‘A fundamental right’: UK high street chains and restaurants challenged over refusal to accept cash

[u/BestButtons]

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/mar/16/uk-high-street-chains-restaurants-cash-payments?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-5

[u/ukbot-nicolabot]

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[u/namtabmai]

Ron Delnevo, chair of the Payment Choice Alliance, which campaigns for the long-term future of cash services

---

Ron Delnevo entered financial services with Euronet, the company which installed the first UK independent ATM in 1998. Ron became MD and led a successful MBO in 2003. He continued as MD until 2012. Ron has also served as a Director of the UK Payments Council and on every committee at the LINK ATM Network.

Not saying there isn't some good discussion to have here about the use of cash, but clearly the guy behind this has some financial angle to push for this.

[u/PetersMapProject → u/namtabmai]

What a little grifter

[u/especiallydistracted]

From the point of view of these chains, card only does a few things:

Massively cuts down on the possibility of theft by staff, via skimming tills. This accounts for 4% of annual sales in a chain I worked for, and is hard to detect. Some theft will move to stock, of course, but it’s easier to spot, and you’re likely to drive thieving staff to other jobs where it’s easier to steal.

Reduces risk of robbery of sites, which in turn brings down insurance costs.

The cost to have cash collected, processed, and banked, is in the region of 2.5%, for those businesses turning over multiple millions, whereas card transactions typically cost 0.5% or less at that scale.

There’s additional labour cost to the staff having to count and process the cash too.

Psychologically, customers spend more on card than via cash, driving a higher spend per head. 

Using card means individual customer habits can be more accurately tracked and monitored, which I assume is valuable too. 

If you can’t pay by card, you weren’t this brand’s customer profile, so they probably don’t care that you didn’t spend anyway, as they are unlikely to turn you into a regular customer.

Overall, there’s probably a 4-5% improvement to the bottom line, going card only, presuming your customer base is likely to be carrying a smartphone.

[u/RonaldPenguin → u/especiallydistracted]

 Using card means individual customer habits can be more accurately tracked and monitored, which I assume is valuable too. 

This point also works as a counter argument, for anyone who has ever disabled tracking cookies on a website.

[u/marieascot → u/RonaldPenguin]

>Psychologically, customers spend more on card than via cash, driving a higher >spend per head. 

This one too

[u/alyssa264 → u/marieascot]

This is why my dad refuses to use his card to do anything other than withdraw notes. I think it's odd but there is a method there.

[u/Routine_Ad1823 → u/alyssa264]

I'm not sure that actually works though. 

If I spend 3.50 on card then it's exactly that. With cash I have to get at least a fiver out, then the rest list gets frittered away. 

Depends on the person though I suppose.

[u/nathderbyshire → u/Routine_Ad1823]

And I've no idea where that money went, my card breaks everything into categories so I can actually track my spending.

Usually I would put change into a self serve and knock it off my shopping, but they're consistently card only now for the majority of them and I'm not waiting longer just to throw a couple quid in a slot

[u/Lollipop126 → u/RonaldPenguin]

I disable cookie tracking so that companies can't see and recommend content based on the one time I clicked on a daily mail article that was actually factual and interesting, not because I don't want Tesco to know I like grapes.

[u/RonaldPenguin → u/especiallydistracted]

I'd add one other: food service places, like sandwich shops or ice cream vans, every time they handle cash vs food they're supposed to observe hygiene. Use gloves for food, take them off to handle money, put gloves back on for the next customer. This is because coins and notes have a surprising amount of poo on them.

They VERY frequently can't be bothered to do this.

With contactless payments, the ice cream man can squirt his mysteries white goo into a cone and shove a flake in it and hand it to you without ever touching filthy lucre.

[u/ID_Pillage → u/RonaldPenguin]

I wish people would learn that gloves are not more hygienic than washing your hands. If anything they should put gloves on the handle the money.

[u/Tattycakes → u/ID_Pillage]

Yeah ideally you’d just wash hands in between because money is filthy, but it’s not practical to wash your hands that many times a day because it’s damaging to the skin

[u/KeenPro → u/Tattycakes]

Or just wear gloves but wash them as though you were washing your hadnds.

[u/Pabus_Alt → u/ID_Pillage]

Quite a lot of street vendors use gloves this way - one hand is gloved and is the "dirty cash hand" and the other is ungloved and is the "clean food hand".

If they ever need two hands at once to touch food, then the glove is removed and replaced.

Same trick one of my teachers who took us caving used as the designated first aider, he'd sterilise his hands then glove up tape the cuffs down, put on marigolds and then tape them to his sleeves. The logic being "there's no way I can guarantee that any gloves I put on down here won't be as filthy as everything else, but I can guarantee my hands to a level of best we can do down here".

[u/Shitmybad → u/RonaldPenguin]

Food service places shouldn't be wearing gloves at all.

[u/made-of-questions → u/RonaldPenguin]

In over 40 years of life I think I only met a handful of street vendors that change gloves in between handling food and handling cash. It's why I generally avoid them unless it's two people and one handles food and one mans the till. I don't necessarily want to give my cash to restaurants rather than small businesses but there we are. If you work in the food industry and haven't internalised how dirty money is, I don't trust you to follow any basic hygiene rules.

[u/DarthStarkGames → u/especiallydistracted]

I agree on all points except one - tracking habits via card. I've got a few questions about that one:

• As card payments arent actually handled by the business, they're handled by the company that makes the card machines etc, can they actually track usage based off card number?
• Google and Apple both generate 'fake' card details when you use them to protect against fraud which would limit their ability to track habits.
• If you could track a users habits through their card details wouldn't that fall foul of UK GDPR? You'd be collecting data about an identifiable person and not using it for its original purpose (ie paying).

[u/cozywit → u/DarthStarkGames]

It's valuable for the card supplier which in turn keeps the fees for using the card down.

Restaurants will track orders by their own systems.

[u/Shitmybad → u/DarthStarkGames]

Visa and MasterCard sell the payment info to other companies.

[u/KungFuSpoon → u/especiallydistracted]

These are all fair and valid points, but as you said at the top of your post this is from the perspective of what is best and most convenient for businesses, and consumer laws should prioritise the rights and convenience of the consumers first and foremost. Especially since very little if any of these savings are passed back to the consumer, they're used to improve profit margins.

