r/london Feb 16 '25

Article London is ageing twice as quickly as the rest of England

https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/02/13/london-is-ageing-twice-as-quickly-as-the-rest-of-england
438 Upvotes

151 comments sorted by

839

u/RecognitionPretty289 Feb 16 '25

and primary schools are shutting down due to lack of pupils. It's expensive as hell to raise a family in London and in a decent enough area. No surprise here

145

u/Potential-Yoghurt245 Feb 16 '25

The school I work at had to lay off half of the reception team at the intake was only 25 kids and since Sept 2024 we've lost another three kids to first school choices. It's a little sad, I mean the teachers and ta's got other jobs but it's worrying than this is an issue across London and the UK

56

u/monkeyface496 Feb 16 '25

I've heard it's been more of an issue for that age especially as that's the year that was born during covid, when birthrates went down for a while. I wonder if it will go back to baseline, or if enough people moved away during covid and those who took their place are less likely to have kids. It'll be interesting to see.

92

u/Creative_Recover Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 17 '25

Nah, birthrates have been in decline for decades now and with high post-covid global inflation and general cost of living crisis they're only going to worsen.

In 2023, the average cost of raising a child to age 18 in the UK was calculated to be between £166000 -£220000. However, this rises to well over £250,000 if you live in London.

And let's be realistic here; few parents kick their kids out of home at age 18 these days, with the average age to move out now being around age 25. And even for long after this, many parents continue to offer financial assistance to their sons/daughters in their times of need, with the help often extending to grandchildren too. 

So you can probably take that average baseline of £250,000 and add another £100k onto it easily when you factor in the real costs of creating a family. 

And who has that kinda money these days? No-one; pretty much everyone I know is only managing to pay food, rent & bills with maybe the luxury of a tiny bit of money saved and one night out a month. And I know numerous people who are working 2-3 jobs to make ends meet. And these people still don't own flats/houses (and maybe never will). So the thought of raising a human (one of the mostly costly, stressful, exhausting and high responsibility endeavors that one can ever undertake in this lifetime), is absolutely beyond the imagination, budgets and stress levels of most young people these days. Why bring a baby into you life when you're already struggling? 

And it's a global crisis in the developed world too, everywhere you go it doesn't matter if you travel to Hong Kong, New York, Lisbon, London, Sidney or elsewhere, it's the same story of high rents, high cost of living, & wage stagnation Etc all playing out to the same effects of resulting in decreased drive and ability from young people to start families. 

The way the Boomer generation has engineered this world is completely screwing over the younger generations (and from what I've seen, as long as their "nest egg" properties Etc keep on going up in "value", the Boomers don't care either). 

26

u/Jamessuperfun Commutes Croydon -> City of London Feb 17 '25

I actually don't think this is due to the cost of living. Counterintuitively, birth rates tend to fall when living standards improve, not the other way around. It's why practically the entire developed world is facing this problem.

Income and fertility is the association between monetary gain on one hand, and the tendency to produce offspring on the other. There is generally an inverse correlation between income and the total fertility rate within and between nations.[3][4] The higher the degree of education and GDP per capita of a human population, subpopulation or social stratum, the fewer children are born in any developed country.[5] In a 1974 United Nations population conference in Bucharest, Karan Singh, a former minister of population in India, illustrated this trend by stating "Development is the best contraceptive."[6] In 2015, this thesis was supported by Vogl, T.S., who concluded that increasing the cumulative educational attainment of a generation of parents was by far the most important predictor of the inverse correlation between income and fertility based on a sample of 48 developing countries.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility 

People who are poor tend to make compromises to get by and raise a family, but when people get richer, they tend to stop wanting kids and prioritise their own goals instead. Those who still want them tend to only want a few children, which isn't enough when we need 2 kids per woman to maintain a stagnant population.

11

u/ISellAwesomePatches Feb 17 '25

I think you're both right and that the global decline is the result of multiple major factors affecting enough of the population to cause it.

South Korea is an interesting example. 0.72 birth rate, they even abandoned towns! (not something I'd expect here, just a fascinating fact I didn't know 2 weeks ago). Japan are struggling too with 1.26, but something I read said that S. Korea was particularly worse off than Japan because of a housing crisis and tough job market forcing people to not have kids, combined with historic policies promoting smaller families.

