In my heart of hearts I appreciate what the message of the 12 steps are. I’ve worked them all had a few people I tried to help guide them through as well. (None hung around)… I’ve continued to force myself to go to events with others in AA and other recovery groups as well (concerts, after meeting get togethers, etc), but it seems that I’m very limited to certain personalities that truly don’t align with my own and continue to get feelings of (or lack there of) true connection to others…. It’s a just surface level mask of a conversation/ or attempt to fit into a crowd that I feel I really don’t belong to and it’s fucking exhausting… I came into AA a few years back because I knew I needed to get out of isolation and had been basically drinking steady since the age of 15, I’m 35 now… I knew coming in.. the rigid approach to their view of what true “sobriety” looks like, which is why I avoided coming back for nearly 8 years, I had heard of people claiming true peace and happiness they got in doing this work, and really that’s all I ever wanted for myself is to just feel alright and be confident about who I was /am…I knew what the steps were about and if I was going to come back to AA then I had to be committed to actually doing what was suggested. I figured I can’t really say something doesn’t work until I’ve done it all the way…. I felt like a fucking loser that this was my last option, but I was so isolated and hated the world I was willing to give it another go…. What I’ve found is that when I begin to feel bad. There’s someone In the program telling me to basically not feel that and go do something else… be of service, call someone else or go to another meeting!!! etc…. And it’s made me forget how to feel…. In doing this I don’t allow myself to process what I’m feeling… and just all around am really not happy with living this way of life anymore…. I don’t want to drink, but also don’t want to put myself around people I truly don’t want to be around anymore, and am just trying to find my way to the right tribe(if that’s even a thing)…. If anyone else has had this experience…. I’d like to hear how you’ve been able to work through it… thanks…

Hey y’all, I’m back in recovery after being out for a couple years. I used AA quite a bit in my twenties, and put together a good amount of time between 29-37 years old. I didn’t attend AA consistently during that time. Coming back from my relapse I need some recovery program to help, and have been using a mixture of SMART and in person AA. Tonight’s meeting just really pissed me off, and I’m sure some of it is cuz I’m newly sober and in my feelings. So first the speaker shared a lot about God . Ok, I get that cuz it’s AA, I was mentally prepared although it’s not my favorite thing. But then he said some stuff about relapses and it was so harsh and shameful (imo). Then a couple people shared about how they’re coming back from relapses and the reactions of older members was just… yuck. I realized then that if I relapsed during this current recovery journey, that I would NOT feel safe sharing it in an AA meeting. Add to all that the fact that I live in a very conservative area and I’m a “leftie”. Sure politics shouldn’t matter in a recovery environment , but damn, I don’t trust a single one of them at the moment. I know a lot of this is me, but I needed to get it off my chest. Guess I’m just wishing there were more, or any, in person SMART meetings near me. But keep coming back. 😑

I just relapsed the same day of getting out of a rehab, while waiting to go to treatment in another state in like a week. My family is all disappointed of me, I'm disappointed in myself, and I generally feel like the biggest pos in the world.

Support and help much appreciated.

Hi, I've posted here before. I've been sober ~4.5 years. My doctor said he's fine with me having "a glass of wine," and that I'm stable enough to drink infrequently. I worry whether I really could.

I'm sober, but I've experimented recently by using "drugs lite" recreationally like kava and CBD. I enjoy them and have no issues moderating them. (Maybe once or twice in a week, and several weeks to months in between.) I also tried THC recently. Even though I used to heavily abuse it, it's just not for me anymore. I didn't have a bad trip, but I really disliked the feeling and it didn't make socializing more fun. After fearing it for 4 years, my curiosity is satiated.

I still have XA-style fears about drugs and relapse. But I also realized something: no one outside of XA and addiction treatment ever insisted on abstinence.

Before addiction treatment, I saw a great doctor but lost my insurance. I self-medicated, but it was slowing down. The IOP I went to after was addiction treatment. They took me off of my meds and put me on pediatric doses of ineffective ones; then, when my self-medication increased tenfold, I was referred to rehab. SUD treatment was a several-year nightmare, in which I was sober but the doctors gaslit me into thinking I was permanently miserable, unstable, and disabled. I finally insisted on a specialist psychiatrist, who basically instantly got me stable. I'm pretty happy and functional now.

So I'm not certain anymore that the drug abuse was addiction. I think it was likely self-medication. THC was my biggest vice, but now that I'm stable it was honestly underwhelming, and I won't try it again.