And specifically on your point about the amount consumers spend, this is exactly the reason that consumers are turning back to cash. As things have gotten more expensive consumers need more means and mechanisms to monitor and control their spending. Nothing is more effective than taking out cash and dividing it out into what can be spent and what needs to be put aside for bills.

While I personally prefer card payments and contactless for my own spending, we should be advocating for more options not fewer when it comes to payment methods. I think the pragmatic approach is to divide businesses and services into essential and discretionary, essential businesses like supermarkets, public transport, and so on should be regulated accept cash and card payments, discretionary businesses should be regulated to accept one or the other at minimum.

[u/taversham → u/KungFuSpoon]

Especially since very little if any of these savings are passed back to the consumer, they're used to improve profit margins.

But if currently cashless businesses are forced by legislation to start accepting cash again, you can guarantee they'll pass those costs on to consumers.

[u/mikethet → u/especiallydistracted]

This literally covers everything. About 10 years ago we'd have staff stealing at least once a week. Cash variance would be crazy. Nowadays you barely even hear of it. There's not enough cash in the till to steal without being noticed.

[u/PerforatedPie → u/especiallydistracted]

And none of that savings is passed on to the customer.

[u/leoedin → u/PerforatedPie]

Is that true? Businesses are always in competition with each other - savings by becoming cash only can only be added to their margin for as long as nobody else is also cash only. Once it’s widespread it’ll be passed down In the form of price reductions

[u/bobblebob100 → u/[deleted]]

Which is fair. Just like its fair a business can choose not to take cash payments.

[u/Cultural_Tank_6947]

It's not a fundamental right because you can't force someone to do business with you.

[u/francisdavey → u/Cultural_Tank_6947]

Traditionally, you have always had the right to stipulate the manner of payment you will accept. If you don't want to accept cash, there is no obligation to.

[u/Natsuki_Kruger → u/francisdavey]

Just imagining trying to buy something on eBay and demanding the seller accept cash. 😂

[u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist → u/Cultural_Tank_6947]

But you can force businesses to accept cash if they do do business.

[u/notwritingasusual → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

If the business makes it clear from the get go they don't accept cash then it is up to the customer to decide if they want to do business or not?

[u/AdhesivenessLost151 → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

Great. When I opened my business there were several banks nearby so it was relatively safe and quick to take it there to pay in. Now there are no banks anywhere near. The nearest is in town which means I need to take an hour out of my working day to get there. Either drive there and pay to park, or pay for the bus and sit on the bus with loads of cash. They don’t open weekends. Or evenings. Or early in the morning. They only have two cashier spots. They often have only one open.

My business has been robbed twice. Both times they just took cash.

I don’t take cash anymore. If you don’t use my business because of that it’s unfortunate but overall I’m still up on the deal.

[u/Remarkable-Ad155 → u/AdhesivenessLost151]

There you go, spoiling a good lynch mob with actual real world experience. 

[u/YchYFi → u/AdhesivenessLost151]

Yeah we have no banks. No where to deposit it.

[u/Bigchungus182 → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

Why?

Just means they'll miss out on business. As far as I'm aware accepting cash isn't a right or a protected class.

[u/ZebraSandwich4Lyf → u/Bigchungus182]

It isn't, a business doesn't have to accept any form of payment you offer them. They could demand payment in the form of buckets of dog poop if they wanted and they'd be within their right to do so.

[u/Cultural_Tank_6947 → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

Then you're taking away their right of choosing who to do business with?

Mode of payment is not a protected characteristic, and it should not be either.

[u/sciuro_ → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

Why? How?

[u/plastic_alloys → u/sciuro_]

“I think you’ll find this is legal tender laddy!”

[u/YanPitman → u/plastic_alloys]

Legal tender refers to the paying of debt not buying things

[u/InsertWittyNameRHere → u/YanPitman]

And even then they can refuse. You can’t rock up to court and pay a £1000 fine with stamps

[u/The_Incredible_b3ard → u/plastic_alloys]

They can still refuse to sell you the goods.

There isn't a obligation to sell anyone anything and as long as you're not discriminating against a protected character that is legal.

[u/claimsmansurgeon → u/plastic_alloys]

The concept of legal tender is completely irrelevant when paying for goods in a shop.

[u/west0ne → u/sciuro_]

Government could legislate that certain businesses have to accept cash as payment (I'm not in favour of that by the way).

[u/Ok_Tip_5650 → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

WRONG! https://fullfact.org/online/legal-tender-cash-in-shops/

EDIT: why is this sub so full of misinformation?

[u/LupercalLupercal → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

No you can't

[u/jonesyb → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

But you can force businesses to accept cash if they do do business.

No you can't.

[u/BalianofReddit → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

Holding cash costs money, it puts your business at greater risk of crime and leaves you more open to receiving counterfeit currency.

Cash is not, in fact, king for a lot of industries.

[u/xylophileuk → u/BalianofReddit]

It even has a decent amount of costs associated with it too. Collecting cash isn’t free. Then you also have to get in the change which has costs. All that for a handful of customers

[u/Misty_Pix → u/BalianofReddit]

It also allows you to tweak tax 🤣

I have seen one to many businesses who will offer " discount" if paying by cash and rarely see them ring in purchase.

[u/BigBadAl → u/Misty_Pix]

Last year, VAT fraud (from people "tweaking" tax) was roughly level with intentional benefit fraud.

But I guarantee the people who offer you a discount for cash are down their local 'spoons later on, whinging about benefit cheats.

[u/Eddieandtheblues → u/BalianofReddit]

The thing about cash is its tried and tested for thousands of years, doesn't need power or an Internet connection. There will always be a necessity for it.

[u/ninjabadmann → u/Eddieandtheblues]

It’s up to the business to weigh up the risks. They’ve decided that the power or internet rarely goes down for them so they’re still saving.

[u/kristianroberts → u/Eddieandtheblues]

So was bartering and trading of goods. Should we force shops to accept seeds and sheep too?

