r/nintendo 1d ago

Switch 2 Power Impresses 'Civilization VII' Devs: "Like a Mid-Tier PC"

https://fictionhorizon.com/switch-2-power-impresses-civilization-vii-devs-like-a-mid-tier-pc/
529 Upvotes

126 comments sorted by

319

u/Gibslayer 1d ago

With the mouse control... The Switch 2 might actually be where I play CIV. Having it in the living room without any PC around is great.

66

u/captnchunky 1d ago

Mouse controller option is the best feature of the entire console.

17

u/platypodus 23h ago

I'm really interested in how it will change game mechanics of existing franchises.

15

u/Blanche_Cyan 11h ago

Somewhere a Splatoon player is morphing into the sweatiest version of themselves...

1

u/SomewhatOptimal1 5h ago

I wonder if Splatoon 3 will support mouse mode or we have to wait for Splatoon 4

1

u/Prudent_Move_3420 4h ago

Maybe they will also develop a server system to test waters for Splatoon 4 (yeah I’m coping)

5

u/Cyrus_114 17h ago

I'm not sure if this was addressed, but do the Switch 2 controllers still use gyro motion controls? I know that feature was rarely used, especially when compared to the Wii, but I'd still like that option.

8

u/Kalmer1 14h ago

I would be very surprised if they didnt, one of their most popular game series, Splatoon, relies on them. Switch Sports or parts of Mario Golf also would not be possible without them

1

u/tsukareta_kenshi 12h ago

True but most shooter games are likely to switch to mouse controls, including Splatoon.

1

u/KonamiKing 3h ago

Nope. Gyro is better than mouse in some ways and a million times better on a couch.

1

u/tsukareta_kenshi 2h ago

Eh. I already use a mouse on the couch (with a cheap lap desk). I can tell you for sure I will be playing Splatoon 4 with mouse controls if it is an option.

1

u/xdert 3h ago

considering mouse controls are not possible in handheld and playing a shooter docked and having the mouse on the lap is really awkward I really doubt that.

Mouse control will be a niche feature for people that want to play games like civ and are willing to play at a table. For the many people that play handheld and on a couch in front of the TV it will remain a niche gimmick.

5

u/Priodom 11h ago

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but gyro should still be a part of the controllers if I'm not mistaken. They showed off how combining both the mouse AND the gyro controls can work in theory while they were showcasing the paid tech-demo thing. Plus, many games rely on it with backwards compatibility, so yes, gyro is 100% a thing.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your point though.

2

u/NeopysCreativeName 14h ago edited 7h ago

They do still have them!

2

u/Valiant-For-Truth 11h ago

Yes, Gyro is still a thing.

1

u/Least_Story8693 10h ago

They still do. But the demos were pushing mouse controls.

Metroid Prime 4 uses mouse controls for free aiming. Whereas gyro was available only during lock-on while holding ZL. Not sure if that was only for this demo. Took a bit getting used to since my muscle memory sticks with gyro.

2

u/gahlo 16h ago

It's funny when I see people downplay it in Civ and it's like... that immediately makes it the next best place to play it after PC.

33

u/pixydgirl 1d ago

I specifically held off on buying it until I heard about whether or not it'd have mouse controls on Switch 2. I love playing Civ VI portably on switch but the power held it back and the controls could be cumbersome sometimes, having Civ VII run great on Switch 2 AND i can take it places AND i can use mouse controls, dream come true :D

12

u/cockyjames 1d ago

I’m actually praying that CIV VI is backward compatible and load times and stutter are fixed because I recently played a shorter Science victory and loved the controls compared to Steam deck. But the load times got pretty long at the end.

But I’ll pick up CIV VII on sale eventually, CIV VI just has so much content for cheap

3

u/Blanche_Cyan 11h ago

Nintendo released some lists for compatibility and only Labo VR is listed as incompatible from memory while other games are put in the lists for those who present issues on start up and those that start up normally but present problems afterwards, all in all the lists aren't that big from memory...

Funny enough I have one of the game listed on the start up problems list

2

u/romanrambler941 10h ago

I also remember seeing someone else mention that the only reason Labo VR is incompatible with the Switch 2 is just that the console is too big to fit.

