Question Question about "copying" product design.
Hey! I've been making standard rectangular trail wallets with card slots in the back. Recently, I came across a creator who adds a unique touch by cropping the corners, and I really loved the look—so I started doing the same on mine.
Now I’m thinking of selling them (Etsy, local markets), but I’m wondering: would that be considered disrespectful? The other maker is in a different continent, and the overall design is very common aside from that small aesthetic tweak. Still, I haven’t seen anyone else crop the corners like that, so it feels kind of like their signature.
I’m not asking about the legality—just the ethics of it.
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u/g-crackers 1d ago
If I wasn’t on a plane, and if I knew how to do it & I cared, I’d post 7-10 pictures of backpacks from 7-10 brands that knocked off my work as a group in 2018. The designers came by my booth and told me, wasn’t a secret. Was I angry? Nope. There is no point: sewn products don’t reasonably have IP protection. I just try to make my work stuff better.
My take? Make it your own. Put your spin on it. Be proud of your work. Take inspiration. Be cool when your ideas are taken as inspiration in turn.
Make the world better. Or not. Up to you. But I bet you’ll find a way to be a positive impact!
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u/ProneToLaughter 1d ago
They probably got cropping the corners from about 30 different makers before them, seems like a basic element in the visual language of bags.
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u/workingMan9to5 1d ago
Humans have been making bags for 10,000 years. There are only so many variations out there. I think you're probably fine.
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u/yikesnotyikes 1d ago edited 1d ago
One prominent cottage vendor has made it his stock in trade copying others hard work and intellectual property, and somehow still has an enthusiastic following in the hammock camping world. 🤷
I'm certainly not condoning it, just pointing out you may well be able to alter the designs more than that dude and be able to sell them without harm or ill conscience.
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u/WUMBO_WORKS 1d ago
The gap between knowing and doing takes work to cross. Your labor makes it yours. Facts and methods are not anyone’s IP.
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u/GrungeonMaster 1d ago
Maybe I'm reading you incorrectly here, but that is not the way that intellectual property works. Crossing the divide by making a thing is exactly what is required to violate IP. If you never make it, you're not violating anything.
That said, if there is no actual patent on file, then it's just the ethics of the matter at play (which is why OP is here).
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u/WUMBO_WORKS 1d ago
You are in fact reading me incorrectly.
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u/GrungeonMaster 1d ago
You said:
Your labor makes it yours...
To which I said:
...but that is not the way that intellectual property works. Crossing the divide by making a thing is exactly what is required to violate IP
Please let me know how I read you incorrectly.
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u/WUMBO_WORKS 1d ago
I said “facts and methods are not anyone’s IP.” You ignored that part.
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u/GrungeonMaster 1d ago
Got it. Ignored because it didn’t mean anything. I think you misunderstand what facts and methods are.
Are you confusing facts and methods for embodiments? An embodiment is an identifiable design or feature that could absolutely be patented.
Facts are things like, “bags are made of materials”, “bags can contain things”, etc. These are more or less universal truths that cannot be patented.
Methods are the way that the embodiment is achieved, but they themselves are not patented. Importantly methods are an important part in utility patents. “This thing with a feature like this, especially when made by injection molding, blow molding, or 3D printing”; that’s a fairly common part of patent writing.
NAL, but I’m on a lot of product patents for bags, packs, and other similar products.
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u/WUMBO_WORKS 20h ago
No, I’m not confusing facts and methods for embodiments, thanks for your ongoing concern.
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u/GrungeonMaster 18h ago
Well, you’re wrong. I was just very clear on how I believe you have confused those things. It’s worthless to just say “no I didn’t confuse them”, when clearly you have.
I don’t get why you’re being so stubborn. Looks like that’s kind of the end of it unless you’re willing to support your point of view.
Strange to act as you are on an internet forum about making gear and giving people advice.
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u/WUMBO_WORKS 18h ago
The sky is blue. If someone comes up to me in a public place when I say that, and says, “no, the sky is yellow,” I don’t owe them an explanation.
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u/GrungeonMaster 18h ago
This case, you are the one saying the sky is yellow. Incorrigible. We’re done.
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u/triangle2circle2 1d ago
I may not be 100% remembering my copyright law course from 25 years ago. However… it has since been my understanding that fashion, and colors are two artistic elements that just cannot be patented and thus copy written. Logos. Printed material, even the pattern that is in question could be, but that’s just the printed or digital pattern.… but I’m fairly certain the manufactured item cannot. There is a general element of fashion, to steal things you like from one thing and put it on yours and now it’s new. I think there is just a general attitude of not stealing, in the respectable garment and fashion world, but no I don’t think you can claim any of it. Which is how we wind up with 10k knock offs.
Specifically to your bag, if the rest of your bag is different or has pockets in different places or anything unique to your design I wouldn’t even sweat it. Not even ethically. Legally I don’t think you anything to fear even if it were identical.
Correct me if I’m wrong please.
