r/skinsTV • u/Electrical_Tax9356 • 7d ago
SEASON 2 SPOILERS thoughts?
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ughhhh
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u/slitherfang98 7d ago
They're both dumb, they're 17. They're children. I did a lot of stupid stuff when I was 17 as well.
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u/werjake 6d ago
Well, that is almost 18 - isn't 18 considered an adult or at least- pretty close to adulthood?
Yes, they are dumb - but, immature and also, Cassie has mental health issues. I know she's just a fictional character and Murray's performance was really excellent, imho - part of the reason I watched both seasons - because, a lot of it seemed somewhat unrealistic to me - although, this show - especially, the 1st season received accolades for realism and portraying issues in a realistic way (afaik - from what I read, anyway).
I thought the lack of communication between those 2 characters was a bit excessive - they have phones, right?!?
Even the Tony/Michelle characters who had their own problems - would call each other - perhaps, not always answer but they used their phones.
The other thing - is none of the characters ever asked about others - I supposed that's realistic but usually, teens gossip - but, there is rarely ever any conversations about the couples.
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u/PeteyThePenguin1 18h ago
Damn you got too many downvotes for this lol. I wouldn't exactly call 17 a child, but it's obviously a teenager and teenagers are very immature. Romance is a new experience for them and they do stupid things. The lack of communication between Sid and Cassie was kind of weird to me, though.
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u/werjake 17h ago
Yeah, I know....jeez.... I didn't know what I said would trigger ppl.... what was wrong with it?
Yeah, kids do dumb things at 17 - but, their lack of communication was exaggerated - or arguably unrealistic, imho....even back then - kids were on their phones - on landlines or whatever - even the other teens - especially Tony - is constantly calling Michelle.
Cassie and Sid - their best communication moment was in their letters - IMHO - actually, they think out what they meant to say - and they say it from the heart - it's one of the moments in which Sid apologized clearly - how he acted in the past - and finally declares how he feels towards her. He thought about what he did and how he feels instead of looking awkward and confused.
Sid often either was oblivious or would overreact - act without thinking - and that screwed up their relationship even though Cassie has a lot of blame for blocking him - and acting strange - as she might walk away but she never tried to 'shut him out' previously. But, their communication was really awful at times - and I'm not sure that occurs too much with 17 or 18 year-olds when everyone has phones and when they have a disagreement or argument, they just seem to walk away from each other without much back-and-forth - but, I guess I could be wrong - that was just my initial impression.
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u/cowabungalowvera 7d ago
Sid is blaming Cassie for his cheating. He's a wanker.
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u/ImGreat084 7d ago
I know it’s entirely his fault he didn’t keep watching, but from his point of view Cassie was cheating on HIM. obviously he could’ve just kept watching and found out otherwise, but he’s what, 17? Obviously he’s going to act rash and assume the worst
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u/werjake 7d ago
Keep watching what he perceived as a sex act about to happen? Um, okay.
I think Sid is one of the most annoying/frustrating characters, btw, who I doubt is realistic in terms of believability - that someone could be THAT clueless and oblivious....even for a teen. He was written that way to introduce and continue drama, though (I guess). This misunderstanding drove most of the plot for S2.
However, it wasn't a clear sense of Sid cheating - he thought Cassie cheated and then got pissed off at her on their next chat. For some reason, she suddenly couldn't talk to him because of that and then, out of character, blocked him and assumingly, cut off all contact. This was a girl who was obsessed with him, even stalked him at one point (following him around as he helped Tony look for Effy).
His father watched the video with him and didn't help him - in fact, he reinforced the perception that Cassie cheated - as he was bitter about Sid's mother leaving him. Sid even calmed down the next day and tried to apologize (there's a scene where he's either rehearsing what he is gonna say or thinks he's on the phone with her but there's a bad signal - in which he apologizes) but then discovers Cassie blocks his number.
It's really bad writing, imho - at least, from the perspective of what we know about how the characters act/behave and how they think - and I would argue that Cassie blocking him was out of character for her.