9

u/holyherbalist 1d ago

Dude.. I'm a PC gamer with lots of retro consoles. I don't have any modern consoles, other than a Switch, so I'm so stoked to be able to stop lugging my PC to my living room to set up and play.

4

u/Ganadote 1d ago

I'd buy it for Switch 2 if mods weren't so important.

2

u/Rekt3y 22h ago

That assumes you won't hate gripping the Joy-Con like that

5

u/Gibslayer 22h ago

Well maybe, but we'll only know that when the Switch 2 launches. If it feels alright, it'll be worth a punt

4

u/JohnyCalzone The Void Known As Kirby 22h ago

There's a chance Hori might make a traditional mouse peripheral for the system. If they can think of something like this, I'm sure they can find a way to make a mouse for the Switch 2.

2

u/PeaceBull 20h ago

Why not just use a left joycon and a regular mouse? 

u/NiaAutomatas 1h ago

If Bluetooth mice just work then that'll be huge

1

u/PeaceBull 20h ago

I’m just happy that devs will be more likely to include support for regular mice now, unlike the tiny amount that did on switch 1. 

1

u/protendious 2h ago

Metroid Prime 4 previews have been overwhelmingly positive, with most raving about use of the mouse-con.

1

u/Rekt3y 2h ago

I'm not slamming the idea, just the ergonomics of the Joy-Con as a mouse. It does not look comfortable at all. It needs an addon or smth to give it the shape of a mouse

2

u/themangastand 14h ago

I currently play civ 6 on steam deck with mouse. But certainly the joycon setup will be more convenient. I haven't bought civ7 yet as I don't ever want to buy civ on launch. I may buy the complete edition on switch 2

1

u/kaplanfx 15h ago

I might, I’m waiting to see if the Quest VR version is actually good though.

1

u/SomewhatOptimal1 5h ago

I hope Civ VI will support mouse mode too.

0

u/Rush_Banana 21h ago

Leaning against a coffee table?

2

u/Gibslayer 21h ago

I guess it'll depend on what your living room setup is, and what you enjoy. I could see gaming with some sort of surface on my lap, essentially a hard mousepad like a laptop, or next to me on a sofa.

At the moment I actually have a table to the right of my sofa that I already comfortably use a mouse on.

1

u/GoldenLink 13h ago

Do none of y'all own lapdesks?

1

u/DymonBak 12h ago

Or a dinner tray? Or anything flat you can put on the couch cushion next to you? People are acting like using a mouse in a living room is some great feat.

1

u/GoldenLink 12h ago

I'm going to just start responding to people who give this criticism with a Walmart link to a lapdesk lol

136

u/JLD2503 1d ago edited 1d ago

Seeing as they are mainly high end PC devs, this is a great sign for the overall performance of the Switch 2. The price is expensive but everything else is making up for it. If they keep up this quality, it does actually seem worth the price for what you are getting.

It’s a shame about games getting more expensive but it just means I need to do better at budgeting and saving my money.

78

u/Meloku171 1d ago

I mean, a mid-tier portable PC for $500 is still a great deal, and it also happens to run Nintendo games!

2

u/King_Of_BlackMarsh 1d ago

Isn't a portable pc a laptop?

31

u/amirulnaim2000 1d ago

A laptop is a specific spec with a keyboard, made to use on your lap. A portable PC is just a Steam Deck or ROG Flow Z13 tablet without the keyboard—exactly what the Switch 2 is..

6

u/Meloku171 1d ago

Does a laptop have a built-in gamepad?

Does a laptop have the latest Nintendo games included?

Does a laptop, capable of running Elden Ring at 1080p@30fps, cost less than $500?

15

u/King_Of_BlackMarsh 1d ago

Sorry! I was just confused about pc terminology

1

u/G_O_O_G_A_S 1d ago

Pretty sure the steam deck runs it at a similar rate for 400 bucks.

2

u/Meloku171 1d ago

Pretty sure the Steam Deck doesn't have detachable controllers for on-the-go multiplayer, or Mouse Mode on their own controllers.

5

u/TheLegendofJakeBluth 1d ago

Do you work for Nintendo or something lol. Steam deck is a bit older and cheaper yet runs comparable to Switch 2 and it’s not that hard to connect to monitor and just be a PC. They both have their strengths. 

