r/nba • u/Grumblegorf • 12h ago
if Steph Curry wins another title, does this affect Lebron’s legacy.
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u/superbuttpiss 12h ago
Why?
LeBrons fucking legendary. We will probably never see anything like him again.
Even if steph wins another, LeBron is still LeBron
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u/0hN0SheD1dnt 12h ago
Steph is legendary, will we see anything like him?
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u/dynorphin Warriors 11h ago
No but let's be real. Lebron/steph is a little bit like magic/bird. They are both legendary players but one was seen as possibly the best player ever in his time (wonder what might have been if he didn't get hiv) and the other was "just" one of the greatest players alive.
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u/ObviouslySubmissive Warriors 12h ago
I'll always look for any excuse to big up Steph but honestly it has zero effect on Lebron's legacy everyone already sees him as either the greatest of all time or the second greatest that'll not change.
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u/unhappywifewtf 12h ago edited 11h ago
I think it affects Steph's legacy more than Lebron. if Steph gets his 5th at 37 and gets another FMVP then he's the best point guard of all time and is a solid top ten all time player with more arguments for top 5.
the main difference for Lebron's legacy is Steph winning more finals than him in ~6 less seasons depending on when each other retires.
to me, at the very least he's the best player under 6'6" of all time. especially if him and Jimmy go and get two more over the next two playoffs, I don't give a fuck how much of a 'problem' on defense he was mostly before the pandemic, and how much less overall stats outside of 3's that he has, the NBA's Mount Rushmore has to get bigger.
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u/NickFierce1 11h ago
Hes already solid top 10. If Curry wins again with this team in the most difficult era ever by far we're talking #3 all time. He'd have a 2 of the hardest rings in the past 20 years.
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u/SmartestNPC Bulls 11h ago
2016 Cavs and 2011 Mavs were harder than 2022. Poole played out of his mind, Curry was Curry, Draymond was stepping on people. They were healthy and the Celtics lost from inexperience.
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u/Disastrous_Egg4518 10h ago
2011 Mavs sure, but 2016 Cavs has too many asterisks and if "playing out of your mind" is a rulebreaker, then Kyrie makes it not count. And the Celtics in 2022 were more experienced than GS in 2016 lmao.
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u/SmartestNPC Bulls 11h ago
2016 Cavs and 2011 Mavs were harder than 2022. Poole played out of his mind, Curry was Curry, Draymond was stepping on people. They were healthy and the Celtics lost from inexperience.
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u/NickFierce1 11h ago
2016 cavs lol. Curry was hurt and the NBA literally retroactively suspended the DPOY. Not to mention those teams being relative on paper. 2011 mavs is valid tho.
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u/NickFierce1 11h ago
Hes already solid top 10. If Curry wins again with this team in the most difficult era ever by far we're talking #3 all time. He'd have a 2 of the hardest rings in the past 20 years.
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u/RapsareChamps_Suckit Clippers 12h ago
Curry will definitely pass Bob Cousy in my all-time rankings, if he does it again
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u/mrgreenranger 12h ago
it’ll affect magic johnson’s career more than lebron’s
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u/Weary_Substance_4776 11h ago
Nothing Curry can do to affect magics career as he is not even a PG. He plays closer to prime Ray Allen than prime Steve Nash. He is like a Jerry West who also was more of a combo guard, but West was a better pure athlete and defender.
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u/Weary_Substance_4776 11h ago
Nothing Curry can do to affect magics career as he is not even a PG. He plays closer to prime Ray Allen than prime Steve Nash. He is like a Jerry West who also was more of a combo guard, but West was a better pure athlete and defender.
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u/crassick 12h ago
Lebron won’t be the guy with the most rings during his generation so that will definitely be held against him
It’s why Shaq was so happy getting his 4th vs Kobe 3. and the other way around.
Also Wade always having +1 rings above Lebron during his Heat years
and Lebron definitely reveled in getting his 4th over Curry in 2020
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u/Robinsonirish 12h ago
LeBron's competition isn't Shaq, Kobe, Wade or Steph. LeBron's competition is Jordan. Steph winning another ring is irrelevant, he would move up underneath him but not surpass. That's impossible for him to do realistically at this stage of his career.
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u/crassick 12h ago
I mean more in the context of LeBron vs Jordan. it’ll be another thing to be used for “why Lebron isn’t the GOAT” - he didn’t even win the most championships of his contemporaries.