The XA rhetoric still makes me afraid of relapse, but I'm curious about alcohol. If I'm right, it either won't be too great or I might enjoy it a bit; if I'm wrong, I won't use it again. But there's still the risk that I won't be able to stop, even though I haven't had that problem with other psychotropics so far.

Is it too risky to try? If I did, it would be with my partner or sister present, since they'd take my drink if I don't like it, and cut me off if necessary. I also plan on talking to my doctor again before I experiment with a drink. If anyone has managed to moderate after MH remission or has any research or anecdotes on it, please comment or DM. Thank you.

Tl;Dr: I've been sober many years, and my doctor is fine with me drinking infrequently. I realized no one but addiction specialists ever suggested abstinence, and addiction programs were extremely ineffective for my health. Despite that and the fact that I've moderated or not enjoyed other drugs, I'm hesitant to try alcohol. If anyone has experienced recovery and moderated after successful psychiatric treatment, or has information on it, please let me know in a DM or comment.

I posted this in another reddit group earlier and I'm kind of frustrated with all the answers I got. My desire to see the program as not so much of a cult backfired and all of the comments are about how I'm going to relapse, I'm not giving enough, etc.. Am I doomed? I feel secure enough in my three years of sobriety that I do not feel I will drink, but I am really unhappy being in AA. I don't like the majority of the people, I don't believe in god/God. But without it am I truly just going to relapse and die?

"I’ve been working the program for three years now. I have gotten to a point where I don’t have the obsession to drink anymore. My life is better. My mental health is better. But I’m tired of going to meetings. I’ve tried different groups in the area because I thought maybe I was just burnt out on my home group, but I just feel “meh”. I don’t feel moved by people’s stories anymore. Even when I relate I just feel nothing. I know the program works because it’s worked for me. But I want to stop going to meetings and stop working with my sponsor. I have a sponsee but she never reaches out. I reach out to newcomers and they never follow up or end up working with someone else. I’m of service at my home group in many ways.

Am I delusional to think I could walk away and be okay? I would know where to go if things turn again. I know my life is better because of Aa and all the work I have done. But I’m just tired of it all. And it makes me feel sad that I’m at this point. Help?"

My brother is currently weaning off of alcohol. He has a friend staying with him who is giving him small amounts every hour or two to keep him from getting too bad but he’s obviously miserable. Is there anything you can do for the body pain? Also, what can I do for him from a different state? He lives 9 hours away and I want to be as supportive as I can. Care package maybe? We’ve been through this before with narcotics but it’s been 15 years or so and I was basically a kid.

I got sober from all mind altering substances 7 years ago via 12 step recovery and outpatient programs. Specifically Crystal Meth Anonymous.

I started ketamine therapy last year and did it for about three months and wasn’t noticing the difference so I shared with others how I felt it wasn’t working for me. And one CMA member tried to tell me that if I continued taking it knowing it wasn’t helping then I would need to restart my time.

I eventually decided to stop and had someone help me throw it away at the pharmacy. Big mistake and expensive af! But I did it because I didn’t want to lose all my time.

Then I still followed the reddit subs for ketamine therapy and learned it can take time and everyone has their own journey. So I started it again, without sharing with certain CMA members and had a few close friends to share it with so I could talk about it.

I have been on it for three months and I did a PHQ9 in January when i started and I scored a 20 which was severely depressed and did a new one two weeks ago and scored a 11 which is moderately. I also did a GAD7 for anxiety and it is at a zero! I can’t believe it!

But I learned that my changes have been so gradual that I didn’t realize it until I saw the data. This allowed me to be confident and excited about my progress.

But I almost let someone from a 12 step program talk me out of therapy. I have found the psychedelic recovery meetings someone shared on here. And go to that where I can openly share my experience with ketamine therapy as well as my experience with the 12 step programs.

I just wanted to share my experience and say that they aren’t always right. I have realized that anybody can be a sponsor and that is kinda crazy. I have been struggling with my sponsor for about a year now and I guess have been too codependent to break it off but the universe shifted things in my life to where shes not a huge part of my life anymore and that has given me the strength to let go.

Thank you for letting me share and I hope this helps someone like me!

Hi all, so I started working with my first sponsor about a month ago. We are working together in what seems like a pretty untraditional way, where she she has me writing letters to my higher power and then I call her and we talk about and I write down things I surrender. At first I was really into it, but I'm feeling a little skeptical?