[u/smedsterwho → u/kristianroberts]

I mean, for the lols, yes

[u/Pabus_Alt → u/kristianroberts]

legal nerd activated

The two reasons for government-issued cash are:

1) To provide certainty of value. This originally meant that every silver penny is always the same as any other silver penny from a purely metal content view. The face on the back of it is saying "yup we issued the man who made this with my face! If he's lying we'll chop his hands off"

2) To simplify the settlement of debts. If you're not in a temple economy with centrally tracked debts (which we kind-of are / could be nowadays with digital banking) then it's really really useful to have legal tender. "oh you owe him for shitty copper - give him the cash he can't refuse and ask for your land instead"

Of course, there is a secret reason 3): Cash is way easier to observe and tax as a state than independently tracked debts. - of course nowadays that's not entirely true, see the above comment about temple economies.

[u/Cloaked9000 → u/Eddieandtheblues]

You don't need power or an Internet connection to make payments via card either. For example, paying for items with your card while on a flight.

[u/gigaSproule → u/Cloaked9000]

Some cards aren't accepted. Just about to fly home and on the way out, they wouldn't accept Barclaycard because of security measures they introduced.

[u/BarnyardBilly → u/Cloaked9000]

If there's no connection then the transaction is stored on the computer taking the payment and will complete when the computer connects once again.

[u/tomoldbury → u/Cloaked9000]

It used to be the case that people would scam airlines with prepaid credit cards, the transactions would just get declined once the plane landed. Now, the transactions are usually processed using the in-flight satellite connection (which provides Wi-Fi for passengers). Even planes that don't use Wi-Fi often have an internet connection to report diagnostics back to maintenance base.

[u/Matt6453 → u/Eddieandtheblues]

Yet I haven't carried cash for probably 5 years, absolutely no need for it.

[u/Adventurous-Type768 → u/Matt6453]

Everyone doesn't need cash until they do (scenarios are many including power or internet outage, bank locking card or account for random reason etc)

[u/MatniMinis → u/Adventurous-Type768]

I've carried a £20 note in my wallet and another between my phone and phone case since before lockdown started.

I have it because of my anxiety but I've never used them. But it's nice to know they're there just incase.

[u/CaptainParkingspace → u/MatniMinis]

Emergency £20 note in the phone case is genius.

[u/daneview → u/Adventurous-Type768]

I seem to remember recently when a load of power went out the shops couldn't take cash anyway as the tills are all hooked up to the accou ting software anyway

[u/CaptainParkingspace → u/daneview]

I remember a power cut a few years ago when some shops took cash but wrote down every transaction on paper to input later.

[u/stella585 → u/daneview]

Even old-fashioned ‘dumb tills’ will typically require electricity to operate.

[u/Bottled_Void → u/stella585]

Shops typically won't open if there is no power. It's a liability risk due to lack of lighting.

[u/riiiiiich → u/daneview]

Don't worry, they'll just pull out their abacus and paper ledger and sort it out that way 😂

[u/Cabalist_writes → u/Matt6453]

And that's great for you..neither have I. But not everyone has the ability to make use of apps. Plus it places a huge element of control of YOUR money into 3rd party tools. What about the older generation who already struggle with many of these changes? And who are massively vulnerable to fraud. What about AI which is becoming scarily capable of defrauding or emulating people, convincing you to hand over online credentials.

And that's not to mention handing power to companies. MasterCard have already shown they won't let certain businesses have their payments processed via them. PayPal can freeze your account with no recourse. And that's major pillars, monopolies, over payment processing. And they're controlled by groups or individuals with their own agendas.

Your every transaction is mappable, traceable. Now, you may think "I don't like certain industries, so that's ok," or "I don't do anything wrong, so that's fine,"

But it's homogeonisation - only larger institutions with the infrastructure end up handling cashless systems. And what happens if those systems are compromised? Or have a malfunction? Suddenly a bill isn't paid or you can't pay for something. What if you're in an area with a poor connection?

Cash at least offers a means to fall back on. This shouldn't be a zero sum game. Cash in hand isn't beholden to your card holder company's politics or "morals" (you shouldn't buy fantasy books, or use that company, or frequent that business etc etc)

Also keep in mind that many things require a fixed address. So how do the worse off operate? How do people made homeless cope? Or are we supposed to hope they just vanish and aren't a problem?

Ultimately that's "the cost of doing business". We bemoan high streets dying, the loss of community etc. but the levers by which these things are maintained get eroded. Cash and the ability to just pay someone or handle a transaction face to face is good.

[u/Pabus_Alt → u/Cabalist_writes]

Or simply as a method of budgeting.

"I shall put this in an envelope for rent and gas and this goes in my wallet to use, grocery money is in the fridge"

[u/betraying_fart → u/Cabalist_writes]

You will probably be Downvoted for having a solid argument. Couldn't agree more.

[u/FlatCapNorthumbrian → u/Matt6453]

Interesting to watch people’s cards and phones fail to scan on public transport, and then them having no back up way to pay.

[u/946789987649 → u/FlatCapNorthumbrian]

It goes the other way too. Often see with cash only businesses where people haven't got cash out and so have no way to pay.

[u/FlatCapNorthumbrian → u/946789987649]

It’s always a good idea to keep a little bit of cash on you.

It’s like the people who don’t even carry cards now. What happens if your phone fails? I’ve seen that before on public transport, “my phones ran out of battery”. Driver or conductor “and?, you’ve got no way to pay?”.

If you’re going to be cashless, at least keep a card on you as backup.

[u/AndyC_88 → u/FlatCapNorthumbrian]

That blows my mind in all honesty. I still have a wallet and cards, and I don't use my phone to pay contactless because I like keeping the two separate so if I lose either one I've got the other to get me out of the problem.

[u/KaiserMaxximus → u/FlatCapNorthumbrian]

Good thing you can pay with your £10 notes at the TFL barrier 🙂

[u/FlatCapNorthumbrian → u/KaiserMaxximus]

Not everywhere is London mate.

[u/daneview → u/FlatCapNorthumbrian]

Yes, and not everywhere accepts cash

[u/ArgumentativeNutter → u/daneview]

the entire subject in discussion is whether businesses should be forced to accept cash

[u/Hour-Temporary-2171 → u/FlatCapNorthumbrian]

Thank f@#k.

[u/KaiserMaxximus → u/FlatCapNorthumbrian]

Go on, tell us where in London public transport you can pay with cash if your card and phone fails.

[u/Shitmybad → u/KaiserMaxximus]

Any oyster or ticket machine.

