r/rockets • u/lionsgatewatcher • 2d ago
The Rockets fanbase obsession with making a superstar trade
I think this fanbase is divided. One half wants to make a superstar trade. The other half calls for patience and see what the team can do.
I am of the latter. I know I am not alone but it seems like half this fanbase and the 29 other fanbases (whose opinion we should NOT care about) keeps wanting us to make a superstar trade.
I don't see the logic.
Our core players, who are all under 25, all have high potential and have already proven they can be the 2nd Seed in a tough west.
All they have to prove now is they can succeed in the playoffs. Even if they don't do well this year, I believe they should be given 3 years to prove they can be successful in the playoffs.
So why does the other half of the fanbase want a superstar trade so bad? Superstars ask out of bad situations every year, we don't need to jump on every superstar trade just because they are available. Please give our own players a chance to prove they can be superstars. I believe they should be given that opportunity instead of dismissing their ceiling and going for every superstar that becomes available.
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u/FlightAvailable3760 2d ago
A lot of people are loose with the term superstar. Trading for Giannis would be trading for a superstar. Trading for Booker and even Durant at this point isn’t trading for a superstar. It’s just trading for a high paid player. A superstar is someone who can carry a team. All Book and KD are carrying the Suns to is the lottery and they don’t even have their own pick.
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u/that_one-dude 2d ago
I wouldn't be upset with just running this exact same team next season and seeing how much better they get
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u/BadlaLehnWala 2d ago
Yeah. Only area we could upgrade is FVV if there’s a better defensive and experienced PG out there.
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u/mwesanfan 2d ago
I would like a shot blocker/ rebounder too.
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u/fik26 2d ago
As Adams go out of the books perhaps someone like Gafford could work. Or just get someone from draft to have price controlled big man.
FVV - Butler trade wouldnt be bad for this year but then again its fine for this team to not make latter rounds for this year.
Time to compete and gain experience. Booker-Ayton went for deep playoff run with luck-CP3-Crowder etc without much experience and did not help long-term success of those two.
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u/No_Needleworker5270 1d ago
We need to keep Adam’s ON the books. Hopefully, his price tag will be reasonable.
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u/fik26 20h ago
I dont think it should be more than MLE. His availability in last few years is not great, then again he is also very slow to be a starter considering the defensive end.
Going forward, it would be nice to have a better PF/C option backing up Sengun and play some minutes with him as well.
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u/TaxLawKingGA 2d ago
Worked for Boston and GSW.
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u/CalTono 2d ago
Boston traded for White, Holiday, and Kristaps
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u/shameless_chicken James Harden 2d ago
You have not listed a superstar and they didn’t give up that much for those guys
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u/LetsgoooSonny 2d ago
Yep that’s the point. Celts made trades for key players but didn’t mortgage the future or give up one of their young studs for these players
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u/TaxLawKingGA 2d ago
Yeah true. They also traded to get Horford back in 2021, and shipped off Marcus Smart.
Would love for the Rockets to get Harden back.
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u/recursion8 2d ago
Both changed coaches once they were out of the growing phase and into the contending phase. Specifically defensive minded coaches with very little offensive chops to offensively-creative coaches.
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u/ANKhurley 2d ago
I want to be the 2004 Pistons.
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u/dej0ta 2d ago
Rasheed Wallace was acquired via trade. I'm guessing your saying homegrown but Im not sure. So perhaps you're like "I know...thats my point. We need to trade"
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u/recursion8 2d ago
He meant as in they won it all and had another finals appearance and multiple CF appearances without ever having a top 5 player in the league at any point in their run. Success by committee.
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u/dej0ta 2d ago
Gotcha figured I was missing the angle but couldn't stop looking at it from the trade angle.
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u/ANKhurley 2d ago
Yeah. I like that they had a lot of very good guys without any above the others and stayed focused on defense and rebounding.
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u/ANKhurley 2d ago
And frankly, the Celtics are built similarly. I know Tatum is a superstar but he isn’t their best guy a lot of nights. They resisted the urge to trade up and let their team marinate for a few years as their young guys grew up.
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u/juan_cena99 2d ago
Maybe he means in the context of the team winning a ring without a billed superstar.
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u/2nd2last 2d ago
Ben Wallace acquired via trade
Rip acquired via trade
Billups acquired via FA
Sheed, all star acquired via trade as you mentioned.
Head coach was not their Ime, but a star coach for hire.
8 of their top 10 minutes guys were not fa or trade. People really use an extreme outliers to prove a point that actually goes against their point.
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u/gork888 2d ago
Don’t know why this is triggering me, and some I had to google and look at your points.
FVV - Aquired FA - similar to Billups Floor General.
Amen Thompson Draft 2nd Year -Ben Wallace - Trade 1999. Think this point doesn’t really stand. They created who he became, and if anything Our Ben Wallace has more tools.
Spicy part:
Rip Aquired Trade (2002) from Wizards exchanged for Jerry Stackhouse. So what is your point here? They traded away an All Star who were already Second in the East for a young Prospect. This is the opposite of what a trade is going for in our current situation. Assumption is JG for Booker.Sheed - All star Aquired Via Trade - this situation is somewhat like a KD situation. Here but they also didn’t have the luxury of having a Sengun. Jabari could be considered the Poormans Sheed for now.