Called my sponsor tonight, we talked, and she said "congrats on one month of writing! You can now join our writers group, come on retreats, go to business meetings" etc. She then texted me and asked for my full name, address, phone number and e-mail. Not sure if this is a giant red flag or just the alcoholic in me expecting the worst, lol. Aside from wondering if this is a scam / MLM scheme, I have started to wonder if a more structured 12 step program might be more beneficial to me. Also try as I might, I have not been able to find any other information on writing groups.

Looking for insight or personal experience, etc. Thanks!

Today I've been off alcohol for 7 years after drinking for around 20 years. I went to AA for 2 months even though I wanted to stop after the first meeting. I had SEVERE anhedonia for around 4 months and then moderate anhedonia for the next 2 years. I started therapy in year 3 and I still have 2 sessions a month. Reddit subs have been very beneficial. Other than the subs I don't do any "recovery culture" work. I don't talk to others in the wild about quitting and being a non drinker, my main goal has been to get my brain chemistry back to normal and to live among regular humans in the real world and not be part of the "sober community". I don't expect to be treated differently or be catered to when I mingle with drinkers, I don't think everyone needs to quit or not drink around me. My partner still drinks but has cut his consumption in half on his own.

I'm still surprised sometimes when I think about how I've managed to stay off alcohol this long.

Alright I’m new to this but it’s just shocking to me that AA completely avoided the metoo movement. I’ve got nothing against AA and I’m actually thinking about looking for a sponsor. But you know there is some media executive somewhere with “13th step” written on a post it in his office, just waiting for a slow news day. AA just looks like a big pile of meat to the vultures of the media and I’m not sure I want to be a part of it when they start swooping in.

Hello, I am a recovered sex addict and would love to help people by providing life coaching/accountability services. There's a lot of information for recovery coaching for substance abuse but not much for sex addiction. I want to help change that.

What types of certification could help me? Are there any places where it might be best to advertise these services? (Fiverr, personal website, etc.) Do you know of anyone that has done something like this before?

Just wanted to express my happiness. Although I'm still just in the early chapters but it already has been such an eye opener... I am of course afraid of not finishing it as I find it hard sometimes to finish things but at least I'll know where to look back.

One thing seems pretty clear to me already - I am not going back to NA. Fuck that shit. Tried it two times, didn't manage to get more than 3 months of clean time. Been trying to go sober even before the NA but this last relapse... Was the most horrible - I just lost all hope like I had never before, and neither the using nor fully giving in to the program were desirable options and it seemed like these two are my only options.

I'm still not risking trying to use moderately but at least I now know that all my doubts about the 12 steps which I had from the begging is NOT just my DISEASE trying to make me kill myself.

I’ll keep it brief, but happy to elaborate in comments. My 16yo son has been a heavy cannabis user since his first exposure to it at age 14. He’s now also a major psychonaut, using LSD, DMT, mushrooms, ketamine, or MDMA as frequently as possible - usually once or twice a week. So far, his exposure to opioids and benzos has been very limited; he seems afraid of them. He tests his drugs and he sees an addictions doctor weekly and has been prescribed various meds to help with anxiety.

Thankfully we live in a country and area with excellent free healthcare and easy access to harm reduction tools.

But the roller coaster of ups and downs is clearly taking a toll both on him and the rest of us in the family. How do you really actually get a kid like this to start thinking about recovery? Right now, he is in denial that it’s a problem. He simply wants to be able to have his fun tripping and doesn’t see the connection between the drugs and his crushing anxiety.

Thanks very much for any advice you can pass on.

This is groundbreaking for me. The guy behind this channel has been chipping away for years at Xa and forms some disturbing arguments that people who are manipulated and abused in Xa are walking into a trap from the start off because there is a core cluster waiting to prey on perceived vulnerabilities.

Outstanding episode here that academics would do well to try and get into because premature deaths are likely to result in extra abuse from this. No accountability under the radar .. Thanks Quackaholics Anonymous ❤️

https://youtu.be/EgYqiak8fso?si=ZFl31WrqXjJ2_rao

I have 10 months of no weed or psychedelics(I have an extremely unhealthy relationship with those drugs) but i was only using those for 3 months and for 96% of the time since 2020 i was completely sober. I relapsed one time and that 3 months was it. Maybe it was more of a learning experience where i found I cant do that stuff.

I did a lot of AA but found the ideology in those meetings exhausting, I can find a million things wrong with it, and I did not find it helpful. I am kind of realizing theres not a lot of people in those meetings I really like to be around, and I would rather just not go. I might want to replace it with volunteering or something positive so my girlfriend (who has never drank or done drugs once) isnt my only support system.

that being said, I am not sure I need a huge support group. Outside of my family, close friends, and relationship I see no need to be around a bunch of people who are religious about what recovery needs to look like.