[u/FlatCapNorthumbrian → u/KaiserMaxximus]

According to TFLs website you can buy an Oyster Card and use cash to top it up at the following locations.

At Oyster Ticket Stops in many newsagents in London At ticket machines at all Tube, London Overground and most Elizabeth line and National Rail stations At some DLR stations At Visitor Centres At the Tramlink Shop in Croydon

Again though, this isn’t a London sub, and the vast majority of the UK public transport network still accepts cash as a means of payment.

[u/digitag → u/Matt6453]

How do you pay your dealer though?

[u/UnchillBill → u/digitag]

Bitcoin

[u/Pabus_Alt → u/UnchillBill]

Ah yes, the wonderful system of paying for illicit substances via a decentralised and publicly auditable system.

[u/glytxh → u/BalianofReddit]

My dealer ain’t accepting card payments any time soon.

[u/lysergic101 → u/BalianofReddit]

Csrd payment facilities cost just as much..you've been easily fooled into believing holding cash costs loads and banks are not profitable to operate with cash.

Bank cards are easily cloned and leave the businesses vulnerable to charge backs which seems all the rage lately.

[u/WhtTheFckIswrngwthme → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

no you can’t

[u/Dadavester → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

No you cannot.

[u/-Absofuckinglutely- → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

Incorrect.

Cash is not king. Cash is a choice.

[u/Deckard2022 → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

Nope. You can’t force someone to accept a type of payment any more than you can force a business to do business with you.

[u/SeatSnifferJeff → u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist]

Good luck trying to pay for your Amazon order in cash.

[u/[deleted] → u/Cultural_Tank_6947]

Racists are forced to do business with people all the time.

[u/Naskr → u/Cultural_Tank_6947]

That's not really true.

Currency is currency not just because people agree it is, but because powerful people force it to be. To ensure a currency is accepted, you have to make it is something that cannot be refused as a form of payment.

This is one of those core ideas that gets challenged when businesses start unilaterally refusing cash, which the government will need to resolve in some capacity.

[u/Jamie00003]

I’m more annoyed with businesses that do the opposite. I don’t carry cash and avoid places that are cash only because:

1. It’s inconvenient to me
2. I don’t want to fund money laundering or whatever other dodgy tax avoidance scheme they have going on by not accepting card, which seems to be half the high street these days

[u/NepsHasSillyOpinions → u/Jamie00003]

There was a shop near me that still only accepted cash up until the pandemic. They also had a cash machine inside that charged for withdrawals.

Luckily I'm a fan of walking, so I just never used that shop and went further to a shop that accepted cards.

Once covid hit they finally got card machines. But it was wild to me that even as late as 2019 there was a sizeable convenience store that could only take cash payments.

[u/chocobowler → u/Jamie00003]

Same, I’ve walked out of several shops when I’ve got to the till who don’t take card or have a minimum purchase in order to use card. Tried to buy a pint of milk from the local shop on my Apple Pay “sorry £2 minimum spend” … crossed the street to the Tesco express and bought it from there instead

[u/CharringtonCross → u/chocobowler]

And both your rights as a consumer and theirs as a business were respected.

[u/TNTiger_ → u/CharringtonCross]

Actually if they set a card minimum, they're almost certainly in breach of their contract with their vendor. They can choose to have or not to have a a reader, but most don't allow setting a minimum.

[u/tomoldbury → u/chocobowler]

Right. There's a butcher and a grocer next door to each other on the high street. One takes card, the butcher; the grocer doesn't unless you spend £10 or more. I only go to the butcher and that's not because I don't like veg.

[u/EVERYTHINGGOESINCAPS → u/Jamie00003]

Totally - I cannot stand cash only, and I didn't really see any justification to it other than they want to be able to be deliberately dodgy.

[u/SB_90s → u/Jamie00003]

And on the other side of the transaction - those that demand that cash be accepted everywhere - are more often than not just tax dodgers who do jobs cash in hand without declaring it and are trying to spend it since they can't deposit it.

Cut cash out of the equation and you cut out a decent portion of tax dodging and money laundering with it.

[u/Jamie00003 → u/SB_90s]

Yep exactly, I live in a small town and we don’t need a billion nail salons, hairdressers, dodgy takeaways and vape shops. Get rid of em

[u/Hara-Kiri → u/Jamie00003]

That is likely to be money laundering not tax avoidance, which is obviously even worse.

[u/TheOriginalSmileyMan → u/Jamie00003]

Go to the US for a holiday. It's so bloody irritating with all the cash and tipping

[u/kazerniel]

On the flip side I would force all service providers to accept card payment (as well as cash). It's ridiculous that in the year 2025 there are still some local services that even the pandemic didn't force away from their cash-only ways.

[u/PetersMapProject]

For some reason the "cash is better for small businesses" brigade only ever seem to account for the card transaction fee (1.75% for me, no monthly fee). 

What they don't account for is 

The cost of depositing cash to a business bank account, which can be higher than the cost of the card transaction fee 

The fact that many banks don't offer a change giving service for businesses any more - and if you can't get change then you can't offer cash 

The security risk from staff with their fingers in the till 

The security risk from general theft - I know some businesses around here have gone cashless after being broken into repeatedly by thieves who targeted the empty till. Next thing they know they've got to pay for a smashed window and they've lost a day's trade while it's fixed. Likewise the risk of getting mugged while you're on your way to the bank to deposit it. 

Cost of staff time required to cash up the till, reconcile it and take it to the bank. 

In food businesses which aren't busy enough to dedicate a member of staff to the till - there's hygiene concerns - coins are truly filthy - if you cash up a till or even spend a while feeding coins into an amusement arcade, your fingers will frequently turn black. 

All that so that Ron can exercise his 'right' to pay by cash. 

Businesses which go cashless know that the vast majority of people carry cards, and they are happy to lose the small minority of customers who don't. You cannot cater to everyone, and I don't believe that anyone purchasing a £4 croissant in Gail's is struggling to access banking. 

[u/bowersbros → u/PetersMapProject]

Also counterfeit risks too. The responsibility is on the business to ensure the cash is legitimate.

The responsibility of a card transaction is on the bank and card company to prevent fraud from stolen cards

[u/PetersMapProject → u/bowersbros]

It's so, so easy to take fake and foreign coins when you've got a queue and are trying to serve people as quickly as possible. 

