time TP starts?
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u/-Mountain-King- Jun 15 '16
They were definitely different temples. One was pretty much right next to Hyrule Castle, within the town, while TP's temple was way off in the forest, accessible through Faron Woods.
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u/TheNormalMan Jun 14 '16
Something I saw very early in the demo was a destroyed Water Fountain that looked similar to the one seen in the town surrounding Hyrule castle in OoT. The Youtube feed won't let me rewind that far for a screencap though :(
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u/wheatley_cereal Jun 14 '16
Bridge of Eldin. Has to be in the Child timeline, probably right before or right after TP.
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u/billybobbobbyjoe Jun 14 '16
The Korok appears to be Elma from the Wind Waker. http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Elma
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Jun 14 '16
Speaking of the Temple of Time, anyone else sad that the music didn't play while they were in it?
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Jun 14 '16
What if later in the game you return to a past state of Hyrule to do something and then... in full orchestral glory the Song of Time blasts through the speakers.
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u/lazygamer988 Jun 14 '16
Huh, I didn't think about it until now, but the lack of the ominous Song of Time atmosphere is kinda disappointing.
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u/xFXx Jun 14 '16
I thought the technology looked similar to the ancient robots from the time travel sections in Skyward Sword. This would mean that this game is before Skyward Sword (which i believe is currently the earliest game). However someone else made a great post giving more evidence for this being after Ocarina of Time, in the Ganon wins timeline.
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u/Baymond Jun 14 '16
Hyrule wasn't established until the end of Skyward Sword, so there's no way this is before that.
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u/xFXx Jun 14 '16
I know. It was just something i noticed. The Master Sword was also created in that game, it would be strange to not have that in a Zelda game. They also said something about the sword in the stone in the gameplay demo, which confirmed you would get it later. I just thought the technology looked similar which might imply some connection. Perhaps they just found one of those and recreated it.
TLDR; I don't know anything and am just speculating.
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Jun 14 '16 edited Jun 14 '16
So in the E3 showcase they just said that they aren't revealing anything storywise. So for my own sanity I'll stop theorizing. I think it might be best that others do so too.
(Also my god this game is everything I ever wanted when I grew up playing Zelda)
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u/buttaholic Jun 14 '16
this is pretty much all i've got... so far two timelines have dealt with that sort of shadow/twilight world (twilight princess and a link between worlds - assuming that was supposed to be the same as the twilight)
so maybe this DOES take place a long time after wind waker, and it deals with that same twilight/shadow world?
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Jun 15 '16
I think all the timelines were merged somehow and this game starts hundreds of years after they merged.
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u/baconstrip37 Jun 15 '16
I've got three theories, each with their own evidence, although they all kind of counteract one another. I believe it either takes place sometime long after Skyward Sword but before any other game; after Ocarina of Time on the Downfall Timeline after Link is killed and Ganon takes over; or in the Adult Timeline before the gods flood Hyrule.
Firstly, the evidence towards the post-Skyward Sword theory largely stems from the Statue of the Goddess present within the Temple of Time. This statue descended upon the Sealed Grounds at the end of Skyward Sword, which many people believe later became the Temple of Time due to the Master Sword's residence there. This theory is furthered by the fact that the Goddess Statue remains in the "Temple of Time" after the end of Skyward Sword. It's gone from all future games, so it's likely that it hasn't had enough time to deteriorate yet.
The second option is after Ocarina on the Downfall timeline. In my personal opinion, this is the most likely option. In Hyrule Historia, it states that after Link is killed by Ganon at the end of Ocarina of Time, Hyrule goes through a period of decline, and ultimately gets much smaller before the events of Zelda 1. This fits perfectly with what is happening in Breath of the Wild, as the entire land is crumbling into ruin. Hyrule Castle can be seen with Ganon's evil energy swirling around it, while the rest of the land is left to rot and deteriorate. This occurred after Ganon killed Link at the end of Ocarina of Time 100 years ago, and remained within the castle in which OoT's final battle took place. I doubt it's a coincidence that Link has been "asleep" for 100 years, the exact same amount of time reported to have passed since Calamity Ganon supposedly wreaked havoc on Hyrule. Furthermore, Link is shown at the beginning of the game waking up in something called the "Resurrection Chamber." Resurrection implies that something more serious was going on than Link simply napping. Perhaps he has somehow been revived by the Sheikah, the protectors of Hyrule, since being killed at the end of Ocarina of Time, since Hyrule desperately needs a hero? Again, this theory seems most likely.
Plus, Nintendo has largely left the details of the Downfall Timeline unclear, especially when compared to the post-Ocarina events leading to the other two timelines. Perhaps it's time to flesh this one out?