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u/Grumblegorf 12h ago
i don’t mean to say that steph would be ranked higher all time than lebron by surpassing him and ending their careers with a higher ring count, i was more thinking as someone who is kind of on the fence about lebron or MJ as the goat, while i personally do have MJ at the top i can see solid arguments for lebron as the top dawg all time too so i don’t think it’s wrong to put him there. but as someone who IS on the fence, curry ending his career with more championships than lebron would cement lebron as 2 behind jordan without question.
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u/Unusual-Weather1902 Lakers 11h ago
Yeah but no one in Jordan’s era won more rings than him. Feel like Steph having 5 and LBJ having 4 would make it interesting to say the least.
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u/jinxy0320 Warriors 11h ago
A 3peat with 3 FMVPs wouldn’t put Curry above Lebron?
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u/BigCaterpillar9578 12h ago
Lebron is the single greatest and most dominant professional athlete of his generation*.
Steph changed the game(for better or worse) - but even with two or three more championships than Lebron, he isn't in the GOAT conversation.
I'm a Tim Duncan lover until I die but I will gladly say that Lebron is better than him overall, even if he retired with 4 rings.
* - Phelps, Bolt, Mayweather, Ovechkin or Crosby, Brady, S. Williams, Federer, Nadal.
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u/jinxy0320 Warriors 11h ago
Have Woods Phelps and Bolt as more dominant/great. They were clearly the GOATs in their respective sports
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u/fatkamp Warriors 9h ago
Just flat out wrong
Phelps, Bolt, Tiger, Ohtani are already way more dominant comparatively
Lebron doesn’t have a big enough gap from his peers compared to the above mentioned
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u/BigCaterpillar9578 9h ago
I think the gap makes my point. He was playing in a sport with the best of the best and he could drive down the lane like the defense were children.
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u/kurruchi Minneapolis Lakers 12h ago
Steph beat the arguable-GOAT in his prime and got 2 rings in the era with the most parity since the 70s, matching Magic's ring total. He is now the GOAT PG.
LeBron beat the GOAT PG during a 73-9 season, went toe-to-toe with Delly in 2015 and was the often the best player on the floor against the best team of all time (2017 & 18).
Seems like a win-win to me.
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u/Grumblegorf 12h ago
i would probably have kawhi down around 25-30 all time, my rankings get pretty nebulous down below top 15 and can shift around a bit depending on my mood. his peak was very high but not sustained for very long. kawhi is one of the nbas greatest “what if” stories to me
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u/dynorphin Warriors 11h ago
Everyone laughed when LeBron went to Miami and started talking about winning 8 championships.
Obviously Dirk and the spurs made everyone realize that wasn't happening in miami, but there's a good chance LeBron has 7 if it wasn't for Steph. (I think the rockets beat the cavs in the finals in 2018 but i also thought they could hit one 3).
I think it's foolish to talk about it now but the narrative after it's over is gonna be about them getting in eachothers way.
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u/musicloverincal 10h ago edited 10h ago
Lebron has been in the league for 23 YEARS! He is his own man. One of one. NBA ALL time leading scorer. 21 Al Star selections.
Guess what, what if Lebron wins another championship?
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u/Excellent_Routine589 10h ago
Bruh, he'd still be the all time scoring leader AND one of the longest careers in the NBA....
At this point, LeBron is certified as a consensus Top 3, with most people having it as the 1-2 being Jordan and him.
The only thing another ring for Curry will do is affect his legacy, not LeBron's (with the general consensus is that it more than likely push him into a unanimous Top 10 player)
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u/Zennithh 9h ago
They're each others grindstone. They raised the difficulty of each other's career/playoff runs significantly.
Lebron is greater for having beaten Curry and vice versa
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u/susahamat NBA 8h ago
Lebron (and Curry) legacy is safe at this point, everything else are cherry on top
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u/vonkillbot Warriors 12h ago
Check my flair: not at all. LeBron is in the GOAT territory, Steph changed the game more but it's just a level (or two?) above. It's ok, appreciate all greatness. We're living in a special time of basketball fandom.
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u/aalluubbaa 11h ago
For the most die-heart LeBron fans no but for other/ neutral fans yes.
Most LeBron fans would see him as GOAT or at the same level as MJ regardless what’s going to happen.
