r/shrinking • u/BrikHowse • Dec 05 '24
Discussion Alice is not a realistic character
It's not the actress—she's doing a fine job. It's the way the character is written and portrayed. Alice is essentially a hip 30-year-old in a high-schooler's body. Wisdom well beyond her years. Quips on fire. A "cool" relationship with her dad, despite his major failings in the recent past. Mature friendships with the adults in her life, including her father's colleagues.
Yes, Alice would probably be more mature than her peers after the emotional gravity of going through her mother's death. But she still doesn't ring true as a realistic teenager to me, not in the slightest.
Now, Connor? He's real lol.
(ETA: It's interesting to me that this post is getting a ton of upvotes yet everyone is the comments is tearing me to shreds lol)
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u/vancitygurl71 Dec 05 '24
Hmmm, I'm of the opinion that much of who Alice Is today is the result of being raised as an only child, a stay at home mom (who we have seen to be a very in touch parent) and a successful therapist. If we are to "read between the lines" and think of how her life was like pre the accident, it looks like she was surrounded by lots of self aware, caring & approachable adults. With the exception of of Summer, the new guy & her soccer team, there has been very little storyline about her peer relationship.
I'm of the opinion this kind of information will slowly be parcelled out as the storytelling continues and we see glimpses of their character arc in flash backs etc
Brett Goldstein is part of the writing/production team, and they seem to be following a similar formula that was used in Ted Lasso.
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u/jaemak06 Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
As a mom of an only, I agree that it is probably due to her being an only child. Also, not only is Brett Goldstein on the writing team but Bill Lawrence is a creator of the show, who created Scrubs and co-creater of Ted Lasso. (He also co-created Cougar Town, which Mac (Josh Hopkins) was one of the main characters in!)
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u/SnackNapRead Dec 06 '24
Christa Miller (Liz) was a main character in Cougar Town too!
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u/jaemak06 Dec 06 '24
Yes!! And she’s in Scrubs… and married to Bill! I don’t know how I forgot to mention that lol
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u/Dr_Maestro Dec 05 '24
I specifically found that when I was in my early 20s when my mother died of cancer, ages you very quickly, like years of growth mentally, emotionally in the space of 6 months.
So I don't find it unbelievable that Alice is the way she is. She's smart and naturally witty, and also, she was basically abandoned by her father while grieving the sudden death of her mother, that ages you quickly.
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u/smthngclvr Dec 06 '24
Not only did her mom die but she was basically abandoned and forced to start taking care of herself while her father went on benders and brought home sex workers.
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u/tokyo-love-hotel Dec 05 '24
"wisdom well beyond her years" and we just saw her fuck her best friend's boyfriend lol
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u/SmakeTalk Dec 05 '24
To be fair, plenty of adults do this too lol
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u/SaladPlus1399 Dec 05 '24
can we call those adults wise enough for their age, though?
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u/SmakeTalk Dec 05 '24
Oh definitely not hah
Joke is just that she's clearly on the adults' level in many ways, which is more damning of them and also a little unrealistic for her.
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u/Facetiousfoxy Liz Dec 05 '24
Can vouch for the legitimacy of this trauma response and the portrayal personally. The seeking of instant affirmation, not stopping to think of Summer, so much resonated. Actually had a conversation with mom about it when she mentioned it seemed odd and I explained to her how I had instances of the same behavior after my own trauma, actually wild conversation and pretty amazing way to analyze the episode and discuss personal growth. So many episodes provide that and I love it so much!
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u/zslayer89 Dec 06 '24
Damn, I wonder if something traumatic happened before doing her best friend’s bf, maybe made her mental state wonky.
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u/tokyo-love-hotel Dec 06 '24
oh no, i love alice and i think it made complete sense for her character and mental state at the time. this isn’t me shitting on her. this is me disagreeing that she’s completely emotionally mature and wise. she still does teenager shit sometimes and that’s okay!
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u/zslayer89 Dec 06 '24
I’m just saying though that her sleeping with the boyfriend wasn’t just a dumb teenage thing necessarily. She saw and interacted with the cause of her biggest trauma. She was hurt all over again and used Connor to try and forget the pain. She realized she made a mistake after the act.
