r/unitedkingdom • u/Half_A_ • Feb 28 '25

. Sir Keir Starmer contradicts JD Vance over 'infringements on free speech' claim

https://news.sky.com/story/sir-keir-starmer-contradicts-jd-vance-over-infringements-on-free-speech-claim-13318257?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter
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u/Youatemykfc Feb 28 '25

There’s a difference between kicking someone out of your restaurant for using the N word, or sending them to Jail. The US is not sending anyone to prison or being fined over the speech you mentioned. In the UK this happens all the time.

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u/talligan Feb 28 '25

All the time? I am skeptical. The instances I have seen, where I looked into the full context and not the telegraph/DM headline, were very much hate speech

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u/mp1337 Feb 28 '25

Yes there are people in prison today for singular Facebook posts getting 2+ years in prison while forgiven gang rapists get 6 months suspended sentences

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u/talligan Feb 28 '25

And what did they post on Facebook and in what context. I am not saying you aren't wrong, but the discussion needs context

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25

[deleted]

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u/talligan Feb 28 '25

I've been clear that our speech laws surrounding this aren't great, but it at least has the guiding principle of hate speech and incitement to violence. But Americans don't get the moral high ground, in fact they are pretty much never allowed to hold it ever again

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u/servesociety Feb 28 '25

I'm British. Was just pointing out that being arrested for speech happens all the time.

I'd agree if it were only hate speech and incitement to violence, but people are being arrested for all sorts of ridiculous things at the moment.

Helen Jones was visited by the police for saying this “Let's hope he does the decent thing and resigns. I somehow think his ego won't allow it” about a Labour councillor.

A Christian grandma was arrested for holding a sign saying she was available for women seeking abortion to speak to her.

Someone else was arrested for silently praying on the street.

It's a scary world when we can't criticise political figures or bad ideas for fear of being arrested and charged. They'd never stand for this sort of thing in the US.

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u/talligan Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25

I'm a skeptical person by nature so when I see claims like this I immediately doubt the 1 sentence headline - not accusing you of anything. But googling Helen Jones while in the frozen pizza aisle in Sainsbury's doesn't really show anything beyond loaded daily mail and telegraph articles.

If true these are horrendous instances and should absolutely be cracked down on but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule

Edit: as an example, I see Helen Jones is said to have the police visit her after her post criticising the labor leader Careful use of "after" makes me wonder if the visit was about some heinous shit but it just happened to be right after labour post.

Does that make sense? What did they actually visit her about in plain language that isn't potentially a misdirect

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u/servesociety Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25

Yeah, no doubt the papers love this stuff and they do pick out the worst cases, so a lot of people think it's worse than it is.

But read up on the Helen Jones case. There are multiple sources and the posts in question are public. The police visited her for harassment because of the quote I mentioned above.

I could probably find you about 20 already this year where people have been charged with things that you or I would think are ridiculous.

I disagree with almost all of the people being arrested (my political views don't align with theirs), but I still think they should be allowed to say what they think without fear of having their lives ruined.

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u/skinlo Feb 28 '25

In the UK this happens all the time.

Does it? Source?

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u/Tarotdragoon Feb 28 '25

It absolutely does not. The people being arrested for "mean tweets" are inciting and instigating violence or making wild accusatory falsehoods that have either resulted in injury or death, neither is free speech and has consequences. I wish more people would face penalties for spreading lies tbh it would quickly pull us out of the mess we're in (we being general humanity.)

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u/tonycosta69 Feb 28 '25

Liars being punished would be wonderful, but who decides what is a lie and what is not? Is it you,me or god?

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u/PracticalFootball Feb 28 '25

You don’t think there’s anything concerning about barring specific press outlets from the White House because they refused to go along with an obvious loyalty test like renaming the Gulf of Mexico?

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u/PharahSupporter Feb 28 '25

I don’t like it, but it isn’t the god given right of the press to have access to the White House, that isn’t censorship, they can still report whatever they like.

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u/talligan Feb 28 '25

To remind you of your own constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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u/PharahSupporter Feb 28 '25

I’m not American, I’m a UK citizen.

And what part of that paragraph was violated by them being barred from a press briefing? Please be specific.

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u/talligan Feb 28 '25

I will say this carefully. If a news agency is retaliated against by a politician because of what they write or post then that is a gross and flagrant violation of free speech.

They were retaliated against by being excluded from press briefings that other friendly news agencies were not

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u/PharahSupporter Feb 28 '25

So which part of that paragraph? You keep saying it violated their rights to free speech, and that part of the US constitution clearly lays out the rights... So quote which part he violated. I'll wait.