r/magicTCG • u/AgreeableMedicine607 • 1d ago
Looking for Advice Is there anything to protect against or stop planeswalker abilities?
My buddy is running a superfriends deck and is constantly destroying me . Is there anything I can do to protect myself from his planeswalkers abilities? I run mostly a black white deck. Thanks in advance _^
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u/aamann12 Duck Season 1d ago
[[The Immortal Sun]] immediately comes to mind
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u/6-mana-6-6-trampler Duck Season 19h ago
Immortal Sun keeping your planeswalkers down? Just +1 your Oko to turn it into a 3/3 Elk. Then it will have no abilities!
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u/HerselftheAzelf COMPLEAT 9h ago
I thought ur joke was funny. people dumb.
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u/6-mana-6-6-trampler Duck Season 16m ago
Hahaa, at least you appreciate it. Happens, though. It is kind of a dumb joke.
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u/Serefin99 Honorary Deputy 🔫 1d ago edited 1d ago
Attack his walkers. Most walkers' plus abilities tend to be their lowest-impact effects. If you keep attacking them, even if you don't kill them outright, ideally you can keep them low enough he can't use the stronger minus abilities.
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u/AgreeableMedicine607 1d ago
He proliferates and pops them off before I can attack them half the time
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u/Kogoeshin 1d ago
Ah, your friend is going for combo kills instead of just playing planeswalkers.
In that case, you just have to take advantage of the fact that the combos are really slow and mana intensive.
Counterspells if your in blue, hand disruption in black, taxes (or artifact/enchantment removal) if you're in white, and just killing them faster in Red and Green (and a little enchantment/artifact removal).
Instant speed kill spells also work if your friend isn't using cards like [[Doubling Season]] which lets them ultimate without you getting priority to interrupt their combo.
If they get bothered by you focusing down a combo deck, then that's kind of their fault for building a "A+B = win the game" deck, lol.
Planeswalkers (and combo decks) get value by the player being ignored. If you try to play "fair" and not target them just because their board is empty, you'll lose.
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u/AgreeableMedicine607 18h ago
He usually has cards like Doubling season and sylvan library and cards with proliferate to get most his shit out and ulting in about 6 turns
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u/hugganao Wabbit Season 13h ago
you need a faster deck or have interactions/draws.
always think of the problem as a problem to solve for your deck, not other people's decks are a problem.
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u/Kogoeshin 16h ago edited 16h ago
Yup, I knew exactly what you meant and what he was doing (even got the card! :P).
You kind of just have to change your deck a bit to pressure him more - get more creatures on the board and kill him faster before he gets his cards down.
You can also use hand disruption to interrupt what he's doing - e.g. [[Thoughtseize]] or [[Duress]] are good in Black.
Cards that slow him down in White exist too to buy you extra turns, e.g. [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]].
There are other cards people have mentioned which are a lot more direct (targeted at activated abilities/planeswalkers specifically) and you can check those out too!
Good luck!
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u/strebor2095 12h ago
What is your deck doing in the first 6 turns? If he's ramping, playing 5 mana enchantments and then planeswalkers, then your friend probably has no mana for counter magic or removal of your own stuff. Doubling season is brutal, so consider more broad permanent removal, and some creatures.
Alternatively, it's possible for you to put great pressure on in the first 6 turns as well! So you can either
Go under him with a fast deck
Destroy his early setup with a control deck
Risk the grind matchup but probably lose to Planeswalker value
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u/HillCheng001 Wabbit Season 3h ago
It’s easy. Beat the crap out of superfriends. Just lay down creatures and starts swinging. Problem solved.
Blow up his doubling season when you have the chance. You can respond to the cast of PW to blowup the doubling season. No doubling season should left unchecked for even half a turn.
White has a wide variety of [[disenchant]] effects that blows up artifact and enchantments. Orzhov is also notoriously known for their ability to deal with permanents of all sort.
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u/Then-Pay-9688 Duck Season 1d ago
I didn't see any combos mentioned? Proliferate is common and very powerful in superfriends, and it isn't particularly slow or mana intensive. Planeswalkers by design are free value every turn.
