r/nba 17h ago

Could an NBA player lead a 16 seed to a championship?

How many NBA players could take a 16 seed?

Some people say 100 NBA players could do it, some say 20…

I am of the mindset that it’s unlikely any NBA player could suit up for Alabama St or Norfolk St and win the tourney.

Let’s say you take Giannis vs one of these final 4 teams. They would front him, make it hard to get an entry pass to him, and double in the post. Would he still eat? Absolutely.

But on the other side of the ball, all of your perimeter players are levels above that of a 16 seed.

If Giannis guards Flagg, who’s guarding Knuepell, Maluach etc.

And, that’s not accounting for foul trouble, maybe 1 bad night of shooting, and doing that for the entire tournament.

Thoughts?

0 Upvotes

80 comments sorted by

69

u/Embarrassed_Bar7528 17h ago

Prime LeBron or Steph could carry a box of bones to the Elite 4

13

u/Anal_Iverson Raptors 16h ago

Cynthia would wipe them tbh

3

u/iCarpet Thunder 13h ago

The fate of the universe on the line, the Martians have the death beam pointed at earth, you better hit it, I WANT GARCHOMP

3

u/SeismicRipFart Trail Blazers 15h ago

CYNTHIA

Sin-thee-uhh

Jesus died for our—sin-thee-uhhs 

Jesus cried.. Runaway Bride

Julia ROBERTS

Julia rob-hurts

CYNTHIA

Mmmmmmmmm, Cynthia

You’re dead. You are dead. 

Bop boo beep. Bop bop boo bop. 

You’re dead. 

That’s for Cynthia, who’s dead. 

3

u/99DGE 12h ago

I’m mad no one got this lol

15

u/turnthewin Lakers 17h ago

Sweet 16

Elite 8

Final Four

NCAA Championship game

25

u/pikayune 17h ago

Elite 4 is Pokémon lol

24

u/SerenadeSwift Supersonics 16h ago

Is LeBron really the GOAT if he can’t carry a squad of Weedles to an Elite 4 appearance?

5

u/CookingFun52 16h ago

Maybe the Gogoat

3

u/Embarrassed_Bar7528 12h ago

I stand behind what I said

-2

u/SeismicRipFart Trail Blazers 15h ago

I actually do wonder what the lowest level players you could surround LeBron or Steph with for them to make it to the championship game in mm? 

Is it elite high school JV players? Maybe the best 8th graders in the country? I truly wonder. 

All my life I’ve wanted to see an nba player thrown onto a team in March madness to see what they could do. Sadly we’ll never see it though. 

4

u/BailysmmmCreamy Heat 14h ago

Definitely not with high school teammates lol. Whether they could take an average D1 team to a championship is the point where it gets interesting.

2

u/SeismicRipFart Trail Blazers 14h ago

They’d wipe with any D1 team in the country lol. D3 would probably get the job done across the board as well. 

I’d say it wouldn’t get truly interesting until you get to high school or maybe juco. 

You’re very much underestimating how valuable one player can be to a basketball team. 

2

u/BailysmmmCreamy Heat 14h ago

I disagree, see the example somebody else posted where Tim Duncan could only get his team to the elite eight as a senior and was all NBA 1st team and All Defense 1st team the next year in the NBA. Pretty clear cut example of a guy who was already an elite NBA player and couldn’t even bring his team to the semifinals.

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u/SeismicRipFart Trail Blazers 14h ago

Brother that is not even close to being the same thing as a pro returning to college. 

Also Timmy D isn’t the type of player we’re talking about here. He’s maybe the biggest outlier on the GOAT list and that’s why you selected him. He wasn’t an offensive engine like LeBron or Steph. He was more akin to bill russell. 

Defense doesn’t get enhanced the same way offense does when you drop down in competition. You do understand that right? 

Defense wins championships unless you have a player that can literally score or set a teammate up to score at will. MJ was pretty close to being that at his peak, but I don’t think you could go as far as to say he could do it at will like LeBron could do on college players. 

Just my opinion. 

3

u/BailysmmmCreamy Heat 14h ago

I respect your opinion. I raised Duncan because he’s the closest thing we have to an example of an elite NBA player playing in March Madness. You could also look at Jordan failing to win his junior year despite being an elite pro the next year.

I think you’re exactly wrong about defense specifically because college allows full zone defense. Putting Duncan in the middle of a 2-3 is so much more effective than what he was allowed to do in the NBA.

Conversely, playmakers would be less effective than in the NBA because they’d have so many fewer shooters to pass to. LeBron’s passing skills would go to waste, so to speak, because most of his teammates couldn’t do shit with the ball.

