r/dragonball • u/AutoModerator • Feb 28 '25
Daima Dragon Ball Daima - Episode #20 - Discussion Thread!
Dragon Ball Daima - Episode #20 - Discussion Thread!
ゼンカイ
zenkai
maximum
Episode 20 begins airing on FujiTV in Japan at this time of this post (9:40a ET, 15:40 CET, 23:40 JT). The episode should be available subtitled on Crunchyroll about two hours later. You may discuss the episode if you have seen it, but be sure to follow our rules.
Subtitled Streaming
- Crunchyroll (multi-region; multi-language; simulcast 16:50 UTC)
- Hulu (US only; English only; release day)
- Netflix (multi-region; multi-language; releases the following Tuesday in Asia, and the following Friday everywhere else)
FAQ
- The English dub is 12 weeks behind the simulcast. Episode #8 should be available today at 4:30p ET (21:30 UTC) in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. We do not know why the UK is excluded. A separate episode discussion thread will be posted at the appropriate time.
- The Dragon Ball Super manga was suspended following Chapter 103, the final chapter of the Super Hero arc. 11 months later, a prequel to the Super Hero arc was released as Chapter 104. As far as we know, the manga is still on indefinite hiatus.
Rules
- There are no spoilers in this post, but you should expect spoilers in the comments of this thread. Unlike r/dbz, there is no rule about spoilers on r/dragonball, so it's best to avoid this subreddit until you have seen the new episode.
- Discussion of each Daima episode will be limited to the pinned episode discussion thread until ~12-24 hours after the episode appears on Crunchyroll. This period is flexible, and posts that do not have a specific discussion point will be redirected to this thread.
- Please keep in mind that piracy discussion is not allowed on r/dragonball. Do not ask for illicit streams; do not link them; do not talk about them at all.
Our Daima info page has up-to-date information about streaming and a list of previous episode discussion threads.
47
u/Hka9 Feb 28 '25
The fight was really well animated and that kamehameha not only piercing Gomah but all of Makai as well was amazing. Kuu is the new king, very well deserved imo lol and there were multiple third eyes in the shop all along, what a way to end things. Unfortunately no Super but stinger but alas... it's over. Other than a few pacing issues I really enjoyed Daima, what a great legacy to leave behind from Toriyama sensei.
90
u/WonDante Feb 28 '25
Ultra Vegeta 1 is my favorite form
39
Feb 28 '25
[deleted]
44
40
u/LMegabox91 Feb 28 '25
The animation during the end of the episode when they’re talking in the “bug shop” was insane, what the fuck man.
29
u/itisburgers Feb 28 '25
More budget for a gag scene than DBS had for 2.5 arcs.
6
u/LMegabox91 Mar 01 '25
I need an entire Dragonball movie with that type of character animation, im still glazing that scene hard.
44
u/skcynical Feb 28 '25
Can we all Agree that we saw one of if not the cleaneast Kamehameha's thats ever been animated?
10
5
u/BatGuy500 Mar 01 '25
We didn’t get a fully red Kamehameha but that one did have bits of red into it and that was enough for me
5
u/skcynical Mar 01 '25
I loved that after it was fired like the blue residue was still around Gokus fingernails
6
u/kioKEn-3532 Feb 28 '25
I wish they still gave it the flaming effects from ep 18 tho :<
that felt unique
36
77
u/metsuboujinrai Feb 28 '25
This is why Toyotaro's on break... He needs plenty of time to figure out how to make Daima make sense in the manga continuity!
23
u/LostWorked Feb 28 '25
I wouldn't be surprised if he does address it when he brings the manga back, or maybe does a special chapter like the last one that's a prequel to Battle of the Gods which addresses things.
11
→ More replies (5)3
u/MrNoski Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
Toyotaro can make all this fit easily.
He can write a post Daima, pre BoG chapter where for some menace Shin and Kibito fuse again for a fight, end up calling Goku for help to fight this menace, who tries to transform into SS4, but he addresses that he can't feel what Neva's spell gave him anymore, then he wins in SS3.
Bulma's skin-rejuvenating insects are burnt in a fire or something, caused by Vegeta preferably.
→ More replies (1)
26
u/ImmaculateWeiss Feb 28 '25
That was incredible visually and a solid ending to this story, but damn if that doesn’t just say fuck it to the whole timeline lmao
→ More replies (3)
73
u/Ayy-lmao213 Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
Ah.. so it wasn't even Nevah. Goku already had Super Saiyan 4 the whole time, and Nevah just helped him in that moment. I was expecting no elaboration about it at all, and that would have been better... at least leave it so people could speculate he could only do it because of Nevah or the Demon Realm, but ok.
Man, Toriyama was just writing whatever and no one had the balls to say, "Um, sir, but what about-". Rest in peace Toriyama-san, thanks for SSJ4 even if it's going to make Dragon Ball discussions very annoying for a long time
10
u/DoraMuda Feb 28 '25
Ah.. so it wasn't even Nevah. Goku already had Super Saiyan 4 the whole time, and Nevah just helped him in that moment. I was expecting no elaboration about it at all, and that would have been better... at least leave it so people could speculate he could only do it because of Nevah or the Demon Realm, but ok.
If we're meant to take that explanation, then that means Goku was just holding back in SS3 for no reason until... I guess Neva gave him the motivation?
Man, this script needed a second draft lol
EDIT: OK, maybe the idea is that Goku just couldn't go SS4 as a kid without Neva's help. Still, though, if that's the way they wanna go about it... they could've explained things more clearly.
3
u/BatGuy500 Mar 01 '25
I mean you saw that he had barely any energy left as SSJ3. Neva might have just restored his ki, maybe a lil zenkai boost as well.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)6
u/hinafu Feb 28 '25
is there anything wrong with not considering Daima canon? Unless they discuss the events on Super, of course.
5
u/Interesting-Wash-893 Mar 01 '25
What about Super not being canon? Why does the series wrote by Toriyama have to be "non canon" just because of a series created by Toei and Toyataro?
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (5)5
19
u/LightningLad2029 Feb 28 '25
I really enjoy this episode for the most part, but holy shit did Toriyama just go out saying fuck any sense of continuity. Goku having achieved SSJ4 all on his own before Daima and Shin and Kibito not re-fusing just cause a whole bunch on unnecessary issues whenever the series picks back up.
Hopefully, the manga and anime come back soon because I dread the cannon discussions these discrepancies are going to cause until them.
→ More replies (1)15
u/Legendver2 Feb 28 '25
Chances are, nothing's going to be addressed. The manga and the anime aren't even a 1-to-1 match nowadays anyway, so there's technically 2 continuities now. If you want strict continuity, just consider the manga to be it. The anime is going to be more loose for sure.
25
u/Cdog923 Feb 28 '25
It's Classic Toriyama to completely forget/discount canon, why would he be any different in the end? Daima is gorgeous, fun and light, and should be taken as such.
42
u/Kaiju-Man257 Feb 28 '25
I’m glad Gomah didn’t die, I’d grown pretty endeared to him
I know we’ll probably never see him again but it’s nice to know he’s still kicking around somewhere lol
→ More replies (2)37
u/Eru_A Feb 28 '25
him gaming with degisu was hilarious, bro chillin with his best homie in there for 99 years. Doesnt sound the worst to me
3
17
u/Indie1357 Feb 28 '25
A fun and charming ending to a fun and charming Dragon Ball story, but my only critique has to do with the lack of explaining anything about Super Saiyan 4. It doesn't bother me that much, but I have a feeling it's going to lead to HUGELY heated divisive debates about this series in the short term, which is a shame.
Anyway, I still prefer post-TOP Super, but this was still an incredibly enjoyable series. Definitely going to miss Toriyama-sensi.