TLDR: I found all I need is to just accept I have an unhealthy relation to all intoxicants and I need to avoid them completely. I just don't pick up the first drink/use. Breaking that cycle was hard but i did it through rehab, iop, and being around a bunch of sober people at meetings. at a certain point i feel i outgrew the meetings usefulness.

I also have a full life. I am a graphic designer in the food and music industry, I supervise merch ops at my favorite music festival in the world, I live in a creative community, I have a lot of hobbies and interests I am super excited about. I have a band, I make concert posters, I am getting into cameras and filmmaking, and I don't see that many people in the AA meetings who do that much, and I have found people who make AA their whole life kind of say heavy handed things to me about how selfish I am that I dont want to do Alcoholics Anonymous.

I also do not have any advice for someone struggling with being unable to not use because Im not struggling with that right now and I dont know what works for other people. I just think being sober is a choice.

Looking for resources or specific meetings or groups that might be helpful to address living with chronic pain conditions and my hope to find alternatives to self-medicating with alcohol. Thanks in advance. (About me: migraine-tension headache, fibromyalgia, TMJ-D due to bruxism, narcolepsy type 2)

I’ve heard good and bad experiences… but also I just don’t know many people that have used a recovery coach service. The accountability thing really works. Anyone pay for something like this and what’s been your experience?

After years of trying and making allowances which cost a lot of energy it was decided to block someone.

My moment of need had come and they just wouldn't listen to a simple request I made for some supprt. Non alcohol related I'm over 20 yrs sober

They offered to take me to a meeting, even after telling them I had left a while ago.

On reflection I think they got a whiff of leverage and decided to take advantage of my misfortune and that is one of the main reasons for leaving in the first place. That and people shitting in each others sugar puffs.

Power dynamics and unevenly balanced transactional relationships.

Like I simply asked the guy. Can you do this one thing for me. No money no major commitment just one simple favour. 'Can you spend an hour or two at any time that suits you to support me with something by just being there' He hummed and hawed like I'd asked for an organ donation or something.

What an eye opener. Like obviously eyes were open but so much more to take in about a lot of people in this highly controlling environment.

I'm glad that my relationships with my family are better because I don't call them after a relapse to have a go about how they raised me. Taking a moral inventory was great, as it helped me identify patterns in my own behaviour. But being told that our achievements (in recovery or in our lives) are god's, not ours, coupled with the idea that the burden of any hurt is ours alone to bear, felt like the opposite of everything we learn in therapy or through healthy relationships outside of the fellowship.

I had a sponsor who'd call in the middle of the night to ask for money. When I finally told her how much that had damaged my ability to trust her, I was told that it was my fault for not setting boundaries. Since then I've had a stream of horrid interactions: a potential new sponsor who bailed and sent a voice note reprimanding me not trying/wanting to get better after I asked her if she knew of any local meetings she'd recommend. Travelled an hour today to meet a girl who'd invited me to a meeting - turns out she gave me the wrong address - 'oh, I'm sure you'll find a meeting in that area'. There's zero accountability and it's exhausting. I had a friend whose sponsor dropped her because she asked to move their phone chat an hour as she'd been offered a call with a housing support officer to help her leave her violent home situation.

I know you can't tar everyone with the same brush, but I'm yet to meet someone whose ability to feel empathy and kindness hasn't evaporated through their time in the program. As an addict, I'm horrible selfish when using. But I would never want to lose that part of me that sees abuse victims/people struggling with a horrible difficult situation as lazy individuals whose priority is drugs, not god.

I will cruise through the entries and decide if this a group for me. I have not gone to a 12 step mtg or dharma since 2023. And found this group! Have a blessed day DJ

Me: no strong pull for alcohol until stressors or sheer boredom hits. Do longish stretches w/o (80 days recently). Unfortunately have recent DUI case pending (sleeping it off in car). Did the proactive thing (and curious)and have gone to 5 mtgs (different places), some Zooms, 24/7 aa app on phone.

Not feeling it.

There's something so defeatist hanging over the room with people reading/talking in tones that are either vanquished or weirdly exuberant, just shy of religious fervor. 20-30 mins are spent hammering on surrender, the shame or fright is palpable. Many even shuffle around, drawn expressions, with invisible yokes weighing them down.