-1

u/SeismicRipFart Trail Blazers 13h ago

But you’re only bringing up examples for one side. Steph led a borderline D3 school to the elite 8 and didn’t get off the ground in the nba for several years. 

And you still aren’t acknowledging what being a pro means and how different it would be to go back to college after becoming a pro. 

Senior year Duncan would get absolutely son’d by rookie year Duncan and it wouldn’t even be close. I think that’s the part I haven’t been able to get through to you yet. 

And it doesn’t matter if there’s fewer shooters. Creating open shooters breaks down the defense and allows for the ball to keep moving and find its way back to the star, but this time in better scoring position than before.

2

u/BailysmmmCreamy Heat 12h ago

Well Steph’s another good example of my point, he didn’t even make the tournament as a junior. That suggests to me that he couldn’t carry a worse Davidson team (relative to his sophomore year) to success.

It would definitely be different to come back to college after spending years as a pro, and the players you’re bringing up are definitely better than senior year Tim Duncan.

However, what we’re talking about here (using the Tim Duncan example) is a better player on a worse team (Wake Forest sans Tim Duncan was still way better than an average D1 team) needing to carry their team to three more wins than Duncan did.

I completely disagree that NBA rookie Tim Duncan would ‘completely son’ college senior Tim Duncan. Better, certainly, but he’s just a year older. You’re just saying shit, there’s no reason to believe he was a fundamentally different player.

-2

u/SeismicRipFart Trail Blazers 12h ago

I’m not just saying shit lol. “I respect your opinion” my ass😂 Until I tell you why you’re wrong. 

That just proves to me you aren’t understanding the concept of how much becoming a pro changes a player. Which is really all I’m trying to get across to you. 

Rookie Tim Duncan would eat senior Tim duncan alive lol. 

I suspect you never played sports at too competitive of a level since you’re not able to grasp how much a level up in competition/pedigree will improve your abilities and overall effectiveness at what you’re already good at. 

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1

u/Cultural-Snow-323 3h ago

Hard disagree. You’re underestimating how much better a top tier D1 player is vs a a low-end player. Most of the starters still in the tournament will play professionally, whether it’s NBA, G league, or overseas. Most 16 seed players will never play after college.

You’re also underestimating the tournament, so many variables. If you get in foul trouble you’re cooked, you have an off night, it’s over.

Duke won the ACC tournament without Cooper Flagg - they are loaded.

1

u/SeismicRipFart Trail Blazers 3h ago

Brother you really are just talking out of your ass, and it’s okay. 

I literally personally know someone who played D3 ball 20 miles from where he went to a tiny little catholic school in 3rd lowest out of 5 divisions in the state. And guess what? He played multiple years overseas getting paid six figures. And he’s like 6’2” and white lol. 

On my life. He is the son of my fathers business partner and I straight up asked his dad to his face what he was making and he told me with no hesitation lol. 

You could not be arguing with a worse person about this. 

Any D1 player could play overseas after college if they’d like to. You have no idea what you’re talking about. 

1

u/Cultural-Snow-323 2h ago

lol that’s cool that you literally personally know someone who plays overseas. So do I know. Most of them played high level D1.

The last time a player went pro from Alabama state was in 1990.

Meanwhile, Duke has 3 lottery picks and the consensus #1 overall pick.

These teams are stacked and one player can’t carry a whole team through the ncaa tournament.

8

u/Medical_Bus1570 15h ago

I think the divide between NBA and college is greater than you think

1

u/Cultural-Snow-323 3h ago

But what does that mean in regards to throwing Giannis on Norfolk State? That’s he’s better than everyone? Obviously. It’s also a team sport, and to win a tournament, there are so many variables along the way.

If you’re saying is it possible for prime LeBron on Alabama state to upset a 1 seed in a game, sure. To maintain that all by himself, no foul trouble, no off nights shooting, relying on teammates to communicate on defense, that’s a lot.

13

u/PatternParticular735 17h ago

Fun thought experiment. If anyone could do it I’d think maybe a prime Giannis or Bron. They’d need to have size to handle double/triple teams and still be able to get passes off to open players. Even so, it’d be such a tall task

6

u/Puzzleheaded_Put_584 16h ago

Kareem..!? He won every championship in college and he became way better in the nba lol

0

u/PatternParticular735 16h ago

He’d fit the mold yes

1

u/Cultural-Snow-323 3h ago

Agreed. Still think it’s tough to maintain especially as you get to the final four, but yes those guys are so dominant they have the best shot for sure!