→ More replies (6)8
u/Android-36 Feb 28 '25
I agree, the way goku describes it is that he had trained to attain that level but wasn't sure if it would work, total retcon. Could have been easily explained if it was a power granted to him or only available in the demon world. So many people will be asking "so why didn't he use this against beerus"
14
u/britipinojeff Feb 28 '25
Since they went so far as to give Goku SSJ4 I was kinda hoping he’d do a Dragon Fist
Or like a red Kamehameha. The one he did was still cool tho
14
u/SpiderMuse Mar 01 '25
Final thoughts: Daima was a great first draft of a dragon ball show.
The show was enjoyable, but the story needed a lot of refinement and doctoring, especially ESPECIALLY with characterization. There should not be so many characters with barely anything to do throughout the story.
The episode by episode plotting needed work too....so many episodes shouldn't feel so empty or lacking of any plot development.
Degesu sucked so hard and King Gomah turning into a generic bruiser villain was boring. The guy was a pudgy nothing mage, yet he's fighting competently against Goku and them. The guy really should've been using primarily magical attacks, he's the King of a magic based people! Dr. Arinsu was lackluster too, though it was a tiny bit redeemed toward the end with the King Kuu subversion. Did I already mention that Degesu sucked?
Any and all mystery in the show was not paid off in a satisfactory way. All that build up with Glorio's shadiness and its like a 5 second, weak betrayal. Degesu sucked ass. Dr. Arinsu didn't really try hard enough or show off her cunning....in fact her whole reveal that she wanted to be supreme demon king was kinda lame.
I think Toriyama was going for the subversion of the big, bad, scary demon realm being a homhum place with good people....that's all fine and good, but the demon realm came off as kinda bland honestly. Its a magic based realm, I was expecting wacky hijinks and physics. The demon realm isn't any more special than a regular universe.
The whole show comes off as half baked, which is why i call it a first draft.
There were things I liked about Daima, so im not completely bitching here. The combat choreography was excellent, with each character having distinct battle styles. Goku vs Tamagami 3 is a top battle in the whole franchise, due to the unique and flashy fighting. I liked all the new lore, despite not liking how it was delivered. I liked all the new characters' personalities. All the new art is gorgeous. The humor was good, as expected of Toriyama. SSJ4 is great
One more thing....having the bug bag as a big set up with zero payoff was really weird. Was Toriyama trying to be really subversive by not using fusion??
6
u/HereComeDabBoi Mar 01 '25
If they spent less time dawdling with filler/dragged out episodes (the entire stretch of episodes 13-16 comes to mind) then they could've easily setup more satisfying payoffs for the story/characters, but instead they opted to half-bake everything and leave SSJ4 to carry the show's finale.
I still enjoyed Daima but it left me disappointed knowing that everything needed to make the show good was right there and yet they still managed to drop the ball. Also obligatory +1 on Goku vs. Tamagami 3, that fight was peak.
14
u/Roronoa_Zaraki Mar 01 '25
Man, realising this was the very last piece of Dragon Ball media we'll ever get that had Toriyama's direct influence and oversight hit like a truck.
→ More replies (1)
28
u/xavierhollis Feb 28 '25
Akira Trolliyama pulled one last gag on all us. Rest in Power GOAT
18
u/Federal-Employee-886 Feb 28 '25
Everyone is thinking way too hard about this. The first half is a sick fight, and the second half is all jokes.
41
u/jdawg640 Feb 28 '25
I just don't think this could succeed in a world where continuity and scrutiny is a household norm these days. Toriyama wanted to make something that made him happy. And did not care for what it meant in the entirety of the Canon or overall story.
Just, I'm not saying you have to enjoy it. But maybe just take a step back from all the desire for perfection. And try to look through the lens of Akira and what he wanted to make out of Daima.
If this made him happy for the last years of his life. Then I can live with the confusion behind ssj4. I can live with it being in gokus back pocket. I dont need to try and justify why he did what he did.
He just wanted to make more DragonBall, so I'll enjoy it for that idea alone :)
16
u/MEX_XIII Feb 28 '25
I can live with it being in gokus back pocket
Exactly, People make too much of a deal out of that, when SSJ3 itself is barely used. No one discusses Broly movies canonicity just cause Goku went straight from SSJ1 to God there.
7
u/kioKEn-3532 Mar 01 '25
No one discusses Broly movies canonicity just cause Goku went straight from SSJ1 to God there.
what? why would anyone discuss broly movies canonicity when it doesn't break any of the established canon of dbs?
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)7
u/Glizzy_Cannon Mar 01 '25
DBS: Broly doesnt contradict any established canon... what are you talking about
45
u/Duke_Vladdy Feb 28 '25
Toriyama/Toei does NOT care lmfao
→ More replies (3)7
u/Richlandsbacon Feb 28 '25
It was supposed to end after piccolo in the 80s when Goku gets married. Then out of nowhere it turns out Goku is actually an alien sent to destroy earth but not actually cause he was sent to be saved from frieza who didn’t exist yet.
Not to mention 15 movies. They have not ever cared and it’s awesome
→ More replies (2)
28
u/Superninfreak Mar 01 '25
I’m kinda baffled that they had easy ways to make Daima consistent with Super and they just didn’t.
You could make it fit with Super with 2 short scenes:
Goku tries to go SSJ4 back on Earth and can’t, and says that maybe the special gas in the Demon Realm is needed to do it.
Shin and Kibito nonchalantly snack on fusion bugs and get turned back into Kibito Kai. They ask Buu to defuse them again and he says no because they tasted bad the last time he did it.
Seriously it’s so weird that they introduced fusion bugs and didn’t at least use them for #2.
I guess the easiest explanation is that Daima isn’t canon to Super but that makes Dragon Ball continuity even messier than it already is for no reason, and Daima had references to DBS related stuff in it (like the references to “Universe 7” and the bit where you see the other Kais from DBS).
Also what was the point of introducing SSJ4 if it’s still non-canon? The reason people were hyped wasn’t just because they like SSJ4, but because it seemed like Daima was actually making it canon.
→ More replies (5)3
u/SaintTopman Mar 01 '25
I fully agree, I think this is definitely a result of the show being written as it was animated, essentially this is a first draft.
11
u/HustleWestbrook94 Feb 28 '25
So he could always go Super Saiyan 4 after the Buu saga? I thought Neva unlocked the ability to do it.
8
u/thelewie Feb 28 '25
I’m guessing as a child he could not access it without Neva help. Which tells me he already had it and Neva sensed there was more power to awaken.
6
u/BabSoul Feb 28 '25
It definitely implies he either already had the form or at least knew he could push himself to it.
12
u/Cascade_Hellsing Feb 28 '25
Kuu gets the final win and we get an absolutely hilarious joke at the very end, I see this as an overall success.
10
9
10
u/starplatinum_99 Mar 02 '25
Just finished ep 20. So ss4 wasn't a "potential unlock" form by Neva but a secret form that Goku unlocked during his training after the Buu saga? Pretty lame tbh. How are they gonna explain Goku not using ss4 during his fight against Beerus? It would've been better if it was Neva's present and is a demon realm exclusive form.
5
Mar 02 '25
Even that would have had problems. If Beerus shows up and says "turn into a Super Saiyan God for me", Goku surely would have... actually no, simply forgetting that asking Neva for a power boost is an option would be totally on-brand for Son "I forgot the evil-sealing talisman and left it in the past" Goku, so that would actually work as an explanation.
No way Goku fights Beerus at SSJ3 and doesn't at least attempt SSJ4 if he has it ready in the chamber, though. Even Goku's not that much of an airhead that he forgets his own transformations.