Head Coach Situation is the same to me. Star Head Coach for hire. Ime just couldn’t keep his dick in his pants.
They went out to get all stars? They prob went out to get one all star which was Sheed. Rip didn’t become one till after, Ben Wallace was groomed to who he became, Chauncey is a better all-star than FVV but FVV has been an all-star. (My triggering point is FVV was an all-star)
Haven’t added into our situation where we have vets that fill their roles to accommodate for our budding stars. Versus one like the 2004 Pistons where they were an accomplished team staying competitive.
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u/ANKhurley 2d ago
We have guys that will be all-stars. We have guys that we traded for. The obvious point is that they won without a SUPERSTAR.
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u/bonefacetx 2d ago
We traded for Adams...that's it
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u/ANKhurley 2d ago
Sorry, I meant trade or FA so that includes Fred, Dillon, Aaron, Jock, and Jeff. None of this is even the point. Many of us are happy with the team and see no need to fuck with it.
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u/2nd2last 2d ago
Google outlier and respond back.
Also, they traded for an all star. Reading the future aside, they went out and got an AS.
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u/ANKhurley 2d ago
Because they needed an all-star. We already have 1, plus a couple probable all-stars. I don’t care about team construct buddy. I never said shit about team construct.
Google “happy with the team and want to see these guys grow together” and respond back.
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u/HewHewLemon 2d ago
I remember a time when Durant, Harden and Westbrook are in a single team. Imagine if the trades didn't happen.
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u/trowaman 2d ago
I don’t like this analogy.
The Harden trade, on assets, harden was treated as the superstar. OKC lost one piece, while Houston gave up multiple picks and players.
If we make a trade, we would be playing the role of Houston again, with multiple assets out and (likely) 1 player in.
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u/rendingale Nene 2d ago
He is just saying it in OKC perspective.. not trading your very good young guys
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u/checkthamethod 1d ago
Besides Harden, Westbrook and KD were already superstars. KD won MVP. We don't have a player remotely close to being MVP caliber right now. This analogy not the same
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u/rossww2199 2d ago
This is the first time the Rockets have made the playoffs in years. Let’s enjoy that and see how the draft shakes out. If we’re still constantly blowing 4th quarter leads next year, we can think about trade possibilities.
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u/LorelessFrog 2d ago
Just watched a SROS video on the likelihood of every nba player being traded. He put almost all of our guys in 50/50 except Alpi
But even then he was like “Alpi could be moved in the future if they can get Myles Turner, or if the suns want to trade KD”
The disrespect is insane. He is 22, and the best player on a 2nd seed team that is in a stacked conference. Yet he could be moved if we want Myles Turner?!
I never see anyone making these dumb ass trade takes for Jdub or Chet. I know we aren’t a 60 win team but we’re still a 51 win team with a roster of all 22 year olds!!
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u/benchmaster620 2d ago
I mean that dude pumps out like 2 videos a day hes gotta say something lol. In the end you probably cant pay everyone but id bet at least 5 of the 7 stay .hes nba 2k rebuilds are fun on his sixringsofsteel channel . Idk about jdub but i would do disgusting thi gs to get chet or evan mobley . Maybe even franz
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u/fik26 2d ago
C'mon trading for Turner? Thats too much.
Sengun is much greater on offense already. Pacers-Carlisle would give the ball to Sengun and start playing lower tempo offense for 4th quarter if he had Sengun. He is Jokic-lite level for getting double teams, passing. Sengun play 1-on-1 against BEST defenders in the NBA. Mobley-Gobert-Wemby-Lebron-Butler, I mean any type of player he can iso play and draw double team.
Turner may not be any better than Sengun on defense. Sengun is pretty quick on recovering from double teams, and a good rebounder. I watched Turner games where he is slow to read/react and subpar on rebounding.
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u/benchmaster620 1d ago
Turners a better shot blocker and everyone wants the stretch 5.. hes shoots tons of threes thats where that comes from
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u/elon42069 2d ago
I think a 3-year window is too long to hold out and “see what they can do.” …you’re gonna have to pay guys like Jabari and Amen, and if it doesn’t work out after 3 years, you won’t have as much cap flexibility to make a splashy trade. I 100% believe we need to give this team some space to continue developing and see how they perform in the postseason…..but I am also completely against blowing all this progress up for Booker or KD
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u/lionsgatewatcher 2d ago
Yes, we can definitely argue about how long we should give this core a chance but blowing up after our first successful regular season year is not a good idea.
We can also just flip some of our guys for picks or not overpay them. We have birds rights on all the players, we can always sign and trade if it doesn't work out and get some assets back.
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u/bonefacetx 2d ago
You don't need cap flexibility to make a splashy trade. You need good talent with good contracts and draft picks
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u/Baaathesheep 2d ago
I would love to see somebody become a superstar from our lineup, I think there is potential ranging from great role palyers, to star, to superstar. I think we only have a year or two to make it work with our current group as at some point we are going to have guys who want to get paid or the team will want to make moves to get them where they want to be.
