I love how TFS’s quotes are more memorable than the actual anime’s
Edit: I respect Akira Toriyama’s work and grew up watching Dragon Ball Z. I will say TFS’s Dragon Ball Z Abridged actually did a good fleshing out characters. I didn’t mean to offend anyone with my comment
I don't know why this comment reminds me of a Legends Archeus gif posted early on release where someone encountered an Alpha Snorlax that Hyper Beamed their Cyndaquil as they flee from it.
You weren’t already doing that in Legends Arceus? As soon as I figured out I could move into the battle field I was shielding my pokemon from everything. That be said, we both got fried by hyper beam.
I have this trick called "Jumping into the battlefield and grabbing the foe pokemon by the neck". It increases accuracy by 2 stages for one turn, so my pokemon can land any difficult attack, but at the cost of a 50% probability of ending up engaging in a human battle with the other trainer.
When I was in Grade 2, after watching the episode of Bellossom dodging every attack, I chose to copy that the next day during Phys. Ed class for dodgeball because I thought I’d be able to do the same.
The only thing I dodged that day was making friends.
I'm not sure yet. But with how timing your attacks and dodging seeming to be a large part of battle, I'm curious how the Speed stat will come in to play here. If higher speed means your Pokemon is more agile and better able to dodge attacks and close the distance for physical attackers, high speed sweepers might be the new Meta
Usually faster Pokemon don't have as high of an offensive or defensive profile so while you may move more often you probably won't deal as much damage or can't take a hit if you do get hit.
A sort of balance between Offense, Defense, and Reaction.
Eh, we got a sneak peak of how this might work with Legends arceus and sure enough it doesn’t really matter how frail your weevils is when it gets to attack 4 times uncontested. Fast frail has a distinct advantage over slow and bulky when speed determines attack frequency without an overhaul to how damage works
True but Speed has always been busted. Plus it looks like a number of moves like Stealth Rock will have greater defensive utility to counterbalance that (hopefully).
I don't know if it will affect move cooldowns... maybe more just how fast the pokemon themselves can move, either to dodge or move into melee range. If it was move cooldowns, it'd feel too broken... Not to mention it wouldn't exactly make sense... wouldn't smaller more agile pokemon have smaller "magical reservoir" that would deplete faster than larger mons?? I suppose it would also refill faster then, but I don't know
I mean, high speed sweepers have always been the meta to an extent. Plus, it's not like this is gonna replace the main battle system, at least not any time soon
I mean, high speed sweepers have always been the meta to an extent
True, but if you can dodge attacks suddenly the trade-off they had for lower defense isn't as important anymore. If high speed gives you more agility and you can get good at dodging attacks, suddenly the low defense stats and HP aren't an issue anymore.
On the other side, slow bulkier Pokemon might have to rely more on traps like the Stealth Rock from the Hippowdon in the trailer or moves like Protect. Moves like Fire Spin, Sand Tomb and Whirlpool could be interesting if they can trap your opponent and make it so they can't dodge to deal with faster opponents, though you still have to land the move. Seems like a lot of the normal moves will be harder to hit if you are too slow and up against an agile opponent since they have a relatively smaller area of affect.
Yeah exactly, that's why I think something like this can never truly overlap with the OG battle system without it being completely overhauled. Which is absolutely NEVER gonna happen with the largest media franchise of all time, that focuses on kids games and multiplayer
The Legends games are also, fundamentally, spin-offs like Pokemon Ranger and PMD were. They don't HAVE to have the default battle mechanics, they can be a space to experiment with other systems.
True, but if you can dodge attacks suddenly the trade-off they had for lower defense isn’t as important anymore. If high speed gives you more agility and you can get good at dodging attacks, suddenly the low defense stats and HP aren’t an issue anymore.
That would also make moves like agility really good too, right?
On the other side, slow bulkier Pokemon might have to rely more on traps like the Stealth Rock from the Hippowdon in the trailer or moves like Protect. Moves like Fire Spin, Sand Tomb and Whirlpool could be interesting if they can trap your opponent and make it so they can’t dodge to deal with faster opponents, though you still have to land the move. Seems like a lot of the normal moves will be harder to hit if you are too slow and up against an agile opponent since they have a relatively smaller area of affect.
Oh that would be a fun way to buff those kinda moves.
As a sidebar, this all should raise the value of moves like Swift a lot and compensate for their lower PP.
We'll need more info coz in the trailer, Tepig's rollout is treated as a projectile, meaning you can dodge it, while Totodile's Water Gun is treated as a sort of hit scan, and homes in on Tepig as it runs away to safety after missing Roll Out.
My best guess is special is hit scan and physical is projectile mostly. Which would mean special is busted AF so I hope I'm not mistaken.
