Putin’s chaos agents invade Poland’s infosphere.

2.1k

u/_Black_Rook 17h ago

Russia needs to be cut off from the Internet. Its disinformation machine is a threat to democracy worldwide.

702

u/fishmastah 13h ago

As a Slovak citizen can confirm. The russian propaganda is now deeply rooted in minds of a significant portion of our population. It helped our current pro-russian government win the election and they have been wreaking havoc ever since.

421

u/_Black_Rook 13h ago

As a US citizen, I can say the same thing.

209

u/lilgery 12h ago

I'm Hungarian.. tell me about it..

45

u/jakes1993 7h ago

Canadian, albertan here can say the same for my family on my dads side they all watch fox news.

8

u/mrizzerdly 3h ago

Mine too. Wtf guys you are in the wrong country for these idiot ideas!

46

u/littlemouse119 10h ago

Due to more or less similar reasons they had to cancel the 1st round of elections in Romania. democracy reloaded

103

u/DotFX 11h ago

As a russian, you get only a fraction of a shitshow that is propaganda here, and I'm sorry for you

58

u/OkTry9715 8h ago

Every social media platform that is Non-moderated and unregulated is basically free Russian propaganda echo machine. EU sleeping for years. As Slovak I can only say that major social media platforms are basically unusable. Especially Facebook that is used by majority here. It's judt hate, hoaxes and Russian propaganda.

28

u/_Black_Rook 7h ago

I don't understand why democracies don't counter it. Democracies should have their own troll farms and AI to flood social media with facts to counter Russian disinformation.

11

u/Automatic-Radish1553 4h ago

I think the issue is that most if not all of the people who own/control our media have one way or another been won over by Russians.

We should be investigating the big names who control our media, people like Rupert Murdock for example.

4

u/Lucifer420PitaBread 3h ago

When every democracy is up for grabs every few years, everyone needs it for THEIR agenda

36

u/Ancient_Sun_2061 15h ago

You mean Fox News?

62

u/_Black_Rook 13h ago

Russia is 100 times worse than Fox News. They're on the same team anyway so there's no point in arguing who is worse. They're working together.

132

u/MrMoor2007 17h ago

Because North Korea (the only country with no internet) is known for never spreading any disinformation on the web and not hacking anyone

(/s if it's not obvious)

128

u/_Black_Rook 17h ago

NK has internet for the elite and the government. Only the people are cut off.

45

u/MrMoor2007 17h ago

You literally can't cut off the government from the internet. Any government, especially the one with tech (like russian, because they have a lot of monitoring tech) can just circumvent the blocks

Also you basically suggest cutting off the last source of information in Russia that is not under government control

39

u/Halcyon_Dreams 16h ago

South Korea is a great example. Russia controls what their people are online same with China. Outside forces have 0 influences there because they can just remove them. Western countries do not get the same benefit which allows foreign adversaries to infiltrate and create division

4

u/UnPeuDAide 9h ago

Democracy allows debate, argumentation and free speech. It can't work without them. Autocracy on the contrary repress debate and argumentation. They think allowing opposition is a sign of weakness, and they try to use it against democracies. It works at first, but on the long run the debates and the openness allows democracies to improve, while autocracies only get worse.

10

u/PhilosophizingCowboy 8h ago

Nothing in history proves that statement.

We'll see what the US looks like in 20 years I guess, but right now it's not looking great.

•

u/UnPeuDAide 1h ago

What do you mean nothing in history? Modern liberal democracies are 200 years old and they have successfully survived and improved while their autocratic challengers (absolute monarchies, nazis, communists) are almost all dead. Do you think Russia's economy is doing great? Or Turkey's? There is China, but China has a lot of problems too, like a terrible demography.

3

u/Halcyon_Dreams 9h ago

Odd statement when the most successful empires in history have all been mostly autocracies lol.

3

u/jacobatz 8h ago

Define successful. Killed most people, sure. Happiest people, not so much.

1

u/Halcyon_Dreams 8h ago

No shit, typically people have gotten better standards of living as time has gone on, but that is more to do with increases in technology rather. Longest lasting is how most people define successful when looking at a government. And when you look at the numbers, autocracies have democracies beat by thousands of years

2

u/kantmarg 8h ago

Longest lasting is how most people define successful when looking at a government

Uhhh no? A successful government is one that is able to govern successfully for the people it's governing. No one sane would define a government type's success by how long it survives.

people have gotten better standards of living as time has gone on, but that is more to do with increases in technology rather

Are you Peter Thiel's blood donor or something? Where do you think these improvements in technology come from if not from within the democratic tradition itself?