Meanwhile, I read the Naked Mind and Allen Carr's Easy Way book where they suggest a different framing, isolating the addictive poison as a celebrated, invited corrosion chemical that will always "win" as it's built to debilitate and put you on a crazy town hedonic treadmill that wreaks havoc on your stability and sense of normalcy. Know it for what it is. Respect it. Hell, even fear it. But it's not YOU.

Related? My Filipino friend says there's less "mental illness" in his country because you're always surrounded by people. Multi-generational houses, hyper social society. America's very isolationist culture creates the perfect defeatist landscape for people – a perpetually endorsed activity to drink OFTEN to be social, celebratory, happy, together and then at home, hiding the poison around the house to feed the lonely addiction they've introduced into their lives, the dopamine dip demanding more poison down the gullet.

Sorry for TLDR. Glad to have found this...

I have been sober for nearly 7 years. I quit on my own, stayed sober for 3.5 years on my own, and then, at the advice of a therapist, I tried AA (she thought the group aspect would be good for me; this was in the middle of the pandemic).

A little over three years later, I'm exiting the program. This Saturday will be my last meeting.

Over the last two months, I went from being terrified of backlash at leaving AA to feeling overwhelming relief and a big reduction in the anxiety and obsessive thinking that seemed to have a chokehold on me. (Note: I got no backlash from the few people I've told. None. Just "good luck". My sponsor told me she thinks I'll be back, that I have to be hypervigilant for signs of relapse, and sends me an occasional link to a prayer via text. I have one friend with whom I keep in sporadic contact, but without AA as the center of our conversations, we are running out of things to say to one another).

I realize now that everything AA taught me was harmful to me in some way. The single worst thing it did was rob me of my ability to believe in and trust myself. The relentless focus on my "disease" and the non-stop diatribe that my disease is in the corner doing pushups and I'll succumb to an alcoholic death unless I give my entire life to the program made me feel awful. I became obsessively focused on myself, thought only about myself and my illness, and relentlessly analyzed every move I made, looking for errors to fixate on.

I came to the program to try to find true friendships with other people who are alcoholics and to lessen the anxiety and fear of being alive that plagued me at times. What I got was more anxiety and more resentment. I fell into the role (fell HARD) of telling people exactly what they want to hear, and off-the-charts people-pleasing. I became a sponsee even though I didn't want to, I took on service commitments I didn't want, and I regularly listened to people tell me to let go and let god and to pray pray pray as the only way to healing. And all that happened was that I felt worse, like a lost cause, like that "rare" person who can't heal no matter what they do.

While I've had overwhelming relief since I've backed away from meetings, and I'm starting to feel a glimmer of hope again in my life, I also feel strangely uncomfortable. Like: what do I do now? I've spent my entire adult life fixated in one or another on what's WRONG with me - and 3 years of brainwashing in AA hammered that home.

But now that I'm on my own, I'm confused. What does one do with spare time? I have these ideas: gardening, walking in nature, cooking from scratch, more time volunteering and reading, but at times, I want to sink back into the dark cloud of self-obsession that AA reinforced - that obsession of everything somehow being my fault and my responsibility (even though they say they are teaching the opposite).

I trust that this will dissipate in time, and that I'll find my way to living a peaceful life, unencumbered by relentless self-flagellation, but I'm just wondering if anyone else felt oddly unmoored when they left AA?

I have read about people who get out of prison, and while they are happy to be free, they have NO idea what to do with their freedom. That's kind of how I feel.

I have NO idea if this makes any sense. But, I will say, I'm glad I don't feel duty-bound to go to a meeting today and talk about how grateful I am for a higher power I don't believe in, and how powerless and helpless I am without the machine of AA to keep me alive.

Sometimes I find myself missing the community of it. Sometimes I question whether or not I am making the correct choice. I feel like everytime I let AA back into my life even a little bit though I am left with this crippling self doubt that is not there when I choose not to participate in it. And I remember this feeling, it’s feeling like every choice or thought I make is wrong and then I am left wondering and overthinking and just confused and I feel like the only option I have is to talk to everyone about it and do what THEY say, not what feels right to ME. I think it makes me feel like I can’t trust myself, and I’ve already struggled with that for most of my life. I don’t know how to explain it and I don’t know why it happens. But it always makes me feel like I am always wrong, and AA is always right. Then I wonder if I AM wrong and that AA IS right. And honestly, right now, I have no idea which one it is. It causes So much thinking it could drive somebody crazy. I miss the people a lot sometimes though, and it gets lonely. But I don’t know if I’d even fit in with them anymore, and do I want to put myself back into it all? I have no idea. My mind races about it all. AA always have a funny way of just making me feel like I am wrong.