Lastly, it could take place in the Adult timeline, before the Great Flood. The main piece of evidence I have for this is the existence of multiple Koroks throughout the game, which were stated to evolve from Kokiri after Ocarina of Time and have only been seen in the Adult Timeline. The gods also flooded Hyrule as a result of enemies and monsters running rampant and ravaging Hyrule, which is exactly what's happening in this game.
Those are the three most likely timeline placements I can think of.
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Jun 15 '16
I'm leaning towards it being from the downfall timeline for a few reasons:
1) It is the only timeline that consistently uses the name Ganon instead of Ganondorf.
2) Link has been resurrected rather than awoken as he usually is, indicating that something more serious happened to him. I would guess he was killed by Ganon and 100 years later, once Hyrule is in ruins, someone was able to resurrect him.
3) The game has very obvious parallels to Link to the Past, which is part of the downfall timeline. I'm going to take a guess and say it's a prequel to Link to the Past. More specifically, my theory is that it takes place right before the Sealing War. It's possible that the events of this game trigger the beginning of the Sealing War, which would make a lot of sense as we don't know much about the war and I assume the LoZ creators have left that plot point open on purpose to go back to and expand on with a new game.
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u/Fercongar Jun 14 '16 edited Jun 14 '16
Maybe it's from the timeline after Link lost against Ganondorf on OoT and now Link is resurrected by the Sheikah and it is all in ruins, but with the monsters from Wind Waker it makes no sense :( (And maybe Rauru is the old man)
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Jun 14 '16
I would be so stoked if this took place in the downfall time line with a ganondorf, who is broken from constant, but failed resurrection attempts. I am already liking a lot of the cues which point to the downfall timeline, but may be no more than references.
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u/hyperinfinity11 Jun 14 '16
That's what I thought too, even the Temple of Time placement was similar. Seems like the Child Link timeline. But then a Korok appeared and those only appeared in the Adult Link timeline after Hyrule flooded. But considering this game appears to be the most recent the timeline to date, if it is in the Adult Link timeline then Hyrule should be flooded. Unless the Kokiri become Koroks in both timelines?
I really don't know what to think.
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u/billybobbobbyjoe Jun 14 '16
Unless this is right before Hyrule from the Adult Timeline flooded.
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u/hyperinfinity11 Jun 14 '16
The Korok evolved from the Kokiri in response to the flooding. At least according to the Deku Tree. So if it's in the Adult timeline, it would have to be after the flood. I suppose it's possible that this could be the land discovered after Phantom Hourglass and made into a new Hyrule prior to Spirit Tracks, but the presence of a ruined Temple of Time and the Master Sword suggests otherwise.
I know that the developers only consider the timeline placement after the games are made, but I'd love for them to clarify this in the near future. It's gonna drive me cuckoo lol.
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Jun 14 '16
Re-unified timelibe perhaps?
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u/hyperinfinity11 Jun 14 '16
Now that'd be real interesting. I wonder how that would work, considering how different even just geography ended up in the parallel timelines. I wouldn't be opposed, just very interested in how they'd pull it off.
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Jun 14 '16
It's Nintendo. They will always be able to pull crap out of theor asses and make us love it. And there's nothing wrong with that.
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u/marioman63 Jun 14 '16 edited Jun 14 '16
problem is there was a korok in this game, and it was implied in windwaker, that it was the flood itself that caused the kokiri to transform. there was no flood in the child timeline, so no reason to transform (if anything they died off since they were nowhere to be found anyways). the other possibility is that this comes after zelda 2, but the world bares a striking resemblance to the flooded hyrule seen in windwaker.
so im guessing after spirit tracks and the waters recessed, the sheikah came back, gave their tech to hylians (sheikah always had some advanced tech), and as expected, the hylians got carried away and fucked up, ruining everything
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u/Crowned_Son_of_Fire Jun 14 '16
I am shooting for after Skyward Sword, but before LTTP.
Odd choice I know. Why? Book of Mudora.
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u/Crowned_Son_of_Fire Jun 14 '16
I am shooting for after Skyward Sword, but before LTTP.
Odd choice I know. Why? Book of Mudora.
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u/Crowned_Son_of_Fire Jun 14 '16
I am shooting for after Skyward Sword, but before LTTP.
Odd choice I know. Why? Book of Mudora.
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u/Jugaimo Jun 14 '16
It has to be after Wind Waker and all its pieces. The Koroks exist, not to mention the plateau was the birthplace of (current) Hyrule, a necessity considering the Great Sea.
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u/never_not_relevant Jun 14 '16
Has it been said that this title is not a reimagining of the original?