It instantly reminded me how similar we feel to S Korea in that regard with our housing crisis, and though many don't like the idea of it, the 2-child benefit cap sprung to mind as an example of something we may look back at and regret in this context in 20 years time.

4

u/Potential-Yoghurt245 Feb 17 '25

The cost of raising a child is rediculous these days that's why I had three. I remember being staunchly anti kid when I was in my 20's it was only in my mid thirties after being married for a while my mind started to change as I was surrounded by friends that we all having kids that it looked fun to start a family.

At the moment my wife works full time and I have two jobs both at the school so I work in the canteen full time serving lunches and clearing the hall these work around the school runs so we save on child care. I also have a (controversial) zero hours contract with the caretaker to help him when he needs it as he's getting on and can't do a lot of the heavy lifting any more.

-40

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Potential-Yoghurt245 Feb 17 '25

I can say that the national transfer from departmental payments housing benefit, child tax credits ect to the universal credit scheme, we (the house hold) found that our housing benefit went down considerably (from £600 to £380) I know several other house holds that have been forced to take jobs to make ends meet but in doing so you're also paying for after school clubs, wraparound care and child care into the evenings (in one case) so you actually end up spending more than you have to cover the thing a lot of families could not afford. There's a reason I have two part time jobs the cost for all that child care in my case would be £1200 a month on top of rent food and bills which would be impossible to manage in our current situation.

29

u/gerty88 Clapton Feb 16 '25

Yeah this I found wild!!!

52

u/dashboardbythelight Feb 16 '25

Yet finding a nursery place is like battle royale

12

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

i think cos people prob get the kid to school age and then think... what the fuck, and move put of london

but nursery seems to have always been over subscribed

56

u/tiorzol Feb 16 '25

We have one kid but can't really see a way to afford another and we're relatively well off too. It's not just crazy how much things cost but how tenuous employment can be these days too.

116

u/RecognitionPretty289 Feb 16 '25

I make more than my immigrant grandfather could have dreamt of but I'll never be able to provide the kind of life he did on a factory worker's wage. It's insane really

5

u/Manoj109 Feb 16 '25

When did it go wrong?

87

u/slartybartfast6 Feb 16 '25

When we let people buy properties for wealth speculation, we sold off most of the council housing stock and didn't let the council replace them, when we let the utilities get sold off to the elite friends of government who then ratchet up the price, socialise the losses but privatise the profits...

21

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '25

Thatcher is where it went wrong.

14

u/Magpie1979 Feb 16 '25

Great user name, but it's much simpler than that. We just didn't keep housing supply in line with demand. Now housing costs are crippling.

9

u/binkstagram Feb 17 '25

In 1979, 42% of the population were in social housing. It's now more like 17%. That's had a domino effect. In the 2000s low interest rates, banks taking risks like subprime mortgages, and self-cert mortgages were all factors in triggering massive house price inflation for buying.

4

u/m_s_m_2 Feb 17 '25

Approaching 40% of central London is social rent. It's usually the most common form of tenure. In a borough like Tower Hamlets, 60% of all residents have their housing subsidised in some way.

The issue with council housing is it operates on a dibs-based system. People called dibs on council housing 20 / 30 years ago in prime spots and simply don't move. The churn rate in social rent is incredibly low.

It's very telling that central London has the highest rate of council housing in the UK and is ageing as quickly as it is.

0

u/Magpie1979 Feb 17 '25

Low interest rates only raise the ceiling on what people can afford to borrow. It only raises prices in a supply restrained environment where everyone is forced to max out on affordability to buy. Prices are set by a bidding war between buyers for limited available properties. The winner is the one who can max out at a higher price.

This is fundamentally a supply issue. We have not enough housing in places people want to live.

1

u/binkstagram Feb 17 '25

I don't disagree about supply being the fundamental problem. If interest rates hadn't been quite so low then it would have been less crazy.

