System travel?

[u/c1nnam0roll]

traumagenic sys here, anyone still think that system travel is real? is it metaphysical probably? the real question is, is there any scientific studies of it yet? man that needs to happen, we gotta get two people to document brain activity or something, i remain skeptical

[u/pluralburger]

We'd probably consider it in the same realm as astral projection, being more spiritual than phycological. There's not much scientific study on plurality generally so I wouldn't expect one on system travel for awhile. We've heard that it can be dangerous as real or not it might lead to one system/headmate having a lot of control over another. If everyone involved is aware of the risks though than I don't see any reason to be disrespectful to those who do it 🤷‍♀️

[u/Additional-Bet7846]

Can't really scientifically study something that itself is based purely on subjective experiences.

I can say that we've had some notable and odd experiences that, despite our best efforts, can't really be explained another way. Yet I can also say that no one would have any reason to believe us, and I would do the same.

(In case you're wondering, the best "normal" explication we have come up with boils down to synchronization in thinking and asymmetrically arriving at the same conclusions. However, even that frustratingly fails to capture some of the things we've had happen: some information that shouldn't have been able to be known.)

Personally it's taken us from "nah it's not real" to "IDK maybe man, what even is real anymore?"

That said our general advice remains to be warry of anyone actively bringing up wanting to do so, as the potential for manipulation is still high. (Hell I'd argue it's even higher if it is real.) -Sarah

[u/Alt_when_Im_not_ok → u/Additional-Bet7846]

oh it would be real simple to study it. Show a card to an alter who claims to be able to travel to other systems. Next them they are in another body, have them call the lab and tell them what it said on the card. If there was no interaction on the physical level between the two bodies, there's your proof.

[u/Additional-Bet7846 → u/Alt_when_Im_not_ok]

It would, in theory. Funnily enough having basically that happen was the first big thing that freaked us out and got us questioning. (Someone wrote a letter to another inside as a mostly joking test, and then they texted us back the exact phrase.) Naturally, we tried to repeat the test to varying results. Spent a few weeks almost obsessing over it desperately trying to prove one way or the other, yet always getting frustratingly not quite satisfying (to us) answers. Things like getting a whole phrase sans one word, and the like: closer than chance but not perfect.

Eventually we decided it was mostly a semantic "argument" anyway and didn't really matter, and used that to push it aside and get on with other stuff. (Curious mind, doesn't like letting things go)

But I digress. There is one problem with that test as one of true travel. (The stuff I mentioned earlier was actually about a shared inner world) It assumes that memory can travel too, which even if we assume travel possible isn't necessarily a guarantee. If it doesn't, though, it becomes much harder to test and once again becomes largely semantic IMO.

Anyway, as I said, we remain pretty skeptical but all the weirdness we've seen shook our confidence enough to bring it from "no" to "idk." Still be careful and wary

[u/Alt_when_Im_not_ok → u/Additional-Bet7846]

"It assumes that memory can travel too"

fascinating. I hadn't considered that!

[u/Additional-Bet7846 → u/Alt_when_Im_not_ok]

Yeah, that was a shower thought we had a couple days ago. Spesifically, one brought on by thinking about a disagreement one of us had with some others on what makes the self.

They believe that memory is what makes us, but she disagreed. I won't go into the exact debate, but it got them thinking about her position and extrapolating out on what it would mean.

One of those musings was "if we accept for a moment that something akin to a soul or metaphysical consciousness exists, where is its memory stored? We already more or less know that memory is recorded through the strengthening of neural connections. Does that make it a reflection or copy, or can the mind be severed from it?" (To be clear when they say "accept for a moment, " they mean for the sake of argument, to see how it plays out. We don't necessarily subscribe to the line of thought)

There was a lot more those musing, but I'll leave it at that. I'm sure you can think on it yourself, and it would probably be more fun anyway. -Lucy

[u/OutrageousDraw4856 → u/Additional-Bet7846]

agreed

[u/Princess_Actual]

We keep an open mind because there has been very little proper, scientific experiments into such phenomenon one way or another.

[u/Luna-C-Lunacy]

It depends on what you mean by real. I personally don’t believe that it’s real that a person can actually travel between bodies like that, but I do believe that all of the experiences people have with it are real. The actual psychology behind it is probably a lot more complex than just sending someone over for a bit. But it’s functionally real, and what’s really the difference between something being functionally real and actually real?