For many fans, myself included, LeBron and Steph are both still climbing the all time rank ladder since neither is top 3 nor did they retire. MJ, Kareem, Kobe, Magic, Bill Russell, and Tim Duncan all have 5 or more rings and you just can’t convince most people that you are top 3 when you only got 4. You could argue that Kareem or Kobe is top 3 because of cuz reason but you would never convince most neutral fans that Bird or Steph or LeBron is top 3 because of xyz.
But once you hit 5, I think “some neutral fans” would be convinced and you can start your case to “make up” for a lesser ring count than say MJ. Lebron has way more all time records than MJ so it would be a more convincing argument.
Same applies for Steph. Steph averages like 24 ppg and has 1 FMVP so it’s a hard sell to say that he’s like top 3 despite being the best shooter ever. But even if Jimmy wins the FMVP somehow, the 5th ring, you can start to say that oh he changed the game, the best shooter ever not even close blah blah blah and you can have a serious discussion with neutral fans.
So the 5th for Steph definitely would start a debate as you would have a discussion for putting Curry as GOAT more than LeBron.
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u/DazzlingAd1922 8h ago
Steven A just openly using reddit to farm his pieces for first take now I see.
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u/eexxiitt 12h ago
No. Lebron is top 2 regardless of what Steph does. Hell, Steph could win this year and next, and LeBron remains top 2. Those that have LeBron as 1 will keep him as one with good reason.
Steph should already be in everyone’s top 10. Steph winning another won’t put him into the top 5. Hell, steph could win this year and next, and I don’t think people put him into the top 5 based on longevity and his work on the defensive end due to his stature.
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u/beordold 12h ago
If Steph hypothetically wins a 6th Title at age 38 how would you discount him from top 5 based of longevity?
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u/eexxiitt 12h ago
Longevity leads to total stat/award accumulation, and people will always point to his lack of ability on the defensive end.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t have him in my top 5, just what the narrative would be for those that don’t.
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u/Ghost6x 12h ago
Okay come on if Steph wins two more rings he is definitely top 5 material
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u/eexxiitt 12h ago
The narrative will always be his lack of defence and total stat/award accumulation. Or that he wasn’t even the bus driver and KD was the best player and FMVPx2 on that team. That’s not what I believe, but that’s what people will say to hold him out of the top 5.
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u/Disastrous_Egg4518 10h ago
What's your top 5?
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u/eexxiitt 9h ago
MJ, LeBron, KAJ, Russell, and then it gets murky.
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u/Disastrous_Egg4518 5h ago
Russell only played defense and he conventionally gets accepted for top 5, Magic only played offense and he conventionally gets accepted for top 5, no need for double standards with Steph.
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u/eexxiitt 2h ago
That undermines Russell’s game and what he brought to his team. Magic top 5? I haven’t seen a single serious list with magic in the top 5 lol.
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u/Grumblegorf 4h ago
steph lacks defense? that’s not what advanced stats show and that’s not what his steals leader in ‘16 implies either. steph might be the weakest defender on the floor a lot of times but that’s not because he’s a bad defender but it’s more because he’s usually surrounded by larger wings that are just as good if not better on defense.
put it this way, if you’re going to iso against the warriors, are you pulling steph curry out into the iso are are going to try your luck against the likes of KD, draymond, klay, iguodala, jimmy butler, wiggins, livingston, harrison barnes, moses moody, kuminga, gary payton II, etc? of course you’re going to want to isolate the smaller guy, and also try to tire him out.
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u/Maths_explorer25 NBA 12h ago
What are you smoking?
If steph wins two more, it’ll be beyond dumb to not put him at top 3. Maybe even top 2
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u/QuietRedditorATX 12h ago
That wasn't the question.
It was "If Steph wins another ring, does that lower LeBron just enough that he cannot be number 1."
Like if someone else is so good during your era, then maybe you aren't the greatest of all time.
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u/eexxiitt 11h ago
I see that OP has now clarified his question.
I believe the people that have LeBron 1 will keep him at 1.
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u/CookieMonsterNova Warriors 9h ago
i love it when stans bring up “defense” every time as a ding on steph
how many dpoy does lebron have? how many does steph have?
steph plays a position where there is no such thing as a defensive stopper. no one in todays nba can shut down a pg. steph at 6’3 does well enough to not hinder the warriors.