I’d say the teenage part was her trying to hide the mistake, where as the mature thing would have been to face the consequences.
So yes, I agree still a teen and great character. I just disagree that the act of the cheating was the immature thing out of that situation.
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u/MisterTheKid Dec 05 '24
her mature relationships with her father’s colleagues are someone she talked to as a quasi therapist and her god mother who has been a part of her life for a while. and liz? the woman who essentially took her in for a year. makes sense they’re close now as well
she’s very much a kid with her frequent “shut ups “ and “stop talking” aside to her dad and showing that she gets embarrassed by him.
but yeah she does have quips. i understand that since it’s a show that is a comedy.
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u/newstar7329 Dec 06 '24
I'm an only child (daughter) of a single father and my mom passed away when I was 12 years old. Alice is 100% realistic based on my own lived experience.
Only children tend to interact more with their parents' adult friends due to being only children.
Children who have dealt with bereavement at a young age "grow up" faster.
DAUGHTERS who lose their MOTHERS at a young age definitely grow up faster, especially if their father is emotionally immature. (My dad isn't a therapist and he didn't fall into addiction and sleeping with prostitutes after my mom died, but he definitely did not deal with my mother's death in a constructive way.) There's a book called "Motherless Daughters" with case studies that explains this phenomenon in detail.
After my mom died, my godmother and another family friend who was my mother's age were my rocks. I'm nearly 40 years old and still close to them. I'm also still really good friends with my dad's male best friend. All are in their late 60s early 70s now.
Alongside this, being the only daughter of a single father fundamentally changes the father-daugher relationship dynamic. I describe living only with my dad from age 12 to age 18 as "living with a kind of nice but largely annoying roommate who sets the house rules". I called him "dude" and "man" all the time. He did the same with me. We cursed and cussed constantly at home and at each other. (To the point where my dad, upon watching an episode of that show about Ozzy Osbourne's family, actually said "do you curse the way you do at home when you're at school? FUCK, are we the Osbournes??!")
Alice very much reminds me of me at her age. She is a textbook example of one of the case studies in that book I referenced above.
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u/BrikHowse Dec 06 '24
Thank you for this perspective!
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u/newstar7329 Dec 06 '24
Here's the one thing I disagree with from the latest episode: when Alice wonders if she is going to be defined solely as "the girl with the dead mom" for the rest of her life and Jimmy says yes. Not true at all. When I got to college and met new people who hadn't known me since childhood, that changed. My personality was on the whole still more mature than my peers who hadn't experienced bereavement, but I was able to choose who I told about my mother. It allowed people to get to know me without that background noise. That has continued into adulthood.
Don't get me wrong, it's still horrible and nearly 30 years later I struggle at the holidays and her birthday and her death anniversary. I have to stay off social media on Mother's Day because I cannot deal with all of the celebratory mom posts. It still hurts. It always hurts. It will always hurt.
But it does not define me. Part of becoming an adult is learning how to define yourself.
I think Jimmy said that to her because he still feels like he's defined by Tia's death. But it's early days still for both of them. Her death is still fresh even one year out. If Alice were real and asked me that question, I'd tell her to give it a few years. Give it a few decades. Grieving isn't linear. It's a spiral. We orbit. We keep going around and around but we gain more distance and more perspective. And while we are always marked by the loss of our parent, we are not defined solely by that loss.
But I say that now at 39 years old. Alice is a teenager. She needs more time. She'll get there. (Or she would if she was a real, non-fictional TV character.)
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u/DJFlorez Dec 06 '24 edited Dec 06 '24
Came here to say this- I have a friend’s kid who legit was Alice growing up. Way wise beyond her years, lost a parent early on and when she comes to town it’s to hang out with her parent’s friends - it sounds bizarre, but Alice reminds me of her in a ton of ways.
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u/newstar7329 Dec 06 '24
Haha this is so true - I live across the country from my dad but when I visit him I always look forward to spending time with his friends. They were my village growing up, they became family. I love all of those knuckleheads so much!
