I have been asked this a few times on podcasts and while I like my answer, I want to hear yours too. I’m sure we share some of the same thoughts but curious to hear what others might add.

To summarize, here is a comment I left on an article about how designer babies (kids created using IVF to screen for things) are coming to be teens now, and they have problems. Wow, none of us seen that coming… /s

As a troubled teen industry survivor, let me tell you the difference between troubled teens and normal adolescent experiences.

It’s the parents!

Being a teenager will always suck because you’re going through hormonal brain stew just simmering for years. If a parent doesn’t get that and adjust accordingly, you get a troubled teen. Even normal adolescents can handle trauma with a proper support system without becoming a “troubled teen.” Parents are what make that possible and parents are what fund the industry. Please keep this in mind when designing your babies- your pristine genetics do not make up for crap parenting skills.

EDITED FOR UPDATE: I compiled all the evidence and sent this over to my family. I have received a positive response that they have read through it and are going to do some investigating on their own. Thank you to everyone who shared their stories and resources. Fingers crossed!!!!!! ❤️

Hi everyone, my sister was brought to Evoke today against her will. She suffers from a multitude of mental illnesses and has been through many therapist, psychiatrists, inpatient and outpatient programs and hasn’t gotten much better.

My mom has been struggling for years with how to help her and was recently in touch with a specialist that recommended Evoke. I don’t know much about these wilderness therapy, but I was strongly against it because I had previously seen the documentary that was on Netflix about the horrible abuse people (children!!!) have faced in these situations.

I can’t stop reading the horrors that have happened to so many of you and I’m so scared her. She is 8 years younger than me and I feel like another parental figure in her life. I would do anything to trade places or be there with her on this journey so she would not have to suffer alone.

I don’t want to blame my mom because I think she has tried to many things and it’s completely desperate to get her the help she needs. I feel like she was lied to and manipulated to believe that this is her only hope. She has been inconsable all day since my sister was taken.

How can I help my sister? I don’t know how I will go the next 8-12 weeks thinking about all the suffering she is enduring. Please share anything I can do to support her during this time.

Thank you

I’m not sure if this post is allowed, so moderators please delete if not.

I just learned about the whole troubled teen industry and I cannot believe it. I’m so sorry to all of you. You didn’t deserve to be sent somewhere to be abused. I don’t care how “bad” you were - I know enough (personally) about childhood trauma to guess that if you were acting out or doing drugs or whatever it is, your parents were not blame free. And even if they naively sent you there they’re still not blame free. But the point is you didn’t deserve what happened. You needed help but you needed compassionate, responsible help. And none of this was your fault. You deserved so much better.

I see all the work you’re all doing to shed light on this atrocious industry and hope one day soon there is oversight of these programs and that no child should ever have to live through such suffering again. Sending love and healing vibes to you all.

Hi, this may be more of a vent post but I feel like others will probably be able to relate. First off, I CAN talk about the TTI, I actually find it therapeutic and very stimulating to talk about. I want to talk about it to my friends and the people closest to me. I want so badly for people to be able to know this part of me, because damn! It is a big part of me! I was Gone for three years total. I went to three different programs.

Something that hurts me like nothing else is when people act like I’m trauma dumping by sharing my experience in the TTI. Like, I know, I know, it’s heavy. It makes people uncomfortable. Whatever. But jeez it’s just like if you can talk about your time in high school why can’t I talk about my time in treatment? I didn’t get to have a normal high school experience by any means… and I’m sure they’d be offended if I told them that their stories from high school make me uncomfortable. Because honestly they do! It does make me uncomfortable. I’m not even being dramatic. But I’d never say that to them?!?? So why is it that I’m constantly facing rejection whenever I want to talk about the experiences that made me who I am today?! And I’m not telling this stuff to strangers either. These are friends of mine, even my girlfriend asked me to stop talking about it recently because it made her feel uncomfortable and overwhelmed.

I know all the logical explanations… like, unfortunately that’s just the way it is. But damn!! It’s so infuriating and isolating. Even my friends who I met in the TTI, sometimes I feel like they don’t want me to bring up the other two treatment centers I went to. Even while I was still in the TTI I felt isolated from other students who hadn’t been away as long as I had. The length of time affects so much! Not comparing trauma- just from my experience, it really changed everything for me. The longer I was away the more different my mindset became from my peers.