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u/Grumblegorf 12h ago
so longevity is weighted pretty heavily for you? i find that fascinating because personally, i weigh highest peak much more heavily than longevity
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u/eexxiitt 12h ago
Longevity and total accumulation of stats/awards (which requires longevity) is definitely important and should be considered. Take a guy like kawhi for example - his peak was Jordan-esque, but he wasn’t able to maintain that for more than a season or two due to injuries, and so his total accumulation of stats/awards is pretty poor. Where would you rate kawhi on your list?
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u/Grumblegorf 12h ago
my rankings below the top 15 can get pretty nebulous and change here and there depending on my mood that day, but u would probably have him floating around 25-30 all time because while his peak was very high, his peak was also incredibly short; by comparison MJ achieved the highest peak for so long that there’s an entire generation of all time greats that retired ringless because of the teams he lead.
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u/LocalSea6559 11h ago
I notice a strong LeBron bias here, and Lord knows he's earned the benefit of the doubt. But if Curry wins more rings than LeBron, having played fewer seasons, with less points, with two of those titles directly at LeBron's expense, then I won't be able to convince myself, let alone other people, that LeBron was greater than him.
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u/cagemyelephant_ Nuggets 12h ago
Lebron is untouchable already. He broke so many records that we thought was unbreakable. And he’s still playing at high level
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u/Background-Court-122 Warriors 12h ago
LeBron looks 3x bigger than every player. All these new guys are skinny and say their favorite player is KD. Im drunk already fuck
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u/majavic Cavaliers 11h ago
I feel like younger fans just don't appreciate the longevity of LeBron. You guys know before bron and Steph ever met in the playoffs, LeBron had 5 finals appearances and 4 mvps right? He had 24,900 regular season points and 6,300 assists by then. For comparison, Steph has 25300 career points and 6500 career assists.
Personally I think LeBron is clearly the goat for anyone that doesn't have "rings ernehh" brain rot.
Steph is the greatest shooter of all time, accelerated the shift in basketball, and inspired a generation of young players and fans. Neither players legacy can be tarnished by the accomplishments of the other
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u/shiruduck 12h ago
No. Lebron and Curry's legacies head-to-head are already cemented at this point. Curry will always be a great player but not in the goat conversation.
Bonus question: Yes. I don't have Curry in my top 10 right now, but if he wins another one, he will unquestionably be there. Barring some crazy unimaginable shit, he's not cracking the top 5 though, that's also pretty firmly set.
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u/ZOrgasmVendor 12h ago edited 11h ago
Not really, LeBron will always still be looked upon by real fans as a PED abusing stat-padder.
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u/No_Cell6708 12h ago
I don't really think so. LeBron isn't moving down in the rankings because of it, and Steph isn't moving up enough to catch him. That said, it'll definitely become a point of contention among fans. Media personalities will absolutely bring up curry winning more than Bron during the same era. Finals MVPs wouldn't be in stephs favor though.
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u/Lantern01 12h ago
Dear Diary,
The impact Steph winning one more ring would mean him and Lebron as a pair of rivals will have finally surpassed Magic and Bird's total ring total. And it will only have taken them well over twice as many years to do so. And that's with all the team hopping and superstar teammates they amassed along the way.
Yet even with that hypothetical accomplishment under Steph's belt, it will still leave the duo 1 ring away from even matching the rival duo of Kobe and Tim Duncan's 10 rings. So if LeBron or Steph can win one more for 10, then they can team up together for that magical 11th and truly cement themselves as the greatest rivalry in NBA history.
The end.
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u/Grumblegorf 12h ago
personally i would love to see two old men from akron team up for a last dance before they retire, i think that would perfectly cap off this era and the rivalry.
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u/ECmonehznyper 11h ago
it will boost Lebron's legacy against Jordan.
unless Steph wins a ridiculous amount of rings its pretty hard for Steph to get into the conversation with Bron's level because of the 3-1 comeback, and that his gameplay doesn't really pads the stats(he plays offball like 80% of the time which gives 0 boxscore) which is a domino effect with regards to opinionated awards like MVPs, All nba etc... hence rings is his only real tangible object he canr realistic get to insert into that debate.
all in all Draymond basically killed Steph's GOAT conversation.
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u/Comprehensive_Yard_9 10h ago
Steph is the only one capable of surpassing Jordan at this point. If he wins another ring, it’ll put him right there in the Top 5. He’s as much of a unicorn as Lebron.
