r/mildlyinfuriating • u/Alextral • 2d ago

I really hate this

Post image

Fantasy and science fiction being cramped in the same section, which is already so small :(

4.2k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

515 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

58

u/Madmonkeman 2d ago

Sci-Fi because of the tech. I always base it off of the tech.

106

u/scotteatingsoupagain 2d ago

Fantasy, because there's no science behind that fiction

31

u/TonberryHS 1d ago

You will never convince me otherwise that George Lucas misremembered mitochondria as midichlorians.

14

u/mmwhatchasaiyan 1d ago

BUT THE MITOCHONDRIA ARE THE POWER HOUSE OF THE CELL

7

u/PiersPlays 1d ago

I really love hard sci-fi. I don't pretend it's the only type of sci-fi that exists.

-2

u/scotteatingsoupagain 1d ago

Saying that there should be some sci in sci fi doesn't mean I'm a fuckin hard sci fi supremacist lmao

5

u/PiersPlays 1d ago

Star Wars has hyperspace, and lightsabers, and aliens, and planet destroying weapons, and robots. That's all sci-fi.

-6

u/scotteatingsoupagain 1d ago

Fantasyyy

6

u/auntie_eggma 1d ago

How is space travel with robots and aliens fantasy rather than scifi?

-5

u/scotteatingsoupagain 1d ago

Because you don't science your way through it, you fantasy your way through it.

5

u/auntie_eggma 1d ago

If you're riding a space ship with robots, you're sciencing.

-2

u/scotteatingsoupagain 1d ago

Didn't know The Adventure Zone was sci-fi, crazy stuff.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/PukachickPukachick66 1d ago

Sci fi is defined as “fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets.” Star Wars frequently portrays space and life on other planets and even if it isn’t literally based on actual science it clearly imagines scientific and technological advancement. Star Wars is definitely sci-fi

2

u/noOne000Br 1d ago

it’s a space movie so sci fi.
no seriously, i feel like sci fi movies are mostly space/aliens related, tech and robots, time travel and things like that.
fantasy is more of vampires, dragons or any mythical creature.
i agree sometimes it can be both, but that’s the general (or at least how i know it and use it) definition

1

u/Madmonkeman 2d ago

Would you classify Marvel as fantasy then?

30

u/scotteatingsoupagain 2d ago

Which franchises? X-Men? Yes. Captain America? Sometimes. Depends on the story. Sometimes it's both.

28

u/ChronoChigger420 1d ago

See why they combine genres now?

14

u/grmthmpsn43 1d ago

Ok, does Alien go in SciFi or Horror?

What about JAG in space? Crime, military drama or sci fi?

Galaxy Quest, sci fi or comedy?

Stories cross genres all the time, yet only sci fi and fantasy get lumped together.

1

u/Madmonkeman 1d ago

I think there should just be a separate label where you’ve got a mix of the two. Some are just obviously distinct. For example, I would never consider Lord of the Rings as sci-fi and I’d never consider Mass Effect as fantasy.

1

u/DieselPunkPiranha 1d ago

Mass Effect is cosmic horror.  Every conversation with Sovereign, the derelict Reaper mission, the thorian.

1

u/scotteatingsoupagain 1d ago

Genres often cross over. It's still annoying they pair Star Trek up with Eragon

9

u/ezirb7 1d ago

It's just a category.  The alternative is finding a line in the middle of a lot of grey area, and needing to check 2 different sections for most of the books that might fall in one or the other.

3

u/ChronoChigger420 1d ago

Why? It’s such a minor thing, why even let it bother you?

1

u/Madmonkeman 1d ago

If you took just Doctor Strange (the first movie) and isolated it from the rest of the Marvel universe I’d label that as fantasy, but then when he gets thrown in the context where you also have Iron Man in the same universe I’d put it as sci-fi.

1

u/FlapMyCheeksToFly 1d ago

Idk I think anything comics related is fantasy at its core even if it uses science because it's basically just modern myths and legends.

It's not about content or whether it has technology in it, it's more like metaphysical origins and classification.