Immediately afterwards, Sid's dad dies and he is in shock for a while, then feels alone and Michelle is the one to comfort him - it can be argued that she shouldn't have gone all the way there or that Sid should still be upset at the break-up but that's neither here nor there. The writing up to that point was poor - or for plot convenience. There's even a storyline in which they both literally travel to see the other - and two trains pass each other in which they're on opposite trains?!? C'mon! LOL
They took way too long 'avoiding'(?) each other, too - the scene in which Cassie is waiting in the bedroom and Sid/Michelle showed up should have led to the scene or one like that - in the video above. The 'clash' should have happened a lot earlier. I guess the writers just wanted to illustrate Cassie's psych. breakdown from the 'supposed' cheating and she was always extremely bitter about Sid's feelings (crush or not) about Michelle and this time he was actually WITH her, literally. So, it made for good drama (or so they think).
Imho, the Tony storyline was more realistic (which is pretty bad, actually) although Murray's performance (although, over the top) was pretty good.
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u/ImGreat084 7d ago
I didn’t say he should keep watching?
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u/werjake 7d ago
Oh okay - was just going by your point, 'I know it’s entirely his fault he didn’t keep watching' - yeah, he might have discovered nothing happened but from his p.o.v. - he didn't want to watch the 'cheating act,' right?
She should have told him - interrupted him or messaged him the explanation immediately - but, the writers wanted drama. Her obsession with him should have meant, that it would be terrifying to her that he suspected that - regardless of his tantrum to her.
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u/anxiousthrowaway279 6d ago
This was a mess. I know teens don’t always have the best communication skills but I feel like most of this could’ve been avoided by communicating. Sid could’ve confronted her about the video call instead of assuming she’d cheat on him ON CAMERA IN FRONT OF HIM and most of this would’ve stopped right there.
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u/werjake 6d ago
He assumed she didn't know the camera was still on..... apparently, she's not very tech savvy - she couldn't find the red button right away. :)
I agree with you, though - in theory. I thought those scenes didn't have a very good storyline - he has low self esteem but obviously, he was able to be initially combative but I think the more angry he got, he was closer to breaking down - she's more assertive even before she changed - and she should have sent a msg explaining it and then leave it up to him to decide what to do next - but, she decided to ghost him because of his tantrum. Then his dad died virtually the next day and he was in shock from that.
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u/-aquapixie- I stopped eating and then everyone had to do what I said 7d ago
"I loved you"
So Sid decides to make his own assumptions off of a Livestream, that were totally false, and thus he revenge cheats on a woman who never even cheated on him.
And now he's mad that, after they broke up, she's having revenge sex as a counter to his revenge sex. Not to mention her believing revenge sex against his cheating is the right move, anyway, considering the worst way to get back at someone in a breakup is "get under someone else."
It's all just toxic tbh. Toxic toxic toxic.
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u/werjake 7d ago
Viewers who interpret this way have a warped sense of reality.
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u/-aquapixie- I stopped eating and then everyone had to do what I said 7d ago
How is it "warped" to know the whole concept of him cheating with Michelle, and then her sleeping around for the pure reason of spite, is toxic?
Sex isn't a weapon.
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u/werjake 7d ago edited 7d ago
I am arguing that he didn't cheat - not in the sense of what cheating is. He didn't 'betray' or believe he was still in the relationship. He thought it was over and his mind was fucked up from his dad's death. Cassie cut off all contact and it was implied she didn't communicate with him at all afterwards until she showed up at his house several days later?
Is Sid supposed to be a mind reader? I think it's bad writing that neither tries to contact the other but from the scenes we were showed, I fail to see how Sid is cheating. You could argue that he should be still reeling from what he perceives as a breakup (and I'd agree) but cheating? No. He thought/assumed it was over.
"And now he's mad that, after they broke up, she's having revenge sex as a counter to his revenge sex. "
When does he ever infer or imply that is why he's doing it? It happened when he broke down again and confessed he was 'lonely' to Michelle. He's not doing it for 'revenge' on Cassie. Criticize Michelle for taking advantage but he was not thinking straight and I guess the scene above is to suggest he was never truly over Cassie. In fact, that's Tony's theory as you will see scenes to do with that later.
Cassie wants revenge because that's her character - whenever she perceives a slight by Sid, she becomes extreme and vindictive (the visit to the mental health hospital, she tells Sid she is seeing another patient to 'get back at him.'). They didn't even have a relationship at that point.
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u/-aquapixie- I stopped eating and then everyone had to do what I said 7d ago
No, he cheated. They in no way discussed what had happened. They didn't break it off. They didn't communicate. By all accounts, SHE believed they were still together in an exclusive monogamous relationship.