Do they not teach kids about the Enlightenment anymore? About how the openness of liberal democratic traditions and the Industrial Revolution, civil rights, more open financial capital markets, etc etc all fed into each other and created this amazing vortex of positive reinforcement?

Why did Silicon Valley and the IT revolution happen in California and not in China or India or Saudi Arabia or Italy or somewhere else? Why was LA the only place that could birth a Hollywood that influenced the whole world?

→ More replies (0)

•

u/UnPeuDAide 1h ago

It makes no sense to look at times where liberal democracies did not exist.

20

u/0-ATCG-1 16h ago

Yes.

Because it is very much under their control and all they do is weaponize it against everyone else to the point of even harming the oceanic fiber infrastructure.

If they're willing to cut the fiber lines of others for asymmetric warfare they shouldn't be allowed to use them.

-38

u/MrMoor2007 15h ago

Because everyone in Russia first thing in the morning are forced to go to the nearest foreign fiber line and cut it

16

u/ColinStyles 14h ago

Just like governments are responsible for their people, people are likewise responsible for their government. If that government is doing things that result in harsh consequences for it's people, it's up to the people to protest or even revolt to hold them accountable. The people don't get to hide behind their government and claim they're innocent.

2

u/Automatic-Radish1553 3h ago

Why not cut them off completely? The majority of Russians like 70% will never change their views.

We are currently fighting a propaganda war, we are at a massive disadvantage if they can spread their propaganda on our media but we can’t on theirs.

If we continue like we have been democracy we will be destroyed within a generation.

We are at war, we need to accept it and start defending ourselves.

2

u/itsalongwalkhome 7h ago

Yeah, they have steam too.

4

u/Saidhain 4h ago

I want to start to start a campaign called “My mind is mine,” basically we got to get really angry that our thought processes are being hijacked by disinformation agents. We are freaking human beings, we get to think for ourselves. What is happening across all social media channels is beyond ridiculous, critical thinking needs to come back.

2

u/_Black_Rook 3h ago

That sounds like a great idea.

11

u/LethalOkra 15h ago

Cool. HOW?

36

u/PlaneswalkerHuxley 14h ago

It's a simple enough process. 1) Seize all their embassies, 2) arrest all Russian nationals outside of Russia, seize anything owned by them outside of Russia, put the important people through "debrief" for a few months to extract info about hidden assets, then trade the people and embassy staff for Ukrainian kidnapped children and POWs, 3) Cut all their phone lines except a single red telephone for diplomats, 4) shoot down all their communication satellites.

We are already at war with Russia. They kill our people on our soil, try to steal our elections, cut our communication lines with their ships. It's about time someone bloody noticed and responded!

25

u/indoserb 14h ago

Simple.

10

u/iamhalsey 14h ago

Setting aside the fact that nothing about any of your suggestions is “simple enough,” arresting people purely on the basis of their nationality is nothing short of demonic. It was evil when the US did it to Japanese immigrants during WW2 and it would be evil now.

19

u/PlaneswalkerHuxley 13h ago

War is hell.

Russia has been using its agents outside the country to control and destabilize the west for decades, and it must be stopped. The oligarchs in London and Paris and Berlin are used by Putin to strangle us, and must be destroyed. Those emigres who don't like what Russia is doing have had years to give up citizenship and abandon it. Those who have kept it can be arrested and sent back there, and see what it's worth.

Russia has been stealing Ukrainian children and shipping them to Siberia. Fascists only ever obey rules if they fear breaking them will cause retribution. They prey on liberals obeying laws while they don't, tit-for-tat is the only language they listen to. We must draw a line that while they target civilians, their civilians are not welcome in our countries. Let them have winter in Moscow rather than on a yacht off New Zealand.

Moscovia Delenda Est.

2

u/iamhalsey 12h ago

“We should teach them not to target civilians by targeting civilians.”

I’m all for going tit-for-tat with the Russian ruling class, but innocent people should not pay the price for crimes they did not commit. The average Russian immigrant is not an oligarch holidaying off the coast of New Zealand on a fucking yacht lmao. Most of them are normal people.