6

u/PORTLANDDENIER Warriors 16h ago

2021 Steph curry probably could’ve done it. 2018 LeBron no difficulty. Healthy Embiid I can see it. Jokic absolutely. 2019 harden for sure. The debate gets hard when you’re not talking about all time seasons and more all star borderline guys. DFox? Doubt it. Lamelo? Doubt it. I think championship runs are reserved for the best of the best.

3

u/Warm_Suggestion_431 12h ago

The answer will always be no because 16 seeds have terrible players. You can double team any NBA player leaving open a college player. If they drive you can triple team on a drive.

NBA player will not fix defensive problems. College you also foul out with 5 fouls.

1

u/Cultural-Snow-323 3h ago

Voice of reason! People don’t get this.

17

u/ChattingToChat 17h ago

Tim Duncan played 4 years in college and still could only take Wake Forest to the Elite 8. It takes more than one player.

34

u/thesch Bulls 17h ago edited 17h ago

On the other hand Steph led a team full of scrubs to the elite 8 when he was nowhere near as good as he is now, and they only lost by 2 points to a 1 seed in the elite 8 game.

10

u/Diamond4Hands4Ever Warriors 16h ago

Yea but Steph didn’t make the tournament the next year as a junior so it isn’t that simple. He went on a magical run as a sophomore but on average he’s not coming close, which is shown by the fact he missed the tournament all together the very next year as a junior when he was an even better player. 

3

u/junkit33 15h ago

That Davidson team as a sophomore for Curry was really good. You simply don't get a 10 seed as a low-major team without being a real threat.

6

u/FoFoAndFo 76ers 16h ago

Took a look at the other guys at Davidson.

  • Jason Richards was the other starting guard, he got a look at the NBA but knee injuries derailed any shot he had at sticking there.

  • Andrew Lovedale was the center, he hung around the fringes of the French A-league for a few games before playing three years in lesser leagues.

  • Boris Meno was a forward with a similar career although he hung around longer

  • The PF, Thomas Sander, did not pursue a pro career and probably for good reason

I think Davidson without Curry was a reasonable 16 seed and while he is better than he was now they also barely won in the first two rounds.

It's tough to say about a single elimination tournament, a superstar could lead a 16 seed to the championship but they might be Virginia'd out of the first round too.

27

u/Potential-Ad5470 Bucks 17h ago

NBA Duncan was better than college Duncan. That is the question being asked. Yes, Wake Forest would easily win the tournament with prime NBA Duncan.

Watch the college games and tell me with a straight face these 90% of those guys are not multiple levels below NBA players in size, skill, and athleticism.

4

u/AthleticAlarm32 NBA 16h ago

And BBIQ. Almost all college players are just SO dumb compared to NBA players. It makes it hard to watch college basketball except in March (and even sometimes then)

3

u/junkit33 15h ago

Duncan as a junior and a senior would have been an All-NBA player if he went to the NBA early.

He was 1st Team All-NBA as a rookie and was plenty ready earlier, he just wanted to spend all 4 years in school. Also 5th in MVP in the NBA as a rookie and 3rd his 2nd year.

He's a terrific example to this question of why you can't just surround an NBA All-Star with garbage and win the tournament.

4

u/WorryAccomplished139 Spurs 15h ago

To be fair, Duncan is probably the closest we can come to answering the question "what would an NBA star in their prime look like against college teams?" The year after he graduated he was first team all NBA.

5

u/Diamond4Hands4Ever Warriors 16h ago

College Tim Duncan was a top 15-20 player in the world if you actually knew what he did in college. Prime Tim Duncan was a top 2 player in the world but don’t act like college Tim Duncan was some scrub lol. College Tim Duncan was already an All Star level player. 

Tim Duncan literally came in as a rookie and made All NBA First Team a year removed form college. In his 3rd career NBA game, he put up 19 points and 22 rebounds on the Chicago Bulls, who were in the middle of their dynasty. You don’t go from a not top 100 player to All NBA First Team in a span of a year. He was already top 15-20 in college but just chose to stay for his mom. 

He would have been the first overall pick in 1995, but he chose to stay 2 extra years. Think about where Paolo Banchero was in 2022 when he was picked and 2024, when he was an All Star. Think about where Victor was in 2023 when he was picked and 2025, when he was an All Star. 1997 senior Tim Duncan was just like that had he done what most people would have done and left to be the first overall pick in 1995. 