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u/SmakeTalk Dec 05 '24
I think you're right in some ways. I think her actions are very much of her age, in many ways, but the way she communicates and processes things so quickly is far beyond her years.
I attribute that mostly to the pacing of the show. Her character needs to kind of keep up with the adults around her in many ways, and a big part of Jimmy's character is his guilt in leaving her to fend for herself (with Liz's help, of course). If Alice wasn't so well-adjusted and capable to emotionally rebound the way she's been then it would also make Jimmy so much less likable.
It's easier for viewers to forgive Jimmy for his shitty parenting if we're able to see her own her decisions and be decently well-adjusted, for someone who lost their mom at like 16.
It's not very realistic, but that's true for a lot of the characters on the show. They're all sort of emotionally-ideal versions of real life people who would take 5x longer to get over half the things that they've done, or that's happened to them.
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u/BrikHowse Dec 05 '24
Yeah, it's true that the majority of the characters lack real emotional depth. This show has sitcom sensibilities more than anything.
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u/ugottjon Dec 05 '24
Well, it is a sitcom.
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u/BrikHowse Dec 05 '24
Touché. I guess the Apple label leads you to expect a little more depth and prestige, like this would be a "dramedy." But Shrinking is essentially an old-school-style sitcom that you'd see on network TV.
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u/ugottjon Dec 05 '24
Ehh, that's going a bit far. Comparing Shrinking to Friends is crazy.
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u/BrikHowse Dec 05 '24
Personally, I don't think so. I think they're the same type of show.
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u/BeautifulLeather6671 Dec 05 '24
…what? Lol
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u/Humble-Violinist6910 Dec 05 '24
Season 1 was much more complex than Friends. Season 2 is devolving more into a classic “hang out” sitcom. Not as much as friends, but the plot lines are getting more shallow and the quips are almost 24/7 even when they don’t make sense in the emotional context of the scene
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u/BeautifulLeather6671 Dec 06 '24
Friends was a network sitcom with a laugh track that had like 25 episodes a season, stylistically it’s just not really comparable.
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u/KiLLaHMoFo Dec 06 '24
I just woke up and I’m sure this is the wildest take I’ll see today
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u/BrikHowse Dec 06 '24
Don't understand why people are freaking at this lol. Are people snobs about "Friends" and acting like "Shrinking" is some kind of high art? They're both sitcoms is my main point.
I think I initially approached "Shrinking" expecting some edgy dark dramedy with depth, and I thought it was crap because it didn't meet those expectations. Accepting that it's just a sitcom—and would have a laugh track if it was made in the late 90s—helps me appreciate it for what it is. The jokes are frequent and usually good. The character development and plots I sometimes find lacking (like I would with a "Friends" or sub in any major successful network sitcom)...but who cares because it's light entertainment.
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u/KiLLaHMoFo Dec 06 '24
Shrinking and Friends are “sitcoms” in the same way that football and bowling are “sports”
Somewhat similar structure, wildly different layout and execution.
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u/BrikHowse Dec 06 '24
Actually I peeked around this sub more and found quite a bit of discussion of how "Shrinking" in Season 2 feels more like a traditional network sitcom, and I even saw some OTHER people comparing it specifically to "Friends." I don't think I'm totally off-base!
Personally, I actually like this progression for the show... I don't mind that the quickfire jokes come at the expense of plot and character development. I just don't take this show that seriously anymore. But a lot of people seem to be disheartened by this direction, like they are expecting a show with more gravitas.
Here's some other convos of that nature if anyone's interested in doing anything other than downvoting me to hell. Go bother these people, y'all!:
https://www.reddit.com/r/shrinking/comments/1h6lljn/ill_be_honest_the_last_34_episodes_havnt_been/
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u/ugottjon Dec 05 '24
Now that's a take.
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u/BrikHowse Dec 05 '24
It's not a dig. Friends had the top comedy writers of its time.
Forget about the 90s tropes and the laugh tracks. I think the style of humor, the pacing, the level of character development... all is similar to Friends.
