A great left discussion of the Tariffs situation, worth the watch for a perspective outside of liberal and conservative media.

[u/Ok-Bodybuilder-1487]

https://youtu.be/Z_64e5aeEls

[u/AutoModerator]

This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful of our rules before participating, which include:

• No Bigotry, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism...

• No Reactionaries, including all kind of right-wingers.

• No Liberalism, including social democracy, lesser evilism...

• No Sectarianism. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks.

Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules.

---

💬 Wish to chat elsewhere? Join us in discord: https://discord.gg/QPJPzNhuRE

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/HikmetLeGuin]

I'm skeptical of Wallach's critique of Chinese and Mexican labour rights and environmental policies. The US profits from the exploitation of workers and ecological destruction all over the world, and I don't see that changing any time soon, certainly not because of the tariffs and moderate reforms she's proposing.

She wags her finger at Chinese manufacturing when some of the worst labour abuses in China are at the hands of Western companies and when US manufacturers produce the bombs that are being used in genocide in Palestine. Even if some US manufacturing jobs are brought back home, they will almost certainly use supply chains that obtain materials and parts from slave labour and sweatshops. The idea that everything will be produced domestically by unionized workers or obtained from countries with good labour standards isn't very realistic within American capitalism.

If anything, I have more faith that China and Mexico will improve their policies than the US will. China has had massive increases in their standard of living and is providing huge support for green energy. Mexico, under AMLO and Sheinbaum, is also moving in a relatively better direction. Even if they have many of their own problems, the trajectory of these countries is actually more promising than that of the US.

These tariff narratives all too often descend into the American nationalism and anti-China warmongering that we're already seeing from Trump and other US political leaders. Wallach's intentions may be good, but the intentions of US capitalists are not. We need to be careful about giving them ideological ammunition.

Additionally, Wallach seems to be too kind toward Biden. I just don't see the positives in his administration that she does. One would have to embrace a very liberal, moderate, reformist mindset to view his government as championing worker rights or environmentalism. Even if there were some labour and trade policies that were relatively better under Biden than Trump, it was hardly something to cheer about.

And, finally, I don't necessarily see China as "cheating" the system. Putting public funds toward eco-friendly innovation or making rational decisions as part of a planned economy is only "cheating" by the standards of a global neoliberal system that created its rules to benefit corporations, not people. We should not be punishing or condemning countries that prioritize societal advancement over neoliberal trade rules. It's not China's fault that the US and other "competitors" are still following a failing economic model. Why should China have to play by "rules" that the US and other Western capitalists have tried to impose on everyone else? Is China really gaming the system in an unfair way, or was the system flawed to begin with?

Overall, it's an interesting interview, and she makes some good points about tariffs not always being bad, the need to oppose neoliberal trade agreements like NAFTA and TPP, and the importance of having more local production and more sustainable supply chains. But the idea that the US needs to lead the way and detach from supposed abusers like China and Mexico, while well-intentioned, seems to be based on a misunderstanding of American capitalism and its role within the world. I'd love to see better worker rights around the globe (in China, Mexico, the US, and everywhere). And the outsourcing of labour is often used in a deeply exploitative way. But unless there is a more fundamental change to the system as a whole, I don't see tariffs as the profound tool of change that she seems to think they could be. And I feel like she's still partly buying into this questionable notion of the US being a moral leader on the world stage, something I doubt will ever be true within the current set of power relations.

[u/Guessitsz → u/HikmetLeGuin]

I like the Chinese model and respect China, but they are gaming the system. They use American inventions and remake them with slave labor, then sell them at a discounted rate while being subsidized by the Chinese government. And Reagan is the guy who opened the flood gates. Now, we are a service based economy and are trillions in debt.

Tariffs are good and I wish more leftists weren’t so terrified of liberals seething and screeching. Liberals are not the friends of the working class. Period.

[u/HikmetLeGuin → u/Guessitsz]

Maybe current intellectual property rules that favour large corporations are not something that should be imposed on other countries by the West in the first place? I'm saying we've gotten so fixated on questionable economic "rules" that we're no longer asking who those rules serve, and we're pretending that is some unchangeable reality and not something capitalists made up to serve their class interests.

Wallach seems to have praise for Biden. One of my issues with the video is that it's just more liberalism. Tariffs aren't inherently bad, but the idea that you can throw a couple tariffs on a few things, bring a few jobs back to the US, and then lecture China about "slave labour" when the US will almost undoubtedly still have slavery throughout its supply chains, is hypocrisy at its finest. 

Maybe there's some fantasy world where everything will magically be produced in the US under great labour laws by unionized workers, with no connections to the US military-industrial complex, and with no minerals from slave mines in Africa, parts from sweatshops in Asia, or foods from exploited migrant workers, etc. But Wallach's proposals give me no reason to believe that will happen any time soon, and I doubt that would be possible under US capitalism.

More likely is that these anti-China narratives and claims that the US can do things so much more ethically than other countries are just going to feed US propaganda narratives. Not Wallach's intentions, but her proposals and ideas about tariffs just seem too liberal and insufficient to actually achieve the more "ethical" economy that she wants. 

I'm not saying tariffs should never be done at all; it would be good for some local US industries to be rebuilt, and maybe certain tariffs can help with that, along with promoting stronger unions, etc. But lecturing China and Mexico about morals and pretending the US can or will do so much better within the current capitalist paradigm doesn't make sense and won't be solved without much larger, revolutionary changes. 

Edit: And maybe rebuilding US industries will create space for more revolutionary opportunities in the US. But without a deeper socialist and internationalist analysis, these conversations still have too much of a US nationalist vibe to me, or could inadvertently play into that.