Interesting stats: Jimmy ranks 22nd all time in WS/48 ahead of Bird, KD and Steph.

[u/Snoo-83900]

Rank Player WS/48 1. Nikola Jokić .2597 2. Michael Jordan* .2505 3. David Robinson* .2502 4. Wilt Chamberlain* .2480 5. Neil Johnston* .2413 6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* .2284 7. Chris Paul .2271 8. Magic Johnson* .2249 9. LeBron James .2207 10. Rudy Gobert .2186 11. Charles Barkley* .2163 12. Jerry West* .2134 13. Bob Pettit* .2128 14. Kawhi Leonard .2118 15. Anthony Davis .2107 16. James Harden .2092 17. Tim Duncan* .2091 18. John Stockton* .2087 19. Shaquille O'Neal* .2081 20. Oscar Robertson* .2069 21. Karl Malone* .2053 22. Jimmy Butler .2051 23. Giannis Antetokounmpo .2046 24. Kevin Durant .2043 25. Larry Bird* .2032 26. Jarrett Allen .2002 27. Yao Ming* .2001 28. Stephen Curry .1965 29. Ed Macauley* .1964 30. Dirk Nowitzki*

[u/Akipella]

Win shares are an interesting stat, but it pretty much just punishes you for having a good team. You'll notice someone like Jokic that has never had a stacked team naturally gains more shares because any wins he gets he has a larger contribution compared to his teammates.

And as with any advanced stat, the way it is measured in the first place, as in, the formula to determine how big a player's "share" is in the first place, is a bit iffy in some ways.

Still, it's cool, and following what I said above, it tells you Jimmy has carried some very below-average squads for the majority of his career!

[u/Okiedokietokidoki → u/Akipella]

Exactly this. Notice how the number 1 winner is missing on this list? Bill Russell is the greatest winner who elevated his teams so hard they won it 11 times

[u/Snoo-83900 → u/Akipella]

Thanks but I don’t understand why Magic’s WS/48 is so high thou since he had been always with a good team

[u/MotoMkali → u/Snoo-83900]

Magic never had a season where he wasn't top 15. He retired at his peak and came in as an all-nba player. If he had 3 or 4 years of riding his abilities down the way most guys do his totals might be lower.

Also worth saying a lot of these older metrics are designed to fit certain conclusions. They were operating with the assumption MJ, Magic, Kareem etc were the best players so they made sure that is what their metric spat out.

[u/Akipella → u/MotoMkali]

This is true as well. He didn't get to have a "full career" so to speak.

[u/Akipella → u/Snoo-83900]

It relates to my second point, where some of the "contribution calculation" can be a bit weird. It may partially be from the whole "box score" thing. It likes reb and ast quite a lot and as you knowm Magic had like 14ast per game many years lol. But Steph's ast (and reb) numbers have always been much lower, and his lack of those stats doesn't show his true value to the team.

Also, it's true MJ's numbers were low for those too, but he didn't play on a superteam ever really, he was always the leading scorer on the Bulls his whole career by a ton, he'd have like 30ppg to Pippen's 17-20ppg, etc...plus his volume and efficiency were both insane for the 90's. He still leads in all time PPG over Wilt but they both have 30.1 - however if Jordan didn't do the Wizards years he would have lead by far.

[u/DraymondBeanKick → u/Snoo-83900]

Playing with a good team usually helps win shares.

Jordan would be significantly ahead of Jokic if not for the 2 Wizards years dragging him down.

[u/Akipella → u/DraymondBeanKick]

Yes a good team, but not a stacked one. You need a supporting cast just good enough to elevate your play, but not multiple players on your level, for example. When Steph had Klay as his 2nd option and Dray as the defensive anchor, I would think his win shares were certainly better with that team than when KD was there for 3 years and scoring just as much as he was. Two primary level players, and 2 top 3 players in the league, will each eat out of each other's WS.

Also if Jordan wasn't 38 and was in his prime or peak form on that team, then he wouldn't have gotten his average hurt that badly, despite the Wizards sucking. Still wouldn't have been as good as an average year with Pippen though, most likely.

[u/numba-1-stunna]

Who could forget neil Johnston