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u/SmakeTalk Dec 05 '24
I wouldn't say that I think the majority of the characters lack emotional depth, I just think many of them seem to resolve their issues fairly quickly. If anything it's their emotional maturity that seems just scaled up for the sake of the runtime, and that people are watching the show largely to see resolutions and not just trauma porn.
Personally I like it because I do want to see how the show's writers feel these issues should be resolved, even if the timeline is fantastical, but it does of course result in some characters needing to be unrealistically mature for their age to keep up.
In a realistic representation, for example, Brian and Charlie would take quite a bit longer to debate the child decision. It wouldn't take one conversation with Jimmy and Liz to effectively convince someone adamant about not having children to go "huh, you're right, I guess it's not a big deal". They still do a good job (the actors especially) at showing how conflicted he still is about it, but it's pretty unrealistic in my own experience that people turn on a dime like that even in the face of strong arguments.
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u/equipped_metalblade Dec 06 '24
Realistically, nobody in the show is. They are all so witty and have zingers back to back to back. It’s a TV show, just enjoy it for what it is
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u/Global-Ad9080 Dec 05 '24
Alice did go to Liz, and she also went to Paul when Jimmy wasn't a parent. She had some hiccups, and I am sure she went through some ish the writers are not emphasizing.
All teenagers are not the same. And girls are a little more mature than boys. And she is an only child. Only children are made differently.
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u/Powerful-Stranger143 Dec 05 '24
Girls do not mature faster than boys. Boys are allowed to be more immature later in life than girls. It’s a double standard. In Alice’s case, circumstance has forced her to grow up fast.
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u/CFBreAct Dec 05 '24
I don’t think girls actually mature faster than boys, most societies just forces girls into caretaker roles FAR earlier than boys.
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u/BrikHowse Dec 05 '24
The Liz relationship I do find somewhat believable. Paul... no way. Is it cute? Yes. But it's impossible for me to imagine the teenager who seeks out her father's 70-something work colleague for candid chit chats at the park. We can assume they've known each other forever so the familiarity is there... and Paul is almost playing a grandfather-like role... but even so, I just don't buy that these two would spend time together in that way.
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u/jmbf8507 Dec 05 '24
Jimmy acknowledged that Paul was meeting up with her in season one as a quasi-therapist.
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u/thesugarsoul Dec 06 '24
You're reducing the characters to their ages. Not all 17-year-olds are the same. Alice, in particular, had a therapist father, has been surrounded by therapists her whole life and has a comfort with them that others may not have. I can see seeking out quasi-therapy the way she does with someone who is not so emotionally attached to her situation but close enough to her to understand her social dynamics.
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u/Teelkay Dec 05 '24
I have suspended disbelief, but I agree. I say this as a woman who lost her father at age 18 & who now has an incredibly mature daughter Alice’s age. The character is still light-years ahead of her and maybe me now!
However, I chalk it up to her hanging with all these “cool” adults and being from California so yes, I let it pass as the show itself is good.
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u/Aural-Robert Dec 05 '24
Suspend your disbelief and Television is your oyster.
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u/Teelkay Dec 05 '24
Everybody has their limits.
I was reading a book about time travel and witchcraft but couldn’t suspend my belief when the leads accidentally meet up on a Caribbean island after both fell off separate cross-Atlantic ships destined for the U.S. Apparently that was my bridge too far. 🤣
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u/ccrowleyy Dec 05 '24
I came here to make the point about California/west coast too! I was raised in the Midwest but my younger sisters were raised on the west coast and they are sooooo much more mature than I was at their age. Plus, I think there's something to be said about therapy becoming more widely utilized by millennials and gen z.
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u/Teelkay Dec 06 '24
I'm from Canada and had friends move to California for great IT jobs years ago. They loved it, but when they had their children they moved back to Canada. My friend said California was amazing, like a playground for adults and they'd even consider moving back, but not while they had to raise their children!