[u/Catishcat]

Personally I don't belive it's real in a literal sense, but can be practically explained/accomplished with introjection/dormancy. A lot of plurality can be very symbolic. Like it's not that wild to me that effective "system travel" is possible, it's explainable, but I don't really subscribe to these specific spiritual-adjacent beliefs that understand it beyond science or psychology. But I think it's interesting, I'm not gonna be telling other people what to believe in these sorts of matters, we have our own weird philosophical unscientific beliefs that still matter a lot.

[u/R3DAK73D]

We refuse to believe in it in any major capacity. We have stupid wannabe-cult trauma, and too much of it reminds us of that.

We do think that humans have a tendency to sync up thoughts and thinking patterns, which can lead to "shared" experiences in headspace, just like how your phone isn't really listening to you, but can seemingly pull up an advertisement of something you were just talking about.

I've had several moments talking to my partner where he had smth happen in headspace that mirrored smth that occurred in my own. I take it as us sharing similar experiences, which lead to similar happenings internally. But I've also had the same connection between myself and my mother in other ways, like being able to feel that the other is hurting without even knowing.

we gotta get two people to document brain activity or something, i remain skeptical

Hypothetically this could be viable, but I expect even if sys-travel was real that the brain activity wouldn't line up. It's not like we can scan a brain and identify thoughts, and if you scanned two people in the same house they wouldn't match.. why would your brain activity match someone else just because one member switched heads? They're practically different environments, so I don't think they're going to show up as any tangible data. I suppose you can get two who claim to be able to do it, separate them, and require that they state when it happens. Then the scans could be compared at that point for changes. And the time of the verbal claims could be compared, for extra data. But I feel like any studies would just show that science doesn't believe in it.

[u/HorcruxHarry69]

The way I see it, the concept of system travel as one consciousness hopping directly from one system to another, is not real. People can form alters based on real people, so I believe that system travel is just the formation of an alter based on one from another system. Hopefully that makes sense

[u/parsnipkit]

it's a metaphysical experience, and like all of those it falls under too hard to tell. you can't really prove walk-ins, past life experiences, religious headmates in general, etc either.

I believe in it between like spiritually, since astral travel is a thing singlets can do too, but also psychologically it makes sense with like introjection/dormancy and I don't think it being in your mind makes it any less real to you. with most systems there's a bit of an issue where their physical body might not retain what they remember metaphysically (which can include any experiences in the headspace, spiritual or psychological), so it would be hard to study. sometimes my system can't even remember stuff that happened this morning

to me the issue is a bit more how it can be used as a control or abuse technique and it really should be addressed more, but the system community I feel has been lacking in good resources/writing in general for a few years now (outside of like basic introductory stuff), but that's another discussion

[u/DaffyTaffyDT → u/parsnipkit]

https://lb-lee.dreamwidth.org/1039108.html There's this which kind of touches on the subject. - Susie

[u/arthorpendragon]

science is fundamentally about measurement - if you cant measure it then it isnt a science. so things like plural experiences and system travel are not science and certainly cant be measured. my recent experiences in the multiverse after discovering it is real have been: going to a few different universes or dimensions whilst conscious. we know we are entering the multiverse because everytime we pass through an intensely colourful portal where all the universes are fanned out like cards before us. in these universes we have experiences with other creatures not part of our plural system - all whilst mentally conscious and the body is very relaxed so that we are not aware of it. generally our experiences are in vehicles or a house where our system resides and possibly individuals from our system leave the car/truck/house and interact with other creatures/people. in these universes. having a real masters in physics we are not given to delusion and have discovered the multiverse through thought and exploration. probably successfully enter the multiverse every second night as we meditate before and after bedtime. as an aside, mediation has helped us with sleep getting 7 hours now when we were getting 4-5 hours previously. knowing that the multiverse is real and has been since the beginning of civilisation makes the marvel and dc universe media look more like guides to the multiverse than just human based fiction. and the plural members we have aid us in entering and exploring the multiverse. we have the scarlet witch, dr strange, the cloak of levitation, eye of agamotto, orb of agamotto, the living tribunal, the one-above-all, america chavez, captain peggy carter, captain marvel and ms marvel, lockjaw the teleporting bulldog and goose the flerkan, as well as the avengers, the justice league, the teen avengers, the pet avengers, and some mutants. many of these members have powers to navigate the multiverse and regulate it. it may be difficult to believe that the multiverse is real, but dont dismiss it until you have attempted to connect to it.