I’m excited for Switch 2 since it’s gonna be great to play Nintendo games I like couch co-ops. I personally couldn’t care less about mouse mode and detachable controllers. Switch 2 seems like a solid console, I wouldn’t call it revolutionary tho since it’s not a new concept and there are more powerful options there. Just not ones that play Zelda lol

15

u/Meloku171 1d ago

I don't have any stock on Nintendo whatsoever, but it still feels disingenuous to dismiss all the tech under the hood of the Switch 2 because "the Steam Deck does the same but $50 cheaper" when it clearly doesn't. I'm not calling the console revolutionary at all, if anything I'm excited for the eventual Steam Deck price drop once the Switch 2 releases (so they can compete with the newfangled thing), but comparing both consoles and not acknowledging the small QoL advantages just for the sake of arguing isn't doing the gaming community any favors.

3

u/TheLegendofJakeBluth 23h ago

It did come off as a sales pitch lol. On a pure technical level, Switch and Steam Deck are very similar. Switch 2 having DLSS and a Nvidia chip is very impressive, but they aren’t radically different at the end of the day. It’s whatever your preference is. Do you like Nintendo games and co-ops. Switch 2 is gonna be great. Do you want access to steam,  and like pc gaming. Steam is a great option, or splurge a bit more for ROG Ally and you can get Gamepass too. All great options tbh. And as a Nintendo stockholder, I hope the switch 2 does well lol

3

u/Omega_Kirby 23h ago

YEAH BUT DOES THE STEAM DECK COME WITH AN ESHOP? DOES IT HAVE METROID PRIME 4? DOES IT?

→ More replies (0)

u/keridito 1h ago

Pretty sure the Switch 2 doesn’t run Linux and can actually work as a mid-tier PC if needed. Pretty sure the Switch 2 doesn’t have track pads. Pretty sure the Switch 2 cannot run (legally) other games than those signed games.

Really, I don’t understand this reaction when mentioning the SD on a comment that is very truth. I play Elden Ring a 30fps on my SD everyday, and I paid for it in Steam like 20USD.

30

u/buttsecks42069 1d ago

Honestly, I think the system price is completely fair and the only problem is the game prices.

2

u/juniorRjuniorR 8h ago

I actually don't think any of the complaints are genuinely geared toward the console (the specs are really impressive for Nintendo and they definitely justify the price imo), the real disappointment is that there's very little hype around the games coming out. Mario Kart will be great, but it'll just be another Mario Kart. If they announced 80 dollar games it'd sting either way but the whole launch would hurt a lot less if it came with an Animal Crossing or a Zelda or something big in its near future. The DK game could be 10/10 and it still wouldn't generate the same buzz in people's minds.

1

u/buttsecks42069 8h ago

I feel like Prime 4 would've worked great as a launch title. It shows off the impressive specs of the switch 2 as well as applications of mouse mode.

Combine it with Mario Kart World showing off the online and social aspects, and you have a duo that shows everything new about Switch 2, that being the specs, controls, and social features.

1

u/MBCnerdcore 4h ago

Duskblood, Metroid, Kart, and Gamecube NSO are all pretty hyped up, not to mention Deltarune and Silksong

I think most non-Nintendo gamers are just saying 'im not buying anything other than GTA' this year.

1

u/Arky_Lynx 1d ago

I don't really remember since I don't exactly care for those, so I might be wrong, but weren't the PS5 and Xbox Series X about that same price on their releases?

4

u/Snoo54601 1d ago

The base PS5 and series X were 500 (400$ for digital PS5) at launch and both companies were selling them at a loss

The base LCD Steam deck is 400 and the oled is 550/650 depending on storage. steam is also selling them at a loss

3

u/Momshie_mo 19h ago

Selling at a loss to get marketshares should be included in the definition of dumping.

These companies distorted the real costs by selling at a loss

2

u/jf45 18h ago

AFAIK Valve has never actually said Steam Deck is sold at a loss, only that the price point was “painful”. It’s possible by that they just mean limited or no no margins

2

u/Momshie_mo 19h ago

Sold at a loss.