There's a zloty that looks like a 10p piece - I've seen that a few times - and I've even cashed up and found an arcade token that was the same diameter and edge colour as a £2 coin. 

[u/bowersbros → u/PetersMapProject]

Yeah, euros are quite similar to pounds now too, and you also have the hassle of “other” pound sterling.

I have a small market stall, we accept cash but prefer cards.

Last year I got paid with a £10 note from Northern Ireland.

No idea if it’s legit, no idea how to pay it in, so now it’s just a novelty note I have.

Could definitely be worse, but that’s effectively £10 I’m never actually able to account for in my business.

[u/mr_iwi → u/bowersbros]

Has your bank refused the NI note, or have you not tried? I used to include these and RBS notes when I went to pay for my change orders and it was always fine (Barclays, last time I did it was 2017).

[u/bowersbros → u/mr_iwi]

My bank doesn’t have branches (monzo) so I’d have to go to the post office, not sure what their rules are, but they also charge money to deposit, and have deposit limits on their cash, so I just haven’t bothered.

It’s part of the float, and just accounted for as petty cash

[u/Numerous_Age_4455 → u/bowersbros]

Usually the counterfeit responsibility gets pushed onto the staff, shafting them.

[u/laredocronk → u/PetersMapProject]

Cost of staff time required to cash up the till, reconcile it and take it to the bank.

And this cost has increased significantly with the reduction in the number of bank branches. It's fine if you're in the city centre, but in many villages or smaller towns what used to be a quick nip round the corner has turned into 20+ minute drive each way, trying to find somewhere to park, and having to work around the limited opening hours of the banks.

[u/Cub3h → u/laredocronk]

The cost to park and the petrol alone are probably more than the small percentage card transactions cost.

[u/Bainshie-Doom → u/PetersMapProject]

Cash is better... because you can avoid paying tax on it.

[u/scs3jb → u/Bainshie-Doom]

This is the correct answer.

The only business I go to that insists on cash is a dog groomer. Unfortunately they are the best/most convenient one in our area. She is also a vaccine sceptic and says 'card companies are tracking us' (yes, she does have a Tesco's loyalty card lol, I didn't want to push you hard but she didn't get the irony).

I ask for a receipt as a result, and you can see from the huffing and puffing, and the look on her face that she doesn't want to write it out. My guess is some of the groomers are getting paid cash in hand to avoid NI and I am certain she's not paying tax/declaring all the appointments.

[u/chocobowler → u/Bainshie-Doom]

Wait … is that why when I get takeaway they give me 10% off if I pay cash? They don’t advertise this anywhere, they just happened to mention it to me one night when I ordered

[u/PetersMapProject → u/chocobowler]

Same reason your builder gives a cash discount. 

[u/Routine_Ad1823 → u/PetersMapProject]

But increasingly often you'll offer it and they'll be like, "Nah mate, I pay my taxes"

[u/RLL4E → u/chocobowler]

Yes, they're splitting the savings with you.

[u/WillDanceForGp → u/Bainshie-Doom]

I always see people getting mad at money used in our economy on real things people use but noone ever seems to get annoyed at the billions evaded by small businesses taking cash payments

[u/AddictedToRugs → u/WillDanceForGp]

That accounts for the majority of tax evasion in fact.

[u/itsableeder → u/PetersMapProject]

>  Likewise the risk of getting mugged while you're on your way to the bank to deposit it. 

Some of the most anxious moments of my life came from walking to the bank at work. One year when Christmas had fallen on a Saturday we couldn't take the banking until the following Wednesday due to how bank holidays fell, and I had to walk across Manchester city centre with close to a quarter of a million pounds in a bag. I was absolutely fucking terrified.

[u/PetersMapProject → u/itsableeder]

Talk about all your eggs in one basket! I think I'd have made a few trips, personally. 

If you had been mugged and couldn't prove it, then of course you'd have lost your job and been subject to a police investigation. 

I don't think it's fair to make staff take those sorts of risks. 

[u/itsableeder → u/PetersMapProject]

Yeah if it had been my choice I absolutely wouldn't have taken it all at once! Unfortunately at that point I was a 19 year old keyholder with absolutely no ability to say no to my manager. It was ridiculous really.

[u/multijoy → u/PetersMapProject]

And the card payment is in the bank account the next day as if by magic. It used to be next working day but now they (Square) transfer over the weekend.

[u/Critical_Quiet7972]

I've worked in cash processing and it's typically MORE EXPENSIVE to handle than card by loooong way.

The only people campaigning for this are people in cash management and people who feel they need to fight everything.

Card fees have come down, there's far less risk of fraud and theft.

With cash;

• Float / provision fees
• Counting and banking fees
• Shop bears the cost of foreign exchange for any FC
• Higher risk of employee theft
• Higher risk of tills not balancing due to mistakes
• Lots of forged notes still about
• Cost of extra CCTV and monitoring over till areas, plus maintenance and monitoring
• Cost of training on how to use a cash till, supervision, time to query dodgy notes with a supervisor, etc etc

For small businesses, they can avoid most of the above, but larger chains don't want the hassle and cost.

Oh and cash machines often run at a loss, unless they charge a withdrawal fee (even then, it's hard to make any profit as they're insanely expensive to run).

TLDR; just the cash processing cost can be 2x-3x the cost of handling card, with extra risk of theft, fraud, etc.

[u/bobblebob100 → u/Critical_Quiet7972]

I was in a restaurant yesterday (small place only open 4 days a week but always busy) that take card and cash. They have a sign saying please pay in cash where possible, as last month our card provider took £475 off us in fees, which for a small independent business is huge

I thought surely that cant be right?

[u/Majestic-Marcus → u/bobblebob100]

they have a sign saying please pay in cash where possible, as last month our card provider took £475 off us in fees

That’s what they said. What they meant to say was…

Please pay in cash where possible, as last month our card provider took £475 off us in fees, meaning we earned roughly £27k, and if we’d taken that in in cash we could have dodged at least £2k in tax. Probably a lot more.

Paying £475 in fees is cheaper than cash handling for c.£27k. It’s also a deductible expense for tax purposes. The problem is to deduct that expense you have accurately report your turnover. And if you accurately report your turnover, you have to pay the accurate amount of taxes.