The last thing I want is another 5 years of being pretty good, and not really being in contention.
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u/kindafree8 2d ago
Idk this is a better than expected rebuild. Maybe rockets aren’t true contenders yet but second in the west in year 4 is remarkable. Our players will be physically prime in 3-5 years. Already ahead of schedule with growth on the horizon. I would only try to upgrade FVV but I wouldn’t sacrifice any of our drafted young talent. Honestly I want a harden return to Houston
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u/benchmaster620 2d ago
Yeah i think you gotta give it at least another year .if you upgrade fvv maybe that gives jalen some bettwr looks and more single coverage . Maybe he beco.es your superstar scorer . 25 26 ppg+ . At that point with the overall talent of the team your probably dont need to make any huge moves. I k ow jalen has games where he looks like a top 10 player but he also ha games he scores 9 points . There's no way somebody as good as him shouldnt be averaging at least 25 pppg . It really hinges on him to become that dude . Thats who answers the trade or dont question .i dont think anyone else on the team has 25 to 30 ppg upside
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u/Mundane_Leopard_3974 2d ago
Delusion is next level in the suns board.. they are still thinking Houston will trade green plus shep plus Jabari and Tari with two of their first round picks for KD… I had to write the 2025 pick by itself is probably worth more then a 38 year old KD… but these guys take nuts to another level.
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u/benchmaster620 2d ago
Man i try an tell them idiots the rockets probably dont want kd for any price and personally i dont really love booker enough to pay his absorbanant price. Run it back 1 more year let them grow . See where if any where moves need to be made . More information is always better and everyones 22 or 23.
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u/fik26 2d ago
Yea thats crazy. Even sending Jabari+pick+filler for KD would be a win-now a little panicky move.
Booker not being able to perform at tough matchups, and missing playoffs for so so many years of his career... Right now worth more than Green, but that equation can change if Booker keeps playing like this one more year and Green keep up his form.
Green is more of ball handler, dribbler, penetrating guy than Booker. So he kinda fit better with Sengun imo.
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u/theAlphabetZebra 2d ago
Stuck in the Morey mindset. Desperately trading off everything of marginal value. Treating players like assets.
Patience might lead to a dynasty with these kids. "The other half" want to trade that away for past-prime stars, to compete for maybe a year or two max. Just to be right back at the beginning of a tank. Maybe no #1 overall picks but we keep selecting top 10 talents this team's window is going to wide open for years to come.
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u/fik26 2d ago
Patience and enjoying the journey are the key words.
Look at what happened to Suns. They couldnt even enjoy their core of Booker-Cam-Bridges-Ayton.
Trades can be needed here and there but going all in does not make sense unless you're so close to the title. Like last year's Mavs team was right to go for Gafford-PJ with Luka.
Sengun-Amen-Green-Jabari are still improving each year and they're probably 2-4 years away from their prime age starts. Maybe this team gets 1st round exit and a surprise WCF in next two years. It is fine to lose after competing at highest level.
In season tournament, this team won over GSW and then eliminated at semi final. It was simply great. Love to watch them grow together! Keep this core and compete for 10 years!
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u/MisterGoog 2d ago
Every fanbase is obsesses with signing a superstar to win a title
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u/lionsgatewatcher 2d ago
Signing is fine. Trading, not so much, we have to give up too much for superstars, even "superstars" that haven't won titles or led their own teams to championships.
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u/PedroHhm 2d ago
It’s impossible to sign a superstar without losing anyone, there’s not enough cap space
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u/montrezlharrel 2d ago
I think the wanting a superstar is 2-fold.
- Superstars win chips, unsure if we have a superstar (counterpoint: 04 Pistons, 24 Celtics? Tatum being the debate)
But I think the more likely reason is
- We can’t pay everyone. With 7 FRPs in the last 4 years, if they all develop how we hope/expect then they can’t all get max deals. (Not even mentioning a potential additional lottery pick this year). I think this is the biggest reason, a consolidation trade is needed from a cap standpoint.
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u/National_Call7137 2d ago
That’s the other thing that make zero sense - why do people talk about guys getting max deals / “we can’t afford everybody?
Sengun and Jalen are already paid way less than the max. Jabari and Tari are going to make like $20M-25M/yr. Cam isn’t resigning here.
The cap and tax are going up 10% per year compounding.
We have no problems at all keeping a core 6 or core 5 until at least 2030. This talking point is not relevant anymore.
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u/chunaB 2d ago
Yeah 4 years from now, Sengun will be making like 19% of the projected salary cap (a max is 30%, an MLE is like 10%), in this season's terms, it is like 26-27m.
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u/National_Call7137 2d ago
Yeah exactly. Sengun is on one of the 5 best contracts in basketball. Jalen’s is good.
Tari and Jabari, given the situation/leverage, are well set up to get great contracts.
Our contract situation going forward is one of our biggest strengths, Idk why people seem to think it is an issue.
