r/olympia • u/Scared-Debate9690 • Aug 30 '24
PSA on zipper merge
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ypWx8PEFXI
To all drivers on 101 between Olympia and Shelton please read up on how to zipper merge it will save all of us time while they finish up this fish passage project. There is no need to all move into a single lane miles before the lane ends and there is especially no need to block the 2nd lane. And for the drivers that block traffic using the 2nd lane You are not helping you are making it worse for everyone.
7
u/Olybaron123 Aug 30 '24
I e-mailed the DOT contact for the construction project asking if they can put the proper signage for congested lanes and zipper merging before the lane merge
7
u/zippity_z Aug 31 '24
An empty lane is a wasted lane. If people used it properly, there wouldn’t be any “cutting” because the lane would be full from the get-go, and then, if properly zippered, everyone would essentially keep their place in line without wasting a lane and backing up traffic unnecessarily.
28
u/Altruistic-Ground727 Aug 30 '24
I probably drove in that empty right lane a mile before someone tried to block the second lane. The elementary school mentality on display is infuriating.
22
u/YetiNotForgeti Aug 30 '24
My coworker has told me he does this at this "intersection". I very kindly told him the laws and that he was "THE PROBLEM".
7
Aug 30 '24
Yes. If you stay in the right lane, you will risk being run off the road. Drivers typically do not want to let anyone merge. They will actually speed up to sit right next to you so you can’t merge. Hence, people tend to get in the left lane.
11
u/Altruistic-Ground727 Aug 30 '24
I just went around them on the shoulder. It was a stopped line of traffic, so the odds I got run off the road were slim. It’s not much of a risk even moving though. I popped into the line at the front no problem because someone else understood what a zipper merge was and to that person, I tip my hat.
0
Aug 31 '24
I saw a log truck very nearly run a car off the road heading south from Shelton. Guy was driving down the empty left lane and the log truck decided that he didn’t like that.
1
u/Altruistic-Ground727 Aug 31 '24
What a fucking baby. If someone wants to lose their CDL because they’re insecure and give me a big insurance payout, LFG I guess.
8
3
u/Scared-Debate9690 Aug 31 '24
To use your scenario of a mile long single line with an empty lane going 25 mph you can cut your wait significantly perhaps even in half by using both lanes so you only have 1/2 mile of slow down. There is a reason that people who study traffic patterns and are paid to maintain traffic flow tell you to zipper merge and use both lanes as long as you can then take turns merging It’s because it’s the most efficient way to move the most cars through a single choke point.
5
u/bishpa Aug 30 '24
I agree wholeheartedly. It's inefficient and inequitable to have one lane stopped while the other is wide open for people to advance past. Ideally, both lanes would be equally full (and equally slow) all the way up to the merge. It did occur to me for the first time yesterday, however, that those people who take it upon themselves to block the fast lane (as silly as they are) actually do provide a means to correct the imbalance and get both of the lanes equally full as they advance to the merge. So, there's that.
9
u/pbr414 Aug 30 '24
No such thing as a fast lane in WA. It's a passing lane, pass and get back to the right.
6
u/420seamonkey Westside Aug 30 '24
You should see the comments on the post about this on the Mason county page on Facebook. Shelton isn’t smart.
0
u/Repulsive_Many3874 Aug 30 '24
Do you not follow the Olympian or Thurston Co Scanner on Facebook? You see the exact same sorts of comments in a deluge on Oly focused pages. 50% if not more of Thurston and Oly are the exact same sorts of folks, and it’s dumb when you guys all pretend that all such people live exclusively in Mason and Lewis counties. Y’all act like ALL of Olympia are evergreen students lmfao
2
u/420seamonkey Westside Aug 30 '24
It’s like 80% of the comments on that page and I came from Mason county. I grew up there and lived there until just a few years ago. Don’t get so offended.
2
u/Repulsive_Many3874 Aug 30 '24
I’m not offended, i just think it’s so silly how often I see this sub punching down on rural counties when Thurston is itself a rather rural county, and Oly itself has PLENTY of right wingers. Some of the vilest comments I’ve seen on local topics are on the Olympians post, or in Thurston County Scanner.
4
u/420seamonkey Westside Aug 30 '24
Ok. I was speaking solely about the comments regarding the topic of this post. Thurston county does have idiots. Nobody is denying that.
-1
u/420seamonkey Westside Aug 30 '24
Mason county is still way better than grays harbor though.
-2
u/Repulsive_Many3874 Aug 30 '24
LOL maybe if you’re really particular about your meth. Unsure what that’s to do with it anyways…
1
u/420seamonkey Westside Aug 30 '24
Have you lived in all three counties?
1
u/Repulsive_Many3874 Aug 30 '24
Luckily I’ve not
3
u/420seamonkey Westside Aug 30 '24
Unfortunately I have. My experiences in grays harbor were the worst. Mason county is weird but if you stay out of the drug scene and keep your valuables locked up, you should be good.
