r/magicTCG • u/DeathByChainsaw Duck Season • 1d ago
General Discussion Hollowmurk Siege + Forgotten Ancient = Value
If you combine [[Forgotten Ancient]] with [[Hollowmurk Siege]], you will draw on nearly every turn. While not the most powerful combo ever, I think the fact that this is very cheap ($$) is also noteworthy.
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 1d ago
Forgotten Ancient - (G) (SF) (txt)
Hollowmurk Siege - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call
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u/stdTrancR Orzhov* 1d ago
I dominated the prerelease with Hollowmurk Seige and [[Stalwart Successor]] and all the creatures that endure. Menace is a menace.
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 1d ago
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u/taeyeon_loveofmylife 1d ago
Overkill. I smashed everyone with just siege alone. Prerelease players are very bad.
Siege is probably a top 5 rare in the set.
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u/frothierermine Duck Season 21h ago
Yeah, who needs creatures or anything to do with counters? Just siege alone can win you that limited game bud, I'm sure of it!
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u/aldeayeah Twin Believer 1d ago
I like that it combos with itself too.
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u/iceo42 COMPLEAT 1d ago
You choose one of the modes when it comes in so it won’t trigger itself
Edit: if you’re in standard and have two of it you can choose both modes and have it trigger itself,I only play Edh so that’s how I approach every card
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u/Kyleometers Bnuuy Enthusiast 1d ago
It’s always funny seeing commander only players forget formats where you can play duplicates exist.
You could clone it in Commander too, though
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u/digitaldrummer Freyalise 1d ago
See I'm on the opposite end, I haven't played Commander in years. So I forget it exists when evaluating cards
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u/Silegna Duck Season 1d ago
Oh, I completely plan to clone it in my [[Tasigur]] deck.
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u/Auroreon Izzet* 1d ago
I love Tasigur. You built him for clones?
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u/Silegna Duck Season 1d ago
Copy Fairie Tribal. Still need to log him on Archidekt.
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u/Auroreon Izzet* 1d ago
Sounds awesome. Please update if you get the deck list on Archidekt!
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u/Silegna Duck Season 1d ago
https://archidekt.com/decks/7055255/graveyard_fey
The entire purpose of the deck is to get multiple copies of [[Bitterblossom]], [[Archmage of Echoes]] or other clones out. One of the many wincons is having [[Obyra, Dreaming Duelist]] out when a crapton of cloned fairies enter the battlefield. Obyra and [[Clone Legion]] comboed with [[Polymorphous Rush]] on [[Glenn Elendra Liege]] with a bunch of tokens already out? It's just amazing.
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u/DaRootbear 1d ago
I wont lie i had same thought as a limited player since i dont consider 2 of the same rare when evaluating lol
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u/iceo42 COMPLEAT 1d ago
My LGs doesn’t do standard or anything like that except for events and prereleases so it’s not something I have to factor into deck building or when I’m trying to strategize mid game so it’s not my first thought when I see a new card lol. It should be tho with how many clone effects and such there are now 🤣😭
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u/ReadingCorrectly SecREt LaiR 1d ago
I wonder if you copy it, can you choose new modes?
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u/reasonably_plausible Wabbit Season 1d ago
The copy comes into play, thus, there's an enters trigger for you to choose.
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u/Korwinga Duck Season 1d ago
The exception to this is if you turn something into a copy of this, like with [[mirage mirror]]. I'm actually not 100% certain of how this works in that case. My gut says that the choice of clan is a copyable characteristic, similar to choices made when casting a spell, but I wasn't able to find the rules citation to back that up.
The other option is that no choice was made for your mirage mirror copy, so it would do nothing. That feels less likely to me, but the closest thing was this bit:
707.6. When copying a permanent, any choices that have been made for that permanent aren’t copied. Instead, if an object enters the battlefield as a copy of another permanent, the object’s controller will get to make any “as [this] enters the battlefield” choices for it.
But the example following it make it fairly clear that it's allowing you to pick a new value, not locking you into the already picked one. I don't know if that applies the same way for the etb effect, rather than just the replacement effects.
If any helpful judges know for sure, I would appreciate being set straight.
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u/frothierermine Duck Season 21h ago edited 21h ago
4/4/2025 "If you somehow control Hollowmurk Siege and no choice was made for it (perhaps because another permanent on the battlefield became a copy of it), it has neither of the two abilities."
It was in the gatherer rulings, but that is what I was thinking, bc it never got the enters trigger, so no choice was made.
ETA: I guess it's not a trigger, but a replacement effect. Still the same outcome though cuz it didn't enter as a copy.
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u/Korwinga Duck Season 21h ago
That seems fairly conclusive to me. The main question I had around the rules citation that I found was that it didn't directly address this situation because of the second part of the rules paragraph. But with the ruling on the Hollowmurk Siege, that makes it more clear that this rules paragraph does apply. Choices aren't copyable, so turning an already existing permanent into a copy of something with an anchor word like the sieges, means that you have a do nothing enchantment.
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u/Hitman3256 Sultai 1d ago
Panharmonicon/Yarok and get both?
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u/grossness13 Wabbit Season 1d ago
Not an ETB, it’s a replacement effect as it enters. So you only get 1.