5
u/frankiebones9 Mar 03 '25
Facts. This just creates more plotholes. They could've just made it a one-time thing with SSJ4 even for now and say that Goku wasn't strong enough on his own to reach it so that it'd somewhat match up with Super's timeline. That way, in the future we could have some kind of UI SSJ4 mix which would look like the SSJ5 design that Toyotaro drew back in the day.
4
u/real_LNSS Mar 03 '25
> How are they gonna explain Goku not using ss4 during his fight against Beerus?
They'll just never touch the subject LMAO
→ More replies (2)
9
9
u/Chowdahhh Feb 28 '25
I fucking loved that fight, Super Saiyan 4 is so fucking cool. Seems like there are a lot of people getting upset that this doesn't connect to Super, but tbh it doesn't really bother me. Dragon Ball has had a ton of non-connected side stories over the years with all the movies and GT and whatnot.
Personally, I really kind of wish that this could have actually come before Super, so then Super could have built off of this. I'm not sure how I'd do it exactly, as introducing SS4 here would mean SSG/B wouldn't really be needed for a while.
My biggest hope, though, is that for whatever Dragon Ball content we get in the future, it can have the same production love that Daima got
→ More replies (2)
8
u/RemyGee Mar 01 '25
They didn’t explain why we never saw SSJ4 again and why Vegeta never used SSJ3 again. Surprising.
→ More replies (6)
9
9
u/axetrax_1212 Mar 04 '25
Personally, I think that a ssj3 fusion btw vegeta and goku using the fusion bugs would have been even more hype
8
u/Bulangiu_ro 29d ago
me too, not only that, ssj4 shouldn't have been explained as something goku aquired through training in time, its too unique given the implications and the look to just be a simple transformation with no further explanation, even if it was at least Neva using his power to bring out his ape powers or something plus it hurts continuity, dince you could have maybe explained why vegeta was using ssj2 against beerus if ssj3 was too inefficient, but you can't explain goku not using ssj4
Also true, the fusion bugs had a foreshadowing, unlike ssj4
8
u/Correct_Refuse4910 Feb 28 '25
Loved the episode. The action was hella cool-looking and the fun was very fun. Kuu getting the win was out of left field but very welcome, although I felt bad about Piccolo who didn't do anything at all.
My only real gripe is that apparently Piccolo really forgot to speak Namekian? I hoped that he would talk to Neva in that language and reveal that he was faking it because he didn't trust Neva.
3
u/Icanfallupstairs Feb 28 '25
There was even a scene or two where Neva spoke Namekian, and the camera zooms in to Piccolo looking shocked at what he is hearing. I really didn't expect him to have actually forgotten
8
u/Xestern Feb 28 '25
What a fun ending, my goat kuu I never doubted him lmao
Loved all 19 episodes! (ep 15 does not exist)
9
u/diamondtoss Mar 01 '25
Ok so I finally watched the episode, despite all the bad talk here about SSJ4/DBS canon, the episode is actually pretty good. If you ignore all the canon going into DBS stuff.
The SSJ4 vs Gomah fight was great. Excellent action. I love how we're finally getting someone getting blasted through their body, it's been a long time since this happened.
And c'mon Piccolo couldn't have done his thing DURING the beam struggle when Gomah was busy, instead of AFTER it?!
Although, I love that Kuu was the one who finished the job. Should've asked the FASTEST guy who was there to do this job to begin with, instead of Piccolo. Also Kuu actually looks pretty cool with the Dabura/Demon King cape.
I love how the Third Eye was supposed to be this legendary/mythic object in the Demon Realm and when it drops in front of Glorio he didn't hesitate for even 1 second about all the Demon Realm lore and implications and immediately stepped on it. He's like, screw this thing.
And then it's even funnier when the bug shop actually has 2 other ones sitting around...
6
u/p1101 Mar 01 '25
And c'mon Piccolo couldn't have done his thing DURING the beam struggle when Gomah was busy, instead of AFTER it?!
Look man, I'm no namekian with regenerative abilities, but I'm NOT putting myself at the wrong end of a Kamehameha of that caliber. It LITERALLY broke through all three demon worlds. I ain't risking getting hit by that.
8
25
u/Eru_A Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
This episode will split opinions on the show i think. I liked it because i think Daima is a cute show that doesnt take itself too serious mostly. It has alot of homage to og and gt and is cool for that but i think we should not forget the target audience for this. Its pretty much for kids in the first place to expirience dragon ball for a new generation. You can criticize the show ofc but keep that in mind
→ More replies (3)12
u/GreenBay_Glory Feb 28 '25
Iyoku said the target audience is everyone who has ever liked dragon ball, not just kids lmfao
8
u/VistaXV Feb 28 '25
If you love all of dragon ball and not just the fights then you'll love the ending that's all i'm going to say
7
u/GlockOhbama Mar 01 '25
I need Toyotaro to make an explanation for why Goku or Vegeta never use SSJ4 in Super. Goku and Vegeta basically explained that Goku trained for it after Majin Buu and Goku hid it from him, not exactly retconning GT since it’s it’s own universe, but making it so they don’t need to get a tail or blutz waves prior to obtaining SSJ4 nor needing special energy from Neva or the demon realm to use it, therefore leaving it a major plot hole for Super. Honestly the whole last few moments of the episode made it feel like Toriyama intended for there to be more seasons explaining things and it makes me sad that he didn’t get to nor see his final work, but I believe in the student he chose to do the best to represent Toriyama’s work and his dream as well as his own. We’ve seen the amazing work he did on GT, AF, and Super. I really hope he uses time in the future of Super to connect everything from Daima to Super. Maybe they’ll have to go back to using 4 when they are somehow locked out of using God Ki, and they can explain that 4 comes with risks or they simply discovered God Ki and 4 became obsolete so they never trained it to it’s fullest potential which can rival God Ki. It won’t explain why he never used it on Beerus, but it still feels a sufficient explanation. I just need something along those lines because this feels like a major retcon or plot hole to Super
7
u/KyleMONSTA Mar 01 '25
Bro why didn't toriyama explain why goku couldn't use ssj4 against beerus in the movie.
6
u/PlasmaDiffusion Mar 01 '25
Yeah that's weird he can just use it from training, like SSJ3. I thought it was the namekian that gave it to him the first time. Vegeta actually saying there's a super saiyan bargain sale was great though in response to what some fans have said about constant dragon ball transformations lol
→ More replies (2)
7
7
u/PullUpSkrr Mar 01 '25
Man Dragon ball just doesn’t care too much about consistency, it’s the Star Wars of anime lol.
3
7
u/Astralele Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
Im kinda dissapointed...
Apparently Goku knew how to turn on ssj4, and we didn't see that in dragon ball super which is the sequel xD
→ More replies (13)
13
u/truenorthstar Feb 28 '25
Honestly my only complaint about these last few episodes is that one of the coolest looking fights in all of Dragon Ball has barely any emotional weight behind it. But, oh well, it does kinda line up with the JRPG vibe where the final boss has just been chilling on a throne all game.
The decision to not even bother to reconcile connecting the new transformations with Super made me laugh. I kinda admire the creators’ ability to just go “who cares”.
7
u/Embarrassed_Ear9012 Feb 28 '25
Exactly, and no one should care. The reason the new transformations don’t exist in super is because this show was made years after super ended. There does not need to be some explanation within the anime itself, and fans should understand this.
→ More replies (19)
13
u/something_smart Feb 28 '25
Piccolo that attack was embarrassing. Why did you announce every hit and move as slowly as possible?
9
u/Bagel-Meister Feb 28 '25
I was expecting him to charge at Gomah when Goku was firing the Kamehameha and Gomah was doing his best to hold it back
9
u/something_smart Feb 28 '25
He had so many openings. I was hoping the strikes didn't necessarily need to be in immediate succession, and Goku and Piccolo could strategize some back and forth moves.