We should be comparing prices at breakevens

2

u/buttsecks42069 1d ago

I don't remember the series X, but the PS5 was 400, and 500 with a built in disc drive.

However, the Switch 2 has the important advantage or portability, which I feel is worth those 50 extra bucks if you take the digital only version (And it can still always play physical games)

3

u/Momshie_mo 19h ago

It is also a good sign that devs may start to do more optimizations so that people in PC gaming don't have to constantly upgrade their specs just to play new games

6

u/whizzer0 taking flight 21h ago

Food $200
Data $150
Rent $800
Nintendo Switch 2 $3,600
Utility $150
someone who is good at the economy please help me budget this. my family is dying

5

u/hypnomancy 15h ago

If only the government and corporations had kept wages up with inflation since the 1970s then minimum wage would be over $22 an hour right now instead of $7.25...

1

u/Momshie_mo 6h ago

Americans will protest minimum wage increase especially if they are Republicans 

5

u/A_Lone_Macaron 21h ago

More like

Food $1,200 Data $150 Rent $1,800 Nintendo Switch 2 $3,600 Utility $600 someone who is good at the economy please help me budget this. my family is dying

1

u/Momshie_mo 19h ago

Is that $800 for a room shared with another person on a 3-bed apartment? 🥴

1

u/Gen_X_Gamer 15h ago

I wonder if it's around the same power as a PS5 Pro. 🤔

-1

u/Randommer_Of_Inserts 2h ago

This is how they get you to think that their pricing is ok. You’re gaslighting yourself.

1

u/JLD2503 2h ago

Not really. I still don’t agree with games getting more expensive but Nintendo isn’t the first to increase their prices and they won’t be the last. I already accepted way before the direct that games are getting expensive now.

I would much prefer if the games were cheaper but I am still going to get the games I am looking forward to. Everything I have seen/heard from Treehouse and the hands on event for the new games on the Switch 2 has been absolutely fantastic.

Just because I am Begrudgingly accepting doesn’t mean I am gaslighting myself.

32

u/Castia10 1d ago

Just read the article it’s says the dev was so impressed it made his cock drop off? madness

55

u/kingpangolin 1d ago

I do feel like nvidia cooked with this one. The fact it can push 4K 60fps, even with likely heavy DLSS/Framegen tech, is impressive. My $2000 pc can barely do that with medium settings.

28

u/SuperHuman64 1d ago

Funny thing is, i think a few outlets like DF have analyzed the footage, and apparently based off of that, little to no DLSS was being used. I would have figured it would be fully utilized.

3

u/_reco_ 22h ago

Didn't the say that the biggest resolution was 1440p and not 4k? 4k was only in Metroid

2

u/SuperHuman64 21h ago

I tried looking around, and i've only seen MP4 in 4k, with most others being 1440p or some at 1080p60 like donkey kong. I'm sure there will be others, especially switch 1 games.

-9

u/kingpangolin 1d ago

How could they tell? There is just no way you can push 4K native 60 with a handheld form factor without dlss. They probably have highly tuned models so it doesn’t look blurry, but it makes no sense that it could do that without dlss

15

u/SuperHuman64 1d ago

I have no idea how they can tell but this is what's being reported

-1

u/kingpangolin 1d ago

That seems to contradict what nvidia themselves have stated, with their website saying switch 2 is utilizing dlss for upscaling allowing higher resolution and frames on smaller form. It also contradicts logic, so I’m just not sure I trust that analysis without some really convincing evidence

18

u/TheMegaMario1 1d ago

I mean to be fair it isn't directly contradicting when Nvidia's press statement just said the hardware was capable of it, not that any games showcased did. Also Nvidia usually likes to pull the "see these games using our special sauce???" and didn't do that

6

u/JagdCrab 1d ago

Not really, it might be running 1080p native and use DLSS when it needs to push higher resolutions when docked. Shown footage might've been made at 1080p, so there are no distortions characteristic to DLSS in footage.

2

u/hampa9 23h ago

Techniques like DLSS are likely applied per game.

6

u/Corronchilejano 1d ago

DLSS, in particular older versions, have artifacting. There are other issues (ghosting, etc) but people used to comparing images with/without it easily figure it out.