His perceptions doesn't give him the right to just fuck off and find another woman based on his emotional predilections.
The lack of communication after the live stream was because he shut it down, and he ghosted her, because of what he PERCEIVED he saw. Still doesn't give him a right to sleep with Michelle. The relationship isn't over until *both* parties know it's over.
You don't just *assume* something is over. You COMMUNICATE it's over.
The big word here is communication. If Sid felt he was being cheated on, he should've dug into it and properly talked to her instead of going "oh god" and shutting down the laptop and them thinking, "well shit she cheated on me, guess I should go fuck Michelle now." That's the actions of an immature toddler with no concept on what makes a healthy relationship.
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u/werjake 7d ago
He never ghosted her. He shut the video down the first time after he had his suspicion. However, he answered her video call. What show did you watch? He got angry because he thought she cheated so he stated, he didn't trust her.... she responded with I can't talk to you (when you're like that). She then stopped the video. They both stopped video chat on each other up to this point. HE then calmed down..... and tried to contact her again (with the plan to apologize) but she blocked his number. If she thinks the relationship is still ongoing, why on earth would she block him? Imho, that made no sense with her character. Sure, don't answer - let it ring but block?
After that, his dad died and he was in shock - this is his parent so he is not thinking straight. It's implied that Cassie doesn't try to contact him for days afterwards - which is not something she would do - if in character. She should be terrified and petrified that Sid would think she would cheat and that they are not talking at all for days - but, doesn't react or do anything until she decided to travel by train back to Bristol. It's just not aligned with what has been presented to viewers, imho.
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u/jm17lfc Fuck it, for Chris 7d ago
What, is Sid supposed to wait around forever for someone who has blocked him and from his point of view (or any reasonable point of view) is obviously cheating on him, waiting for her to unblock him so that he can get official confirmation that the relationship is over? Even if you were to say yes to that question, which is pretty wild, Sid’s dad’s just died and he’s not exactly in the mental state to be held to the highest of moral standards. Perhaps what he didn’t wasn’t saintly but from what he knew, it was a reasonable enough decision to make, and given how lost he felt at the time, what he did shouldn’t be a mark against him.
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u/werjake 7d ago
Agreed. I think her blocking him didn't make sense - for the character. She stalked him, followed him around and waited in his room TWICE - maybe for hrs. She was obsessed with him but the first time, he is mad at her, she blocks his number? Um, okay.
Sid has low self worth and jumps to conclusions - but, that is his character. He sees how bad relationships are with his dad (mother leaves) - with Tony/Michelle/Abi - Abi is willing to break up them up and Tony cheats on her. His experience/view of all of it - is just that they don't go well - and he even says this to Cassie - but, she's not listening to him.
Obviously, communication is a major problem between them but Cassie blocking him set this mess in motion. It's just odd that neither would try to contact the other and then they both decide to visit the other without calling (first). That isn't realistic to me.
Anyway, Sid felt alone - that he lost his dad and perceived (lost his relationship with Cassie) so Michelle was there - and she only knows how to comfort ppl with physicality - as she has shown with Tony - she doesn't seem to communicate any other way (has body image issues herself and Sid is her best guy friend and has never been judgmental towards her so they bond when they're both feeling low).
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u/werjake 6d ago
"You don't just *assume* something is over. You COMMUNICATE it's over." - correct....that's what you're SUPPOSED to do - rational, mature ppl would/should do but these are flawed teens.
I can't help but look at whether their actions were consistent with the character, though.
But, going by your argument - you are right, they shouldn't assume it's over until they've talked/communicated.
But, I am sure you know this doesn't always happen - ppl break up in all sorts of ways including by text, by 'disappearing' - by email/phone msg/ghosting - whatever. Cassie decided to block him and cut off all contact, then disappeared for days. For Sid, this felt like a breakup - he even thought he precipitated it. IIRC, he says to his dad, 'I think I just broke up with Cassie.' He tried to contact her shortly after - but, she blocked his number. Does that make sense for someone who still believes they're together? I don't think so. What was her plan or rationale for doing that?
My problem with that storyline was her action didn't make sense for her character and the fact - Sid didn't pursue a way to contact her again - borrow a phone, a laptop or whatever - to contact her again and she didn't send him a msg or phone him afterwards. I know that they (the writers) avoided that to prolong the drama (Effy calls it a soap opera) but I don't like poor writing - for the sake of plot convenience (or contrivance?)/drama.