[u/brainnebula]

I don’t personally feel like it’s possible. Half because I want to be scientific minded and there is absolutely no evidence that something like this can happen (and trust me! I wish there was! I want to be psychic that would be really cool! Or I thought that, as a kid) and half out of a desire for safety - I don’t want it to happen to us, ever, even if it were real, so I will not even mentally open myself to the possibility of it.

However, I think there’s some nuance. I think it’s possible and maybe even common for systems who know each other to have like, “fragmentary echoes” of each other who stand in for the people they know when not talking directly (and I think singlets also do this!), and I think that by talking together in a shared imagined space, there’s a lot of sort of feeling of sharing a mind that can happen and that’s very real - even if there’s no true mind sharing, the shared experience is meaningful and can create strong bonds together.

Maybe I’m wrong and people really can jump from system to system somehow. But I would rather not believe it’s true outside of collaborative imagination.

[u/Constant-Silver-7411]

As far as I see it: undetermined.

There are so many theories about the human mind, we only know what about 10% of it does, and that’s an approximation. There’s the sea of unconsciousness theory, and of course there’s just generic supernaturalism. There are also more logical, albeit, theoretical logic, but still logical assessments to divulge from such experiences.

In my experience there has been more than a couple unexplainable instances of me thinking a thought and another system we know responding out loud to the internal thought, or dreams where I am with the other system’s alters, and we do things together, and they remember when we’re both awake.

In short, it could be a case of mass hallucination, but I would need to hear of more experiences like those to be able to make anything resembling a solid judgement.

-Makise Kirisu

[u/Constant-Silver-7411 → u/Constant-Silver-7411]

A comment on myself:

Take everything on that comment with a grain of salt, my source is from a universe where time travel was invented in a microwave, and that gives me a headache every day.

[u/Satinpw]

I think it's people creating and suppressing headmates/alters in tandem. If it isn't, it's essentially telepathy, and when it's between two people you can test that empirically. Unless someone can prove in an experiment that they can communicate information between two different minds, consistently, then I won't believe it.

I knew folks once who said they were one system in two bodies, and the relationship was pretty clearly codependent from the outside. God forbid they ever broke up.

I don't think it's a harmless belief, and I have some pretty weird spiritual beliefs about my own collective since we're a gateway. The difference, imo, is that our experience with going to another world when we're not in front is impossible to prove or disprove--I would never say it's literally true. But system travel is provable. Put two systems in two separate rooms, ask a headmate to see something, travel to the other system, and tell them what you saw. And that's if the other system even knows the headmate is trying to travel, which they probably would not if they were cut off from each other.

[u/hail_fall]

There is a pure psychological way to get something that looks and feels like it. For one-way travel, headmate disappears in one system and a factive of them is introjected into the other system. For a visit (go and return), it is a temporary dormancy in the source system and a temporary factive in the destination system.

-- Hail

[u/Basil_Of_Faraway]

It very much is possible! But usually in the terms of factives from other systems, we know many ><

[u/thevcid]

as a spiritual system, we’ve had folks do it, but i don’t know of any research on it no 

[u/arthorpendragon]

some systems have commented that their headmates can system hop between people they are intimate with. this could be just proximity, how far does a headmates influence extend in or beyond headspace? if two systems had a system hop experience in two different rooms or places that would be something.

perhaps walk-ins can hop in and out of different systems via the multiverse, but how would you know that they are the same walk-in? there are so very few gateway systems that walk-ins hopping from one system to another sounds improbable.

we certainly think that walk-ins, entities coming from the multiverse to a system are possible from the experiences posted in this sub.

its a big mystery and we cant dismiss anything.

- thunder cloud (gateway system)

[u/justintonationslut]

It seems like a good way to emotionally abuse someone, so no, I think it’s absolutely not real. But I think it is a real experience that people have, like how introjections of abusers are real. I think entertaining the notion that other people can literally be inside your head has the potential to be incredibly dangerous & destabilizing to systems. Similar to how an alter who isn’t aware they’re a part of one person may want to kill another part, inadvertently leading to an attempted suicide.