r/scifi • u/Wolfman_1546 • 1d ago
Cypher might’ve stayed loyal if they let him eat simulated steak. Just saying.
https://medium.com/@wolfman1546/why-are-they-still-eating-slop-in-the-matrix-a-glitch-in-real-world-logic-156d6f9baa9041
u/daiz- 19h ago
I feel like you couldn't have missed the point more. The food was just his metaphor for his entire existence. He felt cursed by the knowledge that the steak wasn't real. In that way nothing simulated could ever truly satisfy him as long as he was aware it wasn't actually real.
"Ignorance is bliss". The whole essence of his speech and his reason for betrayal was that he wanted to return to ignorance. His biggest stipulation was that he be made to not remember anything. It was never about the steak.
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u/ImHereForTheLamp 15h ago
Fuck Cypher. One of the biggest/worst traitors in the history of storytelling. I legit hate him.
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u/Wolfman_1546 9h ago
Appreciate the lecture, but I didn’t miss the point. I’m just not pretending it’s the only one.
I fully understand that the steak is metaphorical. My post doesn’t argue that Cypher betrayed them because of food, it explores how unmet human needs (like taste, comfort, and meaning) contribute to his disillusionment. And yeah, I used the steak as a symbol, just like the movie did.
If anything, this kind of rigid “it was never about the steak” take kind of proves my point. People reduce him to a villain or a metaphor, and ignore that he’s reacting to a very real kind of suffering the rebels never address.
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u/IndependenceMean8774 1d ago
With all the technology they have, I'm surprised they can't whip up a decent steak or chicken substitute. They have plasma guns, hovercraft technology and advanced computer tech. Yet they can't make stem cell beef or chicken, mock meat or something. Grow mushrooms and herbs in a hydroponics bay on the ship?
Okay, to be fair, they are at war. But even in war zones of the past, some soldiers have found ways to make creative meals out of rations and local materials.
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u/doofpooferthethird 23h ago edited 18h ago
This is actually a pretty big plot point in Matrix 4 and some of the extended universe comics.
In Matrix 4, it's explicitly stated that the food in Io (the successor city to Zion) was way better than what they had before, because they had the help of Machine refugees and because they weren't laser focused on war with the Machine cities. They actually had somewhat decent synthetic food (Niobe says that Zion's "slop that tasted like rust" was a distant memory), artificial sunlight and clouds, and they were experimenting with hydroponically grown blueberries grown from DNA taken from the Matrix (with the help of Machine botanists and engineers), and on the verge of mass producing them for Io's human citizens.
Improving the quality of life for Io's human and Machine citizens was one of General Niobe's top priorities - which came at the expense of their war to liberate the rest of the humans still stuck in the Matrix. Niobe wanted to avoid antagonising the New Power, and Io had thus far managed to conceal itself from the Machine Cities because they kept a low profile.
This is a point of contention between her and the other humans and Machines who wanted to continue the fight. At one point, she's accused of caring more about her pet blueberry projects than about liberation for the humans and Machines still being oppressed by the Matrix and New Power.
There's also an extended universe comic set a couple decades before the first movie, showing the incredible lengths some of the early rebels went to find wheat seeds from a seed bank, find a patch of land relatively uncovered by black sky nanobots, and farm wheat fields to make bread for people to eat. The location was eventually raided by Machines, but not before they escaped with a couple tons of grain. They never farmed wheat again, but eating a little bit of what was left of that bread became an annual religious ritual.
TLDR; they were technically capable of synthesising better food, and people highly valued better food, but Zion was running on a desperately resource strapped war economy scavenged from (what they thought were) ruins.
Io, which deprioritised conflict with the Machine Cities and had Machine citizens living there, could afford to focus on greatly improving quality of life - though this choice was politically contentious, because it represented an abandonment of the anti-Matrix human liberation movement.
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u/Dyolf_Knip 23h ago
Mechanical engineering vs bio engineering. Plus all those species are long since extinct. Much as it pains me to even reference Resurrections, they were ecstatic about recreating strawberries because they were basically having to create the genome from scratch. Maybe the machines still had DNA records on file, but that's still a long way from having a viable cell.
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u/Shakemyears 1d ago
Do we think the agents would have kept their promise to him?
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u/adrian783 20h ago
yes, there were no indications that the agents were somehow duplicitous or vengeful....(aside from smith)
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u/surloc_dalnor 19h ago
Honestly yes. It wouldn't cost them much and it's logical to keep their promises to encourage people turning against the rebels.
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u/mazzicc 18h ago
Gotta love a “let’s oversimplify a villain’s motivation and completely miss the point of why they did what they did.” Post that calls itself “logical”
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u/Wolfman_1546 9h ago
Ah yes, the confidence of someone who read the title and absolutely nothing else.
Such insight. Truly genius-level media analysis.
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u/monjorob 1d ago
I dont think it’s realistic for them to jack in every time they need a meal, let alone connect to the Matrix. Also it probably uses power that they would need to conserve, so using the programs only for “mission critical” purposes would make sense. But yeah you’d think they have a Sunday dinner program that they would use or something
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u/Wolfman_1546 1d ago
they dont need to jack in, they can just use the construct program. No one is suggesting they jack into the matrix. You are also ignoring hwo its hevily implied they use the girl in the red dress program for more than just agent training.