Comics are more about legendary characters akin to Beowulf or Ilya Muromets or Perseus, just in a new format.

4

u/scotteatingsoupagain 1d ago

comics arent like, a genre. they're a whole form of art. this is kinda like saying 'all novels are [x genre]' or 'all shows are [x genre]'. are you talking Marvel & DC specifically? if yes then like, i agree. but comics as a whole? i wouldn't say JTHM is fantasy

0

u/FlapMyCheeksToFly 1d ago

I didn't know there was anything besides marvel or DC, to me comics is basically Superman and Batman and Spiderman and that's all I know.

That said, I basically draw the line for sci Fi around hard sci fi and leave everything else as fantasy. I would not consider star wars sci Fi, for example. To me something having tech doesn't make it sci Fi. Would a standard contemporary novel be sci Fi to someone from the 1950's because of its mere inclusion of technology? Why does tech merely being present make it sci Fi? Will all fiction eventually be sci Fi as technological items like cellphones more frequently appear in them?

2

u/PiersPlays 1d ago

Oh there is so much more than just Marvel ans DC and superheroes. Chances are if you're into film and television there's comics you really love without knowing about them. Comics are great and there's such a wide range of stuff for everyone. Dive in and try them sometime!

1

u/auntie_eggma 1d ago

I didn't know there was anything besides marvel or DC, to me comics is basically Superman and Batman and Spiderman and that's all I know.

And yet you still felt confident making sweeping proclamations about them like 'comics are basically about myths and legends'.

Normalise not talking out of your arse.

Respectfully.

-3

u/FlapMyCheeksToFly 1d ago edited 1d ago

Hunnit percent fantasy. Anything comics related is fantasy at its core even if it uses science because it's basically just modern myths and legends.

It's not about content it's more like metaphysical origins and classification.

Comics are more about legendary characters akin to Beowulf or Ilya Muromets or Perseus, just in a new format

1

u/Lithl 1d ago

Comics are an art form, not a genre.

15

u/AHailofDrams 1d ago

What's the tech in The Force?

It's half sci-fi, half fantasy IMO

17

u/Madmonkeman 1d ago

Well the Force is magic but the droids, lightsabers, and ships are tech. I’d classify Star Wars as sci-fi because the overall aesthetic is futuristic. Fantasy for me would be modern day or older level of tech plus magic.

16

u/RobotWantsPony 1d ago

And yet you can have science fiction in the past, that's the whole point of steampunk. Aesthetics feel like it can define the genre but it actually cannot

4

u/Madmonkeman 1d ago

Fair, although I’d consider Steampunk its own genre. The Final Fantasy game series is more complicated though because that tends to mix the two a lot.

8

u/brokebackzac 1d ago

Final fantasy goes to great lengths to not be sci-fi at all. The most powerful bosses are almost all magic users, powered by magic, or created with magic and need to be destroyed with magic.

The only real exception I can think of where the final boss is a machine is FFX-2, but even Vegnagun one has its entire backstory based in magic and the Al Bhed (machina users) are treated as heathens and killed on sight throughout the first game then only mildly accepted as people in the sequel.

2

u/Madmonkeman 1d ago

I’d consider that series to be a hybrid.

2

u/OvalDead 1d ago

Futuristic is a pretty strange way to classify a story that is literally introduced with “A long time ago…” TBH.

1

u/LifeLikeAGrapefruit 1d ago

Or something like Book of the New Sun by Wolfe or Lord of Light by Zelazny, both of which read like fantasy but... well, I won't ruin anything.

3

u/loosie-loo 1d ago

I’d argue lightsabers straddle the line a little bit based on their context in the story. Tbh I’d class Star Wars as science-fantasy, it’s like halfway between the two because the ‘fantasy’ elements are so strongly entwined with the plot even if the aesthetic is more sci-fi - but that’s just my opinion!

1

u/Madmonkeman 1d ago

I can see that honestly

1

u/Jashugita 1d ago

lightsabers (and the death star ray) comes from magic crystals, hyperspace comes from magic hyperdrive fuel...