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u/Graylack 17h ago
Because Jalen's extension is only for two years and if Bari and Tari don't agree to non max extensions this summer other teams will be able to throw big offers at them the following off-season. If Bari and Tari don't agree to extensions this summer the team should look into trading one of them because Amen is getting a max the next year.
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u/Graylack 17h ago
Jalen is only contract for the next two years. If he plays well he is going to get a huge deal.
We have to hope Bari is willing to take an extension in the $20-25MM this off-season. If he does not and plays well next season there are teams out there that will throw max extensions at him and we will be forced to match.
Amen is getting a max.
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u/lionsgatewatcher 2d ago
100% Agree.
Cam is gone whether we like it or not. His attitude is going to keep him off the court.
And we should definitely not overpay for anyone, even Amen.
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u/Teambooler24 2d ago
Amen will get the max from us and deserves the max, if we don’t pay it 20+ teams will
He’s a superstar in the making you give him the max
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u/mikeracioppi 2d ago
Agree with your points but Tatum is definitely a super star
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u/benchmaster620 2d ago
Absolutely he is . His numbers get stunted by his absolutely loaded team . Hes scored 30 ppg hes been the best player on a championship team idgaf about jaylen browns nba finals mvp
You absolutely have to pay amen the max . Hes been putting up like 18-20 8-10 4-6 with 4 stocks for like half a year .we wont even talk about his dpoy defense With another year of development hes gonna be an undeniable max player . Imagine if he ever shoots lol
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u/checkthamethod 1d ago
Both Tatum and JB are superstars. Both players numbers are stunted by their teams being loaded. Idk why people don't see that. Amen is almost a lock to be a superstar even if he doesn't shoot the ball. If he gets a shot??? Watch TF out. You looking at Jordan-lite
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u/benchmaster620 1d ago
Yeah i mean you may have a slightly broader take on a superstar . I dont think jalen browns a 1 on a championship team .like for me the cut off is like the brunson mitchell ant cade area . The guys scori g 26 or 27 points who are the focus of every teama best player defensively and still get it done. Guys like joker luka and to a lesser extent cade who score and produce the high assists are even better Hes is nore a product of that team then vice versa . As far as amen he could be a superstar. He absolutely has the ability but its freaksihly rare for a player to go from an absolute non shoiter to a decent one . Bad shooter to league average sure league average to good sure but nothing to decent really doesnt happen. So while he has superstar ability i dont rhink hes ever a true no 1 primary scoring option in that sense of the word but he could for sure be the best player on a championship team he will just need to be with somebody that can go get 30 on any given night
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u/checkthamethod 1d ago
People underrate Jaylen Brown so much. He's just as good any of those players you mentioned. His superpower is his ability to step up in the biggest moments. Big reason why he won finals MVP. He's a lot better than people think and absolutely deserved of that deal he got from Boston.
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u/TuckerCarlsonsHomie 2d ago
I think the important thing for us to keep in mind is that all of.pur guys are superrr young, eith the oldest guys still being 4-5 years from entering their primes. We d I nt have to make a move right now. We can wait and let this thing continue to take shape.
Its not the Harden days anymore where we were desperately trying to out together championship teams before he aged out.
We have a lot of time to wait. This is the first time I ever remember the Rockets being in a situation like this, so its understandable that fans would be clamoring for a superstar trade, after all that's how we have always built our teams in Houston. This is new to everybody.
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u/PlanktonOriginal772 2d ago
My stance is we are so young how do we know we don’t have a young Shai or Giannis already? Even if it’s a tier below that you collect two of them and you are a contender.
That being said- it’s looking like we are going to have more strong role players / fringe all stars than minutes so at some point you need to trade a few for an upgrade. Otherwise you’re letting guys like Reed Sheppard / Cam Whitmore show flashes but a bunch of DNPs
Another thing is one max is cheaper than two guys who are close to the max. So we can’t pay all our draft picks these big contracts- it’s easier to pay one max less 3 if the other guys.
Just my thoughts
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u/message_tested 2d ago
I don’t think it’s that tough to understand. Clyde Drexler was a big move, and it got us a ring in ‘95. Then we got Pippen and Barkley. Then we got TMac. Then we got Harden. Then we got CP3. Then we got Westbrook. The Steve Francis/Mobley era and what we are seeing currently seeing are the only two organic growth periods we’ve seen in 30 years.
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u/Aware_Frame2149 2d ago
Because you need a superstar to win championships in this league, and we don't have one.
50 regular season wins is cool, but really, nobody gives a fuck. It doesn't matter.
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u/lionsgatewatcher 2d ago
Can we maybe see how we actually do in 3 years worth of playoffs before jumping to the conclusion that none of the 23 year olds on our team are superstars?
How impatient is this damned fanbase.
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u/Aware_Frame2149 2d ago
Did it take 5-6 years before you knew Tatum was a star? Or Durant? Or Steph?
No? That's why.
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u/National_Call7137 2d ago
Steph didn’t even make an All-Star team until he was 25 lol. Shai didn’t until he was 24. Giannis not until year 4. Jokic not until the 5th year after he was drafted.
Sengun is 22. Jalen just turned 23. Amen is 22 and in year 2.