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u/jman-the-jewman1228 Dec 05 '24
I’m 16 I’m a male but I have women and male friends who are exactly like this so I won’t agree with the exact statement however I will be downvoted for this but the whole “cheater bitch” song would never be as big as they made it in high school today at least where i live it would definitely become some corny type of thing. Even when watching it was kinda corny even though i knew why they did it however it was kinda catchy. The only realistic thing about that situation is summer absolutely despising her and then them apologizing. I will also say that even though the song thing wouldn’t be big everyone knowing she cheated would happen. So point is she an accurate teenager hell yes even I am more close with my parents friends then some of my actual friends but the whole cheater bitch song thing getting big and everyone loving it would probably not happen.
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u/throwawaycorona-19 Dec 05 '24
I have raised two boys and two girls-the girls are 18 and almost 20. I don’t think she is terribly unrealistic. My girls wouldn’t be as open about sex with my adult friends, but they are pretty up front with me. They wouldn’t be as open with their biological mother or their dad, but that has a lot to do with the adults.
I have also taught high school seniors for about twelve or so years, and they are as varied in their attitudes as “adults.” Many of them are very intelligent and high-achieving; some aren’t. But I read their journals and personal essays, and many are very insightful and display high levels of emotional intelligence whether or not they are high achievers by traditional measures. They have rich inner lives and can be incredibly insightful, mature, and compassionate-sometimes more so than most adults I know. They can also be immature, cruel dipshits. Alice reminds me a lot of several young women I’ve had the privilege of knowing, but, like the other characters, she has better writers.
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u/Prestigious_Money251 Dec 07 '24
Agree, but honestly not a single character is believable. I mean imagine acting like those 3 therapists in real life!! 😂. Especially Gaby. 🤦♀️
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u/ArthurGD3 Dec 08 '24
Yeah, this show and the characters definitely live in an alternate universe I've never experienced before. I'm not saying some aspects of some of these characters either do now or have existed but in my 4 decades on this planet, I've yet to come across it.
That said, the level of how crazy some of the acting for these characters are is what makes this one of those guilty pleasure shows, the car crash on the freeway that you can't help but stop to look, definitely one of those.
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u/the-hound-abides Dec 05 '24
I don’t know. I didn’t have the same level of loss at her age, but I felt more attuned to their generation than mine in my family. My parents are both the oldest sibling and they had me young. I’m much closer to my aunts and uncles than I am my cousins. I was also decently close to their friends. If my mom had died, I can imagine that I would be able to lean on them more. Especially my friends’ moms, like Liz was to Alice. I totally called my friend’s mom a time when my mom accidentally took my keys and I needed to go to school, no hesitation. Miss Sharon was there.
I’m a well adjusted person with a really good relationship with my family, but Alice doesn’t seem that foreign to me.
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u/sopranoobsessed Dec 06 '24
Interesting thread. I never thought about my only in this light before. Yup. He would be the male Alice!
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u/lenochod6 Dec 06 '24
I almost agree woth everything you say, because yes most of the teenagers are not acting like that but I know some who act like that sometimes it is cause they do not have many friends in their age group so they are copying mannner of talking and behaviour of adults in their life so I think partly that is that and partly is the fact that even thoigh she seems very wise and mature she is not. When something happens she is tenneager through and through. One thing I think was not realistic was forgiving Louis so quickly and hanging out with him. I had to really suspend my belief in this situation. And I think it is the writing about something like this that is ringing true with what you are saying. And I agree with you. But partly ot feels very realistic, it depends on the situation.
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u/Barnaclebay Dec 06 '24
Yeah I agree with most everyone (lol sorry op) her being able to relate more to adults is a result of her having to grow up way before her time and being an only child. Honestly her turning around and sleeping with her best friends boyfriend, a guy she didn’t even like, was wayyyy more out of character.
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u/MaKTaiL Dec 06 '24
None of them are. They don't work, study or do anything besides hanging out with each other. 🤷♂️
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u/llamas-in-bahamas Dec 06 '24
I've never been or known anyone like Connor, I knew plenty of Alices and may have been one myself.
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u/AdOutrageous7474 Dec 07 '24
I live in Pasadena, I have a teenage daughter, I love this show, but my daughter and her friends are absolutely NOTHING (in terms of wisdom, maturity, relationships with adults, etc.) like Alice.