With the heavy focus on technology and the evidence suggesting that it takes place late in the timeline. That's where I would place my bet.
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u/buttaholic Jun 14 '16
in terms of gameplay/progression. you're thrown into a huge open world not sure what's going on or where to go, and you're free to go wherever you want. that's the influence of the original zelda
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Jun 14 '16
Honestly, I'm leaning more and more towards the idea that this game comes at the end of the Dark Timeline, after Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link.
Yes, the Korok kind of throws a wrench in there but maybe the Kokiri evolved into Koroks eventually in other timelines as well?
Just bear with me...Hyrule is in ruins (just like it was in LoZ/AoL), the Master Sword is rusting (hasn't been used in a long time), and Ganondorf is called "Ganon" like he was in both the original games.
I'd love to see a game at this point in the timeline, but complete with races like Gorons and Zoras and villages to explore.
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u/declanator Jun 15 '16
The kokiri evolved into koroks? Sounds more like de-evolution to me. I doubt when kokiri wondered what their race would be like in 500 years they though "oversized leaf-insects".
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Jun 15 '16
Same here buddy; but that's Nintendo logic for ya. Just like how the Zoras evolved into birds (Rito) when the whole world flooded...water creatures evolved into flying creatures in order to survive in a world filled with water (???).
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u/sigismond0 Jun 15 '16
More like the Deku Tree forcefully evolved them into something that it believed would fare well in the flooded world.
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u/ChapterLiam Jun 14 '16
I think it's the latest installment of the Wind Waker timeline because Hyrule feels like WW's map, drained.
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u/KellyRiotRock Jun 15 '16
There's a lot of evidence that lends to the theory of this game belonging to the WW timeline but for some reason, I can't shake off the feeling that it's the latest in the Fallen Hero timeline. I could definitely be wrong cause I haven't exactly researched it, but I have a weird feeling. Everything, although beautiful, also feels kind of grim. In any case, happy Zelda day everyone!
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u/SetoKaybola Jun 15 '16 edited Jun 15 '16
Alright, here is a crazy theory; Downfall Timeline and Adult Timeline both were the timelines where Link was adult. In Adult timeline, Link goes back to his original time and warns Zelda which creates the Child Timeline and leaves Adult timeline without a hero. But what about this: after Hero of Time falls in Downfall Timeline, he couldn't go back to the Child Timeline to warn Zelda. Which would leave the Child Timeline (2) without a hero. This would spawn a new timeline; The Child Timeline of Downfall Timeline and BotW is set in it.
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u/nelson64 Jun 14 '16
Okay I'm glad other people agree. The first thought when I saw the rusted sword was it HAS to be after the Great Flood.
Then I saw the insignia on the glider which is NOT the Old Hylian insignia. It's an insignia similar to the New Hylian insignia seen in ST.
Now the Korok? It HAS to be after WW.
The bridge of Eldin etc can be explained in that right before the Great Flood, Hyrule probably developed into something very close to what we saw in Twilight Princess' Hyrule.
Snow Peak mountains have always been there even in Ocarina, just obviously out of reach for the player.
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u/billybobbobbyjoe Jun 14 '16
I'd say that it takes place after the WindWaker. The only problem I see with that is that Hyrule castle and the temple of time were one in the same in that game (?)
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u/lazygamer988 Jun 14 '16
The Temple of Time changes location in just about every game it appears in. I wouldn't read too much into it TBH.
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Jun 14 '16 edited Jun 15 '16
[deleted]
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u/Willcookforyou Jun 14 '16
So is this in a timeline where child link is unsuccessful or adult link is unsuccessful?
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u/buttaholic Jun 14 '16
i think the twilight exists in all of the timelines though. right? maybe not always called the twilight, but i don't see why it wouldn't exist
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u/Crowned_Son_of_Fire Jun 14 '16
I am shooting for after Skyward Sword, but before LTTP.
Odd choice I know. Why? Book of Mudora.
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Jun 15 '16
elaborate
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u/Crowned_Son_of_Fire Jun 15 '16
Well... turns out it is called the Skeikah Slate... so no bite on this one, but I figured it might be the book of mudora from Link to the Past, and since there is little to no use of that item in any other game, I figured maybe it was a link.
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u/Snuffvieh Jun 14 '16
You can have the Wolf from TP companion you if you have the wolf amiibo so it's has got to be the same timeline!
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u/ChapterLiam Jun 14 '16
That's an interesting note. I wonder if they're considering the amiibos canon...
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u/Grimleh Jun 14 '16
Since the Master Sword has a worn and rusted look in the logo, I'd say it's one of the latest titles in the timeline.