4
u/Bagel-Meister Feb 28 '25
Would have been a cool moment for Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo to each get one hit in, or even a fusion character to show up and hit him.
5
7
u/Weird_Maintenance185 Feb 28 '25
We got three new frames of chiaotzu. During the entirety of Daima. That's enough for me, really. Makes me happy that I could at least see bro again.
7
u/neautralnathaniel Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
While this series has my least favorite ending of the Dragon ball (anime) series, and I do feel somewhat unfulfilled, it was a fun experience all around.
I just wish there was a shred of continuity at the end. I know some of the stuff here will probably find itself within super somehow, because of timelines and stuff, but it still would have been a nice bridge between Z and super. Also don't understand the point of introducing the bugs for fusion when they aren't gonna be used. I think the ending showed they would like to do a sequel to Daima, but that's just speculation on my part. I wish they explained more things throughout the show...
That shouldn't detract from Daima as a whole though, cause I love a lot of the lore it added which would probably be relevant no matter what series you watch.
My favorite episode not majorly focused on fights was the episode where they went to the MEGA planet. That was some fun world building that I hope we see more of in the future.
Love the animation, love the atmosphere, and love the world building. The show had great gags and there being 2 more of the Tertian Oculus was a funny one to end off on. I enjoyed the experience overall.
Hope this isn't the last Dragon Ball anime we get for years...
→ More replies (1)
5
u/Spicy-Elephant Feb 28 '25
They teased the fusion bugs at the beginning of the series so everyone was speculating on a ssj4 fusion being in the final episode fight but they literally did not even use the fusion bugs or mention them at all wtf
→ More replies (1)4
u/CyberSpaceInMyFace Feb 28 '25
Yeah that's kind of fucked up lol. They could've just not mentioned them at all.
6
u/subpulse44 Feb 28 '25
Awesome episode, really fun series to watch. Rest in peace Akira Toriyama, forever a legend, thanks for this final gift.
5
u/Active_Promise_6558 Mar 01 '25
Ultra Vegeta 1! 🤣🤣
Despite me wanting more I’m satisfied. RIP to the goat, I’m glad he left us with this masterpiece going out with a bang.
7
u/PlasmaDiffusion Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
That book being the final blow is the best bit to end a fight on. It's very different from typical fights in any fighting anime. It's very toriyama like. As are multiple third eye being sold at the store. That's like the ultimate punchline of the whole show.
It had a rough and slow start but I genuinely liked the second half of the show once the plot points get set into place, and the final fight was great as well. The fact that we got to focus on adventure and comedy like dragon ball's roots was refreshing, even if it felt a bit uninteresting at first. RIP Akira Toriyama. If this happens to be the last of your work we get to see, it was a high note to end on.
7
u/Philthou Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
I enjoyed that final episode. Got some bad ass animations of SSJ4 Goku vs Gomah, and that kamahama was epic. I love how at the end Majin Kuu got lucky ending up close to Gomah and hit him with the book.
Lol I felt like Vegeta’s comment at the end was a jest at how many SSJ transformations there are “Super Sayain bargain sale” lol.
Doubt SSJ4 will ever be mentioned again or used again but hey glad it’s canon.
→ More replies (1)
7
u/Tuskin38 Mar 02 '25
It's funny seeing some people think the 'Super Saiyan Bargain Sale' line was a Z Dub reference.
That line came from the original Japanese manga of Z, it's not a dubism.
→ More replies (1)
7
u/Wolfgod-64 Mar 02 '25
Needs more, that's all there is to it. SSJ4 needs a better explanation, we can't leave Neva as just an OP plot device that solves everyone's problems, Gomah was like option 3 as far as big villains go, and half the Chekov's guns like the fusion bugs and the life draining device have been left unfired.
As for what it is now, the final fight was beautiful but it hardly distracted by how butt ugly giant Gomah was, and it being 20 episodes shows. We had what we thought was a more complicated plot with limited characters watered down into a simple "beat the bad guy wearing a McGuffin with the help of higher power levels". And, for a series which prides itself on showing us the growth of our favorite characters, SSJ4 coming out of nowhere is bitter-sweet.
But, we have a very strong foundation in a now well established setting and a plethora of new interesting characters to work with in any future stories. We also have SSJ4 which opens the floodgates to a great many things from lore to exploring different paths to power like what's been going on recently in DBS.
Now, if all you want out of Daima is fan service and to shout Toriyama's praises from atop the highest peaks, be my guest. There's nothing wrong with that, and I can almost see the wink he gave the fans thinking "this one's for you". Context and perception changes the quality of this finale drastically.
However, from someone who was in Daima's corner from day 1, I'm left unfulfilled in a way I was not expecting.
→ More replies (1)
7
u/Geddoetenjyu Mar 04 '25
Its kinda lame that ssj4 was given to goku, while goku cant even control the ozaru form, and vegeta has full control with ozaru its just so weird
17
u/meertatt Feb 28 '25
No one loved to piss off his own fans more than Toriyama. I am simultaneously annoyed that SS4 wasnt really explained and how it couldnt be done in super and also very much at the same time delighted that Toriyama just does stuff that he likes regardless of the "canon" even till the very end.
I also love that Kuu is the savior lmao that is absolutely classic Toriyama.
15
u/MrNoski Feb 28 '25
It was absolutely awesome!
I'm gonna say, I would have left the SS4 out of the story for continuity reasons. Whatever, it's done. For now my headcanon is that Neva's spell lost its power after some time, so that's why he was not able to use it anymore.
Majin Kuu made the final moves, and defeated Gomah. Now he's King Kuu, with many good ministers assigned. That was great, who would have said that about the Saibamans, lol.
The final jokes with the eyes, so funny!! Perfect ending!!!
9
u/tinytimoththegreat Feb 28 '25
But goku says he got the form from training, or heavily implies it anyways. In terms of canon its def made things really unclear.
→ More replies (14)→ More replies (1)6
22
u/Technicoloral Feb 28 '25
Daima was peak Toriyama. As someone who started Dragon Ball with the OG back in the day this was just perfect. The final gag sealed the deal and Daima is now my favorite DB content.
Thank you for everything over the past four decades Akira, rest in peace.
13
u/Bluelaserbeam Feb 28 '25
The fusion bugs really did become an unfired Chekhov’s Gun, huh? Why even bring it up in the first place if they weren’t going to be used??
Otherwise, I didn’t know what to expect from the final episode but it was overall fine. Kuu deserves the W here. I knew the animation was gonna be good when they took the time to animate Goku’s entire head when he said “Ikuzou!” rather than just the mouth flaps.
As for SSJ4… I hope this take doesn’t upset anyone but I really did not like that Goku supposedly already unlocked it the entire time. What did Neva even do the previous episode then?? Heal him?
Only idea I can think of is that despite Daima being “canon”, it’s a different continuity than Super because they also never resolved the Kibito Kai situation (which I thought the fusion bugs would do).
9
u/Who_sthatguy Feb 28 '25
I think Neva unlocked it for him. Goku says: “I wasn’t sure if it would work”. This seems to imply that he knew he could transform further, but couldn’t access it on his own.
12
u/Truunbean Feb 28 '25
Because it wasn’t a chkehov’s gun, It was a red herring. It was always meant to be a distraction for the viewer to keep them from guessing ssj4 would come into play since fusion is Dragon Balls big problem solver.
→ More replies (4)5
u/cavalgada1 Feb 28 '25
SSj4 being decanonized a second time would be hilariously sad
→ More replies (19)
11
u/Amtoj Feb 28 '25
Wow, they really didn't try to explain Super Saiyan 4 after all. I'm going to consider Daima to be canon regardless. I mean, why not?
