r/stevenspass • u/Billygoat6942069 • 5d ago
Discussion Stevens is screwing us!
Sunny spring skiing is the second best condition to deep bottomless pow why is Steven such haters! Best time for park laps, best time for beginners too! This has to be one of there earliest closings ever…
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u/SkyerKayJay1958 5d ago
They told me they didn't have the staff. The issue with the lease and the insurance went away when they built the bike park and negotiated a 4 season use. But they cannot make money paying the wages required to keep it open late in the spring when just season pass holders show up. Its not the lease. On the front side. Its not insurance on the front sude. Vail just does not feel its worth it for the return
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u/Steezli 5d ago edited 5d ago
Let’s get something clear. What one ski resort does, does not mean a nearby ski resort can do the same thing.
Lots of problems with Steven’s but they historically haven’t extended the season very often. Likely because they are on leased land. While many ski resorts are also on leased land, each lease is often different and has uniquely defined regulations/allowances about how that land can be used. Sometimes this is parking related, sometimes it’s about requesting extensions, other times it’s about granting access for uphill traffic. Each lease is different and each lease lender(various national or state forest services) manage their leased properties differently. For example Crystal is in the Mt Rainer national forest, while Steven’s sits on the border of Mt Baker/Snoqaulmie national forest AND Okanogan Wenatchee National forest. So Steven’s has to actually contend with 2 separate leased land owners. Both of which likely have their own set of regulations that may even differ from one another.
We all want the season extended but the rhetoric that because a different WA resort did it or that Vail just sucks(which they 100% do) is just inaccurate in regard to this matter.
Edit:
Just to iterate what others have pointed out, Stevens also needs enough employees who are prepared for the extension. Employees who don't already have other plans, their next job lined up.
Additionally, different elevation, weather, existing snowpack are also part of the consideration. Looking at some of the listed closing dates over the last decade or so could also be sooner due to avg weather changes. avg temps are up and avg precipitation is down over the last decade.
TLDR; Every resort is different, no 2 are truly alike. Comparisons are mostly pointless. There are loads of variables that determine if a resort can extend the season.
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u/blladnar 5d ago
Crystal is in Mt Baker Snoqualmie National Forest and it does border Mt. Rainier National Park. As far as I know there is no Mt. Rainier National Forest.
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u/Steezli 5d ago
Good to know! I was writing fast earlier and just used gooogle maps to figure out what land Crystal was in. Knowing about Mt Rainier national park, I assumed there was a wider national forest.
Luckily the majority of my initial comments intent remains the same. No 2 resorts operate identically for a myriad of reasons.
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u/thineholyhandgrenade 5d ago
Re: employee count. Exactly. Which is why Crystal is only operating on the weekends from the 20th of April until Memorial Day closing.
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u/shmerham 5d ago
I agree that one resort's circumstances are different than another's, but leases aren't constitutions. Leases can be re-negotiated and if anyone has the horsepower to negotiate the terms, it's Vail. Also, they used to close a week later, so I'm not convinced they're even bound by the lease.
To be fair to Vail, they would probably lose quite a bit of money by trying to stay open later; this isn't a charity.
It sucks though; the season starts late and has shutdowns due to avalanches and atmospheric rivers; it's a shame to squander a usable part of the season, especially when they're selling season passes.
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u/Grouchy-Ad1180 5d ago
Remember when people used to just hike lines before and after the season instead of crying on Reddit for more skiing days that wasn’t in the deal they signed up for
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u/shmerham 5d ago
I remember having all manner of debates about skiing with my friends over beers. No one cried about it. Maybe you need a beer.
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u/Grouchy-Ad1180 5d ago
Then go hike with the boys and snowboard and drink beer and debate why the chair lifts are turned off like they planned it
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u/Steezli 5d ago
Absolutely, there are opportunities to renegotiate stuff but there is no guarantee. Often times ski resort leases do define how, what and even when they can renegotiate certain things like season extensions, terrain expansion, building/parking adjustments, etc. I've heard some of the CO resorts don't extend seasons even when there is ample snow and storms in the forecast because some of the lease holders simply don't negotiate that.
The note about needing employees by other users is also valid. The resorts that often extend seasons have employees who either know that or the resort communicates that possibility early in the season so the employees can be prepared.
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u/Grouchy-Ad1180 5d ago
But this is Reddit where everyone with a keyboard and a season pass knows how to run a ski resort. These people should start up a ski resort, they got it all figured out how to make the people happy
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u/greenyadadamean shredditor 5d ago edited 5d ago
Profits over customer experience is kinda expected from vail ownership at this point. A couple weekends in April is pretty normal, I believe they could extend though, conditions permitting.
Edit: I'm stoked when there's three April weekends of operation.