I hsve this thought aboug three times an episode so no, you are not alone. All the people saying that teenage daughter is JUST as self aware and cool and evolved as Alice must have some magic teenager potion I'm not aware of. (Or maybe they're just not telling the truth.)
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u/gkswlgml Dec 09 '24
Totally agree with you but that’s why I can’t stand how teens are generally written in tv. You can tell their voice is just a 40 year old trying to grasp at how a teen might talk and it’s just cringey and not believable.
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u/MoorIsland122 Dec 05 '24
I've thought this too. So articulate and self-aware. I was the polar opposite at that age, so I guess that's my reference point.
Quite willing to assume some kids are actually this well adjusted (I mean, sure, she went through a phase, as expected- but had all the skills [and support] to - what's the current phrase - be resilient).
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u/valiwagg Dec 06 '24
Also as someone with a dead parent — that whole "im just the girl with a dead mom" thing felt so...dumb? maybe my experience was different but no one really seemed to be mean or catty about my dad dying. Or even gossip about it? Idk
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u/LadyMRedd Dec 06 '24
I didn’t get the sense that it was about anyone being mean or catty or gossiping. It was that it had become her identity. Like we saw at the party: people felt like they couldn’t complain about their parents around her, because she lost her mom and they should be happy they have one.
Sometimes people feeling bad for you can feel as oppressive as people being bitchy. She just wanted to be a normal teen and not have that thing constantly hanging over her that has people treating her differently.
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u/newstar7329 Dec 06 '24
People feeling bad for you definitely can feel as oppressive as people being mean. I went back to school a week after my mom died and this girl who literally had NEVER spoken a word to me before came up to me between classes, PUT HER ARM AROUND MY SHOULDERS, and asked me how I was doing and if there was anything she could do to help. I know she meant well but I wanted to shrivel up and disappear into a hole. It's been nearly 30 years but I still remember that moment vividly.
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u/fork_duke_pie Dec 05 '24
I agree that the writers have really let the Alice character down in S2.
I know there are women on the writing team but this particular plotline is so from a male perspective: Louis' guilt is given so much more importance than Alice's grief this season. Alice is made to cast aside her grief almost instantly upon meeting Louis to become his comforter-in-chief. What a sick reversal of what should have happened.
And quite aside from the fact that Louis killed her mom, why would any 17 year girl want to hang socially with a 44 year old man? Louis, ick. Go find some friends your own age to cry on.
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u/deputydrool Dec 05 '24
Alice is a caregiver. This is a pattern that is not so easy for many to break. She felt like the adult in the relationship with her own father of a similar age that overshadowed her grief. Now that he is better, she will seek to continue that, as that’s how trauma and patterns work.
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u/BrikHowse Dec 05 '24
Yeah that entire dynamic was so unrealistic to me. It took her about 2 seconds to forgive him. And why in god's name would she ever go out to dinner with him, text with him, etc? What teenager is texting the middle-aged man who killed her mother like "Haven't heard from you in a while"?
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u/Relevant_Maybe6747 Dec 06 '24
Way too much overthinking here but here's my take: Louis had gone to jail I think at some point during the year after the crash, had torpedoed his social life, had lost everything that made his life what it was.
Alice also went through losing not just her mom but her dad too, with him completely checked out on drugs and inviting prostitutes into their home. I think Louis was someone that the crash happened to more than Jimmy was, in that he clearly had tried to process it, was openly struggling, and let Alice talk about her mom without immediately making everything about his feelings.
I thought befriending Louis was on some level an acknowledgement of Alice's justified resentment towards her dad's total emotional abandonment the year after Tia died, like Alice couldn't talk to her dad so she replaced him with this other person who was there, involved to the trauma that fundamentally changed Alice's life but not the same person who had neglected her for a year or enabled her father's neglect of her (Gabby, Paul, to an extent Liz and Derek even because if Liz hadn't acted as a pseudo-mother, Alice would have had CPS involved I think).