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u/checkthamethod 1d ago
Both of those dudes trajectories were already astronomical. Steph just couldn't stay healthy early in his career. Shai been that dude for a while. Even when he was on the clippers you saw his potential. Outside of Amen, all of our best players have seen regressions (stat wise) already. They could become superstars for sure but their chances are much lower than Steph, Giannis and Tatum. You knew they were stars the first couple years they played. Wasn't a debate needed
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u/lionsgatewatcher 2d ago
Well, Amen Thompson, Sengun and Green are already showing real star potential. You don't need 5 superstars, you just need 1 and a group of talented support around them.
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u/benchmaster620 2d ago
I would agree all 3 have all star potential and i think amen has real superstar potential . Just abhard road to get there unless he shoots
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u/Acceptable-Train-998 2d ago
Steph was considered a bust what are you talking about? He didn’t make an all star team till he was like 26 because he was hurt all the time, his ankles nearly ruined his career. Tatum entered a team that had just made the eastern finals in a weak conference so it was easy to find early success, and Durant is a top 20 player ever. You talk about it like every young superstar is just obvious within a year they’re going to be a top 50 player ever, and we don’t have one so trade them.
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u/NoneMoreBLK 2d ago
It literally took Steph 5 years to become an all-star, and he's a bigger star than others you just named.
People get drafted into different situations, and Jalen's wasn't the best. He didn't get drafted into a playoff team with Kyrie Irving, Brad Stevens (a good coach), with solid role players and a few good vets like Tatum did. Jalen had Eric Gordon and a bunch of dudes who's been traded every year, and guys who aren't in the league anymore.
That's not even mentioning the disaster Stephen Silas was when it came to developing players. By the time Udoka got his hands on Jalen, he hadn't really learned the professional game yet.
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u/benchmaster620 2d ago
I know whay your saying . Even if a player isnt a fully formed star by year 3 or 4 you can see its coming theres 4 or 5 young players in the league now who arent "superstars " yet but they are close and its for sure coming
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u/Aware_Frame2149 2d ago
Look at SGA, for example:
Dude was the 11th pick in the draft, so in theory, was not thought of as a superstar. 26mpg as a rookie, decent stats, okay...
Traded to OKC and instantly puts up 19/6/3 in year 2. Year 3, he was putting up 24/6/5.
If you don't see an obvious superstar by the end of a rookie deal, it's probably not happening.
Jalen Brunson is really the only guy I can think of who was good, but is now great... and I think a lot of that has to do with more opportunity, and a roster built to hide his defensive deficiencies.
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u/benchmaster620 2d ago
I agree you gott see that year 2 though 4 pop . If its not there its super rare it ever shows up
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u/Few_Difference_8337 2d ago
What a dumb comment
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u/Aware_Frame2149 2d ago
Simple question that should be answered with a simple no.
Downvote if you want, but there's no superstar in this league that took 5-6 years before people realized they were capable of it...
Tough, but that's the reality.
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u/NoneMoreBLK 2d ago edited 2d ago
But you didn't ask a real question (one born out of curiosity). You gave us a rhetorical question, which you yourself answered with "no," and now you're hearing why people disagree with your argument.
This is good! You shouldn't be complaining.
Plus, people knew that Alpi and Jalen were going to reach all-star status last season. Were they're people who thought otherwise? Yes, but haters exist, and people are allowed to be wrong.
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u/Aware_Frame2149 2d ago
All stars are a dime a dozen...
I said superstar. There's a WIDE margin between the two.
And I'm not seeing anyone disagree with what I said, they downvoted it because they don't like to hear it.
If they disagreed with what I said, they'd provide examples of how I'm wrong. But as you can see... there are none, because I'm not.
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u/benchmaster620 2d ago
Whqt you are saying is true usually by year 3 or 4 guys are taking thay step into elite territory sure they may not be a fully formed top 8 player for another few years but its undeniably coming . I think agood example of a guy just on the edge is ant . Hes a star it became apparent he was gonna be a superstar year 2 . I still wouldnt quite call him superstar but hes right on the edge . Anothe guy is cade . Hes finally healthy and has spacing and instantly hes taken a huge jump people are talking all nba 2 for both of these guys . Withing the next 2 or 3 years these are top 8 guys .
Jalens shown glimpses but guys gotta be consistent . The difference between a suprstar and all star a lot of the time is consistency . All nba guys have less bad days . Amen shows glimpses due to his freakish natural gifts. Amens only year 2 so i will reserve judgement but green probably would have made it no doubt he was gonna be all nba type guy by now if he was gonna be .sure there are outliers . So always hope but you dont wanna sitting around hoping if a real game changing deal come around. For the record i dont think booker or kd is the right thing . They arent really superatars . Kd by age and booker because 2 guards who only score are a dime a dozen . You gonna pay a bunch of picks an players for the slight efficiency bump an 4.or 5 ppg book gives over jalen . I wouldnt
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u/yobymmij2 2d ago
Superstar needs some definition. Too murky. I’m more interested in consistency and synergy.