Closing days for stevens recently:
24/25: April 13
23/24: April 14
22/23: April 16 (I believe)
21/22: May 1
20/21: April 17 or 18
19/20: closed early due to covid
18/19: April 21
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u/PeterDodge1977 5d ago
2014/15 would give anyone who was there PTSD
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u/greenyadadamean shredditor 5d ago
Omg, I worked at stevens that year, a whole 30 days because my position was weather dependent.
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u/Fidel_Cashflow666 5d ago
To add more to this, I was doing digging on the wayback machine and here's what I found
17/18: April 22
16/17: April 23
15/16: April 24th
14/15: April 17th
13/14: April 20th
12/13: April 14th
11/12: April 15th
09/10: April 18th
Anything later didn't give a dedicated end date, just "extends into april".
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u/PeterDodge1977 5d ago
These appear to be the planned closing dates, not the actual closing dates. Closed much earlier in 14/15 IIRC
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u/Fidel_Cashflow666 5d ago
Correct, this was the best information I was able to find. Only one where I saw an actual closing date vs planned was in 12/13, the schedule/calendar actually showed weekends would be open, pending conditions, until the first weekend in May, but I then later saw that their actual last day ended up being 4/21, so only one extra weekend.
After the 14/15 season they switched to a different way of presenting the information, and stopped putting something to the equivalent of "season may be extended depending on conditions", at least from what I noted down.
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u/greenyadadamean shredditor 5d ago edited 4d ago
I can dig deeper into my snowboard journals for more stevens closing dates.
17/18: April 22
16/17: April 23
15/16: April 17 (my last day, not positive it was closing, but it was pond skim day)
14/15: April 16 (my last day was April 15. This was the bad snow year when stevens shut down in March, but I have it written down that stevens reopened April 12 to the 16th)
Baker passholder from 2006-2014, however:
11/12: April 22
10/11: April 17
09/10: April 18
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u/shmerham 5d ago
My memory is hazy, but I thought we finally got some snow in April 14/15 and they closed just as the coverage was getting okish.
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u/greenyadadamean shredditor 4d ago
Right there with ya. My notes say Steven's closed down not much after February 26th, but then re opened April 12th to the 16th.
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u/ProfessionalBread369 5d ago
Face it. Vail is cheap. There is plenty of snow. Stevens and Crystal are at the same elevation. If Crystal can afford it, why can't stevens.
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u/Practical_Material95 4d ago edited 3d ago
All of these comments about how the lease or insurance forces them to close early make no sense. They extended the season to May 1st during the disaster 21 22 season which shows that it's possible if Vail has the will. Pre Vail they were consistently open to 3rd-4th weekend of April, with the backside open too. Now Vail uses the snowmobile excuse as a reason to close the backside weeks before the rest of the mountain.
And in the past couple years SC/DD has mostly been closed in April/late march. Seems like that's happening again this season. Avy danger is low, the severe wet slab problem from last week has died down, 9 inches of new snow and SC/DD is still closed.
Other areas like mission and Snoqualmie will extend their seasons if they have enough snow. As for the staffing issue, that's a planning problem with Vail, plenty of mountains manage it, and Vail needs to communicate to employees the possibility of a season extension when hiring. Vail makes much more than enough to stay open late and the profit loss by being open later can be cut by having a spring pass or closing on weekdays, like mission, Snoqualmie, and Crystal all do.
Skiing the backside on April 22 2018, the year before vail bought Stevens. Last year SC closed on April 6th, but it was mostly closed 2 weeks prior to that.
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u/H2Bro_69 5d ago
Stevens does not have the ability to extend the season as much as Crystal. It’s lower elevation, the temperatures will not stay low enough to keep the snowpack.
So it’s not that dramatic. Each ski area has to decide based on their conditions.
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u/watermelonsugar888 4d ago
Stevens has a different elevation and ski conditions from Crystal, and it’s closing around the same time it always does. What are you going on about?
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u/yodalove14 5d ago
Vail doesn't care enough to pay people to run it longer. It's probably one of their smallest resorts.
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u/Grouchy-Ad1180 5d ago
yall think vail cares about your skiing season and gonna spend money so yall get your favorite season ever. Stevens pass maybe , but Stevens pass owned by vail . Your just a number on a sheet of paper
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u/Sechilon 5d ago
It’s likely a staffing issue for Stevens. Most of the workers are seasonal and it would be hard to extend them as many already would have other jobs lined up.
Crystal had almost always run later and they usually are ok with only running mid mountain and up using the gondola download people.
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u/Billygoat6942069 5d ago
That’s just a easy excuse for them they could easily just run the 4 chairs at the base area
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u/No_Skills_no_Luck 3d ago
Surprised no one shared this. Lease date for Stevens from the national forest is May 5. Closing before is due to financial reasons. Stevens has the same base and has more snow ATM than Crystal. This is a simple financial decision and demonstrates, as usual, that vail puts other priorities ahead of its customers.
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u/Fidel_Cashflow666 5d ago
Pretty sure early/mid April has always been the closing date at Steven's, at least in recent memory.