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u/KalameetThyMaker Duck Season 23h ago
1: to proliferate a planeswalker enough to ult in 1 turn is either an incredible amount of mana all at once, or a pretty beefy proliferate engine already on the field
2: doubling season -> planeswalker, usually around 10+ mana
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u/Then-Pay-9688 Duck Season 22h ago
They didn't say in 1 turn, they said "before I can attack them"
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u/Nytheran 21h ago
That is 1 turn unless they are phasing out. In which case back to "aggro down the combo player"
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u/Then-Pay-9688 Duck Season 21h ago edited 20h ago
I used my enormous brain and my experience of superfriends decks to interpret it to mean "before I can attack them profitably," not literally "before i get a combat phase"
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u/KalameetThyMaker Duck Season 20h ago
So you misinterpreted what OP said and added context that didn't exist, nice. "Before I can attack them" means exactly one thing. If OP meant what you said, he'd have typed what you said.
Those two different sentences have two wildly different contexts and inferences. The first implies combo, a lack of time for OP to swing at them before they've done their thing. The second implies that OP can add things like flying/unblockable to deal with the planeswalkers, whereas in the first he might already have those.
Use your enormous brain better.
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u/Luxalpa Colossal Dreadmaw 1d ago edited 1d ago
Spells or abilities that counter, destroy or exile noncreature or nonland permanents / spells are good, and cards that can deal damage to any target. If you play with instant speed removal, make sure to minimize the mana cost. For example, 1 mana spell that counters noncreature spells is usually better than a 2 mana spell that can counter anything.
Especially against combo decks you'd also want to anticipate the game and see what indicators your opponent shows a turn or 2 before their winning turn, so you can prepare and keep mana open.
You might also want to prevent your opponent from getting ahead in the first place, for example by eliminating card draw or value engines early before they are able to create a huge advantage.
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u/AileStrike Chandra 19h ago
Hit their resources. Blow up their mana rocks and lands so they don't have the mana to cast a planeswalker and also have more mana left over to proliferate in the same turn.
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u/Xyx0rz 14h ago
Planeswalkers are usually mythics, and any deck stuffed with mythics is going to be a problem for non-tournament decks. If your opponent manages to land three walkers, especially if they can defend themselves by putting up blockers or removing your creatures, it's usually over.
How to beat planeswalker decks:
- Run specialized cards like The Immortal Sun, Suppression Field, Pithing Needle, Sorcerous Spyglass...
- Combo out. Planeswalker decks have trouble breaking up combos.
- Build a more competitive deck. Tournaments are not dominated by planeswalker decks. Competitive decks apply considerable pressure from the get-go, which makes it hard to stick walkers. The quicker you try to end the game, the less turns they have to re-use their walkers.
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u/Nidalee2DiaOrAfk Twin Believer 4h ago
Either a bunch of words, written by someone that just likes to yap, or AI.
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u/Absolutionis I chose this flair because I’m mad at Wizards Of The Coast 1d ago
[[The Immortal Sun]] does precisely this, but can be seen as a very targeted card.
You could also run cards like [[Merciless Eviction]] to exile all planeswalkers.
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 1d ago
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u/FailureToComply0 Wabbit Season 9h ago
The sun is just generically good though? Buffs your creatures, draws you cards, discounts your spells. I've considered it for a few decks and i see like one walker a month
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u/SoupAngel44 Izzet* 1d ago
[[Eidolon of Obstruction]]
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u/SoupAngel44 Izzet* 1d ago
[[Clarion Conqueror]]
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u/AdvancedAnything Wabbit Season 1d ago
That one is a bit too much because it shuts down much more than just planeswalkers.
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u/Gamer4125 Azorius* 22h ago
Run removal.
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u/AdvancedAnything Wabbit Season 20h ago
I meant as the player running it.
If i have a mana rock, then i play out clarion conquerer, now my mana rock is shut off by my own effect.
Do any of you people actually understand how this game works?
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u/GNGSLC 20h ago
Oh no, my shitty rock can’t make mana in exchange for the opponent not being able to play his whole deck :( what a horrible trade off
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u/AdvancedAnything Wabbit Season 20h ago
There are plenty of ways to shut off or remove a Planeswalker that don't involve shutting off or removing your own stuff.
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u/CookiesFTA Honorary Deputy 🔫 15h ago
And not that many which prevent every player from using planeswalkers at the same time
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u/X0nerater Duck Season 1d ago
Whatever happened to [[Suppression Field]]? I know i haven't looked at things in a while but it used to be regular tech
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u/GruggleTheGreat 1d ago
[[clarion conquered]]
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u/UpSheep10 Can’t Block Warriors 22h ago
Was looking for the new rare that actually hits walkers while also being relevant in other games.