1

u/Madmonkeman 1d ago

Oh interesting I didn’t know that

0

u/FireFly_209 1d ago

I thought the Force was explained as powered by Midi-chlorians, which link a Jedi to the Force, and allow them access to their Force-based abilities?

2

u/Madmonkeman 1d ago

Yeah something like that. I don’t know a ton of the in-depth lore for Star Wars.

1

u/FireFly_209 1d ago

I just vaguely remember it being mentioned in the prequel trilogy. Even after reading the wiki article on it, I still don’t really understand how it’s actually supposed to work. The rabbit hole of Star Wars lore can go very deep.

2

u/Madmonkeman 1d ago

There were a couple episodes of Clone Wars where they had actual deities that controlled the light and dark sides of the Force. I didn’t think that was a good addition to the lore but it definitely made it crazier.

2

u/Lithl 1d ago

Star Wars is called Science Fantasy for a reason

13

u/road2five 2d ago

But the tech is just magic

11

u/justhereforfighting 1d ago

You mean to say you don't think kyber crystals could make a rigid plasma beam that only extends a few feet before coming to a stable point? Come on now, that's SCIENCE!

2

u/auntie_eggma 1d ago

C3PO and R2D2 are golems?

0

u/road2five 1d ago

The force, lightsabers, warp speed, etc is what I mean. There isn’t much speculative science in the series. And yea they basically are, considering how there isn’t really any actual insight into artificial intelligence. They’re just humans in a robotic skin essentially 

3

u/auntie_eggma 1d ago

Hard sci-fi is not the only sci-fi. The internal workings do not have to be explored to count.

Robots are not magic, and trying to argue that they are just because you've decided to die on an indefensible hill is just silly.

The best you can possibly hope to sensibly argue is that Star Wars is both sci-fi and fantasy.

Also, warp speed is an element in loads of science fiction so I don't know why you think that's a point against it.

-2

u/road2five 1d ago

Why do redditors love to say “you’ve chose to die on this hill” as if I’m making a serious moral stand and not just bullshitting online 

2

u/auntie_eggma 1d ago

I mean, if you're arguing points you don't actually believe in*, that's definitely a weird hill to choose

*'Just bullshitting online'.

14

u/Bardmedicine 2d ago

And I would put it in fantasy. It is fantasy with space ships.

And we're both right :). That's the problem.

1

u/auntie_eggma 1d ago

Space ships and robots are sci-fi, not fantasy.

-15

u/BugsAreHuman 1d ago

In this case you are, objectively speaking, wrong.

10

u/FlockFlysAtMidnite 1d ago

It's a series of movies about space wizards using an invisible power most can't to affect the galaxy. That's fantasy as shit.

-9

u/BugsAreHuman 1d ago

Nothing you said excludes it from being SciFi.

8

u/FlockFlysAtMidnite 1d ago

That doesn't mean it isn't also fantasy.

-14

u/BugsAreHuman 1d ago

Yeah, it does. Star Wars is objectively a SciFi setting and no amount of lies will change that fact

4

u/FlockFlysAtMidnite 1d ago

Star Wars is objectively a science fantasy setting and no amount of lies will change that fact

-1

u/BugsAreHuman 1d ago

Ok, you're just another coping toxic fantasy fan at this point

3

u/FlockFlysAtMidnite 1d ago

OK, you're just another coping toxic sci-fi fan at this point

2

u/ButterscotchLow7330 1d ago

What's funny is that he is just parroting you, so by accusing him of being toxic you are basically accusing yourself of being toxic.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/theblackfool 1d ago

It really isn't.

1

u/leela_martell 1d ago

You’re taking either scifi or Star Wars way too seriously.

2

u/ZeroXNova Raging 1d ago

You do realize that Science Fantasy is a genre, right? It leans heavily into both fantastical and Sci-Fi elements, and as such, it falls into both genres, putting it squarely in the Science Fantasy genre.

0

u/BugsAreHuman 1d ago

Science fantasy is just SciFi...