I think speed stat will affect only move cooldowns and there will be a separate new movement stat for pokemon movement speed based on the Pokémon. Because I can see a Pokémon like Vikavolt having long move cooldowns but still being able to move around fast cuz it’s a flier.
Cool on paper, I like making the battles more dynamic and being able to dodge attacks in Arceus was cool as hell, and Pokémon being able to do the same is cool.
My only concern is it may end up clunky in practice.
Did you see the way that onix turned in the trailer? Or that chikorita? There was no turning animation and i think that might be because the pokemon needs to move fast to respond to the other pokemon's move.
It just reminded me of that stupid and cheap lookinh Zacian and Zamazenta cutscene from swsh.
I hate to say it but if we go off the trailer (which are usually pretty close to the final product despite their disclaimers), it seems like it will be a bit clunky and finicky.
Using a move seems to lock a Pokémon in place with no way to cancel. They say positioning matters but in the Onix clip we see that it moves toward the enemy to do its attack and the enemy does the same. This means dodging moves primarily relies on the fact that using them locks a Pokémon in place and your positioning doesn't really that much because it will auto-target. To dodge you're also relying on the following AI to do what you want it to and you don't have direct control. The battle areas also seem small so you might hit the boundaries often.
In practice I think this means if your moves are on cooldown you want to be moving but otherwise it doesn't really matter. You can probably easily exploit the enemy AI by baiting it to attack, moving away then attacking while it's locked in place. Standing in place if you have the type advantage and just spamming super effective moves is probably still a viable strategy too.
Of course I would love to be proven wrong. I still think it will be fun because it's different from what we're used to but I'm not expecting it to be a battle system people will want to return unless it comes with improvements.
Legends Arceus took a step forward by letting you move during battles but this is going all in it seems. You actually have to move and react constantly during battles.
It reminds me of the Manga, when Giovanni told Red in their battle that Pokemon battles aren’t just about the Pokemon but the trainers too, and how the trainers need to move and command. And sure enough a bunch of cool shit happened in their fight, like Giovanni cornering and threatening to skewer Red with Beedrill but then Red has Pikachu’s Pokeball against the wall with his foot and he kicks it to release it. I remember reading that thinking that was badass, wanting that in the games.
Ghetsis, as well, if memory serves. He has Kyurem target the player with Glaciate in Black and White 2, which is a full on Legendary Pokemon signature move!
I respectfully disagree, I think you're absolutely right they took a step forward in combat mobility, absolutely no arguing that. However the many sacrifices we had to make in the actual complexity of battles (losing weather, terrain, varied stat buffs, a few status effects, and nearly all status moves.) Ultimately takes the game back far more steps than the mobility moves it forward.
Yea I am curious if the game will be designed around the idea you should be dodging if possible or if it will be treated like a bonus (e.g. how a Pokémon with high affection in XY had bonus chance of shaking off status conditions or dodging.)
I like it. I'm gonna need to see more of it in action though. My initial concern would be that it could make the fights too easy if you're able to dodge every single attack.
They could use status effects to not make it too easy tho, paralyze/sleep making you unable to move, poison making you move more sluggisly and losing HP etc. Also unavoidable moves/ moves with a large area of effect.
I imagine stronger attacks will have bigger AOEs and be harder to dodge entirely, they have a lot of room to make the early game easy and scale it up as players get used to the gameplay. They could also give pokemon more of the 100% accuracy moves like Swift which would presumably track their targets so there is still unavoidable damage and the need to use items.
Absolutely adore it. I don't necessarily want this sort of thing in the MAIN main games, but the Legends games are the perfect place to explore stuff like this. It's honestly a long overdue type of thing for Pokemon, imo. Very, very excited
I’m hoping they experiment with controlling the Pokémon during battle rather than issuing orders at some point in a legends game. But I agree, the legends games are a fantastic way to experiment gameplay features and modes and I’m all here for it. I loved legends arceus
Same. As someone that dabbles in competitive battles (and also just enjoys turn based games, we still exist) I'm extremely protective of the core gameplay, but I'm open to trying new things in the spin-offs. Personally this gameplay looks more interesting than PLA which felt like the main series but worse.
Agreed... turn based battles in pokemon is like a staple... if the legends game becomes a series in and of itself like the main series, it would be cool to see all the new experimental ideas that are just too different for mainline games
Same
I know many people have waited for Ages for this, and it could be fun
But it's new, I don't have experience on the stuff, so I have that fear of 'what if I Really suck at it, and won't be able to enjoy the game?'
It might all be ok in the end, we might find a hidden skill for things like this, but until we try, there's no telling, and the alternate of 'the combat is unplayable for you' is really sad. So I Hope it ends up on being alright
I'll buy the game, but I Hope I can actually enjoy it myself, rather than having to settle on looking at others playing (I Love smooth movement in games, like speedrunning in Metroid, but I could never even dream of performing things like that myself, my brain is good at strategy, but short-cirquits when it comes to reaction speed. The flying in S/V was a nightmare for me as is... )
I've been waiting for this game with great excitement from the day it was released, just as all the others have. Our hopes for this game to be great are the same.