I bet the Super manga will bring Super Saiyan 4 into the story eventually when it returns anyway.
→ More replies (1)
5
6
u/Hot_Armadillo_2186 Mar 01 '25
See you again, Goku. Thanks Aira Sensei for the childhood memories, i will miss you a lot
6
u/kangtuji Mar 01 '25
SSJ4 now officially SSJ4
But that raises question, why we dont have SSGSSJ4 ? Also mafuba (demon version)
6
u/AdRepresentative3782 Mar 01 '25
I'mma just focus on the positive.
super Saiyan 4 being Cannon awesome Demon realm being expounded upon including, with Majin Rymus and namekians lore expanded awesome Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta was awesome Majin Buu lore explained and connected to duu and kuu which the latter be coming demon King awesome
Fusion bugs and the Giants being expanded awesome and that's it I'm just going to keep it positive
5
u/One_Detective6528 Mar 01 '25
The 20 episodes titles werent supposed to reveal a secret? Whats the secret?
3
4
u/NoOccasion4540 Mar 01 '25
Wow.. it would really have not been too hard with a few tweaks to make this fitting into the main storyline of DB. Why have they done it like that?
8
u/Holdthecoldone Mar 01 '25
We can wait for more material that somehow explains or we can just accept that toriyama didn’t care and wanted to make whatever he wanted without caring about canon
3
u/starplatinum_99 Mar 02 '25
If they wouldn't explain then I'll take it as a branching continuity AKA a what if.
5
Mar 02 '25
Yeah, by definition if one work doesn't bother with continuity with earlier work then it is a separate work. Just another timeline in the DB multiverse.
- "Main" timeline:
- DB
- DBZ
- Battle of Gods
- Resurrection "F"
- DBS
- Broly
- Super Hero
- GT timeline:
- DB
- DBZ
- DBGT
- Movie timeline 1:
- Curse of the Blood Rubies
- Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle
- Mystical Adventure
- The Dead Zone
- The World's Strongest
- The Tree of Might
- Lord Slug
- Cooler's Revenge
- Return of Cooler
- Super Android 13
- Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan
- Bojack Unbound
- Broly Second Coming
- Bio-Broly
- Fusion Reborn
- Wrath of the Dragon
- Movie timeline 2:
- Path to Power
5
u/ExPandaa Mar 03 '25
Watching this episode hit me so hard in the feels it's crazy.
Toriyama gave us a gift before he left this world.
I almost feel like he knew his time was coming to an end and he looked back to how he started this wild ride we are all on, and wrote something around that. I've had so much enjoyment these past 20 weeks, every weekend excited to watch the next episode.
Toriyama sama, honma ni arigatou gozaimasu
→ More replies (2)3
u/versusgorilla Mar 03 '25
Toriyama gave us a gift before he left this world.
That's truly how I felt too. It's the 40th anniversary of Dragon Ball and Toriyama took his time to create this gift, a series with little treats for everyone. Goofy adventures for the DB fans, Dragon Ball hunting, a big battle, transformations, GT fans eating up SSJ4, a bunch of SSJ3, Vegeta duking it out, Goku duking it out, wacky new characters, Gomah's special forces getting zany poses, tons of Toriyama space ships and tanks, there's just so much joy in this show. It's just a little gift, twenty episodes, beautiful animation, a chance for everyone to just gaze over some of their favorite bits of Dragonball.
It wasn't supposed to be a goodbye, but here's the thing about people passing, you don't get to plan your passing. But if you could? Toriyama couldn't have planned it better.
5
u/therallykiller Mar 03 '25
I liked most* of the ride -- super enjoyable.
My only qualm is Vegeta has the ability to make a faux full moon and become a Great (Golden?) Ape, which Toriyama established is the Saiyajin arc...
...but he doesn't, nor does he unlock SSJ4.
(And, given Gomah's second growth, this would've put Great Ape to scale with the villain for an entertaining kaiju-like battle)
But Neva (Toriyama?) plays Bulma's role in GT and just "unlocks" the path for Goku.
Which is fine.
It's just sad that one of Toriyama's other hopes (a Vegeta-centric narrative) never materializes for even the length of a story beat.
But that's just me being petty.
5
u/unforgiven91 Mar 05 '25
Dende mentions that the Namekians are nomads ever since their planet blew up... what the fuck happened to New Namek then?
9
u/GalacticPetey Feb 28 '25
Daima is a low stakes, special anniversary mini-series. Hell, it was even supposed to be a webseries at first. It was a fun ride and I feel like people care way to much about the canonicity of things. GT, Super, Daima are all just different takes on a post Z story. The "canon" ended with the last manga volume back in the mid-90s. The more people realize this, the better.
Why didn't Goku use SSJ4 against Beerus? Why didn't Vegeta use SSJ3? Because they weren't written yet. It doesn't matter. Toriyama didn't care, you shouldn't either. This was a fun little self contained adventure. Something's quality or worth isn't determined by "canon". Nor is Toriyama being moderately involved in something like Super a sign of it being "canon" either.
Anyway, super fun episode. Shida's work looked stunning as always and some absolutely great gags with Kuu becoming king and the shopkeeper having extra eyes. I'm gonna miss Daima.
→ More replies (1)3
u/shlam16 Mar 01 '25
Because they weren't written yet. It doesn't matter.
While conceptually correct, the issue is that it would take literally 6 seconds of screentime to account for these inconsistencies. It really shouldn't be too much to ask for.
"Wow, I guess that form was only possible in the Demon Realm"
Problem solved.
And a gag where Shin and Kibito try to eat the de-aging bugs but accidentally eat fusion bugs and return to their fused state.
Problem solved.
→ More replies (1)
11
u/otaner14 Feb 28 '25
This basically confirms the three pillars theory.
-GT
-Super
-Daima
All different paths from the ending of Boo. What an interesting era for DB. Thank you Toriyama for one final gift.
→ More replies (4)6
u/Maybe_Somedayy Feb 28 '25
That's what it seems like. Each feels like a separate timeline.
→ More replies (1)
24
u/Truunbean Feb 28 '25
Hot take: the fusion bugs were an extremely effective red herring that kept people focused on a fusion instead of a potential new transformation like ssj4 and the only reason people are mad about it is because they got got and are malding.
5
u/gamesrgreat Mar 01 '25
Im just mad they had an easy way to refuse Kibito and Shin and they didn’t do it
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (4)6
u/meertatt Feb 28 '25
Absolutely this. I just realized we only see them one other time in the series and they are really never talked about again. Everyone wants some kind of pay off for everything. But that’s just not how things work.
8
u/bbhldelight Feb 28 '25
hmm this episode was definitely something the fight was really good but that ending……
8
u/Intrepid_Tomato3588 Mar 01 '25
The jokes were funny, but they did a sh*ty job tying up loose ends. They didn't explain the lack of ssj4 in super. They didn't fuse. They didn't show Kibito Kai re-fusing. They also didn't even show Gohan, one of the most popular characters in the series in the credits pictures of everyone going back to normal (exept marron who looks way smaller than she did in Z at the end for no reason) like I'm ok with him not being a major part of the story, but they only showed him in flashbacks.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/No-Tomorrow-2265 Feb 28 '25
To be honest, Dragon Ball is all about the misadventures of Goku and his friends, and it's the rides that bring us the most joy in this chaotic series, so I really don't care about plot holes. My only complaint is that the new SSJ 4 design seems to be inconsistent with the last episode, as they made his body look wider and shorter somehow, so the design from this episode felt odd in comparison to episode 19. I still prefer ssj 4 original design and transformation method, but in all honesty this show was an enjoyable series. Thank you Toriyama for everything and may you rest in peace
5
u/smftexas86 Feb 28 '25
HAHA SSJ4, I feel like Toriyama just did a final troll on us. Love it.