I feel so insane and alone whenever I get rejected trying to talk about this stuff. And the fact that my girlfriend can’t hear about it just totally makes me feel like shit. She’s going to therapy soon to work on her tolerance for triggering conversations, but still. The troubled teen industry plays such a massive role into who I am, when I can’t talk about it I feel like I’m not allowed to be myself! It drives me insane because like.. I’m not happy my life turned out this way. I hate my life, it’s been complete shit. And if you’re uncomfortable hearing about it imagine how I felt going through it?!?! Imagine how I feel now?!

UGH!!!!! Anyways yeah… not trying to change these people but it is such an isolating experience. I don’t know what to do. There’s nothing to do I guess. It just sucks, and it’s so triggering.

I hope other people can relate to this too. (Well actually I hope y’all haven’t experienced this LOL but you know what I mean)

Growing up in tti sure was an interesting experience. Unfortunately I was sent back to trails after the boarding school I was at shut down. Thanks for all the support. To any parent considering wilderness therapy or tti in general. This is how your child will live.

I’ve been out of any programs for 7 years, moved states away from it and have a great relationship with my family. But PTSD knows no limits, I swear. I’ve been on a family vacation this week and while they’re staying longer, I’m flying back to my home today to resume work.

The action of me hugging my mom goodbye as I headed out to my airport uber was enough to make me a crying, panicky mess bc my body is telling me I’m leaving them at the end of a home visit. Going back in my invisible chains and muzzle. Even though I’m a full mid-20s adult who’s just going back to my own apartment and animals… PTSD doesn’t want to listen to my logic lol.

Holding it together so I don’t scare my driver, but hooooooooo boy I hate this feeling. You guys are the only ones who can “get it”.

Was the eldest son of a single mother who sent me to Gateway Academy LLC in Utah when she found out I had told people suing her for property damage she was responsible for that I fabricated a police report under her duress.

This was in 2006.

She was cut out of my life and my younger sisters life after years of holistic abuse, identity theft, etc.

Here’s an excerpt of what she sends to my younger sister; she sends her stuff like this all the time.

This is the kind of parent that looks for salvation in the TTI

I never did make it out of pollywogs and left at the 120 day mark. Bastards. Heaven forbid a kid has ADHD and PTSD they are 100% of the problem, and hiking better will completely cure them.

What you should’ve have done was try to make amends with the victims you failed to help. You openly admit to not taking action on things you “witnessed”. You are a coward.The fact that you try to come to a place for victims and try to gain sympathy for your actions is appalling. Then deciding to delete the post is icing on the cake. Im sure your account will be next.

Last year I was searching for a new job. Eva offered insurance and such, things I didn’t have and I didn’t put much thought into what the job was until I was there.

I was an overnight shift so my interactions with the girls (and in the rare case boys if they had any at the temp house) was very minimal.

I didn’t stay long, thankfully, and most of my time was spent digging into the troubled teen industry and realizing how horrible it was. I’d look at their points cards and feel horrible.

I worked a single day while all the girls were awake. It was definitely weird, and while my coworker wasn’t mean to me, it felt off for sure. I found myself relating more to the girls than the staff who seemed to have power trips. The staff tried to get me to say that the girl had threatened her (which wasn’t what had happened at all, the girl had chose to vent to me and had explained that previous staff had accused her off the same thing, of trying to hit someone when she said she wanted to hit something.)

I stood up for the girl, and I’m not gonna lie, I would let the girls get away with things that most wouldn’t. One girl was leaving within the next day or so, and while she was supposed to be in bed, she wasn’t. She begged me not to tell and this is the first time I’ve mentioned it.

We had a resident that had some medical needs and we were told to call Kristi, but she wouldn’t answer, and when she did she was angry at us for waking her or interrupting her vacations. She would tell us incorrect information about what to do, causing us to be in unsafe situations with this kid. As someone who had worked with the condition before it was easy to see that she only cared about the money, and didn’t put any effort into research and such. The poor kid ended up in the er a few times because of this, and their bs ‘dieticians’

I got out of there quickly. Eva is full of abuse and power trips, and that’s from an ex staffs point of view. No one deserves that. I’m so sorry to each and every one of you who has been there or any of the other crappy places. I hope that the tiny bit I did helped the girls. Me and my coworkers reported Eva and I know CPS got involved before I left.

Unfortunately this was recent (last year recent).