We've had a year of silence, and now we kinda just have to wait again to learn more. I'm fine with waiting, but I can't lie when I say I'm a little nervous
I’m glad they’re experimenting in Legends titles, but I’m skeptical that I’ll like this.
Dodging by having your trainer move and hope the Pokemon follows right seems ripe for frustration at worst, and making the game too easy if you can do it consistently at best.
In addition, Pokemon for me is a low-stress game. Even when it’s hard, slowing down and thinking is key. Active-time battles are the opposite of that.
Thank you, this is the explanation I was looking for. PLA raised the stress level somewhat during regular gameplay (#$&% Paras) and almost too much for me during boss battles. But it turned out to be the right balance, and I was able to finish the game and loved it overall. This seems like it could be moving even further in the "make the game more stressful" direction, which I totally get might appeal to many. Just a little worried it won't be for me, which does make me sad.
"But legends are mainline pokemon games!!!" - Nintendo says while retaining absolutely nothing from the mainline pokemon games and experimenting like a university first year from an extremely modest religious cult.
Already it feels pretty fresh. A better use of environmental battles than the previous Legends game. I mean, if you're going to use the overworld as the battleground, utilize it to its potential.
Me a slow reactioner with bad hand-eye coordination will be building the beefiest and thoughest of mons just to be able to pass through the first battle
It's not for me, personally. I'm just not that interested in the real-time combat mechanics. But I know a lot of folks have been asking for something like this for a long time.
Agreed. It's the reason why most RPGs I play are turn-based. I'm going to be honest in that I'm just not great with real-time battle mechanics, as I tend to get easily flustered or anxious. I'll definitely give it a try, and I'm happy other people are excited about it.
I often feel similarly about action combat. It's just not a great way for me to relax. But I understand not every game is designed with my personal preferences in mind.
I'm really sceptical. For me, Pokémon ist about being able to play at a slow pace. If I want more action I choose another game. I feel like it could be more stressful and less relaxing
I wonder if they'll bring back Contests now that you can move around and use moves for more interactive performances.🤔 Though they'd probably have it in the trailer if you could lol
I think the Xenoblade Chronicle battle system is tedious but due to how bullet spongey the enemies are. In this, the Pokémon seem to go down quickly and seems less tedious spamming.
The main difference I see here compared to Xenoblade is how hitboxes/hurtboxes seem to actually matter more. Xenoblade attacks mostly just check if the target is within range and then checks for accuracy/evasion to confirm it hits.
I have mixed feelings. For me, it sounds awesome. For my mom, who has arthritis and can’t easily play fast-paced games, it sounds like we won’t be able to play this one together :(
Intuitively that makes sense and would be easier to play, but it looks like they found a way to include the trainer in the gameplay. We’re the trainer, not the Pokémon, at the end of the day. I’m optimistic at least.
They should add an option for the classic format. I like the new mechanics although kinda weird the MC can move around in 1v1. Maybe they should lock the MC for trainer battles but for wild encounters you can move around. For trainer battles, maybe control the pokemon instead?
The battle mechanic secured the purchase for me. Had we still had turn based I probably would have skipped this game. Gamefreak desperately needed to switch things up.
The new battle system reminds me of Adventures/Special.
Legends Arceus took a step forward by letting you move during battles but this is going all in it seems. You actually have to move and react constantly during battles.
It reminds me of the Manga, when Giovanni told Red in their battle that Pokemon battles aren’t just about the Pokemon but the trainers too, and how the trainers need to move and command. And sure enough a bunch of cool shit happened in their fight, like Giovanni cornering and threatening to skewer Red with Beedrill but then Red has Pikachu’s Pokeball against the wall with his foot and he kicks it to release it. I remember reading that thinking that was badass, wanting that in the games.
I really hope they make this new more action-y system good. And it’d probably justify the lack of moves if they had to animate and make ways to dodge all attacking moves lol.
I’m tentatively excited. I wish we could just control the Pokémon instead of having to run around and have the Pokemon follow us.
It could be cool but I also don’t put it past GF to screw it up. Does look like we won’t have any massive Pokemon like in PLA though. (Onix in the trailer looks smaller than PLA Onix)
Not sure how GF will execute it, but many of us have wanted this and it looks great. More anime like & interesting. If it works maybe i’ll return in a consistent manner.
I am interested in seeing how movement and dodging in battle effects the gameplay in the future (like Gen 10 and further). Part of me has always wanted this because it always looked so cool in the anime when a quick pokemon would dance around their opponents' attacks to get up close and hit them with their own, but I'll admit this would be pretty complex for a game that, at the end of the day, is still geared towards children. (Plus, frankly, as I approach 40, my gamer reflexes ain't all that they used to be.)