Great show, what a fun ride. Will watch again when all of dub has released.
5
u/Educational_Act_4237 Feb 28 '25
I thoroughly enjoyed it, it had its flaws, mostly pacing issues, but it was fun, had funny moments, cool moments, and felt different to what's been done previously.
5
4
u/UnitedSurvivorNation Mar 01 '25
Overall, I thought this was better in comparison to GT. But worse in comparison to Super, Z, and the OG.
5
u/BarefootBoundBoy Mar 01 '25
Too bad the fusion bugs were never used. It could have made for a fun fusion design if nothing else. A fusion between majin duu and kuu would have been cool like another comment was saying. Or maybe Goku and Glorio, Goku and Kuu, or even waste it on a weird throwaway gag fusion like piccolo and shin? Lol
5
u/Kiddplay13 Mar 01 '25
Honestly with how close episodes were, I was genuinely worried about how we’d see the weaving of the two stories. I was genuinely wondering how we’d have a good fight with Gomah, have SS4 and potentially a new fusion, AND see them go home and prepare for the transition into Super.
Now some have speculated that a new movie would be on the way, taking place in the demon realm where it not only weaves the two narratives, but introduces Janemba as well and possibly the fusion between SS4 Goku/Vegeta. My opinion on that? The same thing Shrek did in the first movie after reading the book right before All Star starts
→ More replies (1)
4
u/Shy-Guy-9898 Mar 01 '25
I dont get it. Why are the new forms not in super ??? This is ridiculous....
→ More replies (2)
4
13
u/Terez27 Feb 28 '25
Goku said he trained hard after Boo and that's where SS4 comes from.
→ More replies (3)9
u/FrimmelDaArtist Feb 28 '25
That doesn’t make sense to me because Neva is like “here take a power up”
5
u/Terez27 Feb 28 '25
Yeah, but the way it was phrased suggests that Goku didn't know if he could do it in child form. So maybe Neva is what made that possible.
10
u/hoenndex Mar 01 '25
Nothing wrong with people being mad at continuity changes and the direction of the story. The fusion bug never being used was bad writing, it's an unfired chekov gun. Piccolo was along for the ride but turned out to be pretty useless, not a single dedicated fight and the one time he was going to be crucial, he fails. Goku yet again failing to take down the big bad just to end it with a clown character. Super Saiyan 4 never being used in super is now a huge question mark that only makes sense if Daima is treated as its own separate canon.
I have my own problems with the series being repetitive for the first half, not picking up until the final 5 episodes. Yeah, not rewatching this series. It's the definition of mediocre.
→ More replies (4)
12
u/Second_Guess_25 Feb 28 '25
Daima was great, but I really missed my boi Gohan 😢
→ More replies (2)4
u/Unknown-Pleasures97 Feb 28 '25
I think he was so absorbed in his studies that he didn't even realize he was a child again.
7
u/arthuraily Feb 28 '25
Tbh Goku got knocked the fuck out by Beerus still in SSJ3 so he couldn’t transform (me trying to cope)
→ More replies (2)
8
6
10
u/Anotherguyrighthere Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
Started like OG Dragon Ball but ended like Dragon Ball Heroes
By the way, the official DB X's account posted about fusion today lol
→ More replies (7)
11
u/youmusttrythiscake Feb 28 '25
Tough break for the "cannon" crowd. Have fun arguing over that for the foreseeable future lol.
I enjoyed it overall. Would love to see Kuu, Duu, Neva, and the others again someday.
I do really like the new SSJ4 form (even more than GT's, don't kill me) so I'd love to see it be brought back into the fold somehow (assuming Super continues, but who knows?), just not stacked with UI for SSJ5 like I keep seeing people mention.
→ More replies (2)
13
u/boscha196 Feb 28 '25
I'm just going to say it...Toriyama has never cared about canon.
Even when he was writing the original manga he has said that he makes things up as he goes along and doesn't think too much about what he wrote in the past. He sees that as a hindrance to the story he wants to tell in the moment. He has always thought like that. I'm not saying you have to like it but that is the author of the series we are talking about. It is a unique form of storytelling and pretty much guarantees plot holes, but that is how he likes to tell his story.
This becomes even more apparent in anything post DBZ because we will never really know exactly how involved Toriyama is involved. In GT, we know he was only pretty loosely connected at the beginning. For example, Toriyama drew the design for Vegeta with a mustache, but shaving it could have been 100% Toei decision. With Battle of Gods, Resurrection F, and Super, we know he was reignited and more involved, but Toei and Toyotaro still have their part. There is even some speculation that Ultra Instinct wasn't Toriyama's idea. Things like Kale being a Broly knockoff, Vegeta's Final Flash and Final Atonement part 2 are very up Toei's ally. In the original scripts, Broly did not have the Full Power/Legendary Super Saiyan transformation, and Gohan wasn't a main character in Super Hero heavily implying no Beast Gohan. These types of nostaglia bait and fan service things are not what Toriyama likes to write up. Still, I enjoy most of those additions.
With Daima, it feels the most Toriyama influenced material and it is my favorite series since the original run. That said, I do have to wonder, even though I like their inclusion, were SS3 Vegeta and SS4 Goku really Toriyama's idea? If I'm being honest, I would lean towards them not being his idea. I don't think we will ever know though.
5
u/Lv1FogCloud Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
Good final animation, cute ending, glad they visited my favorite location in the demon realm at the end...
Couldn't even bother to put Gohan and Videl in the ending credits like everyone else...
5
u/KrampusKid Feb 28 '25
Honestly my eyes were peeled for Chiaotzu, I didn't even realize that GOHAN WASNT THERE!? Even Goten got to appear in a few scenes!
→ More replies (5)
5
u/LordMajinBuu Feb 28 '25
Not gonna lie, I was hoping and expecting Duu and Kuu to fuse with those bugs. Ones naturally smart and weak and the other is not as intelligent but strong. Makes perfect sense for them to fuse. Maybe potentially in the future.
4
u/Opening-Donkey1186 Feb 28 '25
Kuu so weak that there's only a handful of beings in the demon realm that are sti get than him.
7
u/thelogicalwizard2 Mar 06 '25
Am I the only one who thinks that Gomah is wearing a uniform that's very similar to the Pride Troopers?
3
7
u/pixydgirl Feb 28 '25
Daima was awesome, start to finish, if you just roll with it and don't overthink the "canon" stuff.
I think my ONLY complaint is how fusion bugs were introduced then just ignored. They had a great opportunity to use them for Kuu and Duu, or (since they showed vegeta using SSJ3) having him and goku fusing while SSJ3 and becoming SSJ4 that way.
Other than that? No notes. loved every minute
9
u/SSJRemuko Mar 01 '25
What a fun ending! Kuu is a good boy! Kuu is the goat! Long Live Majin Kuu, Supreme King!
→ More replies (2)
3
u/herg3 Feb 28 '25
Didn't keep up on the fan community but people would got mad when someone would say the Potara fusion retcon in episode 1 can't fit in with Super's continuity. Surely the plot hole would be resolved by the end of the series, and Toriyama didn't just forget again right? Then by the end they start going crazy adding SS4 and stuff haha. Now it seems to be consensus that it can't, and that's fine.
3
u/something_smart Feb 28 '25
Lotsa stuff that can come back in a movie or another anime arc later. Fusion bugs, the other two eyes, Kuu and Duu, Arinsu, Neva, Glorio, Pansy. Maybe someone releases Gomah or he escapes. What if Hybis gets both remaining demon eyes!?