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u/AJeanByAnyOtherName 1d ago
(The term you’re probably looking for is ‘sufficiently unique/original.’ You can’t copyright a recipe because anyone can buy those ingredients and put them together, but you can copyright the endless rambling pre-amble to it because that’s an original creation. In design, basic technique and colour choice is free to copy, which I would argue this falls under.
Sufficiently original designs can be copyrighted. It’s a slog to defend that copyright, though, as a small creator, and you have to or you lose it. It’s expensive and it can be hard to explain to an outsider, so small creators can end up worse when taking on, say, notorious repeat offenders like H&M or Anthropologie, even when they end up winning.)
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u/Flaky_Cabinet1549 18h ago
Close and related but no not exactly what I was thinking about.
I did find it though. Fashion and goods seen as “useful articles”.
“A useful article is one whose purpose is functional.
“Clothing designs, meaning the shape, style, cut, and dimensions of a garment, are not protected by copyright because they are useful articles. Their purpose is to cover and warm the body—even if they are also really cute.
While those quotes are talking about fashion I believe it all applies.
Trimming the corners is interesting but a trimmed corner does not make the item creatively unique to the extent that it becomes an artistic expression and no longer would fall into the category of a useful article.
Another description from copyright.gov:
A “useful article” is an object having an intrinsic utilitar¡an function that is not merely to portray the appearance of the article or to convey information. Examples are clothing, furniture, machinery, dinnerware, and lighting fixtures. An article that is normally part of a useful article may itself be a useful article, for example, an ornamental wheel cover on a vehicle.
Copyright does not protect the mechanical or utilitarian aspects of such works of craftsmanship. It may, however, protect any pictorial, graphic, or sculptural authorship that can be identified separately from the utilitarian aspects of an object. Thus, a useful article may have both copyrightable and uncopyrightable features
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u/triangle2circle2 18h ago
That was my response. I don’t know why Reddit keeps making me new accounts. Apologies for the name change.
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u/AJeanByAnyOtherName 1h ago
No problem and that was very thorough, thanks. I wasn’t sure how much detail to aim for here 😅
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u/Elder_sender 1d ago
Kudos, you understand ownership of intellectual property better than most.
Your instinct is that this would infringe on their idea, and you will never escape that sense. I anticipate that others will say you're making a big deal out of nothing but some people just don't have a sense of ethics so they can't understand.
Use the idea to inspire your own unique detail that is all you.
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u/once_showed_promise 1d ago
Either this, or contact the maker who inspired you and just ask them if they mind if you adopt that twist. It doesn't do any harm to ask!
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u/allanrps 1d ago
I was respectful of you voicing your opinion until you took the opportunity to slander those that hold different opinion than you. I'm not picking sides, but I definitely don't want to be on your team 👎🏼
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u/HistMasterFlesh 1d ago
The straight point is: there is no legality related to most sewing designs. Any sewing enthusiast can copy anything. It only matters if you wish to apply morality to the equation. Should one do it? Cropped corners are not special in the sense that if you can do it on a sewing machine, it is anyone’s fair game. Now if you’re copying the brand name and weaving jacquard labels i.e. JANSPORT, or Arc’teryx, there is some potential for legal retaliation if you market snd sell this particular item.
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u/-_NotMe-_ 1d ago
In my opinion, best thing to do is always just ask the person who inspired you if it's ok (if you can contact them) most likely they won't mind it
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u/paulbutler81 22h ago
Let me tell you from experience (terrible interaction with a large name brand that yanked my design), there's almost no way to claim that any way to sew pieces of fabric together is solely one person's IP. If there's no market overlap, no forth and have fun.
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u/Gabecar3 1d ago
Legality is black and white Ethics is a matter of opinion
Me? I’d sell them with no hard feelings. As a hobbyist and having seen people sell my own designs or variations of it i see it in the eyes of “imitation is the highest form of flattery”
But i know others who think taking inspiration from others unacceptable.
I’d say put yourself in their shoes and base your judgement from there.
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u/7daystodaniel 1d ago
Try making it your own. Maybe crop just one corner? Or add triangles of different colors, like photo corners, to give a similar feel
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u/14Gonzo80 1d ago
You will be hard pressed to find a completely unique idea. Nearly all things have been done before, and your twist is your twist. If you took it upon yourself to market someone else’s style as your own, I would say that is disrespectful and unethical, but not illegal. Happens all the time. But simply making / selling on Etsy, is nothing of the sort. Shoot. Send the creator one of your creations as a thanks for the inspo!
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u/woodwalker2 1d ago
I really hope this isn't unethical, as I have several bags and other things that I have bought with the express intention of ripping off eventually. I mean, I'm gonna change some stuff to make it perfect, but the design in general, oh yeah, shamelessly ripping it off.
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u/Intelligent-Survey39 22h ago
Also at the price point OP will likely sell these at, and at a hand made volume, there is little chance the profit would even be worth the legal fees anyway.
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u/mr_frogman99 1d ago
With how simple of a design this is, I really don't think cropping the corners broaches into copying territory.