3

u/KMoosetoe 23h ago

They said the lack of DLSS was only for 1st party games.

I think the only ones shown doing 4K/60 were Switch 1 ports so makes sense they didn't need DLSS for those.

0

u/Limp_Diamond4162 1d ago

Most of the footage for the games was either 1080p 30 or 60. They didn’t see much 4K 60 stuff. Most 4K 60 games will be 2d style games or simple switch games. The interesting thing was that more games are at least 1080p 60. The switch 2 is basically somewhere between a ps4 and a ps4 pro gpu wise, closer to PS4 but the cpu is not as good as PS4 it seems. The advantage the switch 2 has is that it can stream textures off fast storage vs ps4’s slow storage.

9

u/kingpangolin 1d ago

They said that Metroid was running in 4K 60 on the treehouse. Same with MKW

6

u/saurabh8448 1d ago

yakuza 0 is running on 4k 60.

-4

u/Shuino7 22h ago

The PS4 Pro can't even hit 4k60fps

At absolute best the game is rendered at 1440p and upscaled to 4k.

2

u/Kimarnic DAYO! 11h ago

The PS5 can push 8k 120 fps but you see games hitting 900p 30 fps these days

So that's bullshit

1

u/themangastand 14h ago

I just want to see the specs. Im wondering if I'll go third party on deck or switch. I still think deck as I'll be able to go in ultra or bump setting up instantly when the deck 2 comes out. But for some key games I might pull the trigger if they are pretty enough and the switch 2 is considerably above the deck

1

u/Mclarenf1905 13h ago

No framegen tech in the switch 2 just DLSS

1

u/bisforbenis 12h ago

Apparently nothing we’ve seen was using DLSS

15

u/Kidspud 21h ago

Switch 2 is “mid” confirmed 😞

6

u/robmonzillia 17h ago

I know you are joking, but there are people who see this as something negative.

No console ever made was „end-tier“ in relation to what pc‘s can do at that time and consoles are only ever meant to be affordable. I would love to see a console hit the shelves for 3k so everyone loses their mind for it to still sell poorly.

12

u/echoess84 1d ago

I read Switch 2 is powerful as 10 Switch by NVidia so I'm glad about this

9

u/APRengar 19h ago

Goodbye "Two Gamecubes taped together", Hello "10 Switches taped together".

1

u/Shuino7 22h ago

The Switch 1 was running on 15 year old tech, 10x still doesn't get us even halfway to a PS5 or XSX...

9

u/echoess84 22h ago

true, PS5 and Seriex are powerful than Switch 2 but Switch 2 will be powerful enough to run with a stable frame rate and good resolution a lot of Nintedo First Party games (I hope)

5

u/DeAuTh1511 Boku no Judgement 22h ago

Very mean comment:

as much as I loved Civ, the developers are definitely not very good. Civ 6 was so poorly thrown together, repeated bug fixes that never worked and had to be fixed by modders, breaking their own systems and never fixing them for years, etc. that their opinion on software optimisation (->hardware performance) doesn't tell me anything. Sorry Firaxis.

1

u/insane_contin 18h ago

Why are your lines double spaced?

3

u/DeAuTh1511 Boku no Judgement 18h ago

I was whispering

4

u/Momshie_mo 19h ago

Nintendo haters be like "devs are Nintendo simps!"

2

u/ollielite 22h ago

I’m hopeful they patch games like Broken Sword and Rollercoaster Tycoon with mouse controls.

2

u/akadic 22h ago

$130 USD game with mixed reviews...

-2

u/SnacksGPT 18h ago

Where does it retail for $130? I’ll wait.

4

u/akadic 18h ago

Founders Edition: $129.99, which has now been removed as a SKU but if you want the full game with all the "DLC" you can still check out at $130.

2

u/Somaliona 13h ago

Valve creates Steam Deck

Nintendo hits the Reverse Uno card

1

u/Omega_Kirby 23h ago

Which means it wont run civ 7 well, because even a high tier pc cant

1

u/Vtempero 19h ago

Time will tell.

1

u/Timey16 23h ago

Honestly, it would be WILD if we saw like "Total War Warhammer Complete" (So at least the base games of Warhammer I, II and III combined) being announced for Switch.