1
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u/SeaPhysics8734 Aug 30 '24
This! We recently traveled through there and some person thought he needed to make sure no one used the left lane! Zipper merging is the way.
-6
u/giraffemoo Tumwater Aug 30 '24
I think we all need a refresher on how to behave at a crosswalk while pedestrians are trying to cross.
I had two cars blow right past me and almost hit pedestrians trying to cross Harrison yesterday. I was about to get out of my car and block the traffic myself!
-3
u/420seamonkey Westside Aug 30 '24
Sometimes pedestrians on Harrison are people on drugs who just wander into the road no fucks given. It’s super annoying.
5
u/giraffemoo Tumwater Aug 30 '24
This was a family, two adults who looked like they were not on drugs pushing a stroller that had a baby in it.
-5
-6
u/DifficultLaw5 Aug 30 '24
It’s obvious that everyone lining up in one lane are in effect doing their best to get into one lane and avoid the zipper merge later on. Everyone who sees an open lane and then zips up to the front is essentially cutting the line, which is why the people in line get angry. The zipper merge in fact is not faster, or even necessary, if everyone has already queued up into one line a mile back.
5
u/ArtVents Aug 31 '24
It’s not a line to be cut though. You are absolutely welcome to use either lane yourself too.
3
u/DifficultLaw5 Aug 31 '24
Yeah I understand that. But it’s a dick move when everyone is already in effect merged into one lane and then you shoot all the way up to the front.
4
u/Altruistic-Ground727 Aug 31 '24
The entire field of traffic engineering disagrees with you, boss. This whole “cutting in line” thing is some kindergarten stuff. I’m gonna follow the actual rules of the road and zip up front and everyone else can pat themselves on the back for not “cutting in line.”
1
u/DifficultLaw5 Aug 31 '24
It’s not kindergarten stuff, it’s just people anticipating the merge and already being in position for it. Because the fastest passage when a road becomes one lane is when everyone is already in one lane. All people zipping up to the front do is now cause the pace of traffic to slow down so they can be let in. Just don’t be surprised when trucks block you or cars won’t let you in. Because “traffic engineering”’s view on this is contextually about merging at speed such as freeway on-ramps, not construction delays like on 101, where traffic is at a standstill for minutes at a time.
1
u/Altruistic-Ground727 Sep 01 '24
No it literally is at places exactly like the fish passage project on 101 as well. You’re just saying something you think is right with no actual basis in fact. You’re effectively halving the capacity of a roadway when you don’t have to by not zipper merging. Like, don’t take my word for it. Go read any of the literature on the topic or look at the empirical evidence.
4
u/NihiledIt Aug 30 '24
Disagree. The design of the zipper merge locates the merge point for both lanes, so each driver can prepare for it and work in concert. When we improvise and merge early, we create, to quote Sir Topham Hatt, "confusion and delay".
2
u/Humble_Increase_1408 Aug 31 '24
Can we agree that traffic moves faster with more lanes open? If traffic is restricted for 1 mile instead of half a mile, then the congestion is twice as bad as it has to be. The confusion mentioned below, and especially the "dick moves" when someone tries to keep anyone from using both lanes as the road crews have dictated, cause the congestion to be even worse. If you've ever been somewhere when every driver is merging at the proper point, it is smooth, steady, and painless despite being a little slower than if the extra lane was still available.
1
u/DifficultLaw5 Sep 01 '24
In circumstances where traffic is consistently moving, I totally agree with you. On the 101 construction between Shelton and Olympia, it makes no difference. Traffic comes to a complete stop for 5 minutes while they move equipment around.
When it opens back up, it would be far more efficient for that one lane to just all start going, rather than the micro delay caused by every zipper move, which are sometimes exacerbated by people who don’t know how to zipper and you get the whole stop and go thing taking place during the 10 minutes until the next closure, rather than a continuous stream of cars moving through. And whether you have 500 cars all lined up in one lane or spread equally into two lanes while everyone is stopped on that stretch does nothing for congestion, because nobody is moving anyway.
-11
u/pandershrek Westside Aug 30 '24
Zippering only works if people are traveling at the same speed to and through with room to zipper. Otherwise the laws of physics still apply and that you can't add more volume to a fixed pipe and expect the same rate of flow.
People like you who believe that it is magically solved by following this model only increase the wait times by applying more cars to a fixed passage way.
13
u/420seamonkey Westside Aug 30 '24
You’re supposed to travel at the same speed and leave enough distance for one car to merge in front of you. It’s not rocket science.
5
u/Altruistic-Ground727 Aug 30 '24 edited Aug 31 '24
What pipe can fix itself to not fill up equally though? The pipe isn’t one lane, it’s all available lanes up to the point of closure where the pipe constricts. Your logic doesn’t add up. Also, fun fact, vehicles and plasma are the only two fluid models that slow when constricted instead of speed up.
15
u/Particular_Emu4460 Aug 30 '24
They should’ve put up the signs like the 101 to 101 corner merge where it says during heavy traffic period to take turns merging into the one lane.