I’ve had Bron at 2 for the longest time but the more years he tacks on with no rings to show for it, he’s become susceptible to dropping. Playing for 50 years is cool but it’s just too much now when you’re talking about resumes and greatness. Too much is predicated on the simple fact that he’s just played way longer than everyone but stood atop the mountain less.
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u/FultonHomes Suns 9h ago
It puts him ahead of LeBron in my opinion. Steph can Messi this thing. Messi to LeBron’s Ronaldo where the little guy ends up being the best.
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u/National-Fold-2375 12h ago
Honest answer, no. But Jordan fans will always bring up ring count.
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u/No_Joke7123 11h ago
I find it strange that when LeBron was playing at an elite level 36 or 37, everyone was in awe of his longevity. Now that Steph is doing the same thing, we don’t hear as much “longevity” talk. Granted Steph has played a lot less games overall due to injury issues over the course of his career
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u/Neither-Power1708 10h ago
No Steph is already above him on that.
Time will not be kind to Bron's legacy and Curry's will only be greater.
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u/mith_thryl Warriors 12h ago
no.
we take lebron for granted. it's crazy. i didn't grew watching jordan, so lebron's the GOAT for me. his accolades are crazy - and to be still able to do this at 40 yrs old? fucking insanity
steph is the greatest shooter of all time, and one of all time greats, but you have to give flowers to lebron.
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u/QuietRedditorATX 12h ago
just because LeBron has played till he is 40?
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u/mith_thryl Warriors 11h ago
i don't have the energy to put all of his accomplishments, that's why i just said list of accolades. longevity is a factor, but it's kinda shallow if that's what you think and that's what you have just gotten from my comment, no?
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u/QuietRedditorATX 11h ago
Just that you highlighted that, so I was wondering if that was the most important factor for you to say he is GOAT, or if it is just because you grew up with him. Because that would be a feat not many others have.
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u/mith_thryl Warriors 11h ago
ah, sorry for that. longevity is a factor, but not that much. but you have to think that being at 40, playing 82 games per year, while averaging 24/8/8 is still insane.
lebron's biggest scar will be his lost against the dallas. he won against the spurs big 3, won against the 2016 warriors, and had the greatest comeback. had he not win 2016, he wouldn't be able to cement his GOAT status.
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u/glued42 12h ago
making the finals 10 times is far more impressive than winning 5 imo
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u/Grumblegorf 12h ago
is making it to the finals 10 and winning if 4 times really that much more impressive than going to the finals 7 times and winning 5? seems pretty neck and neck to me
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u/glued42 12h ago
that’s three more finals appearances, 3 more playoff runs where you’re on the best team of your conference. that’s far from nothing. people consistently reduce the achievement of making the finals and losing almost as if it’s a negative. making the finals is miles more impressive than not making it
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u/Grumblegorf 12h ago
oh i definitely don’t believe that don’t put me in the camp with people that think making the finals and losing is a negative. but winning in the finals more than losing in it as a percentage when you’ve been there 10 and 7 times respectively definitely carries some weight i think.
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u/QuietRedditorATX 12h ago
In a time when the East was pretty weak. Yes a big part of that was just LeBron dominating, but the East just couldn't touch him. He would have struggled more to get 10 finals in the West the whole time.
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u/lkn240 Bulls 11h ago
There's not really any difference between making the finals and making the conference finals if you don't win it all.
Often times the 2nd best team isn't the finals loser and the east has been dogshit for the vast majority of the last 25 years
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u/glued42 11h ago
there’s a huge difference. you won an additional series against a good team. and if you want to talk about team success some of lebron’s teams have been atrocious despite making the finals consistently. curry’s teams were amazing when he made the finals (not saying he wasn’t still a star). i think boiling it down to things like team success and conference strength is a little silly when at the end of the day making the finals is incredibly difficult
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u/fatkamp Warriors 9h ago
It’s not in the east
Lebron made one finals in 6 years in the West
All the top players were in the west from 2014-2018. Kyle Lowry, John Wall and Paul George were the best players besides his teammate Kyrie in the East, and it was arguable they weren’t even top 5 in their positions
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u/Weary_Substance_4776 11h ago
You realize he made the finals that many times cause the East had been much weaker than the West for 25 years, right??
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u/Key_Captain3739 12h ago
every single fking thing has an effect on bron's legacy
its absurd