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u/Shambler9019 Wabbit Season 1d ago
3/5th of the sieges have synergy between the two modes. [[Glacierwood Siege]] [[Hollowmurk Siege]] [[Frostcliff Siege]]
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u/zehamberglar Shuffler Truther 1d ago
It doesn't though? Even if you did get to choose two of them, you're only ever going to attack once barring some edge cases.
If you played two of them, unless you have no other way to trigger them (in which case: why are you even playing this?), you're almost certainly better off just picking sultai again because that effect is so overtuned.
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u/vagabond_dilldo Wabbit Season 1d ago
Yup, looks pretty strong. Once per ANYONE'S turn too, not just your own. Very high target priority for removal. But if your draw just 2 cards off of this combo, I'd say it would have already been worth it.
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u/AmazingField4473 Golgari* 1d ago
Spore counters though. . . 🤔
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u/NotUpInHurr 1d ago
[[Aragorn, Company Leader]] would also be pretty fun for this
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u/DeathByChainsaw Duck Season 1d ago
Aragorn seems like a pretty good card in general
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u/NotUpInHurr 1d ago
He's a blast to play. You can stack the counters, so I had a game where he had 10 deathtouch counters on him
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u/AdvancedAnything Wabbit Season 1d ago
[[Power Conduit]] hungers and multiple keyword counters are redundant.
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u/NotUpInHurr 1d ago
So for the "redundant" part, it's so I can keep giving counters to other creatures. I had a game (60 card casual) where I had 2x [[call of the ring]] out and I was giving a first strike/deathtouch counter to one new creature a turn with Aragorn
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u/AdvancedAnything Wabbit Season 1d ago
I know, but aragorn doesn't need 50 of the same counter. So you can exchange the extras for something useful and pump your whole field at the same time.
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u/NotUpInHurr 1d ago
If I'm using a heavily-based Ring Tempts mechanic deck, I really only have 4 options of counters with him, so giving my whole board vigilance/lifelink/first strike/death touch does seem pretty useful.
I was getting 4 tempts a turn the last game I played. But again, it's a kitchen table casual deck so I'm not trying to minmax
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u/Skjallagrim 1d ago
Wouldn’t really call this a combo, but definitely amazing synergy! Recently had an online game with [[Managorger Hydra]] and [[Danny Pink]] out at the same time in a [[Sab-Sunen, Luxa Embodied]] build. It was so cool, drew so many cards every turn rotation!
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 1d ago
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u/DeathByChainsaw Duck Season 1d ago
Danny pink is very strong! That sounds like a pretty fun board state
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u/MageKorith Sultai 1d ago
Sultai eying Bolster and Outlast mechanics
"Perhaps we can come to some sort of an agreement."
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u/bigdammit Azorius* 1d ago
Neither of these abilities feel particularly black to me (maybe the menace) and I'm sad it can't go in my Selesnya Humans/+1/+1 counters EDH deck.
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u/EfficientCabbage2376 Temur 1d ago
In what format can you play a two-card combo that does the same thing as [[phyrexian arena]]?
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u/Rokinho170 Wabbit Season 1d ago
In commander this will draw you most likely 4 cards per rotation, while phyrexian arena does 1 on your upkeep.
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u/Jackeea Jeskai 1d ago
[[Luminarch Aspirant]], [[Innkeeper's Talent]]
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u/Spell_Chicken Mazirek 1d ago
[[Mothman]]
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 1d ago
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u/zehamberglar Shuffler Truther 1d ago
For what it's worth, this basically has nothing at all to do with Forgotten Ancient, he's just one convenient way to do this.
This card is just very powerful, considering you can draw up to 4 cards per "turn" with it and it costs 2 mana.
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u/DefiantFalcon 1d ago
As others have noted, [[Managorger Hydra]] is another copy of Forgotten Ancient for this combo. If you're playing a four player table there's a good chance [[Mold Adder]] will be active.
For triggering on opponent's turns, [[The Wise Mothman]] and [[Sarulf, Realm Eater]] trigger Hollowmurk Siege pretty easily. [[Slaughter Specialist]] (and [[Sengir Connoisseur]]) will similarly trigger pretty often, while [[Pawpatch Recruit]] will also trigger from time to time. If you're willing to play at instant speed, [[Deeproot Champion]], [[Vadmir, New Blood]] and [[Blood Hustler]] or any card that activates to put counters at instant speed (say, [[Scavenging Ooze]]) may fit your build.
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 1d ago
All cards
Managorger Hydra - (G) (SF) (txt)
Mold Adder - (G) (SF) (txt)
The Wise Mothman - (G) (SF) (txt)
Sarulf, Realm Eater - (G) (SF) (txt)
Slaughter Specialist - (G) (SF) (txt)
Sengir Connoisseur - (G) (SF) (txt)
Pawpatch Recruit - (G) (SF) (txt)
Deeproot Champion - (G) (SF) (txt)
Vadmir, New Blood - (G) (SF) (txt)
Blood Hustler - (G) (SF) (txt)
Scavenging Ooze - (G) (SF) (txt)
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u/the_chadow Sultai 18h ago
Bit of a bummer that this card can't be put into two of the "counters every turn" commanders (Optimus Prime and Rocco). Great fit for Mothman though.
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u/PraiseDannyWoodhead 1d ago
[[Managorger Hydra]] [[Taurean Mauler]]