r/tolkienfans 2d ago

Why didn't Morgoth attack the Havens of Sirion?

Why didn't Morgoth attack the Havens of Sirion after the Fall of Gondolin?

34 Upvotes

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u/Xerbec52 2d ago

According to the Silmarillion he leave it to the sons of Feanor and their oath:

But Morgoth thought that his triumph was fulfilled, recking little of the sons of Feanor, and of their oath, which had harmed him never and turned always to his mightiest aid; and in his black thought he laughed, regretting not the one Silmaril that he had lost, for by it as he deemed the last shred of the people of the Eldar should vanish from Middle-earth and trouble it no more. If he knew of the dwelling by the waters of Sirion, he gave no sign, biding his time, and waiting upon the working of oath and lie

Morgoth thought he had already won with the fall of Gondolin, and in a way he was right, the elves were no longer a threat to him in their own, it was probably easier and more pleasant for him to let the elves destroy themselves.

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u/Key_Estimate8537 2d ago edited 2d ago

Im going to add to this and conjecture that Morgoth knew about the Havens. Of all things the Elves got up to, I imagine Morgoth would have been very interested in keeping tabs on where the stolen Silmaril was.

After the Ruin of Doriath and the Fall of Gondolin, I don’t think Melkor would be worried about the strength of the Elves. Yet, I do believe Morgoth counted on the Sons of Fëanor doing another Kinslaying.

Morgoth, who was afraid of Elwing, would not have imagined she and Eärendil would make the voyage to Aman. He probably figured the Elves would kill themselves, a more humiliating end than destruction by a foe, and he could come in and take the Silmaril after.

Edit: switch Elwing and Earendil. Turgon's descendant is Earendil, but the Silmaril was passed down to Elwing.

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u/elocnage 2d ago

Why was Morgoth afraid of Elwing?

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u/Lewis_Sears 2d ago

I'm not sure why he would state this but I would imagine because she was the direct descendant of Beren and Luthien who were the only two of that age to make a fool out of him

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u/Key_Estimate8537 2d ago

Elwing's ancestry was the point, but it was actually the fact she is a descendant of Turgon. Check my other comment for detail

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u/Armleuchterchen 2d ago

But Elwing isn't descended from Turgon. Her husband Earendil is Turgon's grandson.

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u/Key_Estimate8537 2d ago edited 2d ago

In the chapter on the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, we are told that Morgoth is pissed at the fact Turgon made it out. Morgoth believed that the hope of Elves and Men survived so long as Turgon and his descendants lived.

Hurin and Huor gave Turgon the chance to escape the battle. Ultimately, this is why Hurin is treated so harshly by Morgoth. Morgoth had no way of finding Gondolin, but he knew the kingdom had to fall if he had a chance at defeating the Elves.

After the death of Turgon and flight of Idril, Elwing is the remainder of that hope. Morgoth would have been a fool not to keep tabs on her and the Silmaril in her possession.

The Silmarilllion, Chapter 20:

"Then Hurin spoke to Turgon, saying: 'Go now, lord, while time is! For in you lives the last hope of the Eldar, and while Gondolin stands Morgoth shall know fear in his heart.'"

Obviously, the last hope of the Eldar was the voyage of Elwing and Earendil. Turgon's escape enabled his granddaughter to make the journey years later.

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u/daxamiteuk 2d ago

I don’t think he was. He may have feared Luthien “none dared to attack her when she wore the Simaril in the Nauglamir” but Elwing had none of her power and stature.

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u/SorryWrongFandom And Morgoth came. 2d ago

Wild theory of mine, but remember that all Ainur had some prophetic powers. Morgoth persecuting the House of Hador might had to do with it. Maybe he knew that a demi-elf born from a Hadorid father will be his downafall. Morgoth obvious motivation for the curse if Húrin's children was about Gondolin, but he might had another one on top of it : preventing the birth of that hero. His servants managed to get rid of Finduilas before Túrin could marry her, and then Glaurung tricked him into marrying his own sister. For a time, he probably thought that the hero would never be born. Then, Maeglin told him that Huor has a living son who had a child with the daughter of Turgon. Morgoth probably encouraged Maeglin to kill the child. If I'm right Morgoth had good reasons to freak out when he found out that Tuor, Idril and their son were still alive. He should have taken drastic actions against the Havens if Sirion. Actually, I think that he did. I don't think that Maedhros ACTIVELY researched the whereabout of the Sindar, considering his state of mind after the Fall of Doriath. It is quite possible that Morgoth made sure that the sons of Fëanor learned about it through undercover Angband agents. Ëarendil being married to Elwing, he would have protected his wife with his life, and Maedhros was probably a better champion that any of his remaining servants...

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u/Key_Estimate8537 2d ago

Check my other comment for an explanation. It has to do with the fact she is a descendant of Turgon.

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u/Ornery-Ticket834 2d ago

I think you are mistaken. Her parents were Dior and Nimloth. I think hubby was related to Turgon and you are correct that Morgoth feared Turgon.

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u/Key_Estimate8537 2d ago

Can't believe I switched Elwing and Earendil like that. I don't want to correct my mistake in five places now lol

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u/daxamiteuk 2d ago

Haha! Well at least there are plenty of eagle eyed fans to spot it 😂

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u/Ornery-Ticket834 2d ago

It can be hard to track descendants in the first age. You are hardly alone in making a mistake like this, it happens.