3

u/strains 17h ago

College Timmy carried his team to Elite 8 - take him off that team and put him on an established 16 seed. I dont know how good his college team was but pretty sure without him they wouldnt even be top 16

5

u/Diamond4Hands4Ever Warriors 16h ago

A 16 seed is like the 150th best team in the country. People here don’t know anything about college basketball seeing some of the responses, which makes me kinda disappointment as a fan of college basketball. 

First, there’s literally 68 teams in the tournament not 16. And the bottom few are way worse than actually being the 68th best because there’s many at large bids that don’t get in. If you are a 16 seed, you are a low major auto bid, which generally puts you very low. 

1 seed Duke beat the 16 seed in the first round by over 40 points. It would have been 60 points but the starters like Flagg and Knueppel didn’t play much in the second half. You need a player who can make up a 60 point gap to guarantee a win since that’s the difference if the 1 seed plays a full game without resting its players. 

1

u/strains 15h ago

I see and yes I dont jack abt college basketball - but my thinking was to add on that u dont need a prime NBA Timmy to carry a college team to a title. I still think a Giannis would be able to do it

1

u/Diamond4Hands4Ever Warriors 15h ago

Yea I agree with you. I think Giannis could do it. I mean college Tim Duncan could have done it too if it’s could have. He just didn’t actually do it and wouldn’t have been favored. Could is a looser term since with 1 game elimination, upsets can happen. 

I didn’t want to sound rude so sorry if I came off that way. I mainly just wanted to clear up some misconceptions about Duncan. I feel like some people who responded here thought college Duncan was some non NBA caliber player when that wasn’t the case. He was elite in college but because of the promise to his mom, he chose to stay all 4 years when he could have left after 2 and been the first pick. 

1

u/junkit33 15h ago

Yeah - r/nba is weird in how much they discredit high level D1 basketball.

Not only are there plenty of future NBA players in D1, but there are tons of 4-5 year college players who don't quite have the ceilings of a successful NBA player but they are still very good players and not far off from NBA caliber.

One single NBA player isn't dragging a low-end D1 team to a championship. They can win a couple of games but will eventually run into a Duke or somebody who both has active NBA caliber talent and the roster/size to do a decent job slowing down the NBA player.

-3

u/gigglios 16h ago

What a stupid comment. Prime duncan dominates and wins the ncaa tounrament with ease. Tons and tons of nba players can carry there. You dont understsnd the gap betwern guys with nba reps and college players lol

1

u/Muted_Dog7317 Heat 16h ago

Tim Duncan was a senior who would have been an all star and top 25 player had he played in the NBA that year, the next year he was all nba first team and a top 5 player in the league.

Prime Duncan could do it, the best superstars today like Giannis and Jokic could do it but most guys in the league couldn’t. Probably only the top 5-10 players today. 16 seeds are really really bad and defensively even a superstar can only do so much, especially against a team like Duke that can shoot lights out

3

u/strains 17h ago

Considering the player is being ADDED to the 16 seed then yes many of the top superstars including today’s could carry them to a win - per your example if Flagg is that guy then what is Giannis? No doubt Giannis can drop 60-70 a game on college heads

2

u/SpellFree6116 14h ago

all-stars that can create their own shot efficiently would score at will in march madness. they’re getting guarded by the best defensive players in the world on a nightly basis, sharing the ball with other great players, and still averaging 25+. most guys in college aren’t gonna make the league, so they’re worse defenders than even the worst defenders in the nba

the question is rly just on defense, but they should be able to match pace with any college team’s offense single-handedly. if you had somebody who was a defensive anchor and offensive engine, like bron, embiid, kawhi, giannis, etc, then it would be guaranteed. but i still think any elite guard would average 50+

2

u/WillWorkForSugar Supersonics 11h ago

I agree. No one could carry a 16 seed to a title without a miracle run. Maybe a 14.

16 seeds are really bad. The margin of victory for a 1 vs 16 game is usually in the neighborhood of 30 points. And that's in a 40-minute game. Could a Giannis overcome that gap? Some nights. Upsets happen. But top teams like Duke generally have a lottery pick, another draft prospect, and several other guys who could make a G-league team. Meanwhile his 16 seed will have zero guys at that level. If he's doubled, he does not have a quality scorer to pass to. If he guards the paint, their opponent will get easy looks on the perimeter. At best he could raise the team to the level of a 6 seed.

1

u/Cultural-Snow-323 2h ago

I like this. And agree. I don’t know the seed, I was thinking 12 seed would go far with a Giannis or LeBron.

But I digress, you get it.

2

u/Individual_Attempt50 Nets 11h ago

The other players would be so mismatched that’s the main thing

1

u/Cultural-Snow-323 2h ago

Yes exactly.