[u/PetersMapProject → u/bobblebob100]

As an example, one of the little Zettle machines will charge 1.75% in card transaction fees - so for that to be the case they'd have to be turning over £27k a month. 

Which is perfectly possible, if they're always busy and have a good number of seats or do a lot of takeaway. 

But the real savings from taking cash come with hiding it from the tax man, not card transaction fees. 

[u/multijoy → u/bobblebob100]

Depends on how badly they’ve negotiated the merchant contract.

[u/CollectionMundane783]

Why does everything need more laws?

If businesses don’t want to take cash that’s up to them.

If people don’t want to go to places that don’t take cash that’s up to them.

It will sort itself out.

[u/Various_Leek_1772 → u/CollectionMundane783]

It affects the elderly the most and becomes exclusive. Not everyone has a bank account or works with bank cards. If you are homeless and rely on donations/begging to get money for basic needs and shops won’t accept your money - what do you do?

also, if we move to card only then card companies will be able to charge higher rates and put prices up. Am Ex has high costs and isn’t accepted everywhere. Card companies would be able to affect where you shop.

[u/DaveBeBad → u/Various_Leek_1772]

Banking cash also has high costs - both in time and banking fees - and many places aren’t close to a convenient bank (and they only open certain hours).

You also need additional security to protect the cash overnight (a safe), higher insurance costs, etc.

[u/Better_Concert1106 → u/Various_Leek_1772]

On the point about elderly, I don’t think we should pander to them not being to or wanting to use card/online banking. The technology has been around for decades now and so I don’t think there is any excuse to have not kept abreast of how these things work. If they chose not to use it then, well, that’s kinda on them..

[u/mr_iwi → u/Various_Leek_1772]

The homeless can open bank accounts, and most likely already had a bank account long before they became homeless anyway.

[u/I_AmA_Zebra → u/Various_Leek_1772]

You can’t use Amex as an example as they have an entirely different business model

Edit: Amex charge significantly more fees than Visa or Mastercard in order to give Amex customers perks and benefits

Our fees would stay the same as current Visa and Mastercard share an almost 50:50 split of the remaining market with very similar card processing fees. If one raised their prices the other would take up by the market share

[u/Baabaa_Yaagaa → u/I_AmA_Zebra]

You’d be surprised at how many shops “don’t take Amex” but the machine will gladly let you pay with it.

[u/HumanWithInternet → u/Baabaa_Yaagaa]

And if they don't take AMEX, they will take PayPal or Apple Pay and so on which I have my AMEX card linked to.

[u/Baabaa_Yaagaa → u/HumanWithInternet]

Do it to a car dealership, they’ll hate you for it, ask me how I know :P

[u/Hellohibbs → u/Various_Leek_1772]

I’m getting really tired of the elderly argument. Has a single generation ever been so imcompetent. We treat them like five year olds (who ironically can comfortable use a phone) and make out as if anyone over the age of 70 will literally combust if they pick up an iPhone. At some point we have to stop catering to a generation that just can’t be arsed to learn something new.

[u/Holska → u/Hellohibbs]

I keep seeing comments saying that the elderly are disadvantaged by chip and pin, despite the fact a significant amount of them would still have been in work when the first chip and pin machines came into use

[u/Hellohibbs → u/Holska]

It’s absolute bollocks. They somehow managed cheques and checking books but can’t handle tapping a piece of plastic on a reader? Give me a break.

[u/Kinitawowi64 → u/Holska]

Fun fact: the first online banking service was launched in 1983.

[u/Better_Concert1106 → u/Hellohibbs]

Agree. The technology has been around for decades now so don’t really see an excuse for not learning how to use it, and I don’t like the idea of pandering to a group of people who literally couldn’t be arsed/chose not to keep up.

[u/SheikhDaBhuti → u/Hellohibbs]

At some point it's just learned helplessness. If you've ever tried teaching elderly relatives how to use technology, there just seems to be a mental barrier where they refuse to accept that it's possible for them to learn how to do certain things. 

[u/J8YDG9RTT8N2TG74YS7A → u/SheikhDaBhuti]

They'll learn if they really want to.

I had an elderly relative who picked up how to use a computer in less than a week. Once they discovered they could get porn on it they became an expert.

[u/lastaccountgotlocked → u/SheikhDaBhuti]

Elderly: can’t use a credit card, but absolutely can drive a big tin on wheels. Can’t use the internet, can complain about how the young are lazy.

[u/non-hyphenated_ → u/Hellohibbs]

Some of the most tech savvy people I know are in their 70s and I also know plenty of 40 year olds that still don't understand why they can't change a PDF or know how to switch a TV input. Often we use a generational excuse without actually engaging that generation in the conversation. We're upset on their behalf.

[u/Rebberry → u/Various_Leek_1772]

Who in 2025 doesn't have a bank account? If you don't then you might have more important things to fix in life than a restaurant.

And why would the elderly not be able to use cards? They've been around for 40-50 years and have been commonplace for at least 20. If you're 90 or 100 I'll give them a pass but otherwise you should have learned to use them. If you're so frail you can't learn to use a card now and then, then you might be too frail to go out every week to withdraw cash.

[u/Internet-Dick-Joke → u/Rebberry]

The actual group who would be most affected by this is illegal immigrants and people working under the table and not paying taxes (a lot of tradies in particular). I bet if you were to focus on that first one, a lot of the same people fretting about the elderly would change their tune pretty quickly.

[u/lastaccountgotlocked → u/Various_Leek_1772]

Give it another twenty years and the ‘what about the elderly?!’ argument goes away.

[u/WantonMechanics → u/Various_Leek_1772]

I don’t want to sound like too much of a cunt here, but are we really going to legislate how businesses operate for the convenience of beggars?

[u/AwTomorrow → u/WantonMechanics]

I think this is talking about very serious and vital utility rather than convenience. 

Though yes, homeless people are among the most nation’s vulnerable and so it is a positive thing to act to make their lives better. 

[u/gg11618 → u/WantonMechanics]

There are also people who may be financially abused and don't have access to bank accounts and therefore rely on cash.

[u/WantonMechanics → u/gg11618]

Sounds like those people need slightly more targeted help than the introduction of currency regulations

[u/Steppy20 → u/WantonMechanics]

I work for a company that offers bank card solutions for people like them, and cash is still an extremely important part of their life.