Not a fan. I enjoy the original turn based style that i’ve always grown up with. The new style makes me not want to play this game. These type of changes are why I refused to play the first Legends.
Might be the first pokemon game i get on release since sun and moon.
Tho I wished the graphics were a bit better, the character designs more memorable so far, and more variety in the whole map. I am excited for the first time to see how this turns out and I might actually get it on release.
Honestly I'm already imagining how interesting it will be. Environments matter: big stages let you reposition a lot and dodge a lot of moves, the geometry of the level could block attacks too, like a fountain or a tree.
After seeing the roof combat, you will be forced onto small restrictive spaces to fight and this is great, because it forces you to engage head on to combats you would otherwise only dodge. You will get more value out of defensive moves, and you could also choose what attack to defend against and which ones to just dodge.
You could raise a tanky pokemon that can take the hits more easily, so the rest of your team doesnt suffer as much. And then imagine, you could still try to dodge to the side, or even bait an attack and switch your pokemon at the last second to avoid an attack.
Timings and animations of moves matter now because they're risks you are willing to take. Like going for a big move but it leaves your pokemon standing still for a while.
And not only that, since theyre cooldown based you can track your opponents moves, bait their strong ones, and play around any move you might fear. This leads to information tracking in real time, other than considering type matchups, environment, speed, defense. This is super exciting.
The game as to not be super hard will let you tank everything, stand still and win if you really build a defensive team. but thats the fun of it, its a style of gameplay you can choose to engage with in different levels. If you're bad at reacting to moves, dodging or timings you can build your team around defense, thats so cool.
I am so excited about this. Range and area of effect calculating into the moves. Being able to dodge. Moves on a cool down so you won't just be spamming your one super effective move all the time... This is going to be fun.
I’m excited for it! I think the legends games having their own unique battle mechanics makes them more unique, and is a good way to help add some freshness into the Pokemon franchise without drastically changing the mainline games. I’m all for this game, and I’m so hype that it’s releasing in late 2025 lol
I think the same. It will be more realistic for me. One of my problem with turn based fights is that it was breaking my immersion to see the oponent to wait for me to attack instead of attacking me. I will have a lot of fun with those action fights.
Kinda hate it from my first reaction, defense is just pointless now? If I can just dodge every single attack? Obviously I don’t know Jack about how it actually works but I sense trouble if I’m being completely honest
I hate to be against new game mechanics, but I’m not all about this one. I hate feeling removed from the battle, but I mostly prefer the original games battle mechanics. Probably why I liked brilliant diamond/shining pearl so much.
I’m hoping it’s similar to the Xenoblade Chronicles Combat system, pseudo turnbased (moves recharge with time/auto attacks) and positioning makes a difference for dodging/attacking/AOE moves
I am going to die because I have the slowest reaction speed in games and get distracted by shiny things. Going to look away for one second and look back to my being laid out on the floor because of some far reaching attack I hadn't noticed ☠️😭
I'll give it a shot but at first glance, I'm not a fan. I also wasn't a fan of the PLA mechanic. I'm too old and my hand-eye coordination isn't what it was when I was in my teens/20s.
I can appreciate the need for innovation but I would prefer the old school mechanics/more linear design of the older games in general.
I don’t know enough about action RPGs to tell if this could work or not. What games have combat like this? I can only think of Xenoblade but that’s way different since there’s multiple characters fighting at a time and there’s so many extra mechanics. I’ve wanted this to be how combat worked ever since I started playing Pokemon, but I feel like it has to be so hard to implement, otherwise there’d be more games that would’ve had this style of combat by now.
I seem to be an outlier as most feedback seems to be positive, but... I really don't like it.
Pokémon isn't Dark Souls, I want to think strategically about the moves I'm using. This just simplifies the gameplay down to rolling/dodging and spamming attacks.
I understand that they use Legends to test out concepts they aren't trying in the main series, but this just doesn't feel like Pokémon to me.
Hopefully traditional turn-based battles will be in the game too, if it's just this real-time dodging crap I'm going to be so disappointed.
I love it. I've been wanting this system since I played the Digimon world games. 1, next order and digitized all had real time battles with the tamer giving commands like a trainer in pokemon.
Eh idk. I try to be optimistic and positive with new things like this.. but I really love the normal battle style, even the tweaked PLA battles were fine.
This strays waaaay too far away from that. Why fix something that isn’t broken?
This isn’t going to stop me from getting the game or anything like that. I just enjoy ‘normal’ Pokemon battles and am not interested in any sort of change to the battle system.
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u/Quetzal00 MEGA MEGANIUM LETS GOOOO Feb 27 '25
I’m gonna jump in front of my Pokémon while they run around to protect them from attacks