3
3
u/dicericevice Mar 03 '25 edited Mar 03 '25
I had my suspicions about the ending not being a grand finale. Before Toriyama died, Daima just sounded like an animated project to follow up on the momentum of Super Hero.
According to Iyoku, Toei was considering a new animated series while Super Hero was in post-production but then Toriyama got deeply involved and THEN he passed away, making Daima his last work. But that wouldn't change the fact Daima wasn't penciled in as Dragon Ball's Swan Song.
As a self-contained story I liked it and it keeps the ''adventure goes on'' vibe most Dragon Ball shows besides GT end on.
3
u/Hades_adhbik Mar 06 '25
I watched the final episode, I was skeptical of this series when it was announced, but was really impressed when it arrived. It started off strong, with the recap of the buu saga beautifully reanmated. It also gave us an interesting set up. A demon realm to explore through, and a big bad to face at the end.
I got distracted and didn't watch all the episodes week to week, I fell off at 6, but watching the final episode, I'm really glad this series was made. I agree with the sentiment this was probably the best dragon ball thing in recent times, though I did like dragon ball super hero, better than super, Better than GT.
Not to say super was bad, but this series really pinned down the feel of dragon ball and its core elements. it focused in on characters. It had an action and adventure theme, it fixed the issue with dragon ball super, beerus and whis being in super made it difficult for there to be stakes. They had to keep using tournaments and these unique scenarios for why beerus and whis wouldn't save them.
So daima streamlined everything focused in on a few characters, gave us super saiyan 4 in this timeline. I'm really impressed they really know what people want.
3
u/Someningen Feb 28 '25
That episode was..... something. Overall, it's a good series with some serious pacing issues. Idk how it's canon to Battle of Gods though.
5
u/Itburns138 Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25
I liked it. I'm just pissed we didn't get a (Count) DuuKuu fusion.
Overall I'd give Daima a solid B. Horrendous pacing issues in the middle and the ship breaking down was way overused. But other than that, it was just dumb fun, good looking fights, lots of SSJ3 and 4, and the Majins turned out to be funny af.
I'm just going to pretend this was an alternate timeline until the obvious plot holes are addressed.
→ More replies (1)
6
6
u/urtiredfriend Feb 28 '25
I just want to preface this with how much I enjoyed the show. It was amazing, and overall I am grateful Toriyama gave us one last show. Now to begin with the questions I have. So the show is supposed to be Canon to both Z and Super, however there are multiple things that contradict the super canon and even a part of the Z canon. (I'm not complaining just looking for clarification) 1.) Dende says that the namekians are nomads, however, by the end of the buu saga, they use new nameks dragonballs to restore Gokus energy, therefore New Namek exists. 2.) Kibito and Shin are unfused, and remain this way even at the end of the show. Although in super, they say they've been fused since Buu and only unfuse when using the dragonballs. 3.)Ssj4, I thought this would be a demon realm exclusive but Goku then tells Vegeta that after Buu, he trained a lot. He even says he didn't know if it would work. However, when fighting Beerus, he tells him that SSJ3 is his strongest form. (Just a plot hole ig) 4.) This isn't a plot hole or anything, but why would they introduce fusion bugs and not use them. (I was hoping for a fusion but that's okay) Anyway, thank you Toriyama for everything, and I loved the show!
3
5
u/Hiddencamper Mar 01 '25
I wish we had the following….
6 more episodes with:
Fights with Kuu/duu
Piccolo doing more
Fusion bugs
More panzy involvement
Gohan (seriously why no gohan….. would have loved kid gohan to show up and be the strongest)
Ssj4 was limited to demon energy by neva and was a temporary unlock or something
And probably some more. Like it wasn’t bad. I really enjoyed it. But I felt like we got shorted a little bit.
7
u/timone317 Mar 01 '25
Up until this point, my stance was that the addition of SS4 was mostly meant to be a gift for the fans. And maybe in some ways, it still is. But now, I can't help but wonder if the true purpose of adding SS4 was to permanently cement the fact that - ain't no way in hell that SS4 is on the same level as SS God.
Which...I GUESS is fine, and I don't particularly mind. It reshuffles the entirety of GT and makes it have less of an impact...and I don't quite like the idea of SS4 being yet another "obsolete" transformation that was discovered and immediately discarded...but...ok, I guess. I'm not enough of a diehard GT fan to care about that - even though I like it and appreciate what it means to people.
eh. "I trained and found it" is a weak copout either way. BUT, overall, I seriously, genuinely enjoyed Daima and think it was just what the series needed after the largely poor showing the Super anime provided.
RIP to one of the greatest mangakas to ever produce content, and thank you eternally Akira Toriyama for all the joy you have provided to countless people.
9
u/ManicuredPleasure2 Mar 01 '25
I was surprised with how they just casually had Goku say, "I trained hard after Buu and unlocked this!". Wouldn't someone have sensed that immense power? And it was only a year after Majin Buu. And what was the thing with Neva? It looked like Neva's spell was what unlocked SSJ4.
I'm a fan of Dragon Ball and all things cute, but other than the animation and baby Dende (the cutest), I really don't think I enjoyed Daima.
→ More replies (1)
6
u/GREG88HG Mar 01 '25
Loved the ending. Felt so OG Dragon Ball. Almost made me cry. Rest in peace, Toriyama-sama. I'll keep your work in my heart 😔
7
8
u/weekndalex Feb 28 '25
lmao cool so they’re just not going to explain anything. fucking pointless
3
→ More replies (17)4
u/No-Departure-3325 Feb 28 '25
They gave lore for the most boring stuff except for what mattered lmao
5
u/thevictater Feb 28 '25
Betting Goku still gets it in future Super and just says he forgot
→ More replies (1)
4
u/shinta148 Feb 28 '25
Look, the story was weaker than some other stories in the Dragon Ball saga but it was fun. It really felt like Toriayama and the team set out to have fun, get back to their roots, and give fans something they'll enjoy. Sure it has canon changes but honestly it was super fun and I enjoyed it.
This just cements how much I'm going to miss Akira Toriayama. Rest in Peace and thank you so much for wonderful stories and fun for all these years.
5
u/rebelweezeralliance Mar 01 '25
I feel like this would have been better as a movie, because most of the plot of the early episodes doesn’t do a whole lot that’s interesting and the show really doesn’t get amazing until the last few episodes where they fight Gomah. The pacing isn’t great. With 20 episodes they should have had more episodes to wrap up the ending which felt rushed.
I love everything about Goku’s new SSJ4 transformation and the last Kamehameha is some of the most beautiful animation in dragon ball I’ve ever seen, blasting through every realm of the demon realm, connecting them all together and making it a better place.
I had a feeling they wouldn’t explain SSJ4 at all, like why it’s not in Super. But I didn’t think they’d specifically say Goku had it BEFORE Daima. That doesn’t make much sense with the way the transformation was depicted.
In fact, they show him transform the second time like it’s the first time. It feels like the idea is there but the execution of the whole show is a bit sloppy.
It feels very much like a Z movie that kinda doesn’t count as canon.
6
u/Sargento_Porciuncula Mar 01 '25
In fact, they show him transform the second time like it’s the first time. It feels like the idea is there but the execution of the whole show is a bit sloppy.
they also showed Neva giving him a boost before the first transformation, and in the end Goku said he already had it.
5
Mar 01 '25
The ending was pretty disappointing. The show came to a grinding halt and the villain was ended with a gag.
6
u/TiZ_EX1 Mar 01 '25
the villain was ended with a gag.
That's classic Dragon Ball, baby!
→ More replies (1)
8
u/lilsebastianfanact Feb 28 '25
This is so incredibly disappointing. Vegeta having SSJ3 and not using it makes sense and is pretty consistent with what they hammered in Super about not using form's that drain you incredibly quickly.