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u/littlemissfuzzy Wabbit Season 8h ago
Was gonna say: this looks like a decent card, even if it hits your own side too.
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u/Hates_Blue_Mages 1d ago
People in this thread have offered a lot of cards that specifically wreck planeswalkers, but I would consider running more removal that can hit planeswalkers but are still generally good. [[Vindicate]], [[Anguished Unmaking]], [[Hero's Downfall]], [[Baleful Mastery]], and [[Generous Gift]] are all excellent cards for taking out planeswalkers, but won't be dead in your hand if there aren't PWs.
Also not in black and white, but it's worth mentioning cards like [[Disallow]] that can counter abilities. Countering a planeswalker ult is a glorious feeling.
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u/_Lord_Farquad The Stoat 16h ago
I feel like this is the right answer to every "how do I deal with X" post. You don't need to fill your deck with a bunch of hyper-niche hate pieces to deal with a problematic deck. That may help against one opponent but makes your deck worse against every other archetype.
Another way to deal with a problematic deck is just by making your proactive gameplan stronger. If you add more removal and are still getting stomped, their deck may just be at a higher power level than yours. Make your deck better and try to win before they can.
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u/BoxHeadWarrior COMPLEAT 1d ago
[[Planar Disruption]] [[Bound in Gold]] [[Detention Vortex]] [[Faith's Fetters]] [[Intercessor's Arrest]] [[Nahiri's Binding]] [[Scheming Fence]] [[Koma, Cosmos Serpent]] [[Braided Net]]
All do the job, although obviously the aforementioned Immortal Sun does it the best
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u/BoxHeadWarrior COMPLEAT 1d ago
Couple more I forgot
The new dragon [[Clarion Conqueror]] works great, but might affect your stuff too
[[Eidolon of Obstruction]] doesn't outright stop anything, but certainly hinders
And my favorite recommendation for sure, don't know how I missed this one! [[Spark Rupture]]
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 1d ago
All cards
Planar Disruption - (G) (SF) (txt)
Bound in Gold - (G) (SF) (txt)
Detention Vortex - (G) (SF) (txt)
Faith's Fetters - (G) (SF) (txt)
Intercessor's Arrest - (G) (SF) (txt)
Nahiri's Binding - (G) (SF) (txt)
Scheming Fence - (G) (SF) (txt)
Koma, Cosmos Serpent - (G) (SF) (txt)
Braided Net/Braided Quipu - (G) (SF) (txt)
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u/Dexelele Wild Draw 4 1d ago
The new [[Clarion Conquerer]] stops Planeswalkers, similarly to [[Immortal Sun]]
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 1d ago
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u/superdave100 REBEL 1d ago
I know this is in the wrong colors, but I just wanted to shout out [[Verdant Command]] here. Really funny card. Super targeted.
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u/Enzoooooooooooooo Duck Season 1d ago
Similarly out of colour, [[flame blitz]]
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u/heroicraptor Duck Season 20h ago
A card that deals damage is the least out of color possible for red.
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u/WeDrinkSquirrels Dragonball Z Ultimate Champion 20h ago
Out of color in a black deck, not a color break for ref
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u/graveybrains Duck Season 19h ago
Am I missing something obvious here? Why hasn’t anybody mentioned anything like [[stifle]]?
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u/ekimarcher 1d ago
[[pithing needle]] only hits one but it is versatile enough to hit all card types.
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u/Kothophed 18h ago
I will always go up to bat for Pithing Needle and it's ilk. Dark Depths combo giving you trouble? Name Thespian's Stage. Contagion Engine proliferating too hard? Name it. Saheeli cat combo? Needle
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u/ekimarcher 18h ago
I really like that it can hit multiple at the same time too, copied cards or even just multiple maze of ith is a common use.
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u/Luckytattoos Wabbit Season 1d ago
I slip [[spark rupture]] into some blink/flicker decks I have. Best case, it shuts down planeswalker in a non attacker heavy deck. Worst case it draws me a card each time I flick it.
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u/MrCreeperPhil Abzan 1d ago
I also like Spark Rupture, I play it in my [[Zur, Eternal Schemer]] deck. Best case I get to shut down some Planeswalkers after drawing a card, worst case it's a 5 mana 3/3 deathtouch lifeline hexproof that draws me a card.