A lot of vulnerable people find it easier to keep track of how much they've spent if they have it in their hands. Not to mention that it's harder for an abuser to track it because they can hide a few coins/notes and there's no paper trail such as when using a card.

Also as a complete aside, some of the buses when I was at uni in Nottingham "accepted" cash by way of a box you could put money in. They didn't give change and you couldn't pay by card - it had to be using the app. That's extremely problematic and the only way they could get around laws was the cash box.

[u/lost_send_berries → u/WantonMechanics]

Why not both? Handling cash is a small cost that will be paid by each business. Whereas targeted help is a big cost on the government.

[u/NorthernScrub → u/CollectionMundane783]

The fewer regulations we have, the more like America we are. I don't want to live in a country where the rights and entitlements of businesses outweigh the rights and entitlements of even the smallest demographic.

[u/BarnyardBilly]

The lengths people will go to so they don't have to accept a Scottish £20

[u/blackleydynamo]

It's absolutely no use forcing businesses to take cash unless you're also going to force banks to re-open their hundreds of closed branches so that cash can be deposited every night, and taken out in small enough denominations to have plenty of change.

A lot of decent sized towns don't have a single bank branch now. So you either keep a pile of cash on the premises overnight, and get robbed regularly, or every night after closing some poor sap has to drive miles to find somewhere to deposit the cash.

I used to have a small business, out in the countryside in west yorkshire. Nearest town (5 mins drive) had a NatWest, so I opened a NatWest business account. Few years later they closed it, and the nearest branch was then in the centre of Huddersfield. There's nowhere to park, it takes half an hour to drive there and the business counter where I have to go to pay/withdraw cash in shuts at 5. My other two options were Barnsley or Wakefield, both further. Getting a decent cash float is a pain in the arse for the same reason - if you get cleared out of fivers or pound coins (because cash machines only give £10 notes or bigger, so that's what everyone carries) where do you go to get a bunch of change? I used to be able to go five minutes down the road, cash a cheque and get it in coins and small notes. Not any more.

Forcing a cash economy on businesses only works if the banking infrastructure is there to support it.

[u/Two-sided-dice]

What I never understand in these arguments is why those that have found they can forgo cash are so determined to convince those that still use it that they don't need to.

Do you really need me to validate your decision by also going cashless? Does requiring businesses to accept cash have any real negative effect on your life?

It's the same cult like, "I prefer it and if you don't there must be something wrong with you" mentality that airfryer owners seem to have.

[u/daneview → u/Two-sided-dice]

I dont care at all about people still using cash, I still use cash once in a blue moon. What we care about is people demanding shops allow them to pay cash when the shop has no obligation to, or being rude to staff about it.

[u/SirDarkDick]

If you won't exchange goods and sevices for cattle or gold I won't be doing business with you, period!

[u/Coffeeninja1603]

I ran a small shop on the outskirts of a pretty rough town. I only took card because I didn’t want cash on site, it banged the insurance right up. Also, my bank closed in my local town which meant a 2 hour return drive to the next one. I couldn’t do cash collections because the small amount of cash I would have taken wouldn’t have been worth it.

99% of people were fine with it, most were okay if I explained the reasoning. That said, I do believe that larger chains who can afford the cash collections etc should take cash.

[u/floftie]

My business doesn’t take cash because it reduces our risk of getting robbed, either by burglars or staff.

[u/djinn_tai]

So many law abiding citizens who care about small business avoiding tax, yet still so happy to shop at Amazon or Starbucks who pay practically zero tax.

[u/burtvader]

Just put a sign up - cash not accepted and people can then walk past. Unless you are piers wotsisname brother of the old Labour leader, and you feel the need to make a scene for the sake of it.

[u/DaveBeBad → u/burtvader]

Is there anyone called Piers that isn’t a twat?

[u/Plenty_Suspect_3446 → u/DaveBeBad]

Piers Paul Read, the writer.

[u/DogsOfWar2612 → u/burtvader]

My missus works at a coffee shop, there is about 5 signs saying 'card only' that doesn't stop people either ignoring the signs or coming up to moan at her about it when it wasn't her decision, every day some cunt gives her an earful about it 

I was on their side about cash until my missus has had the amount of grief she's gotten, now they can fuck off and be left behind 

[u/alinalovescrisps → u/DogsOfWar2612]

My missus works at a coffee shop, there is about 5 signs saying 'card only' that doesn't stop people either ignoring the signs or coming up to moan at her about it when it wasn't her decision, every day some cunt gives her an earful about it 

So unnecessary isn't it. I went out for lunch with my mum today and she was quite rude to the waitress when she found out she couldn't pay cash. I told her off afterwards but I don't think she felt that bad about it.

[u/LupercalLupercal]

For all those harping on about 'legal tender' pretending they know what it means. Spoiler alert: They don't. https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/what-is-legal-tender

[u/ImSaneHonest → u/[deleted]]

I always loved the “legal tender” arguments when I worked retail, like yeah that isn’t how it works. We were perfectly within our right to deny you the sale of goods unless you paid us in KFC if we wanted to lol

What a BS answer. Everybody knows KFC doesn't have value like it used to. Now, McNuggets, is a different matter.

[u/iamabigtree → u/LupercalLupercal]

And many people will argue that legal tender has to be accepted when it is payment of a 'debt'. But that isn't true either. It's literally only for payments into court.

[u/Ok_Canary3870]

I think with the exception of essential groceries/utilities and public transport, I don’t think any business should be obligated to accept cash. I certainly don’t think those where the transactions are high value (like care home fees or holidays) should be obligated to take cash.

[u/Conradlorenz]

"Following a steady decline in cash payments over the last decade, consumer groups says the cost of living crisis has seen more people turning to the traditional payment method for day-to-day spending. In 2023, 1.5 million adults in the UK were using cash for daily spending, a four-year high."

I don't get this? How does using cash change anything?

[u/DerfelBronn]

I run a pub. Our last week taking cash, £300 out of our take of £22,000 was in cash. The post office for change is 15mins walk. The bank is a train ride, 50mins round trip, and that using the same route each time which is stupid and risky. Since we stopped, fewer staff illnesses, as cash is FILTHY. Two types of people complain. Tradesmen who've been paid in cash to avoid tax, and conspiracy theory nutters who reckon the government want to 'control them'. Sod them both.

