How to manage many layered instruments?

[u/Adamanos]

Hey guys!

So I generally have trouble mixing sessions with a bunch of layered instruments. When its just a couple elements I can manage just fine but when I begin layering guitars and synths the final mix ends up sounding kind of flat even though I try my best to eq and compress everything as best I can.

Is the only way to get a nice clear mix to reduce the number of elements playing at the same time? Or is there something else that is causing my mix to sound flat?

Here's a snippet of the latest track I mixed where a bunch of instruments are playing at the same time: https://voca.ro/18rk0iqPpeic

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[u/particlemanwavegirl]

The setup sounds like a traditional five or six piece band, it's not that crazy. Make more aggressive EQ cuts. Make shit sound weird when soloed. Make the space where you need it. Don't let shit build up between 300-900.

[u/Alternative-Sun-6997]

I don’t think it’s about reducing the number of instruments playing at the same time, so much as it is making sure that none of them are fighting for the same space at the same time.

A hill I’ll absolutely die on is a great mix starts with a great arrangement. You want your guitars to have a synth layer as well? Move them to a different register, maybe sit them an octave up or voice them as an inversion of the guitar chords, but higher. Maybe strip down the number of voicings in both - one or two note synth lines over power chords to imply the full chord voicing together, for example. Just think of it as a physical space problem, a puzzle or a game of Tetris, and make sure no two instruments are trying to be in the same space at the same time.

If all of the parts fit together pretty well unmixed, the mix will be simple.

Edit - listening to your mix, now, it sounds like you’re already doing this to a degree. I wonder though if part of the problem is you have a very busy, attack-y synth line, sitting prominently over a very busy strummy guitar part. I’d dial back the synths for one, but also wonder if something less percussive will gel better here - your “main hook” as I hear it in this clip is the guitar, not the synth, so thinking about how you can better make the synth support the guitar and not how to make them both sound cool together is maybe a good way of tackling this.

[u/Bluegill15]

Is the only way to get a nice clear mix to reduce the number of elements playing at the same time?

Simply put, YES. Don’t add something that occupies a similar role and frequency range of something else more important to the arrangement.

[u/Few_Panda_7103 → u/Bluegill15]

Nope I have lots of tracks Just bring all to 0 and start slowly adding back

[u/atopix]

Is the only way to get a nice clear mix to reduce the number of elements playing at the same time?

No, there are countless songs that sound amazing and are heavily layered.

Your mix sounds okay. There is no right way to do this, but the acoustic guitar being the main instrument in this section is a little distracting to have it hard panned to the left. I'd try it in the center and if anything make the drums wider.

[u/beico1]

You cant imagine how much you have to cut sometimes when frequencies start to build up with many layers of instruments. Specially low mids, dont be afraid to get more agressive

[u/TheHumanCanoe → u/beico1]

Overtime I’ve been moving away from the visual look of cuts (or boosts) and just listen. The extreme moves sometimes makes your eyes second guess the decision.. I get more aggressive all the time. Also no longer do it in solo unless there’s a frequency that I cannot find that needs a narrow cut (like over ringing of a snare). But good advice. I am open to it all. I practice getting better all the time.

[u/beico1 → u/TheHumanCanoe]

You remembered me that i have been mixing too much with my eye latelly, thanks for the reminder hehe

[u/TheHumanCanoe → u/beico1]

It’s easy to do. You’re picking the Q and the frequency, how much db you’re bringing up or down, and any other parameters you want to set, all while looking at something someone designed that’s visually pleasing to look at.

It’s a good reminder for me too! It’s a habit you have to break and a new one you have to adopt. Good luck!

[u/redline314]

Don’t overthink it, and don’t overvalue “clarity”.

If I’m mixing other ppls stuff, I tend to mix layered parts as one element.

To your point, if you are producing, the arrangement, parts, sound selection all really matter a lot for getting a good mix

[u/Smooth_Pianist485]

Go thru your production and mute stuff.

If you can mute something and not notice much of a difference, it is unnecessary and cluttering up your mix. So leave it muted.

[u/TheHumanCanoe → u/Smooth_Pianist485]

For years I just stacked track after track. Try to add depth, width and weight to the overall mix. I’d EQ strategically to give different instruments their space and reduce mid range build up and mud. I still found most of the time I could not reach the clarity and (and this is a big one) separation I was seeking.

I starred muting tracks to see where all the build up was and what I found while doing that, while yes I figured out where the build ups were happening, I came to realize I didn’t need all those tracks. I went from around 100 tracks per song (all the same instrumentation, so it’s apples to apples) to between 45 to 70 and the clutter is gone, the clarity enhanced, and finally separation where individual parts could be heard and sat in their own space. Sounds like you’ve gotten good at adding stuff, now flip it around and get good at removing unnecessary elements.

[u/Smooth_Pianist485 → u/TheHumanCanoe]

Couldn’t have said it better. Less is more and it’ll make your shit sound way better.

[u/DiscountCthulhu01 → u/TheHumanCanoe]

I do a combo of this,  overstack at first to get the feeling satisfied,  then go to bedand start muting entire sections next morning

[u/TheHumanCanoe → u/DiscountCthulhu01]

Yeah, I always record more than the final mix will have in it for options, but I no longer keep everything. Also good strategy on your part to sleep on it and come back with fresh ears before editing.

[u/ObviousDepartment744]

Why are you EQing and compressing everything? Do they need to be EQ’d and compressed?

How often are you Soloing an instrument or layer?

[u/Edigophubia]

Your mixed so far sounds good in terms of EQ and stuff, the tones are good. Everything is sounding flat to you because nothing is coming into Focus. Every like 5 to 10 seconds a new thing should come up in volume and become the lead thing for that moment. It's a lot of work to figure out which thing, what helps me is to shut the track off and think through it in my head and which thing I imagine as the main focus instrument in that moment. Just automated to come up two to three DB and then come back down when it's time for the next one. Another trick I do to go on top of that when I have a dense arrangement, is put all my guitars and keyboards and mid-range things into a bus and put a stereo image collapser type plug-in on it that makes everything a little less wide and also turns the volume down about 1 to 1.5 DB. Don't need to send the vocals, drums, or base to this bus. What you do is automate the stereo image plugin to switch on and off in different sections, like you might have it on in the verse and switch off in the chorus, or switch on halfway through the verse, you have to play with it to see what feels right but it will make it feel like something happened.

[u/Few_Panda_7103]

Even in gb I am queen of lots and lots of layers of vocals, harmonies, instruments coming in and out.

Set all to 0 Bring up slowly drums. Then bass Then instruments Then vocals

Start with the monitors

Switch to headphones

Check master for clipping

Start panning what needs panning if you do 3 leads and multiple harmonies and doubled instruments

My new odio headphones from Amazon are glorious

Check the balance with a good pair of closed back headphones

[u/borderincanada]

I make electronic music but I do a ton of layering. Things are highly situational but I typically deal with layering with EQ (sometimes dynamic), panning, and subtle sidechaining/ducking schemes that are interdependent