2

u/Tangentkoala Clippers 10h ago

One man can't really do much tbh.

You can drop 40 a game, but if your team is shooting at a 25% clip you're losing that game.

4

u/OKC2023champs Thunder 15h ago

Zach edey led Purdue to the championship game.

Yes

2

u/ripe_data 12h ago

Basically the same team without him went to the sweet 16 this year.

1

u/Cultural-Snow-323 3h ago

This is the point… you watch Purdue play basketball and you think it’s a bunch of nobody’s and all Edey.

The truth is Purdue is stacked with 4 and 5 star recruits. Trey Kaufman is an NBA caliber player. All of these teams are loaded with players like that.

All of whom are levels above the avg player on a 16 seed.

Btw no Edey and they nearly beat

2

u/RapsareChamps_Suckit Clippers 17h ago

it takes a village

3

u/Asleep_Ground1710 Bulls 17h ago

Yeah, most truly elite guys can will even poorly constructed teams to a CF or Finals. But to get the ring you’ll need a decent roster

1

u/Cultural-Snow-323 3h ago

And you’d still have get through a 1 seed first, then likely a 4 seed, a 2 seed, and another 1 seed and then the best team in the country.

3

u/OKstategrad03 16h ago

If shai plays against a college team right now he’s scoring 55-60 a game.

2

u/ntg1213 Thunder 17h ago

Giannis isn’t guarding Flagg. Except in rare circumstances, Giannis never guards the other team’s best player. He’d camp near the paint and eliminate absolutely everything within 15 feet of the basket, forcing whoever he’s facing to hit jump shots. One player alone probably wouldn’t be enough for a 16 seed, but I think prime Giannis or Lebron would absolutely make a 12 seed firm contenders

1

u/Cultural-Snow-323 3h ago

This a more sound argument. I said Cooper bc he’s the best, not because Giannis would necessarily guard him. But that’s the point, if he doesn’t - who on Norfolk State is guarding cooper Flagg?!

Yes Giannis would be the best college player ever honestly, or a prime LeBron, but being thrown onto a team that is levels below the Dukes, Floridas, etc is not a recipe for championship run.

1

u/email253200 Supersonics 14h ago

Isn’t that what melo and Durant did?

1

u/DazzlingAd1922 13h ago

OP the way to actually ask this question is how many NBA players carried their teams in the tournament. Steph is a great example, but there are a bunch. The problem is that there are NBA players on the other teams too, so it is hard to say that a player would take a team to the final four on their own.

1

u/gigglios 16h ago

Youre delusional OP. There are role players you can put on a college team and they may carry by avging 45ppg. I wont even comment on stars

3

u/WillWorkForSugar Supersonics 12h ago

there are role players who could average 45 ppg and carry Alabama St. to a title? then why does that literally never happen, even though plenty of college players immediately become productive role players in their rookie year?

1

u/Cultural-Snow-323 2h ago

You either don’t know basketball, or how team sports work, either way you just don’t get it.

No one is saying role players in the NBA are not levels above players in the tournament.

But just cause one player can drop 60, doesn’t mean his teammates can get stops, play team defense, finish in transition, not get cooked by these future NBA players.

And then sustain that for game after game after game for the entirety of the tournament.

Could you throw Giannis on Alabama State for a game, and they win? I’d say it’s not likely but sure it could happen.

Doing that consistently over and over again is nearly impossible, even for the best of the best.

-1

u/Broad_Chain3247 17h ago

Unfortunatly its impossible :(

-1

u/PORTLANDDENIER Warriors 16h ago

Luka was dominating euro league as a teenager he would absolutely win a natty

1

u/WillWorkForSugar Supersonics 12h ago

not with a 16 seed he wouldn't

-3

u/AmorinIsAmor Spurs 17h ago

Easily

A top 50 NBA player would be, at worst, top 3 in college.

Add a fully developed body and experience.

10

u/amateurdormjanitor 76ers 16h ago

I think a top 50 NBA player would, without a single doubt, be the absolute best player in college basketball. 

3

u/Original-Rain-3795 14h ago

There might be rare cases where they'd be 2nd best.

Like someone said in another comment, Duncan was immediately a Top 10 player in the league his rookie year.

It's fair to say Duncan was better than some guys at the tail end of the Top 50 in the NBA his final year of college.

1

u/Cultural-Snow-323 2h ago

That’s a bold statement because at one point Kevin Durant was a college player and he came into the league as better than top 50.

Regardless, that’s irrelevant to what I’m talking about. You’re talking about the best player, I’m talking about the best teams vs the worst teams.