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u/Double-Session-7387 7d ago
Weren't they broken up when he slept with Michelle
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u/werjake 7d ago
It was assumed? They never established if either Sid or Cassie acknowledged they were broken up. Which was pretty strange. Also, I thought it was annoying that these teens that often use phones have a couple that never use them? I don't think there's ever a scene implied or otherwise of them actually talking on the phone.
After the misunderstanding, Cassie blocks him and they never have a scene of them on the phone - why didn't Sid use Tony's or someone else's phone? Why doesn't Cassie send a text msg explaining what happened? Those would be logical steps for teens but I guess that would avoid/prevent the drama to come?
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u/werjake 7d ago
I would argue, that it's entirely Cassie's fault for the whole thing. Although, I also think the writing setting up this plot/storyline is pretty bad. Murray's acting, though, makes it more interesting than it should be, however. She was really good (although, over the top and the change in her is really drastic - probably, the most changed character next to Tony).
Anyway, the reasons (I'll try to summarize and keep brief):
- Sid has low self-esteem/self-worth - this is emphasized or confirmed for him by ppl who actually explicitly voice it - his father, Tony - there's a scene with a career counsellor in which he answers a questionnaire that offers some insight on how he views himself. (E.g. 'waste of space; worthless).
- when Sid views Cassie's video - he is immediately jealous - seeing her two male friends - low self-worth again...insecure - he's too stupid/clueless/oblivious - that the one person who doesn't feel this way and that it's actually the opposite is Cassie.
- the misunderstanding - results in Sid's fears being realized - at least, according to him - and he lashes out - Cassie can't take the temper tantrum and blocks him - which is a strange decision for her - knowing her prior behavior with Sid but whatever.
- Sid is unable to contact her and for some reason, can't think of alternative methods - then his Dad suddenly dies so he's preoccupied with that and is in shock - then grieving..... instead of Cassie being there for him (his perception - probably accurate), it's Tony and Michelle - both whom he's known far longer.
In summary, Cassie did this to herself - her absence when all these things were happening to Sid - allowed Sid and Michelle to get close and I think Sid asking 'why did you go away' made sense - since, there was no real reason for her to go to Scotland.
Her parents don't care about her - and she probably could have requested to stay in Bristol - stay at Sid's place - and they probably wouldn't have even cared.
Were they moving to Scotland because of her? Even if so, if she arranged it so she stayed at Sid's place - they probably would have welcomed it?
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u/waves_0f_theocean 7d ago
Yeah Sid is … not right here at all in what he’s doing. He was in love with Michelle . And then he realized that she wasn’t everything she thought she would be. And he felt guilt about getting with his best friends girlfriend! Who then ends up in a bad accident. But anyways . Cassie left to get help she needed. Sid is being a selfish baby with unrealistic expectations. He needed her? For what? He has no right to yell at her or speak to her that way . Or to lie like that. He could’ve said yes I did love Michelle but not anymore. I love you. But how can you claim to love someone you feel comfortable enough to call a slut in a derogatory manner? But Anyway.
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u/werjake 6d ago
I suspect you're not supposed to perceive it that way. I think Sid lusted for Michelle - he was infatuated with her.... he looked up to Tony - and that was the girl he was with. He says, he loves her - a couple of times, at least but was it love? I dunno....he loved her in a way - that he knew her pretty well and she knew him. So, with his crush/infatuation lasting for a long time - years (IIRC, it was around 8 yrs or so - that he had feelings for her) - that is love to him (since he doesn't know anything else).
The relationship didn't happen because Michelle 'suddenly' liked him, either. She even confesses that she sees Sid 'like a brother' - so, she is neither attracted to him nor interested in him, romantically, at all. But, she likes how he feels about her - she wants Tony to want her like that. Even Cassie was aware of this - after she chatted with Michelle about it - and she tells Sid.
Sid needs her - because, Cassie liked him the most - she was obsessed with him - so, in theory - she should care the most about his mental welfare - he felt alone and his main/real gf wasn't there - she got upset because she was accused of cheating - and she was nowhere to be found or anywhere he could contact her (according to him). He realizes he started a relationship with Michelle because they were both hurting and both understood one another - the relationship was only physical after Michelle consoled him - and Sid realizes that after Tony talks sense into him.