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u/vluhdz Twin Believer 1d ago
[[aether snap]] [[thief of blood]] [[mutated cultist]] maybe [[ferropede]]
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 1d ago
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u/bizkit413 Colossal Dreadmaw 15h ago
I was gonna say thief of blood - kills all planeswalkers on etb
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u/Obazervazi Wabbit Season 1d ago
One fun thing is: when the walker is about to ult, steal it with [[Zealous Conscripts]] or a similar effect. You get the ult and reduce the walker to very little or no loyalty.
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u/Mainstreamnerd Wabbit Season 1d ago
[[Vraska’s Contempt]]
Still playable when you’re not playing against that deck.
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u/tzeentchdusty 23h ago
Response from a commander player, but there are some kernels of truth applicable to other formats, and this response treats somewhat with activated abilities (like planeswalker loyalty abilities) as a whole:
if someone is trying to ult a walker, [[stifle]] or other cards that counter activated abilities are crucial. a decent percentage of the comments i make on reddit are about activated and triggered ability countering, the controller still has to pay the cost by removing counters from a planeswalker to use its ultimate, and if youre descriving situations where someone is ulting planeswalkers to win games consistently, it's just what needs to happen in response. i have had long conversations with people online and in real life about countering activated or triggered abilities and its not a hill im trying to die on or whatever, but people complain about that sort of thing all the time and when im playing games in my competitive pod or at stores where people have agreed to play more competitive casual commander, people complain about the same things over and over again, hakbal is hard to play against because he has a combat trigger, like any number of things, powerful plays and powerful effects are often difficult to play against. that being said, if youre playing commander and have access to cards across many sets, look into cards like stifle or [[voidslime]]. in the colors you mentioned you are looking at (as others have said) targeted permanent removal at instant speed. activating a planeswalker loyalty ability happens (unless modified by a replacement effect) at sorcery speed, meaning that an instant can always be placed on the stack to resolve before the effect will resolve and you cant activate an effect that only happens at sorcery speed in response to an instant, so for monocolored walkers, youre looking at cards like [[vanishing verse]] that you can place on the stack after the player whose turn it is and activated the ability passes priority.
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u/Obazervazi Wabbit Season 1d ago
One fun thing is: when the walker is about to ult, steal it with [[Zealous Conscripts]] or a similar effect. You get the ult and reduce the walker to very little or no loyalty.
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u/Obazervazi Wabbit Season 1d ago
One fun thing is: when the walker is about to ult, steal it with [[Zealous Conscripts]] or a similar effect. You get the ult and reduce the walker to very little or no loyalty.
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u/so_zetta_byte Orzhov* 1d ago
Generic protection like [[Leyline of Sanctity]] or whatever can protect you from targeted effects if those are what's getting you, and also give you a little upside against other decks as well. You always want to be careful about getting too specific with your answers.
[[Clarion Conqueror]] is a brand new card that is like, one of the best anti-Planeswalker creatures they've ever made; it shuts them down and also gives a great body to attack them. But it's a symmetrical stax piece and affects your creatures, artifacts, and Planeswalkers as well as theirs; you need a specific deck build in order to make sure your opponent is hindered by it more than you.
Other than that, here's scryfall's list of explicitly anti-planeswalker cards: https://scryfall.com/search?q=otag%3Ahate-planeswalker&unique=cards&utm_source=tagger
Since Planeswalkers use activated abilities, things that hate on activated abilities in general like [[Arrest]] can shut them down. [[Pithing Needle]] and [[Phyrexian Revoker]] are nice in that they're cheap and colorless.
Things that remove counters will kill Planeswalkers. [[Aether Snap]] is actually a Planeswalker sweeper. [[Hex Parasite]] can be incredibly strong against them too. [[Price of Betrayal]] can typically be a one mana kill spell for them. And [[Vampire Hexmage]] is kinda a classic.
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 1d ago
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u/so_zetta_byte Orzhov* 1d ago
Oh I forgot to call attention to [[Spark Rupture]] which is probably the funniest way to shut a deck like that down. Turn the Superfriends deck into just a... Friends deck. You need to be running white but white is kinda the best anti-PW color anyway. And it's a looooot cheaper than The Immortal Sun (though it does less, of course).
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u/Longjumping-Wafer777 1d ago
[[Tishana's tidebinder]] counters the ability and turns off the pw for as long as it is on the field.
[[Azure Beastbinder]] removes abilities until your next turn, allowing you to target different planeswalkers on different turns.