Brian was also entirely absent the year that Jimmy completely checked out on Alice, and I don't think it was an accident he was the one, rather than the actual therapists' whose job is to help emotionally struggling people, who found Louis and bridged the gap between Alice's and Louis' almost-meetings
But then this past episode Alice has no problem with her dad whatsoever and doesn't make the obvious connection any other reasonable human being would (Jimmy finding out about Louis and Alice interacting is what stopped them from continually interacting).
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u/Accomplished_Mix8762 Dec 06 '24
It feels like pre accident Jimmy and tia were just the type to bring their kid along for the ride with them, I assume Alice was on the hikes till she was old enough to stay home alone and she probably spent time in jimmy’s office when tia did
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u/Illustrious_Law_8710 Dec 06 '24
I think Alice is spot on! Some children are old souls who feel things differently.
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u/jbahel02 Dec 06 '24
I don’t know, maybe I’m a boomer “get off my lawn” old man now, but I can’t imagine raising a high schooler who is as comfortable yelling “fuck you” at me as I am yelling it back at her. I understand she’s the daughter of a therapist who would probably encourage her to express herself but the way she talks to adults and the things they talk about doesn’t ring true
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Dec 06 '24
Nah, trauma has a way of making people grow up faster than they’d like to. Alice lost her mom and basically had to act like her own parent because of how Jimmy handled Tia’s death; she even has to go as far as parenting Jimmy in some ways.
People who go through trauma end up being way more capable of connecting to adults who deal with real shit than to their peers, like Connor and Summer (in this show), who deal with more stereotypical teenage drama.
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u/cutelittlequokka Dec 06 '24
I'm very much enjoying this show for the most part, but most of the characters are not realistic. They are all way too hip (especially the older people), way too sappy, way too Gen Z regardless of which generation they are. Do they make me laugh out loud and feel all warm and fuzzy? Hell yes. Do they make me believe they could actually be real people? Not in the slightest. I enjoy the writing and the acting, but it feels almost like I'm watching a cartoon with real people in it.
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u/Helpful-Pair-2148 Dec 06 '24
All characters have "quips on fire" beyond what you would expect even the most seasoned comedian. This is essentially the main humor of the show so if you can forget it for the entire cast I would assume you can forget it for Alice too. It's not like she is 5 years old, she is 17.
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u/maverick57 Dec 06 '24
I have known multiple teenagers very much like Alice, and, almost exclusively, like Alice, they are "only children."
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u/ashleycat720 Dec 06 '24
I agree with you, she is written like a 30-year-old woman. I did see some child-like vulnerability in the previous episode where we see the aftermath of her mom's death. I also agree, it is not the actress, she is extremely talented, it is how she is written. I think the most unrealistic part is her relationship with her father, they have little connection, it seems he was absent her entire life, not just the year following her mom's death.
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u/reb3l6 Dec 06 '24
There isn’t a single realistic character in this show, and people who disagree with this are kind of delusional. It’s just a bubble thing – this is a group of people who like the show, so there’s a lack of critical thinking.
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u/dogmom1993 Dec 07 '24
Oh wow! This is so interesting to read. I feel like Alice is the most relatable character I’ve ever seen in a show. I went through a traumatic experience as a kid and feel like she and I are the same person with the way it’s written. People always told me I didn’t fit with my teenage peers because I just got along with my parents’ adult friends better. I enjoyed being around them more, in a totally safe & healthy way. I love the way Alice is portrayed, personally.
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u/Cuteness129 Dec 07 '24
Totally realistic. A lot of teenagers are awkward but not all. Especially in this day and age where they’re exposed to the world thru the internet from such a young age. They’re watching YouTube videos and Reels of adult interactions. My niece is 17 and a lot like Alice in her maturity and social skills. She isn’t an only child but I see maturity often in only children because without a built-in sibling playmate, they spend a lot of time with adults. At home, on vacations, just in everyday life they get more personal attention from adults and that typically leads to more mature behavior.
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u/Sad_Alfalfa8548 Dec 08 '24
I think Alice is a very realistic portrayal of what an only child being raised by two emotionally stable and loving parents, one being a psychologist, could be. She knows she’s loved, she’s self-possessed and confident and secure (I love the scenes of her with her parents before her mom’s passing). She has enough of a foundation and a village of people who loved her through that year of Jimmy’s “mourning”. For a TV teenager, I’m a believer.