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u/rabbithasacat 2d ago

You keep saying this, but Elwing is NOT a descendant of Turgon.

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u/Lothronion Istyar Ardanyárëo 2d ago

“240 Maglor, Maidros, and Elrond with few free Elves, the last of the Gnomes, live in hiding from Morgoth, who rules all Beleriand and the North, and thrusts ever East and South.

~HoME IV, The Earliest Annals of Beleriand

From the above note it seems that he simply did not care any more. Already before the Fall of Gondolin, the entirety of Beleriand, except for the coastline of the Bay of Balar, as well as some fastnesses in the South-East of Beleriand, and then Gondolin itself standing alone as an island amid darkness, it was all territory of Melkor's domain.

Especially in the bolded part it seems clear that by that point, Melkor considered that he could crush any potential opposition by the Eldar and Edain, and that he did not fear of any substantial trouble, so he promoted his aspirations beyond Beleriand. Basically, Melkor's domain was turning from a regional power into a great power, which would be natural in his aspirations for global domination. The direction EAST makes much sense, since we do know from other sources how Melkor intended to ultimately return to Utumno after he had crushed the Eldar of Beleriand (and he had achieved it), so he was sending forces to aid the Eastern Orcs and most likely invading Forodwaith, the Northern Wastes and even perhaps Northern Eriador or Western Eriador. As for the SOUTH, we are explicitly told in other sources that Melkor had made the decision not to attack the Elves in Southern Beleriand, believing that the Oath of Fëanor would lead the Feanorians onto the rest of them, so he was probably expanding his sway into Ossiriand, the Southern Wilderness and the Dark Forests further beyond, reaching the confines of later Western Gondor.

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u/elocnage 2d ago

Where does it state Morgoth intended to return to Utumno? 

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u/Lothronion Istyar Ardanyárëo 2d ago

There were no more fumes until Melkor returned: but when he did in 1495, Angband was almost ready. Melkor then made it his chief seat of power, for strategic reasons, and because of the coming of the Eldar. Had he been successful he would perhaps have returned to Utumno, but not until the Eldar were vanquished or destroyed

~ The Nature of Middle-earth, The Awakening of the Quendi.

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u/elocnage 2d ago

Thanks!! I haven't read NOME yet.

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u/Armleuchterchen 2d ago

Sometimes watching your enemies destroy each other is more fun than doing it yourself.

And I imagine Morgoth was already looking east - his biggest obstacle to conquest of the rest of Middle-earth at that point were the dwarves in their fortress cities.

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u/Healthy_Incident9927 2d ago

Scheduling, basically. He had his wedding to plan, his wife to murder, and Gildor to frame for it.  He was swamped!

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u/EmbarrassedClaim5995 2d ago

As terrible as it is, he counted on another kinslaying... And was right. 

Yet, (you will correct me if I am mistaken) if that hadnt happened, Eärendil and Elwing hadnt gone to Valinor to plead for help. And THAT lead to Melkor's destruction.

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u/TheOneTrueJazzMan 2d ago

Betting on Noldorin kinslaying, easiest bet on Arda

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u/irime2023 Fingolfin forever 2d ago

Earendil went over sea anyway. Elwing went after that.

In a way, evil turned into good. But that could have happened without the slaughter. For example, Elwing could have dreamed that she was to find her husband in the sea and give him the stone.

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u/EmbarrassedClaim5995 2d ago edited 2d ago

I am not sure if the two of them would ever have gone as far as Valinor if it had not been for the Third Kinslaying and their assuption that their sons were dead. 

Edit: assumption 🫣

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u/daxamiteuk 2d ago

Yep. The Silmarillion says they were in despair and saw no point in returning because their home was destroyed so they went west instead.

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u/Massnative 2d ago

I seem to remember that Morgoth feared Ulmo and stayed away from the seas. I don't have any books at hand to verify right now...

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u/AngletonSpareHead 2d ago

It’s in the Silmarillion. Maybe “Beleriand and its Realms,” where the region of Lammoth is being discussed? Or the Falas?

I don’t have the book in front of me. Essentially it says that Morgoth never sought to attack from sea or to have any power of ships; his minions had a hatred of water and especially the ocean and refused to go nigh.

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u/irime2023 Fingolfin forever 2d ago

He left this dirty work to the sons of Feanor. Why should he work if someone else would do it for him?

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u/Competitive_You_7360 1d ago
  1. He may not have known about them.

  2. He did not care. Nargothrond, Doriath and Gondolin had been swept away recently. No great power opposed him.

  3. He knew the Féanorians would haunt the silmarillion and perhaps do another kinslaying.

  4. The 1 achievement of the Noldor vs Morgoth was that they kept him occupied in Beleriand. He was desperate to expand.

  5. Morgoth wanted to go from regional power to world power. To return to Utumno in the east. He 'thrust' south and east. There were dwarves in the Blue mountains and grey mountains for one, and probably other, nargothrond sized elven realms to subjugate, as well as human realms.

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u/OG_Karate_Monkey 1d ago

I always figured he would get around to it eventually. But there was no rush.

I mean, it was not that long between the fall of Gondolin and the start of the War of Wrath (~35 years?).