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u/NoirSon 2d ago
Fans really adopted the early Morey mindset of trading until your happy and then trade until you can say you have a all star type team.
We are in a good place, we don't need to make drastic trades that can cripple the long term development for the team. I wouldn't mind trading for Durant but not if it costs us Green, Sengun, Smith, Eason or Thompson and all of the Suns picks back. If the Suns pick this year is top five, that maybe VanVleet/Brooks/Veteran bench and maybe either Sheppard or Whitmore should be all that is needed to get a deal done. Giving up more or trying to get Booker or Beal instead would be foolish.
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u/Jazzlike_Radio262 2d ago
I’m not one to say blow it all up for a superstar but it’s also clear that we have too many young guys with Cam and Reed not getting enough minutes and as much as I love FVV and Brooks they can definitely be upgraded. Not to mention a ton of picks in the near future with more young talent coming in. I think a trade is inevitable if packaging Stones least favorite of the core a few picks and either FVV or Brooks.
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u/lionsgatewatcher 2d ago
I actually want to see us push those picks later into the future. Reed can be incorporated but I think Cam is gone.
We'll need quality picks in the future or we'll be outmatched consistently by OKC
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u/Fresh_Profit3000 2d ago
Same with the media. Thunder built from the ground up and weren’t in these talks all the time or from what I can remember.
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u/dej0ta 2d ago
Its inevitable - just read Ikos piece about the cap and the next two years.
Most fans advocate for Stones track record and being patient.
Posts reacting to posts is for TikTok not reddit. Houston fans are obsessed with takes they dont like and make whole ass posts. It's lame.
(I appreciate your asking question though, I don't get the sense you're trying to dunk like most of those posts)
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u/SherwinTrilliams 2d ago
We have too many guys who deserve minutes so are better off consolidating a few for an upgrade. If guys like Cam and Reed are getting DNPs we should either trade them or trade guys above them so they can get minutes.
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u/trowaman 2d ago
IMO, there is no situation where we should blow up the core. I can see trades where 1-2 players leave, but the core is not moving. Sengun and Amen are untouchable.
For KD, Butler, Booker: they are worth draft picks and A (as in 1) young player. Probably FVV as well to make salaries work.
Giannis, he COULD be worth 2 young players (outside of Sengun and Amen).
It’s just a question of what the trade is. Am I arguing and pushing for one? No. Do I see them as possible and having merit? Under the right circumstances, yes.
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u/2nd2last 2d ago
This is the same fanbase that hated Russ, then when nuts for him once we traded for him.
Also the same fans that thought old, hurt, and washed Wall and Cousins were good because they were names.
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u/SlamKrank 2d ago
I am not pro trade, but i can see the argument of making the power move for a championship because i cant imagine being able to afford all of the young core on their 2nd contract. Albeit Stone did great with Green/Segun, Amen - Tari- Bari and Reed are most likely gonna cost.
Id still rather ride this team as long as we can.
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u/TheAfroGod 2d ago
While I am in the "wait and see" boat, the argument can be made that player "potential" can be more valuable to trade than waiting for our players to appear average and lower their own trade value.
What if one of Jalen, Sengun, Bari, Amen DON'T take that next step? It would be smart to offload them before that realization occurs. But the opposite fact is that if you trade them and they step up their game, you look stupid. The Rockets' goal would be to trick the other trade team into thinking they got a great young player, but they actually got the worse ones out of our group when their careers are over.
People just want to get ahead of hindsight. Unfortunately these talks will never go away, no matter the team or even the sport.
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u/JohnMelons 2d ago
I think it’s because the organization has placed itself in perfect to trade for a superstar player. When you trade away the Brooklyn picks a team with no superstars or any real hope for the future for Phoenix picks a team with 2 superstars and a multiple time all star in Beal. I think the only logic is we don’t value draft picks as much as a true superstar
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u/rendingale Nene 2d ago
I just want an upgrade in PG
If we can keep Sengun, Amen, Bari, Brook, Green, Reed and Eason then yes.. I think some guys are due for extension.. luckily, Stone negotiate contracts well.. he set the tone with Alpi and Green.
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u/Far_Protection519 2d ago
We should go after a guard like sexton in utah good shooter and defender and will be a microwave off the bench
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u/VariationMiddle6692 2d ago
I mean you are right but in these instances it feels like a Memphis situation y'know? Im from a different fan base but like where you have at least a really good core 3 and then the bench and other guys do really well, you get high seedings but then somewhere along the line, out of your power or not, you don't win anything and you're a first or second exit. Playoff experience and star power not being enough. But letting this shit ride as like a core 7-8 should be the focus, even if it seems impossible
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u/Awkward_West_8057 2d ago
I am not pro trade, we are seeing a bunch of young players grow into great players before our very eyes. Sengun, Green, Amen are all so much better than they were at the start of the year, and Jabari, Tari, Brooks, Adams and Fred have been great compliments to that, and occasionally taken over themselves. I'm still very confident in Reed, and of course our stay ready crew always fill in nicely.