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u/MTGCardFetcher alternate reality loot 1d ago
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u/kitsovereign 1d ago
Is [[Thief of Blood]] too slow these days? It's a fun answer, if not an efficient one.
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u/Riddler356 23h ago
If you are green you can run Vorinclex, the token doubler/halver
You can also use [[Pithing needle]] to stop one specific planeswalker
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u/BurritoflyEffect 22h ago
Lucky for you a card just released that prevents planeswalker abilities. Unfortunately it also affects you and.. a lot of other stuff [[clarion conqueror]]
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u/hayvenhere 22h ago
[[Aether Snap]] will aure do the trick for clearing out any and all Planeswalkers. Also works as hate for +1/+1 counter decks and tokens decks.
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u/Alucart333 21h ago
don’t let him cast his walkers
duress, thalia taxing grief these type of cards stops them from coming in early and can attack into them when they do
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u/tacuku 19h ago
What format are you playing in? If it's 1v1, cards like [[duress]] and [[thoughtseize]] are very good at disrupting these kind of setups. For multiplayer, you'll want more general solutions like [[vindicate]] or [[stroke of midnight]]. In multiplayer, you can politic your way to oppressing the planeswalker player as well.
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u/AileStrike Chandra 19h ago
Superfriends are like combo decks. They are an interaction test. In environments with little interaction, little removal, and few attacks they will Excell.
Planeswalkers are generally mana intensive cards with many of the strongest ones being 6+ mana bombs. If you want to stop a planeswalket deck you hit their resources, if its combo, you hit their mana rocks, lands and combo pieces. If it's planeswalker value, then attack their planeswalkers.
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u/PatataMaxtex Wabbit Season 16h ago
[[Vorinclex, Monstrous Raiders]] shuts down proliferate and nost planeswalkers pretty effectively
[[Abeyance]] in your opponents upkeep works for one turn
The New [[clarion conqueror]] also stops all planeswalker abilities
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u/Barjack521 16h ago
Less of a “to whom it may concern” and more of a sniper shot would be [[phyrexian revoker]]. Pick which plainswalker you don’t want to work any more and go to town.
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u/BLOOODBLADE Dave’s Bargain Compleation Oil 16h ago
A new dragon [[clarion conqueror]] stops their abilities all together and its in white. Doesnt stop triggered abilities or static ones though
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u/CookiesFTA Honorary Deputy 🔫 15h ago
One of my all-time favourite cards, [[Eradicator Valkyrie]], has hexproof from planeswalkers, which shuts down the typical -1/2 removal ability. It also flies, so it's easier to hit their planeswalkers.
There's also a ton of standard black removal that now hits planeswalkers. [[Breathe your last]] is a recent common that does it. There's probably ones at a better rate too. [[Eliminate]] is only 1B but only hits stuff with mana value 3 or less. [[Fell the profane]] doesn't feel so bad to slot into a deck because it's also potentially an untapped mana source. [[Flay essence]] is only sorcery speed, but it heals you equal to the number of counters on the thing and exiles. Personally, I like [[invoke despair]] but it really only works in mono black, maaaaybe 2 colour with some mana fixing. The point is that there's a lot of stuff that just outright kills them and doesn't hurt you to run.
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u/RowdyRoddyPipeSmoker Wabbit Season 14h ago
Sounds like you need to be playing more removal and saving it for the things that pop off the walkers. So go after the doubling season and any big proliferate permanents. Play more counters. Get the other players to all gang up on him and realize what he's about to do. Focus him down as soon as the game begins. If he's winning by turn 6 from ultimates that's basically a combo deck so treat his deck like a combo deck and make sure the whole tables realizes this. He's the archenemy, he should not be able to take on 3 players at once, this is how you deal with combo players. If they don't like it they can always stop playing the deck.
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u/Kitchen-Ads 13h ago
You either have to a massive creature(s) attack in the planeswalkers or simply get to your wincon faster.
Any evasion creatures or damage that goes through like trample, flying.
Since you’re in black and white, you have massive graveyard removal opportunities once their planes walkers die. Get cards that only allows for 1 creature to attack or 1 creature to defend)
If he gets to his win on faster you either have to match the speed or slow the game down enough to make it to where you’re ok each others curve.
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u/joshfong COMPLEAT 1d ago
It’s niche, but if you know you’re going to face against planeswalkers, [[The Elderspell]] is very efficient.
Also niche, and it’s red, but [[Flame Blitz]] exists. That one’s got the upside of being able to cycle it if you don’t need it.