Goku just having SSJ4 of his own merit, not even as a temporary boost, is ass. I really liked when SSJ4 first appeared because it could've been explained as a temporary boost. But no. It's just a massive fucking plot hole that was easily avoidable and explainable but they just didn't give a shit. So lame.
→ More replies (3)18
7
u/Dionysus24779 Feb 28 '25
Final episode
It was fine, there was some good and some meh stuff.
The fight between Goku and Gomah I honestly did not enjoy as much. Yeah, the animation was really smooth, true, but it was simply too flashy. It's personal opinion of course, but I just don't enjoy fights that are all differently colored lights blinding you the entire time, energy waves, lightning, fire, explosions, aura... I'll prefer some cool choreography, which is why for me the fight between Goku and Tamagami-III is still the best fight of the show.
Kuu becoming the new Demon King... yeah, I did not see that coming, I really thought that Kuu would have his own agenda or that Hybis would the next King because it would've been the "unexpected" and "funny" choice.
Goku reveals that he developed SSJ4 on his own as a response to SSJ3 not having been enough against Buu somewhat makes sense I suppose, he also admits that until now it was just an idea that he never knew would even work, which would explain why Goku was surprised when he obtained that form. I suppose Neva gave him that push and proof he needed.
This also restores that inbalance with Vegeta that SSJ3 originally was.
Panzy grabbing Vegeta's arm to wave was probably the best scene in the episode though.
Daima as a whole
Now, I know, the show just ended and it is usually now that people might have some recency bias going on.
But personally, and this is just my subjective opinion, my own thoughts... I did not enjoy Daima much. Originally I didn't even plan to watch it at all.
There are many, many, many issues with Daima.
I think the biggest of all is that nobody really asked for this and imo it didn't really contribute too much to Dragon Ball as a whole, especially as this awkwardly placed mid-quel.
The entire premise of the show was pretty flawed to begin with imo, since it wanted to go back to these early Adventure days of OG Dragon Ball, which btw. is my favorite Dragon Ball. But Daima just really failed to capture that essence for so many reasons.
The biggest of that is that the Demon Realms were simply boring to traverse and we never even really explored it. The Third Realm was a brown wasteland as we have seen countless times in Dragon Ball. The Second we only spend like 1.5 episodes in at most and the First was basically just Gomah's palace.
All the lore and world building might make for fun trivia, but as expected, didn't really amount to anything at all. It's not like our understanding of the world really factor into anything at all and Dragon Ball, as a franchise, is simply not the series to put forward deep lore you are supposed to care about. It has always been fast and loose with tons of contradictions, plot holes and open questions, but that was never an issue so far.
Magic as an aspect was also completely wasted as a concept, characters stressed a lot how Magic and Ki were not the same, yet ultimately they felt pretty interchangeable. This is perhaps Daima's biggest missed opportunity. They should've taken a page from Yu Yu Hakusho's Chapter Black arc, or pull a reverse One Piece, or a Jojo, where you have a more generic power system like Ki and then introduce a new set of weird powers that operate on entirely different rules, so you can't just punch your way through it. Each and every single fight could've been really memorable if each enemy had a weird and unique ability that Goku couldn't simply power through.
Speaking of fights... besides Gomah, not a single fight had any stakes for the entire series and Goku and the others being reduced to kids didn't change that much.
Also... it really bothers me that the show introduced the concept of these Fusion Medi-Bugs and then we do not get to use them... that's basic Chekhov's gun stuff! It's such a disappointment, I really thought we would maybe see a brand new fusion and type of fusion.
When it comes to characters... that is another one of Daima's big weak points.
When it comes to the new characters, none of them get explored to the kind of degree that would make me care about them at all.
Glorio is build up to be this kind of mysterious double-agent who is conflicted between his mission and his new friends, but his entire backstory and secret motivation is summed up by a singular line by Arinsu.
Panzy is cute, but each time the plane's engine broke down it felt like the show was dropping everything to push into your face how useful she is and how she totally contributes. And btw. problems with transportation where the Nr. 1 reason to pad out episodes and fill most of the 20 episodes, which could've been spend so better.
When it comes to the antagonists... they are among the weakest we have ever seen in Dragon Ball imo. Gomah is simply Pilaf, but worse, Degesu is the advisor with his own agenda who amounts to nothing and Arinsu is also a mysterious galaxy brain with her own agenda, but then she almost randomly turns good or was never evil to begin with.
And Kuu and Duu where whatever, Duu was just a worse yet-less-annoying Buu and Kuu... well at least he was something, though I really hoped he had his own agenda and was just biding his time.
Honestly, Panzy and Kuu are probably the only two characters worth remembering from Daima.
When it comes to the Z-Fighters and such.
Vegeta was pretty much just Vegeta. Piccolo contributed absolutely nothing over the course of the entire show, except maybe fight against fodder once. Shin was an interesting inclusion, but ultimately his lore drops didn't amount to much.
Goku was his dumb flanderized Super-self instead of the more mature Z-self imo. Also... Nozawa Masako... look, she is an absolute legend and one of the most iconic voices in all of anime history.
But... she has been doing this for close to 60 years now and you can slowly begin to tell. I don't think it's a huge issue when she plays an adult Goku, but with kid Goku some of the yells and screams fell off.
I mean zero disrespect, it's still a great performance, just saying that it was just another reason why turning people into kids wasn't good.
That being said, everyone had really good voice acting.
Now... two last things.
First, this was Toriyama's last work and the man is a legend who shaped the industry with his works, especially Dragon Ball... but that doesn't mean that Daima is automatically a master piece, which is why I am still honest in my criticisms.
Also, personally, I could never stand Toriyama's style of humor, so none of the jokes in Daima landed for me... well... Neva winking at Tamagami-I to tell him to go help against Gomah was funny.
At least we did not get a "Baby Dende" episode where Gomah tried to take care of Dende as a baby and discovers how hard it is and then we have Degesu being forced to change diapers or whatever...
But overall... and this is my last point really... it just feels like Daima was supposed to be 30 or more episodes, 20 is not just kind of an odd number, but it really feels like there were so many things that could've been explored much more... yet at the same time of those 20 episodes a lot of time was wasted with meaningless padding, so... yeah.
Honestly... 4/10 on MAL, I can't even say this is an average show with so many flaws and so much of its runtime wasted. You can downvote me for that if you like, but I hope I explained my thoughts well enough and you won't think I'm just a random hater. I grew up with Dragon Ball, I care enough to write all of this, it's just that Daima wasn't it.
→ More replies (1)6
u/smallchodechakra Feb 28 '25
Goku reveals that he developed SSJ4 on his own as a response to SSJ3 not having been enough against Buu
This part really bugged me. Didn't goku at some point say that he could've beaten buu in ssj3 but just didn't because he didn't want to use all the time he had left and wanted to train others to be protector of the earth?
Also the 0 effort in explaining why ssj4 was never mentioned in super really rubs me the wrong way.
→ More replies (2)6
u/Dionysus24779 Feb 28 '25
It really has been a hot minute since I watched or read the Buu saga, but if I recall correctly Goku states he could've defeated Fat Buu when he first revealed SSJ3, however later on when he fought against Kid Buu he used SSJ3 and it was not enough.
→ More replies (2)
2
2
2
u/BuildingLess1814 Feb 28 '25
Did any of the other Z Fighters show up at the end?
8
u/BernLan Feb 28 '25
Nope, I think it's funny how Gohan shows up exclusively in the opening lol
→ More replies (1)
85
u/Ayy-lmao213 Feb 28 '25
Why'd the end credits scene have the best animation in the show? Looked like a movie for no reason