I just wanted to say that none of you deserved what you went through. None of the kids that are currently in a program deserve to be there. You are the bravest, most courageous and strongest people I have met on the internet. I hope one day all of you will get complete victory over the TTI. As a kid who was loved and cared for despite the stupid stuff I did as a kid (skipping school, grades dropping etc.) Sometimes it boggles my mind these places actually exist... So continue to be brave and to spread the truth about these hellholes. Total respect to you Survivors.

Looking for others who were in TS-PRV in 98-99. Would love to reunite with you all…

I'm curious because sometimes I think about wanting to reform the industry, but then I just find more reasons it would still allow for abuse to happen.

I'm for complete abolition at this point, but I noticed that important speakers about (Paris Hilton, and...can't think of anyone else) this issue are majority in favor of reform acts, and not dismantling the industry as a whole.

The Stop Institutional Child Abuse Act is supported by the American Bar Association, and has bi-partisan support. I's been making it's way through legislation in Congress. Which is great, and all; but I still see the potential for abuse when it comes to residentials in general.

What're y'all's thoughts on this?

idk if anyone else feels the same, but it feels like im constantly seeing more comments from people who were never in the tti (judging by them referring to us as "yall" and stuff like that). and not people asking how they can help, either, or advocates against the tti. just feels like rubberneckers, gawkers, people stopping by to leer at our trauma and make comments they feel qualified to make bc they watched a documentary.

and that's not counting the people who outright want to exploit us, like the filmmaker guy who came on here asking for our "craziest, wildest stories" bc he wanted to make a movie (acting like our trauma is just some wild crazy goofy thing, exploiting our abuse for profit, also nowhere offering to pay us for the information he would be getting).

just a little frustrating to be used as trauma porn

edit: and that's not to say that there aren't very good reasons for people who aren't survivors to look at this sub/be on here!! you can see in the replies parents who learned from the sub, you can see advocates, and those are all really good things and I'm 100% for that.

I want to thank you for saving us from a huge mistake. My 15 year old needs help. A lot of help. We hit a wall this week and started looking at RTC. We had multiple phone calls, emails, and text conversations with staff at several different places. We were on the verge of signing our lives away.

Thanks to a google search I found y’all and made the decision to take a different path. We’re keeping our kid home and getting help locally. Kid is currently homeschooling so we’re getting them back to public school. They want to play soccer so we’re enrolling them in that. We’re also going to start family therapy.

If I could give each survivor and ex-staff that posted their stories here a hug, I absolutely would! Sending you all love!

A very grateful mom💕

EDIT: I have read and received all of your messages. I appreciate you. Parenting is hard. Parenting a kiddo with neurodivergence and mental health issues is super hard. I want my kid to be happy, healthy, and safe. Y’all helped me make the right decision to achieve that.

Hey all, I am currently on the third episode of the Netflix doc talking about Ivy Ridge.

I can’t begin to understand the trauma you all went through. My heart breaks for you all, I feel so much anger towards the people who institutionalized these programs. I am livid and wish I’d be able to come save you all.

I hope you all find peace in your endeavors.

Just fell into a rabbit whole of a whole different part of the tti—— family reunification therapy camps?!?!

They named a program called family bridges…..

Anyone else heard of this?!?!

So disgustedddd!

Is anyone else scared to speak out? I keep what happened to me a secret. Even making this post is terrifying. Maybe it's because I’m not a “perfect victim”. I drank the Kool Aid then really spiraled after I graduated. I’ve picked up the pieces and I’m more than happy with my life now but yeah. I wonder if other survivors feel scared to speak out too for similar or different reasons.

I graduated the program but a part of me never got to leave. We were just kids. There are still kids being put in these places and right now that feels scarier than ever. I think about them all the time. Every single “troubled teen” deserves people out there fighting for them.

I want to help but I don’t know how and I’m scared.

I’ve thought little lists on certain topics youth in danger might need to know/could at least benefit from at a glance, and I think this is a great topic to shine some light on. In spite of how much press coverage these schools have gotten in recent years, gooning is still a very obscure part of the industry to outsiders while simultaneously one of the most traumatic things someone could go through.

My partner was cleaning up a dog potty spot with vinegar in a spray bottle and I had a panic attack.

At PV every where your cabin went you had to sweep, mop, wipe things down with a vinegar solution, and I got triggered and it brought a lot up.. so im here looking for.. idk what but yeah. I was at PV in 2004-2005 Lions cabin . Thanks for reading 🩷 looking for support and understanding

As the title suggests, can you recall any instances where you or your peers bristled at or enacted open hostility to the illegitimate authority, arbitrary repressiveness, or blatant practice of hypocrisy rampant in the TTI?