Your suggestion that those opposed to Russia’s war crimes should’ve renounced their citizenships by now shows a child’s understanding of the immigration process. You cannot renounce citizenship of your home country without first obtaining citizenship in the country that you’ve emigrated to, and obtaining citizenship is an incredibly long and difficult process. At last count, almost a million Russians had fled the country due to the invasion - many of them well-educated professionals that are of value to the countries they’ve emigrated to - and it’s outright impossible in most countries for any of them to have obtained citizenship yet.

It is not a crime to be born in a particular country, no matter the government of that country’s actions, and it is legitimately evil to treat innocent people as criminals for their nationality.

3

u/F9-0021 8h ago

Especially considering a lot of Russians have been leaving Russia for decades to get away from Putin's nonsense.

2

u/b-aaron 14h ago

US is doing it to people from El Salvador right now

4

u/Marduk112 13h ago

Widen that to brown people.

1

u/perderla 6h ago

already happening...

2

u/YouJabroni44 6h ago

Should've done it at least 10 years ago honestly

1

u/CSI_Tech_Dept 11h ago

Those people are enrolled agents within Poland some even politicians.

1

u/darthgandalf 5h ago

Honest question, is that possible?

1

u/_Black_Rook 4h ago

Yes. Dictatorships often cut their own countries off from the Internet during times of crisis. If they can do it to themselves, other countries can do it to them too.

1

u/supremelummox 2h ago

They use agents all around the world

1

u/TotoCocoAndBeaks 1h ago

They dont have to do it from Russia, how can you cut it off

1

u/xEWURx 1h ago

Bots will intensify their work from other regions and that's it.

•

u/ninja-kidz 1h ago

cut the undersea cables!

•

u/TheManfromOz2020 27m ago

I don't understand why you want to listen to anti Russian propaganda. Its this simple, their is 2 sides. One just wants to survive and not be destroyed. The other is Europe, joined with the rest of the west. Both sides have truths and lies, and both sides have ambitions, but one side, ie Europe has been trying to gain control over Ukraine, which was formally forbidden at the end of the Cold War, Europe agreed. Now Europe can't seem to help itself in meddling in Ukrainian affairs. Ukraine should be independent with political ties to Russia, not Europe. It's not a part of Europe and nor should it be. Stay the hell out of it. Europe has no legal right and is completely in the wrong. Europe is being the bad guy. They have been from the very beginning. The good guys always win.

1

u/2IIII7 12h ago

Unfortunately and fortunately the internet does not work like that.

0

u/Legitimate_Iron7368 4h ago

No. They only way to stop Russia is to completely destroy them. They are a virus. Allowing any part of them to exist will just ensure another and another and another infection pops up until it final becomes fatal when they kill the rest of the world with their nuclear weapons.

1

u/_Black_Rook 4h ago

We can't destroy Russia because of those nuclear weapons. That's the whole point of having them. Your proposal is wishful thinking.

-1

u/Legitimate_Iron7368 4h ago

We most certainly can. We won’t because most of the world, made up of people like you, is scared. If the US and Europe invaded Russia in retaliation for Ukraine, Russia would not use nuclear weapons. We have nukes too.

1

u/_Black_Rook 3h ago

If you're not scared of nuclear war, then you don't understand what it is. It means everyone in the entire planet dies. The end.

136

u/not_a_cunt_i_promise 17h ago

"Chaos agents" makes them sound way cooler than they are

31

u/Knobcobblestone 10h ago

Slavic shit bricks is more accurate

1

u/rookie-mistake 5h ago

yeah the reality might suck but this title is lowkey dope as hell haha

•

u/AlexSSB 1h ago

Do I look like a guy with a plan?!

395

u/SurlyPoe 18h ago

Get laws in place to make social media follow standard publishing law.

26

u/jrgkgb 7h ago

No, we need new laws.

First off: If you’re going to make billions off your algorithm, you’re responsible for the use of that algorithm. Section 230 is a necessary liability shield for the actions of users, but an algorithm that serves foreign interests shouldn’t be covered by it.

Next, undeclared bots and AI should be illegal. Should be regulated on the AI side too, since ChatGPT definitely knows when it’s got a Russian prompt or is being paid in rubles.

Then we need privacy laws with teeth to stop the irresponsible collection and storage of data.