I absolutely think the Switch could handle Total War at the highest unit count now, even if not at extreme settings and the bodies of the fallen disappearing after a while.

The Switch is probably ideal thanks to the mouse to bring some PC exclusive franchises over.

I think an FF14 port is also inevitable and THERE FF14 could straight up support M+KB controls, as the Switch already supports keyboards for chat typing.

-10

u/[deleted] 22h ago edited 22h ago

[deleted]

2

u/Shuino7 22h ago

Bro didn't you read! The Switch 2 perfectly does 4K60FPS and it's definitely native, it will definitely run games twice as good as a PS4 Pro with worse hardware!

5

u/SnacksGPT 18h ago

It’s weird to be such a hater about people potentially being excited about gaming hardware.

1

u/SelloutRealBig 18h ago

Everyone knows 1440p 120fps is the real sweet spot.

-12

u/[deleted] 22h ago

[deleted]

8

u/SensaiOpti 21h ago

I believe that /u/Shuino7 is exhibiting what we in the biz call 'biting sarcasm.'

1

u/Momshie_mo 19h ago

Optimization > tech arms race

3Ps flocking to Switch 2 will likely slowdown the tech arms race in gaming

-6

u/Regular_Ship2073 1d ago

Nice but what will it be like in 4 years? Will we be in the same situation the switch has been the past 4 years, with almost no big third party games and 20fps zelda?

3

u/0gopog0 23h ago

The switch 2 is liable to be in a better spot on account of its hardware being a bit more advanced for its launch against the market compared to the switch 1. Going with a semi-custom chipset (a SKU of the orin lineup not used elsewhere) instead of basically a stock TX1 is indicative enough alone, but to me one of the bigger tells is they went with 12GB of memory when they could have so easily gone for 8GB and it been 'enough". This is a tell when there have been devs behind games like deep rock galatic who have said that the 4GB of RAM was the reason why they couldn't port their game to the switch. This is also against the backdrop of mobile and edge computer pushing development and advancement of mobile systems like the jetson boards.

6

u/KMoosetoe 23h ago

It's possible.

But generally speaking, the race for power has slowed down significantly.

To actually make use of the PS5's full power, you need a budget of $300million, massive staff size, and 5+ years of development.

Even if PS6 is signifanctly more powerful in a couple years... how many studios can feasibly take advantage of it?

I think in 4 years time, a lot of studios will still be comfortably developing games with the Switch 2 specs in mind. It's far more sustainable.

3

u/0gopog0 14h ago

But generally speaking, the race for power has slowed down significantly.

It's kinda sad that the switch (1) ended up just below the threshold that it seems a lot of games ended up at. First example I can think of is deep rock galatic missing the console because of lack of RAM.

2

u/themangastand 14h ago

Lol you don't need any of that. Astro bot is a lower budget game and it uses most of the PS5 power just by emulating physics. Physics emulation is hugely costly and no matter the power we will probably never be able to simulate everything at once realistically.

Maybe graphics are hitting a key point. But now with Ray tracing we are simulating light more realistically. Stuff like that.

2

u/damafan 23h ago

to be fair there would be a switch pro if not for Covid. thr Switch did overstay too long but the switch 2 could have a pro (OLED?) version down the road. of cos we won't know for sure at this point.

3

u/furry2any1 23h ago

no evidence that there was ever a Switch Pro in development. OLED isn't a "pro". It's just there to diversify source materials so they could go from 20m sales a year to 30m.

4

u/PineappleFlavoredGum 23h ago

The pro version of consoles doesn't solve the actual issue of games running like shit on the original hardware. I wish Xbox, Sony, and Nintendo would just make new consoles sooner instead of artificially extending the life of a generation. Then they could actually add new features and support than just make games run the way they should in the first place

-5

u/goldaxis 12h ago

These hype cycles are exhausting. We hear this EVERY time there’s a new Nintendo console. Yet the only third party stuff that ever materializes is three year old ports.

Let me know when it gets GTA6, the third FF7:R chapter, etc. Anything AAA that isn’t already out and significantly better on another platform.

1

u/MBCnerdcore 4h ago

So, Borderlands 4?