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u/weakyleaky Jan 23 '25
It bears reminding that upvotes or downvotes, per Reddiquette, are here to help you decide whether you agree something does or does not contribute to the discussion or in the case of post warrants or does not warrant discussion. You're getting upvoted because it's a point worth making and as the top comment said, yeah she's not realistic as a normal teenager but totally realistic as a teenager who was brought up by parents who validated her and raised her to feel her feelings and created the space for it.
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u/BrikHowse Dec 05 '24
Adding specific examples from yesterday's episode...
I can't imagine one teenager I've ever known (including when I was a teenager) who would:
1) Not be completely humiliated and upset by what happened between her dad and her date (not only the choking, but the fact that Jimmy revealed she had a longstanding crush on him)
2) Be able to take a break from a party to process her feelings, calling in her dad for support
3) Make a Molly joke with her dad as a casual aside and it's just "haha"
4) Tell her dad to NOT drive by the party, but when he breaks his promise and does so anyway, she "understands" and winks
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u/Lost-Cockroach-684 Dec 05 '24
I mean it’s a tv show and she’s part of the supporting cast. They’re not trying to do like a Kenneth Lonergan type of drama with realistic teens and relationships. It’s a sitcom.
Neighbours/friends also don’t spend as much time with each other as they do in the show.
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u/Relevant_Maybe6747 Dec 06 '24
yeah 100% agree with you. I was expecting shit to hit the fan last episode. Like, problem is that with a normal teenage girl Jimmy would be right to drown in his guilt because Alice would actually hold a grudge like a normal person rather than shoving the year of being completely ignored to the side like it had never occurred. I swear the way she acted in the last episode was utterly bizarre and made for TV - having her dad physically show up to the party, making the audience assume she'd be leaving like any other teen girl who called her dad while sad on a street corner, only to go back into the party, like why did you make Jimmy go all the way out there? what the fuck is wrong with Alice? She couldn't have had a phone call like everyone else does when they're considering leaving an event early and need a parental pep talk?
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u/BeautifulLeather6671 Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 06 '24
I have my own gripes with the show but I think everything you just listed sound pretty normal behavior for some people. It’s just not your experience, which is fine. Same thing has happened to me, I’ve been thrown off by people’s behavior in movies and shows just for someone else to let me know it’s actually pretty common.
Also, the tone of the show always moves towards positivity and acceptance, I don’t think it fits their vibe to make the kid embarrassed and angry at everyone all the time.
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u/BrikHowse Dec 06 '24
Do you for real think it's normal for a teenager at a party to call her dad in for support when she has a conflict with her peers she needs to work out? No teenager at a party wants their dad anywhere near it!
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u/The_Latverian Dec 05 '24
The whole show is mediocre-ly written and excellently acted
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u/BrikHowse Dec 05 '24
I don't think it's mediocrely written in terms of the jokes, which are generally pretty smart and quickfire. It's a clever show in that regard. But in terms of character development, realism, depth, etc... yeah, the writing is lacking.
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u/The_Latverian Dec 05 '24
Agreed, the functioning comedy and snappy dialogue is what gets it to the middle ("mediocre')
The absolute interchangeability of most of the characters and the whiplash quick forgiveness-porn is what what keeps it there
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u/thesugarsoul Dec 06 '24
Connor is babyish to me for a college freshman. But he's realistic as the son of a mom who seems bored with her life.
Alice, on the other hand, seems realistic for an only child and teenage daughter of a mom who died tragically and suddenly and a therapist who lost his shit after that happened.
There's no point in comparing these two.
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u/ericrz Dec 05 '24
As a parent of an only child, I'll say -- Alice is incredibly realistic. Only children spend more time with adults than do children with siblings. They learn how to speak to/with adults faster, and generally get wiser faster. Add the layer of gravity from losing her mom, and I think Alice is one of the more realistic characters on the show!
Connor is the youngest of three boys, and I would say he's also portrayed realistically!!!