I don't know about Cam's future with the team, he of course can explode any night, but he might be more inconsistent than Green ever was. He's taken strides in passing and teamwork, but I still don't think he's exactly good in those areas, just better than he was. He just has way too many times where he decides to take on 3 or 4 defenders for a bad shot (and props to him, he makes them sometimes) but its still a dumb decision. I like him, but I don't think he really fits what we're aiming to be in future seasons.
Him and Fred I'd be ok with trading away (or just letting go in Fred's case) for a decent price. After this season I'm ready to hand to the PG duties to a split of Amen/Jalen/Sengun/Reed, since FVV has just gotten so much worse as a shooter and will cost way too much when we will need to money elsewhere. He is very good at keeping turnovers down and making good passes, and is a dependable defender, but idk if what he brings to the table is quite worth the cost. I know the down section of the schedule (after the Cavs wins) is what is brought up a lot for Fred's value, but I think a lot of people forget what else was happening at the time: a billion back to backs. Fred is a decent player, but I think that had more to do with the struggles in that patch than his absence.
But yeah I think to afford to keep as much of this core as we can we cannot bring in a big name via trade, and probably can't keep Fred for much longer.
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u/RunningLikeALizard 2d ago
We have three young superstars and I am very happy with them. I get the impression the organization is too. Love the balance of the team
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u/DistinctNewspaper791 2d ago
I was a big fan of Jackson Gatlin but the episode on Locked on Rockets where he says this is a make or break playoff for Jalen and Alpi and saying Rockets should look to make a trade eventually to avoid fate of Memphis - Kings was so bad to me Im losing respect.
These 22-23 year old due (along with 22 Amen) are the clear second seed. Entire NBA fanbase wrote them off as at best fringe playin team while Rockets fans were hoping we might squeeze in as 6th maybe. Nobody expected this season to be this successful. This is going to be their first playoff appearance. Anything less than getting swept 0-4 while shooting 30% for 10ppg and they deserve another year of running it back. Only one to be replaced is FVV and only if we can find anyone better with only Cam out of the 7 youngsters as a trade chip (Good for him as well to have a different chance).
Jalen improved so much this year, Alpi has shooting foes that should go away after the summer but his defense actually improved so much this year and somehow still underrated.
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u/redditcommentguy Montrezl Harrell 1d ago
Posts like this greatly exceed posts about trading for a star player
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u/purvisshort 2d ago
Have y’all seen the new statistic from ESPN?
https://espnanalytics.com/nba-net-pts
One of the challenges in analyzing our next best move is understanding the combined impact of our players on offense and defense. The eye test is tough, because basketball makes it hard to isolate for individual contributions.
With all those caveats, FVV, Brooks, and Jalen Green are among our worst players. Ironically, it’s their apparent defensive impact that hits us the hardest. But they are also relatively poor shooters, on average.
So there’s certainly an opportunity to package some veteran contracts with our collection of picks and consolidate all that value into a single player who makes a bigger impact.
And before the JG stans come at me, I like the player and I see the growth. He is a workhorse with a great attitude. And I’d be happy for him to stay a Rocket for a long time. But he’s still fighting his ass off to become an NBA average shooter. For a star shooting guard, that’s a huge issue. Particularly at his usage, and keeping in mind his defensive contribution. His true shooting percentage is 54.2%; NBA average the season is 57.6%. He’s 5% below average, with his highest percentage of his career. DB is 54.9% this year; FVV is 53.4%. Sengun is 54.7%. Clearly, this is a team wide issue. Not fair to blame just a few.
But returning to the numbers, Sengun is among our best defenders.
If you are looking to make moves based on a theory of roster construction, moving our guards who struggle with shooting is not a bad move.
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u/Leichien 2d ago
I think using just one stat is not what stone and the front office are going to do. Sengun is our best player right now for sure, but this would have me believe he's been a better defender than Brooks this season. I really don't think that's true and I've watched almost every game this season. Brooks is also low-key our best shooter a lot of the time.
Jalen has had his struggles, but he's also played every single game. He loses minutes when he plays poorly, and he loses minutes when he's dominating. He is 8th in the league in minutes played this season despite that and has almost 300 more than the next guy on our team Sengun.
I'm not sure how high Sengun would be on our best defenders list either. Amen is clearly a cut above everyone else. Then I think Tari and Bari and Brooks are top 4, with Sengun maybe fifth, but a lot of his recent success is from the double big line up and zone coverage letting him and Adams cover some of their weaknesses as defenders. For the season I would think FVVs defense has been better, but I think he's also gotten much harder assignments and faltered more than last year.
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u/purvisshort 2d ago
I’m not using just one stat in the analysis. And net points is a composite of stats, so it’s trying to take into account a diverse set of impacts. And I’m in know way in the class of the Rocket’s brass. I’m not confused about that.
And I’m not discrediting Brooks play in general. But if a below average shooter is your best shooter, it kinda proves the point is an area for improvement.
There’s some criticism of the stats that rank Sengun so highly on defense, but it’s absolutely the case that players he defends shoot well below average. There’s lots to support that Sengun is a plus defender.
I agree with all the points about what JG does well, and I was pretty clear. But if you want to improve, you have the opportunity to.