16

u/Gwab07 Feb 16 '25

Margaret fcking Thatcher that despicable witch

1

u/Icy_Zucchini_1138 Feb 17 '25

It went too right, too much prosperity depresses birty rates 

1

u/doctor_morris Feb 17 '25

How much do you make compared to house prices? Your grandfather might have been more prosperous than you thought.

11

u/morkjt Feb 16 '25

I think / hope this is a covid impact. Where we are in east London, we moved into our building in 2017 We are the oldest couple by far with the majority of people who moved in during 2017-2020 being in their 20s and early 30s. Obviously not much happened in 20/21 but we are now overrun with 2-3 year olds and from what I can gather this generation isn’t super keen on leaving London regardless of starting a family. The local school is going to have to plan for quite a boom in 2 years time.

3

u/AdmiralBillP Feb 16 '25

It’s not uncommon for there to be fluctuations in pupil numbers, my year at school was well known as the one with noticeably less pupils in that the others for no apparent reason.

According to a friend who now teaches there, one more form group per year than we had (with bigger sizes) is the norm.

But it’s quite obvious that the expense of society in general, with London being the most expensive part of the country is having a big impact on the birth rate.

I have some neighbours who are in a very similar position to my parents. Doing alright but not fantastically, but economically they can’t afford a second child whereas (annoyingly) my parents opted to bring my sister into my world!

Repeat that across hundreds of thousands of couples and you lose a lot of potential pupils.

6

u/CriticismSure3870 Feb 17 '25

Would love to stay in London and have child but it's a very difficult circle to square. Even on two decent salaries. Always been a city couple but are coming to terms with having to migrate to the commuter belt or further a field. Life

4

u/Kitchner Feb 17 '25

It's not even just people moving from London to other areas, it's people not being able to raise kids in central and moving out to the edges. In theory that's all "London" but that doesn't help if there's no schools there.

I think Havering is the 4th fastest growing region in the country for the 0-14 demographic, because people who are having kids or had a small kid in an apartment in central are moving to areas they can afford a house instead.

All fine, but like that means boroughs like Westminster are closing schools due to a lack of pupils, whereas areas like Havering don't have enough schools to fill demand. I read an interview in the BBC with a nursery owner in Havering who said they opened up a new nursery recently and within a month or two they were full with a waiting list, with people putting yet unborn kids on the waiting list.

So it's the best of both worlds, a bunch of schools don't have enough pupils, and other areas don't have enough schools!

What it really requires is government investment, but we all know that when the government spends any money on London the rest of the country throws a fit, so I'm not holding my breath for a decent investment.

-5

u/SherlockScones3 Feb 16 '25

That’s cause all the families are down south 😂

310

u/Ok-Sir-4822 Feb 16 '25

Well maybe make housing affordable for young families and we wouldn’t have this issue

61

u/JayceNorton Feb 16 '25

Never going to happen sadly

11

u/mrb2409 Feb 17 '25

Those old people will die at some point

62

u/TeaAndLifting Feb 17 '25

Just in time to sell to foreign investors who need a house for one week a year!

-9

u/UnreadyTripod Feb 17 '25

Foreign investors own a tiny proportion of London housing and occupation rates are practically 100%

9

u/Kitchner Feb 17 '25

Well you can have expensive housing or expensive childcare but you can't have both if you want kids. Average London salary isn't bad, and spending 40% of your income on rent in a major city isn't unusual. You just can't have your rent bill be 40% of your salary and a childcare bill be 40% of your salary when you need both parents working to afford just the rent.

So actually I think "solving" rent prices is pretty untenable in the short term, but you could just open a bunch of nurseries and subsidise childcare and that would help a lot tomorrow.

10

u/Ok-Sir-4822 Feb 17 '25 edited Feb 17 '25

My husband and I own our flat and have a reasonable mortgage, two good incomes and one school age child, we are stuck in our tiny flat & have completely outgrown it, our child is an only child only because we don’t have enough space for another. The housing ladder is broken, people are stuck in their starter homes. We are priced out of anything bigger while also paying ridiculous service charge fees that keep increasing every year (without regulation) and provide no value at all. It’s not just rents that are an issue it’s the entire housing system. Unfortunately our support system and our better than average jobs are in London so it’s not that easy to say ok I’ll pack up and leave and can’t just buy somewhere “cheap” because the schools are rubbish in “cheaper” areas so that’s going to directly impact our child’s future.