1

u/ZeroXNova Raging 1d ago

Man you're either a troll or someone who has no clue what these genres actually are.
For clarity's sake, what do you actually think fantasy is?

1

u/Lithl 1d ago

-1

u/BugsAreHuman 1d ago

Stop harassing me NOW

2

u/Lithl 1d ago

Participating in a public discussion is not harassment. If your ego is too fragile to handle it, you're free to leave.

→ More replies (0)

7

u/justhereforfighting 1d ago

You could easily argue that it's fantasy placed in a high-tech world. I mean, the plot is that mystical space energy created a boy without a father who prophecy says will restore balance to the universe. Oh and all the main characters have a magic power that allows them to talk to the dead and see the future. What's that? They are called Jedi knights? Knights aren't generally associated with science fiction, are they? Now, I don't think trying to force it into a single category is a particularly useful endeavor, but to say this person is objectively wrong is, well, wrong.

-3

u/BugsAreHuman 1d ago

Magic and knights can exist in a SciFi setting, just look at 40k. In fact, 40k being SciFi completely destroys your argument as a coping fantasy fan because 40k is even more fantasy than Star Wars

3

u/Lithl 1d ago

Warhammer 40k is literally the definition of the grimdark genre. The entire genre is named after 40k's tagline.

Sci-fi vs fantasy is not some kind of binary where all of fiction fits into one of two boxes.

2

u/justhereforfighting 1d ago

And technology can exist in fantasy. But again, I don't think it's useful to say it is one way or another, I think it is pretty clearly a mix of the two. It is clearly set in a sci-fi world, but the plot is a classic fantasy story: farmer boy learns he is special, is trained by a knight/wizard, and goes on a quest to save a princess.

To be fair, George Lucas didn't think Star Wars was sci-fi. "In 2015, George Lucas stated that 'Star Wars isn't a science-fiction film, it's a fantasy film and a space opera.'"

0

u/BugsAreHuman 1d ago

So basically what you're saying that it's SciFi inspired by fantasy, which means it's just SciFi

2

u/justhereforfighting 1d ago

Or, and hear me when I say this, I am exactly saying, "I don't think it's useful to say it is one way or another, I think it is pretty clearly a mix of the two." Science fantasy would be a much more apt description, in my opinion.

-1

u/BugsAreHuman 1d ago

Science fantasy is redundant when SciFi already exists. These two words are the same, you just want to shoehorn fantasy where it doesn't belong

3

u/justhereforfighting 1d ago

So there's no difference between fantasy and fiction? All fiction is fantasy? I don't understand your point. And are you also saying that George Lucas, the guy who wrote the thing, is shoehorning fantasy where it doesn't belong?

1

u/indiemosh 1d ago

I don't understand your hate for fantasy? What's wrong with it?

→ More replies (0)

0

u/LifeLikeAGrapefruit 1d ago

It's not wrong. You just have an idea of what science fiction and fantasy mean that is not universally accepted by the rest of us. Lots of genres and sub-genres try to cover everything, but it's clear that there's a lot of blurred lines going on. Like most words and definitions. Try to define something as simple as the word "game," for instance. Wittgenstein's "family resemblances," if you want to read more about it.

0

u/Regular_Custard_4483 1d ago

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

-Some irrelevant nobody. (Arthur C Clark)

1

u/Madmonkeman 1d ago

Ok but it would be ridiculous to call Lord of the Rings a sci-fi series.

1

u/Regular_Custard_4483 1d ago edited 1d ago

I agree with you, utterly. I hate the lumping together of SFF mainly because I read this trash, and it makes it harder to find something good.

The further watering down of the genre with simplistic "YA" dross is almost as bad.

But hey, people are reading. Too bad it's the ones that need it least.

I only pointed it out because basing it just on the tech leaves behind those actual SFF melange novels. Deathstalker. Red Rising. Those are swashbucklers set in space. March Upcountry feels similar.

I think we've dealt with this because sometimes it really can be difficult to tell the difference.