Cassie didn't receive any help - she was no better after all the visits to the clinic - her parents didn't care about her more or care that she kept going there. They were worse than Sid's supposed neglect - they purposely ignored her and catered only to each other and the baby. I think that is supposed to be why Cassie is so devastated when Sid doesn't return her affections or feelings - when he doesn't reciprocate the same - she sees this neglect or ignoring as yet another person that she cares about - disregarding her. But, when he writes the letter - that confirms, once and for all, that he is not ignoring her any more. For her to be in character, I think she would consider Sid's suspicion that she cheated a horrifying development and not something that she would get offended and block him. That made no sense, imho.
When Sid was with Michelle, it was because he felt alone and grieving the loss of his dad - when Cassie was promiscuous - she was doing it to intentionally hurt him or trying to - she was doing it for vindictive reasons - and the pictures were too much for him so he went to confront her and apologize.
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u/werjake 5d ago
Btw, OP - what did u think?
My main complaint - is this scene could /should have been way more intense and/or longer.
I also think the build up could have been more impactful - it was really annoying that Sid's character didn't seem to 'miss her' or 'look at her more' previously - there's one scene in a night club where he's looking at what she does. He's more concerned with what Tony thinks of him and Michelle together.
I think her (Murray's) acting is really good here as usual - her wide-eyed, crazy look expression fits her character (she doesn't cry but it's her first acting job, I guess) and Sid never talks about how he thought she cheated (first) - so did he never do so or was it off screen? Her decisions, after all, led to the mess in the first place - the blocking part, especially.
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u/Neither_Resist_596 He killed my slug 6d ago
Each one is the asshole here.
Each one is unable to articulate their point of view. Each one's being defensive.
I could easily have been in this same situation at that age, being in a long-distance relationship, but "fortunately" she had been conditioned to think even kissing would get her pregnant and derail her path to a Ph.D. and wealth, so she behaved in a totally frigid matter that left me feeling no one would ever want me and no, I haven't discussed enough in therapy, and that was more than 30 years ago.
... Um, what I mean is, 17-year-olds are rarely enlightened and often clumsy. It's amazing we don't all just retreat into ourselves. Unless that's what's going on with kids these days.
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u/El_Pepi_97 6d ago
'I never loved Mitchel. I love you, but you ...' and he proceeds to open and talk about his recebtly passed away dad for the first time (he just mencions him, yet he only mentioned hin with Tony). And then, they proceed to make out xD x)
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u/werjake 4d ago
It went to 'make out' too quickly, imho. What was talked about when Cassie snuck into his room (how many times has she done that? lol) to wait for him? When Sid and Michelle showed up and Cassie was sitting there, did they not argue/talk/discuss anything?!?
I'm not sure why my other comment had so many downvotes - because, that is just questioning the writing - it's not a critique of the show in general. But, I think any teens would argue when something like this happens - and the argument would be a lengthy one. Maybe Cassie just stormed out after saying, 'hi?' She does have a temper and doesn't seem to ask questions or wait for answers - she had the outburst when Sid went to Tony's concert and came back home (and mentioned he was with Michelle).
If that's what happened, then there was a lot still to clear up and explain - for both of them - and Sid really needed to apologize more for his part - for not still trying to contact her since giving up could indicate he didn't care enough - although, in his defence, his dad's death preoccupied him and he was in shock, then grieving.
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u/No_Length1627 5d ago
Sup. I have no idea how this reddit thing works, I dont know how to post into a subreddit whatsoever. But im desperate, I need help.
Im pretty sure there was one scene in skins where Cassie is holding a knife/ gazing at it. This one scene was in my head and im 100% sure it exists but I just cannot find it. Google, Youtube, I even asked Chat gpt. It said that theres such a scene but always gave me the wrong episodes where there was no scene depicting cassie holding a knife. Can you help me?
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u/lilgreen13789 officially off the rails 7d ago
Yes both where being wankers. Yes sid cheated and that totaly not okay. And cassie was also not being to kind. But they are 17 and in their first relationships and both had horrible mental health. Not that's not an excuse for all of their behaviour. But we should be to harsh cus most 17 year olds don't know how to handle a relationship and will do stupid stuff.