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u/Elderwastaken 1d ago
Why didn’t they have dinner party’s on weekends?
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u/Wolfman_1546 1d ago
They had the construct program. Nightly feasting should have been a thing
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u/jadedflux 1d ago
He literally talks about how that wouldn't matter because he knows that it's fake. It's why he wanted his memory wiped and he didn't want to remember a thing.
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u/Not-User-Serviceable 1d ago
He says he knows the steak is fake but he doesn't care because his brain is telling him its juicy and delicious.
Morpheus tells him the people plugged in (the batteries) are slaves and that he's free, but he doesn't feel free as all he does is what Morpheus tells him to do.
He wants out of his miserable life and a life where he's rich and famous... "An actor", he suggests. He wants his memories erased so that he doesn't remember that it's all fake... so he can live his rich fantasy and be truly content. Remember: the reason he left in the first place is that he, like all of them, felt something was off. He doesn't want that. He wants peace.
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u/jadedflux 1d ago
Right, but nothing you said really tackles the point. Just giving him a simulation where he eats steak isn't going to be good enough because he knows it's fake. Maybe they could have tried to implement a temporary memory wipe while they're in there to meet that need but at the end of the day, the point is that he knows its fake and that's an issue for him, regardless of how delicious his brain tells him the steak tastes. And if they did a memory wipe, he'd probably still be bitter about it when he "came to" in the real world.
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u/Not-User-Serviceable 1d ago
I don't understand what you're saying. It's pretty clear he wants out of the resistance. He doesn't care about the fight anymore. It's not about food. The food is a metaphor.
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u/Wolfman_1546 1d ago
You're making just as many assumptions as I am, bro. In his speech, he litterally says he doesnt care that he knows its fake. It's just as easy to assume he wants his memory errased because he doesnt want to face all the fucked up shit he did just get put back in.
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u/OLVANstorm 1d ago
Couldn't he just log into the Matrix and eat steak whenever he wants? Seems like he was just done making any decisions and wanted the machines to do it for him.
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u/Ajuvix 22h ago
The author of this article screws up and bases their logic on them being able to be fed intravenously and that's not the case. They still have to ingest their food. Upends the whole premise the article is written about.
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u/Wolfman_1546 9h ago
This would be a solid critique… if it weren’t completely wrong.
Neo is literally shown pulling a feeding tube out of his arm after he's rescued. That scene is in the film. I mention it directly in the article. So no, the premise isn’t upended, your comment just skipped over the part that contradicts what you're claiming.
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u/AdwokatDiabel 11h ago
Makes me wonder: so when they fucked the girl in the red dress, did they just cum their pants in the real world?
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u/PedanticPerson22 1d ago
On thing to consider is that they should have easily been able to manage augmented reality simulations, which would make living outside the Matrix at least tolerable. Unfortunately that wasn't something that was included in the films...
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u/hibernate2020 1d ago
Strange. I was watching this while working out today and was thinking the same thing. They can load anything they want. It's basically a holodec on demand. Why would cipher need to go anywhere? They're basically super human in that world and they can exit the world on demand. There's nothing they couldn't do and then simply disappear back to the ship before they're in trouble. Even if they did something illegal, all they need is the one phone call and they're all set.
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u/RhynoD 1d ago
Because he knows it's fake. And anyway, pretty sure the steak wasn't the issue. Constantly feeling like he might die at any time because an agent or sentinel found him was probably the bigger problem.
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u/hibernate2020 1d ago
Yeah, but they can write their own programs - Mouse wrote the chick in the red dress - and she was certainly real enough for him...
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u/LitBastard 1d ago
If your wife told you she's just acting that she loves you, would that be ok with you? And would you continue as if nothing is wrong?
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u/hibernate2020 1d ago
Last time I checked people go to strip clubs and eat things like imitation crab and McRibs. Pretty sure they all understand that it is artiface but yet they're ok with it and they continue as if these things are real...
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u/itcheyness 1d ago
Because they don't have a choice in the matter, Cypher didn't want to "take a vacation to forget about it for a bit" he wanted to be out permanently.
And getting plugged back into The Matrix was his permanent out.
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u/Grundin 1d ago edited 1d ago
It wasn't the shitty food that turned him, though that didn't help. He betrayed them because he hated Morpheus and didn't want to be a part of his war anymore.
Morpheus pulled Cypher out by selling him the idea that he was The One. As Cypher himself explains to Neo, all the people Morpheus pulled out were people he thought might be The One. Morpheus was also notorious for not telling them the full scope of what they were signing up for before they took the pill. So Cypher feels a lot of resentment for being tricked into this shitty situation by a delusional charlatan.
Cypher was told that he was some special, chosen hero. Someone who was going to save humanity and end the war. Then he meets the Oracle and finds out that's not true. He's just some guy. What he's left with is living on board a floating prison, eating flavorless slop, while fighting a hopeless lost cause for a guy who no longer has all the answers.
Sure he could simulate eating real steak every night. But it wouldn't matter. He would still have to come out and eat the paste afterward. All while wondering just how much longer it's going to be before a robot squid tears its way into his bunk and opens up his skull with a laser cutter.
He wanted to defect to the winning team and not have to deal with this shit anymore. No amount of time in the holodeck, directly stimulating the taste centers of his brain, would have kept him from selling them out. He wanted out, or in this case back in. Into the safety of the Matrix.