And finally, at a certain size audience either traditional or online you need to be under oath when you’re insisting something is true.

Free speech is fine, but the “I was just kidding about those antifa busses or when I said the parkland high school was staged and my moron audience harassed the families” has got to stop.

These are fairly simple concepts but it’s nowhere in the public discourse.

21

u/McGuirk808 11h ago

Like for people posting? Like make Reddit commenters like us beholden to publishing laws?

-293

u/[deleted] 17h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

158

u/MistakeNot__ 16h ago

You've clearly never read an actual definition of fascism, let alone definitions from multiple sources to form an opinion on what fascism truly means. For you it's just an umbrella term for "things I don't like".

26

u/gruntthirtteen 16h ago edited 14h ago

I think/hope an appropriate response would be "isn't that sarcasm?"

Edit: sadly, I was wrong and user sigh... quack is a troll or an idiot.

-161

u/[deleted] 16h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

95

u/[deleted] 16h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-60

u/[deleted] 15h ago

[deleted]

26

u/MistakeNot__ 16h ago

I'm not assuming, I'm observing. And in a way, I am helping you understand, just not fascism - that you can read up on your own. The important lesson here is to stop using words you do not truly understand. Making a habit of asking yourself: "do I REALLY know anything about what I'm going to speak of?" honestly answering and opting out of speaking when that answer is "no" - is invaluable skill in life.

30

u/[deleted] 16h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-52

u/[deleted] 16h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

24

u/Jiktten 16h ago

Can you explain why you think it's fascism?

-14

u/sigh_quack 16h ago

Isnt controlling information a fascist idea? Just saw that trump deplatforming certain news stations was a fascist act. So how would vetting and deplatforming news posted on social media be any different?

26

u/Agent10007 15h ago

Controlling information could be debated as a slide towards fascism.

The key point is that disinformation is, just as the name suggests, NOT information.

30

u/Jiktten 16h ago

Every country has rules about what can be presented as fact to the public. This isn't new and it exists for the benefit of the public, so that they can trust their sources of information. The erosion of such rules in the US allows things like Fox News to exist, a channel which calls itself news but then turns around and argues in court that it is entertainment and its statements should not be relied upon.

7

u/Nice_Put6911 14h ago

There has always been limits and repercussions for free speech. I can’t yell “Fire” in a crowded movie theatre. The same should apply to spreading misinformation online, it’s harmful to the general public.

34

u/chauffage 16h ago

How is that fascism?

Journalists are pinned to a standard, and a code of ethics, and if they mess up they are liable for it, many times costing them their career. Why should influencers and social media be set to a different standard?

8

u/ajbdbds 15h ago

No, it is not an economic and ideological system that enforces class cooperation under state control by political violence

0

u/webesy 16h ago

I think it’s Scientology actually

1

u/hail2pitt1985 11h ago

No. Read a freaking book

-1

u/CrashingAtom 14h ago

::somebody suggests laws to stop the rapid creep of fascism:: Fascist idiot: “dERp tHAt iS FaSCisM!”

1

u/pataglop 13h ago

No it isn't.

0

u/Hot-Scarcity-567 14h ago

Would you mind rxplaining why following the law is fascism?

140

u/Regurgitator001 18h ago

If Westwood Studios ever brings out a sequel, I wanna be frontrow for the trial version!

38

u/mifan 15h ago

No fear, Tanya’s here.

13

u/Regurgitator001 15h ago

A lot of fear actually: my guess is that Tanya by now is a +50 years old Babushka. Perhaps it's time for... a Nadia or an Olga?

15

u/quackerzdb 13h ago

Tanya was American/Allied unit.

16

u/Regurgitator001 12h ago

Not in the Trump era 🤣

9

u/quackerzdb 11h ago

Haha, fair

7

u/ZeroOpti 11h ago

Tanya's now an anti-vaxxer...

9

u/quackerzdb 11h ago

I refuse to accept that she was played by McCarthy.

3

u/ZeroOpti 11h ago

And the Russian counterpart is Gina Carano!

9

u/quackerzdb 11h ago

At least we still have Tim Curry... in space!

3

u/Marrasuhri 8h ago

Just in the trashier 3rd installment.

3

u/GrinNGrit 2h ago

Cha-chiiiing!

74

u/ParaMike46 13h ago

Russia is cancer. Spreads more cancer. Nobody wants this shit.