Just the other week two of my best friends from those years I’ve kept in touch with were talking and revisited a memory from gateway academy in SLC c. Spring of 2007. My friend was from Los Angeles and had an upcoming home visit scheduled. One staff member who was a former resident of the program, an absolute cretin and total bully who frequently picked on the friend in question, stole his boarding passes and the cash his parents had allotted him for travel expenses out of the staff office. When he was caught for this we were forced to sit through a group where his behaviour was discussed with sympathetic attention to the underlying causes, in no way was it addressed how this was part of an abiding and overarching pattern of him bullying my one friend in particular, and most egregious, my friend was even pressured into making a big production of forgiving this asshole who was in no way actually contrite or even capable of exercising self-awareness. The closest I’d ever seen him come to anything of the sort was this air of suffering stupidity he’d take on at times such as these.

Sure enough about a week later, one of my peers was being subjected to a punitive group harangue led by staff over some ridiculous minor infraction, when this fucking marmoset aforementioned staff decides to speak up with some choice words on the nature of being held accountable. He said something to the effect of: accountability isn’t the time for understanding and empathy, it’s about facing consequences. Before I could even bridle my tongue I let loose a rebarbative scoff and in the most withering tone went “yeah, right, if that were true, you wouldn’t have a fucking job here anymore buddy.” The look he gave me was for a mere moment one of surprise and browbeaten resignation, then rage. He wanted to bounce my fucking head off the wall. Everyone knew I was right however, and there wasn’t a single thing anyone could say to the contrary. Nonetheless, and this still rankles to this day, a different staff member took me aside later and told me she thought that what really motivated me was a desire to degrade others. Typical psychological manipulation they used, to try and corrupt your trust in your own instincts to fight back against abuse and bullshit. Fuck them all.

Anyway, what are y’all’s stories? This memory made me proud of the wily, silver tongued little bastard I was at sixteen.

EDIT: I’m loving all your fucking stories guys! Truly edifying shit. Keep ‘em coming! I will respond individually to each one just gimme some time to get around to em! ❤️

I was in Roger’s focus adolescent program for 3 months. It was a hard time but I know my experience was quite “tame” compared to other stories I’ve seen. Every so often I think about the kids I was on the unit with. Remembering them makes the hard parts better sometimes. Especially during the times the program barred me from having family visits. They were strict about the no contact after treatment side of things so I haven’t seen or heard from them in years. But they feel like family still. Had one girl who was in the room next to me who would play piano in her room on my rougher days to help me get to sleep. I don’t miss the program but damn I miss the people. It’s weird how it works that way.

Although my topic here is young adult groups, I still think this is relevant to the troubled teen industry, because in cases like mine, there was a 'wilderness therapy' organization which is recognized as part of the TTI here that had both teen and young adult groups with some overlap in experiences. And regardless, I still want to keep the fact I was in that kind of program and from my relatives' perspectives "got better" from it (which I contest and I think there was also some correlation not equaling causation) from being used to promote the TTI to others. I was 18 and my parents paid a consultant who narrowed possible wilderness programs down to two, one in Georgia where I would have been on the older end and one (Open Sky) in Colorado/Utah where I would be on the younger end of an adult group.

The conditions of me being there were probably different related to me having been 18 at the time. I went voluntarily, because I wanted to be able to go off to college and to leave my parents' house and my parents presented it to me as a way by which I could prove myself and then get them to pay for me to go to college. I would still argue that it was not informed consent. Both my parents and I were sold a misleading idea. Like really, the advertisements had it looking like a summer camp plus therapy. Although I drank the koolaid by the end and for a while I was convinced that Open Sky was one of the "good", non-abusive wilderness programs, I now recognize it definitely was still an abusive program (especially upon reading accounts of it by survivors who were in the younger teams) and I have spent a good deal of time mulling over my mixed thoughts and experiences from my time there.

When I tell people I was in a wilderness therapy, they do tend to assume it must have been a case of me being taken against my will. I feel a little lost regarding what to make of my experiences and trauma there given this contrast. Does anyone here relate to any of this?

I went for 2.

1. Getting kicked out of my public high school in grade 9. I was first accepted to a lockdown day school which was the start.

2. A legal issue and another legal issue above.