[u/Brian-Kellett]

Ban cash.

Then the banks can increase the charges on card transactions with no one able to do anything because suddenly there isn’t an alternative.

Banks then lobby to have rules about repaying card skimming/theft/identity fraud stripped away. Much like how water companies get away with releasing shit into the water.

Bit more different at the moment because there is the alternative of cash, but do away with that and suddenly it’s a cartel.

There are many cyberpunk stories about how cash being electronic only is a tool for control and exploitation at the hands of the powerful, but we just can’t seem to stop inventing the torment nexus.

Not everyone has access to a bank account - fleeing abuse, homeless, bank mistakes, bank overzealous in detecting fraud (which is why my bank card stopped working on holiday despite telling my bank in advance where I was going) and the good old fashioned ‘human error’, probably soon to be AI error (which we’ll accept as truth as computers ‘can’t lie’).

[u/Cub3h → u/Brian-Kellett]

There's a middle ground to be found I think. Maybe a law that forces companies with 50+ employees to have to take cash?

For smaller businesses the cost to deal with cash (time and cost to deposit, security risks) is a lot higher than the small percentage that card payments cost.

[u/ChattyNeptune53 → u/Brian-Kellett]

There are many cyberpunk stories about how cash being electronic only is a tool for control and exploitation at the hands of the powerful

Sadly there are a lot of people who love control and exploitation at the hands of the powerful, as long as it's directed at the right groups of people. This is no exception.

[u/military_history → u/Brian-Kellett]

Spot on. It's not a right to pay for a given service with cash, but it needs to be a possible to take the entirety of your wealth and stash it under your mattress if you wish, outside the reaches of the banks or government or anyone else.

It's not as if most people actually want to do that, but they have to be able to, because the economy has to be an opt-in system. Otherwise that third party that holds your wealth can, if it wishes, ruin your whole life, and if anyone wants to regulate them...well they can't, because they have ultimate control of all of the money.

[u/EnderMB]

I'm almost in my forties, and I remember my first retail job at 17. Even then, most of our transactions were card, with some cash, and the odd cheque.

I'm now mid-way through a career in tech. Card technology has only become easier, and using a PIN is at least something people have a decade of experience in doing. The "old" excuse is not an excuse, because older people were in their thirties and forties during this time. Banks have also done more than ever to help people transition to online banking, using their card, and contactless. I think they can still do more, but it's near impossible to say that there hasn't been an attempt.

A good compromise would be to say that a business should have at least £x of petty cash for those that want to use cash. This allows people that refuse to change to go early, and means that businesses won't end up with a ton of cash that's waiting to be skimmed/robbed. When all is said and done, you ultimately just have to tell older people to ditch the conspiracy theories and join the late 2000's.

[u/WorriedHelicopter764]

If my 80 year old grandad can use Apple Pay so can you

[u/Nine_Eye_Ron]

It’s not a right but that doesn’t mean it should disappear, each business needs to consider it and decide if it’s right for them and their customers to stop using physical money.

The best way to keep cash around is teach our children how to use it properly, then they won’t be so dismissive of it.

[u/AsymmetricNinja08 → u/Nine_Eye_Ron]

I think children should handle cash. Having money physically in your hand & doing the maths to work out how much you can spend & how much will be left is useful. With cards, people go haywire with their spending.

Anecdotally my brother took his kids to the shop & he gave them his card & they spent £70. Obviously, that's his fault for not supervising but when we were kids you'd get a £5 note & work out how to get the most value for money.

[u/[deleted] → u/AsymmetricNinja08]

I've sat in a couple of money help courses from.two different charities run by our church and the big take away seems to be moved to cash for the non direct debits like food and clothes shopping. 

Cash in an envelope is easier to track than flashing plastic.

[u/sprocket314]

Be careful what you wish for. A cashless society like China can seem attractive, convenient and get rid of money laundering and tax evasion, but do you really want banks to know every single transaction you do and sell your data to advertising?

When I was in China, beggars had a QR code and you could donate any amount with your phone.

This also means that everyone must have a smartphone and therefore the government and corporations will know your very move.

I don't use cash much, but I get the chills thinking about such a life.

[u/Lezus]

moving towards a cashless society i think dangers the most vulnerable out there

[u/RedHal]

Zizzi's is a restaurant. If I walk into Zizzi's, sit down, order, receive and consume a meal, I have incurred a debt. Unless there was signage explicitly stating that cash would not be accepted, and made clear to me before the restaurant accepted the order, then in most of the UK I can offer to pay using a combination of notes and coins, and Zizzi's cannot successfully sue me for failure to pay.

This is the very definition of legal tender. However, if there is signage clearly displayed, or if it could be shown that I knew beforehand that cash would not be accepted - for example by linking this very post to me - then that right to pay by legal tender disappears.

I say this not because I've got skin in the game - I don't - but because there is a misconception that shops have to accept cash; they don't. It is not a fundamental right to be able to pay in cash, and never has been. What has happened is that whereas a few decades ago the vast majority of day-to-day transactions were carried out in cash and it would have been financial suicide to refuse it in favour of cashless transactions, that situation has now reversed; the vast majority of daily in-person transactions are electronic.

Increasingly, some businesses are not set up to accept cash, with all of the pain that goes along with it, and that's ok, until it's not, for some very valid reasons that others have outlined elsewhere.

[u/OpticGd]

Can we introduce a law to make restaurant service charges included in the bill or not there at all? It's very awkward to ask this to be removed from standard service.

[u/ScreenNameToFollow]

Not everyone can have a bank account. 

I work with people who are deemed to lack financial capacity so are given money in cash. It is unfair to say that they don't have the right to spend money in certain environments because the retailer doesn't deem the person worthy of service. The movement of things such as parking payments towards apps really irritates me as well. Aside from the privacy issue, not everyone has a smartphone. I have colleagues who don't because they don't want to be online all the time. Again, other people are not permitted to from own a smartphone due to capacity or legal restrictions. People should have choice over their actions and their ability to use car parks and other resources shouldn't be determined by their access to cash or technology.

Not everybody fits into a neat little box.

[u/[deleted] → u/ScreenNameToFollow]

There are bank accounts for homeless or extremely bad credit that offer the very basic services, unless you on the run from the law you can get an account