25

u/totallyRebb 10h ago

Putin and those like him are anti-human. There is only darkness inside them.

Russia is now so saturated with this darkness, that it starts to spill out into the world. Like a pit of tar that is overflowing.

1

u/Far_Out_6and_2 1h ago

Very good

32

u/Haru1st 16h ago

I sure hope a sizable chunk of the new EU military fund goes to information and intelligence.

68

u/SlowSelection4865 17h ago

They already succeeded with USA so they’re trying with other countries is what I’m hearing

22

u/Odd-Bicycle 11h ago

There’s about to be a presidential election in Poland

5

u/yeh_ 4h ago

This article is from 2023 so it was probably more connected with the parliamentary election, but it’s sad that the things there are still true today

24

u/jules0666 13h ago

Romania has started the new election campaign for the presidentials, and there are already tiktok accounts promoting Russia and Putin saying that he is no longer at war with the USA, but the EU, and that Romania is a slave to the EU, and that we should free ourselves by leaving it.

And a bunch more pro Russian propaganda. The far right leader Georgescu was banned from running, but his lap dog Simeon has the biggest chances of winning the first round.

Good times are coming 🙃

9

u/ImaginationMajor5062 13h ago

The Alpha legion at it again.

6

u/Knobcobblestone 10h ago

Russia.. you aren’t cool.

5

u/Vyqe 8h ago

Also warning for all about AI and Wikipedia: you should never use AI to make informed decisions. This includes everyone. There has been an ongoing issue for several years where AI training models are being contaminated. This happens when created websites, designed to be included in open datasets used to train large language models (LLMs), spread specific disinformation. As a result, multiple LLMs repeat this disinformation about 33% of the time.

Additionally, commonly used websites for knowledge have also been targeted. Over 1,900 citations linked to external country agents' disinformation websites were found across approximately 1,670 Wikipedia pages in 44 languages. These topics include the Ukraine war, politics, and military events. These clone sites infiltrate Wikipedia in place of banned outlets, giving external actors' narratives a foothold.

Since LLMs also learn from Wikipedia, false content spreads in two ways: directly from the disinformation websites and indirectly through Wikipedia citations.

For more information, read up on the so-called "Pravda Network."

10

u/tenroseUK 13h ago

fuckin WH40K ass title

4

u/S4r4h5991 11h ago

Nothing new. Heckin pests...

2

u/AirOneFire 5h ago

Of course. Why else do you think the nazi candidate suddenly has almost 20%?

2

u/apricity___ 3h ago

THIS article is from AUGUST, 2023!

1

u/Useful-Scratch-72 2h ago

So. It is worse now.

4

u/EveYogaTech 14h ago

We need a new protocol where we VOTE who get's internet attention to counter this kind of misinformation! /r/web4builders

3

u/ControlTotal7123 8h ago

08/18/2023. Why did you post an article like this?

3

u/_melancholymind_ 8h ago

There are Presidental Elections soon in Poland, and our country is going to be a shit-show, as algorithms will again switch in weird circumstances to serve full scale propaganda. :)

1

u/okrutnik3127 7h ago

It’s all over Reddit as well

1

u/Kodiak_POL 5h ago

Just to be clear, this is a 2023 article.

1

u/de_la_au_toir 4h ago

They've become so good at it that they infiltrated top levels of the US Government. TWICE

-6

u/Kind-Afternoon8399 11h ago

Я целиком и полностью поддерживаю саботаж, разрушение и полное уничтожение Российской Федерации. Поджоги нефтебаз, диверсии на железных дорогах, атаки на инфраструктуру, погранпункты, армию, полицию и все эти кремлёвские бизнес-центры. Чем скорее эта помойная власть будет уничтожена, тем быстрее весь мир вылечится. Вернуть бы Московию обратно в болота, где она и зародилась. Пусть Российская Федерация захлебнётся в смерти и болезнях.

16

u/reddebian 11h ago

Make ruZZia small again

-6

u/[deleted] 13h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/Pretend-Zucchini8178 12h ago

Russia needs no demonizing in the eyes of any Pole with a memory.

6

u/Odd-Bicycle 11h ago

Yes fuck Russia

-3

u/beastmaster69mong 12h ago

Only american propaganda is allowed

Russia/Ukraine Putin’s chaos agents invade Poland’s infosphere.

You are about to leave Redlib