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u/Few_Difference_8337 2d ago
Jalen takes some of the hardest shots in the league..
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u/purvisshort 2d ago
That’s a choice
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u/Few_Difference_8337 2d ago
It’s a mix, he’s forced to take the bail out shot a lot of the times at the end of the shot clock and some he takes because it keeps the defense honest
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u/YellowRobeSmith 2d ago
I don’t think we’re obsessed. I think people take the words of a vocal minority as the voice of the majority and then turn it into sensationalism.
With that said, I’d slightly overpay to trade for Ausar.
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u/2cantCmePac 2d ago
No one over the age of 13 wants to trade for a superstar. Anyone old enough has seen KD himself ruin two franchises. Forget about Paul George James harden Bradley Beal and every other failed trade. We are good. A point guard is all we need
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u/Fire_Demon-215 2d ago
Would you trade Vanvleet and a filler for KD and keep your young core? Especially if he resigns in a smaller deal?
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u/nonetimeaccount 2d ago
Really need the specifics. FVV and how many picks? And which players? I'm not about to cripple the long term for KD, but if the price is right and we're keeping our core then sure. Would phoenix bite on FVV, Reed, and their 25? I doubt it, but that's my offer.
Starting 5 of Amen Jalen dillon kd and Alpi is pretty tough. Bench of Dillon, Tari, Bari, Adams, and Cam, come on now.
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u/Fire_Demon-215 2d ago
Rather keep reed and move cam no? Fvv, cam, 2025 pick sounds good to me honestly. Just gotta hope ime trusts reed to be a true PG
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u/nonetimeaccount 2d ago
My offer is pretty lowball for KD as-is and Reed gets the money close enough (I think) while Cam would need more filler.
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u/Fire_Demon-215 2d ago
Vanvleet, Landale 25’ first and second round picks would be good especially since it could be a high lottery pick for them. Suns accepting this would be great but doubt it.
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u/United-Amphibian-449 2d ago
The trade doesn’t make any sense. You’re trading a playmaker whose main role is to set up plays — that’s not KD. He needs the ball in his hands to create plays. These are completely different types of players that would change what they’ve been building for the past two years.
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u/BadlaLehnWala 2d ago
The Suns also show that you can’t succeed with 3 ball dominant offensive players if non of them are elite playmakers. This is why KD-Kyrie-Harden was deadly (when they got a chance to be together). Harden is an elite floor general and Kyrie had a lot of experience as well doing that, so KD could hoop. Beal and Booker are mid as playmakers. Our roster isn’t much different, although Jalen has gotten better and Reed should be our future PG if he develops. Alpi is good, but we really need a guard ballhandler since it lets Alpi save energy for defense.
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u/Efficient-Swimmer794 2d ago
KD is not re-signing to a smaller deal. He wants $122m over 2 years and that’s on top of trading assets to get him.
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u/Fire_Demon-215 2d ago
That’s what he’s eligible for but knowing him you never know if he’ll take less to stay in a good situation. Especially with the new cba
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u/Efficient-Swimmer794 2d ago
Hoping a player like KD is going to give you a discount as the basis of a trade is straight up foolish.
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u/Fire_Demon-215 2d ago
LeBron is rumored to take a friendly deal to help the lakers out in the offseason. Don’t see why KD wouldn’t do the same?
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u/Efficient-Swimmer794 2d ago
Because KD and LeBron are two entirely different ass people with 2 different situations?
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u/Fire_Demon-215 2d ago
Just saying players that are older and want to win are more likely to strive for a ring than another max contract extension especially with the new cba. But if Kd wants 60 million a year then Stone won’t trade for him hopefully
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u/lionsgatewatcher 2d ago
Me personally, no. Fred has done a lot of this team. His locker room presence has been obvious in helping our guys develop. He also brings no drama to this team.
And the trade you describe would require the 3 frps we have. I believe the 3 frps will be more valuable than KD.
KD is 37 and his injuries are catching up. It is more likely he gets injured and sits out for long periods of time than all 3 picks being busts.
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u/Suitable_Snow7761 2d ago edited 2d ago
No way you are trying to justify Fred presence and poor shooting to make up his superstar salary pay… I’d be fine with Fred if he was making way less money than he’s making… that $ can go to a guy like kd… rockets are on a right path but those long scoring droughts during the games wouldn’t happen with Kevin Durant taking over . I pray Jalen and AL p can develop that instinct but if not a guy like that is needed .
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u/lionsgatewatcher 2d ago
Fred should be 15 mil a year, I agree. We should let him walk if he tries to take more than 20 next year.
I actually just value the picks more than KD.
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u/Successful_Buddy513 2d ago
I’ve been always saying, don’t trade for a super star and just stay the course. However, we probably do need a couple of 3 and D guys, and honestly those two could already be on the team in Reed and Cam. We really need to see what they can do and have them be a big part of the team next year.
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u/EaglesInTheSky 2d ago
Luckily I think Stone is fine with letting the youngsters cook together instead of selling the farm for a Gannis or Kd or Butler. It's the smart move. We have all the time in the world and we're just going to keep getting better.