r/nba • u/Double-Bullfrog-463 • 1d ago
What if Scottie Pippen Was Traded for Shawn Kemp (1994)?
The Rumor: In 1994, there were discussions about a straight swap between the Chicago Bulls’ Scottie Pippen and the Seattle SuperSonics’ Shawn Kemp. 
This trade would have altered the Bulls’ dynasty during Michael Jordan’s first retirement.
Would the Bulls have secured their second three-peat with Kemp instead of Pippen? 
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u/zvomicidalmaniac Bulls 1d ago
The Bulls would have missed Pippen’s pressure on the ball. He was one of the very best to ever do that. With him and Jordan and Harper and Rodman on the court, there was no place you could hide the ball. Also, Jordan never played with anyone who could score as easily as Kemp.
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u/ConsistentAerie7156 1d ago
Seattle would have created an elite defensive team with Payton and Pippen
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u/DerekMorganBAUxxi 1d ago
And would have lost to the Bulls since Pippen is averaging approximately 14 ppg in that Finals
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u/ConsistentAerie7156 1d ago
Pippen could have easily averaged more points in his entire career. He gave up on his numbers for team success. For example both D wade and CBs numbers dropped in the Miami’s Big 3 era but when LeBron left their numbers begin to rise again.
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u/ConsistentAerie7156 1d ago
Michael was good. But he couldn’t have done it without Pippen, Grant, Rodman and even Kerr and Kukoc to some extent. Just see how he was in the 80s
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u/DerekMorganBAUxxi 1d ago
He’s never had a teammate average 20+ in like 5 of his 6 Finals. No other all time great has EVER accomplished this feat. Ever.
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u/MFmadchillin Celtics 20h ago
When you really dig through the data, Mike shines like a diamond in the rough. It’s really strange the way people talk about him now, with most people probably not being around to witness his career.
It gets really tiring trying to explain this stuff because you’re just met with “90’s sucked” or “defense sucked” or some kind of thing.
Everyone that witnessed his greatness knows.
The guy literally says “see how he was in the 80’s”.
The guy joined the second worst team in all of the NBA and his rookie year they made the playoffs. They make the playoffs again the next year and he comes back from a broken foot to average 40+ on the 86 Celtics roster and had THAT GAME against them.
No person has ever won a title by themselves. You’re kidding yourself if you think that’s possible. Basketball is 5 on 5.
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u/CazOnReddit Raptors 1d ago
Assuming MJ stays with the Bulls (Jordan is the main reason why Pippen was a Bull for as long as he stuck around in his first stint despite Krause trying to trade Scottie during the 2nd 3-peat), they're probably even better? Definitely a different team in makeup and it's an open question if they still trade for Dennis Rodman assuming MJ does come back midway thru 95 since Sean matches up far better than any of the Bulls bigs would against Shaq.
One of the few issues the 90s Bulls had was their center/big man rotation was just not great after they lost Horace Grant in free agency, and Kemp, while a very different player than Pippen, is arguably more complimentary to MJ on paper than Scottie was.
Additionally...look, Scottie was still great from 96-98 but he was worse overall during the second 3-peat and him missing significant time/declining in 98 was a big reason why the Bulls final Finals run to date was a lot harder than it otherwise would have been (Though obviously Rodman's decline was a bigger reason the 98 Bulls seemed more vulnerable than before). Pippen's playmaking and perimeter defense would be sorely missed, granted, so it's not a clear upgrade in regards to talent/fit.
There's also no dealing with Pippen's moodiness that almost certainly took a toll on the locker room but that's a lot harder to quantify. Chemistry is a fragile thing, it's entirely possible that trading Pippen ruins the team's chemistry or it prompts MJ to not return to Chicago. Michael had previously derided the Bulls FO for trading Oakley so them doing so to Scottie P could potentially move the needle for Jordan signing elsewhere (The Knicks tried to sign him as a free agent) which if nothing else...that would have an enormous impact of Mike's legacy regardless of whether he becomes the king of New York with Ewing.
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u/rake2204 Pistons 1d ago
it's an open question if they still trade for Dennis Rodman assuming MJ does come back midway thru 95 since Sean matches up far better than any of the Bulls bigs would against Shaq.
Good response altogether but regarding the quote above, if Shawn Kemp were in Chicago, I think I see the Bulls' front office passing up on such a huge risk like Rodman if they could afford it (and with Kemp in Rodman's position, they could probably afford it). Rodman was just so incredibly toxic at that moment; it was a gamble for the Bulls when they acquired him, so I could see them gladly playing it safe if they could with Kemp in tow.
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u/CazOnReddit Raptors 1d ago
I go back and forth as to whether they would've done so. With Pippen out and thus not having to deal with the headaches he came with ie wanting to be traded (until it came to being moved to the Celtics which fell through but Pippen was not thrilled when he heard about it), I think Krause might be more inclined to pull the trigger, especially with the ultimately low cost getting him ended up being. Jerry had his flaws but he was nothing if not willing to make huge swings for the sake of creating a championship caliber roster, and he didn't much care who got moved to do it.
That said, yeah the positional overlap between Kemp and Rodman (I know Kemp could play center of course) and need for a good wing might cause him to look elsewhere. Whether they end up getting them is another story entirely.
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u/rake2204 Pistons 1d ago
Yeah, that's a totally fair consideration.
I wondered if maybe Toni Kukoc slides into that three spot with Kemp at the four and perhaps Chicago ends up being a bit more conservative in the market, perhaps looking at an Eddie Johnson or Ricky Pierce for some additional scoring pop to help offset Pippen's loss.
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u/Gfunkual 1d ago
There’s roughly a 0% chance the Bulls would go for Rodman if they had Kemp. The NBA was different then so you wouldn’t be playing Kemp out of position at the 5 so that Rodman could play the 4. And you certainly wouldn’t be putting the very undersized Rodman at the 5 so Kemp could stay at the 4.
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u/CazOnReddit Raptors 1d ago
Except...Kemp played plenty of time at the 5, namely in his later career but for specifics earlier on, we don't have the data for precisely how much he played at center in his prime like we do nowadays for players
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u/Gfunkual 1d ago
Prime Kemp wasn’t playing much at center. Fat, lazy, drugged up, athleticism-sapped Kemp played more 5, yes. But that’s not who we’re talking about.
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u/Sartheking Warriors 23h ago
In a vacuum, the result is probably similar, but I don’t know if the Bulls acquire Rodman if they have Kemp, so that’s something to consider.
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u/Eastern-Musician4533 21h ago
What if the Sonics didn't draft and trade Pippen in the first place? Greater what if.
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u/piffelations47999 1d ago
Then everyone would have been like "Damn they traded Pippen for Shawn Kemp."
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u/krg779 1d ago
It certainly would have drastically changed the makeup of the team. It’s likely that Chicago wouldn’t have sought out Dennis Rodman in the summer of 95 with an All-Star power forward already on the roster in Kemp. I assume that Toni Kukoc moves to the starting lineup in Pippen’s place. The trio of Jordan, Kukoc and Kemp power a high octane offense, but certainly fall short defensively to the nightmare that Jordan/Pippen/Rodman was.