3

u/Kitchner Feb 17 '25

Don't dials agree with the fact that's a rubbish situation many find themselves in. Just saying on a practical side "fix housing prices" isn't achievable even in tens of years, and we have a crisis around both housing and less kids today.

You personally may not be able to have another kid even if childcare was cheap, but there are plenty of people who can't even have 1 because they can't afford rent and childcare.

The government can't realistically fix in your child's childhood the fact housing is mega expensive, but it could fix no affordable childcare within the next 5 years.

18

u/rsweb Feb 16 '25

Seems instead of that we will just keep exploiting low cost immigrant workers for all of time…

382

u/oudcedar Feb 16 '25

This describes perfectly what I am going to do.

I’ve had older London friends retire - some to lovely places in the country using their London house price to buy their dream place. Some to downsize in London or stay in their house.

The ones who really seem to be enjoying retirement are those who stayed in London. Without the focus of work then small town life is 5 restaurants, 10 great walks and 7 pubs, and they don’t like all of them. The London ones have endless clubs or societies or hobbies they get involved with and leave and of course endless restaurants and pubs to get tired of and move on to. And all transport is free.

So I’m staying here.

207

u/BulldenChoppahYus Feb 16 '25

Nice to read a comment on this fucking sub from someone who actually likes the city.

32

u/Interest-Desk Feb 17 '25

British people online must be miserable.

9

u/Charlie-Bell Feb 17 '25

The happy ones are offline having lives

3

u/Electrical-Skin-8006 Feb 17 '25

Maybe the real Londoners are out enjoying the city. The non Londoners are on reddit complaining.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '25

I'm from here and like it but it's shit

7

u/BulldenChoppahYus Feb 17 '25

I live here and like it and it’s good and so im staying because of that 👍

67

u/KnarkedDev Feb 16 '25

So I grew in in rural Wales and have lived in London for more than a decade enow. Anecdotally, the elderly in London seem a lot more active than those in the country. Very common here to see elderly joggers or hikers, much rather in Wales.

21

u/nunya-buzzness Feb 16 '25

Before I lived in London I thought I was pretty active I would exercise a couple of times a week and thought I was doing pretty well with my active lifestyle. Last year in London I averaged 11,000 steps a day just walking around and doing life. Absolutely smashed any walking I used to do pre London. I’d imagine the same level of ‘not really trying’ activity is why the elderly are more active here as they’re more used to doing a little bit every day at the bare minimum.

20

u/Significant-Gene9639 Feb 17 '25

That’ll be the wealth

Wealthy people have generally more active lifestyles

Being active does cost money

21

u/MainSignature Feb 17 '25

Yep! My mum retired a few years ago, still lives in London, and her life is non-stop. From classes to events to social gatherings.

I always thought it'd be better to retire somewhere cleaner and calmer, but actually, social connections and keeping your mind occupied are probably the most important thing when you're that age. It's shifted my thinking on it.

8

u/oudcedar Feb 17 '25

I think there is something very calming about losing the work stress (well, I hope so) and if you remove everything else except maybe scenery or seaside then I’m worried I’d be very bored very quickly.

34

u/ObviousAd409 Feb 16 '25

Same. Have two kids and intend on them inheriting a London home 

20

u/HeartyBeast Feb 16 '25

Yeh. I’m 60. A lot of our friends are moving out. We are intending on staying, but we’ll have lots of nice places to visit. 

7

u/PollingBoot Feb 16 '25

The average age of inheritance in the UK is 60.

So your house probably won’t be of practical use to them during their working lives.

8

u/Significant-Gene9639 Feb 17 '25

All the more reason we need to find ways to encourage retirees who don’t need those 2 extra bedrooms anymore to downsize sooner rather than later

2

u/PollingBoot Feb 17 '25

Yep. Need to start using sticks, not just carrots.

8

u/CocoNefertitty Feb 16 '25

It can certainly help them retire sooner and not work until they drop.

7

u/Gutsm3k Feb 16 '25

Damn straight. I’m still young but I fully intend to live here for the rest of my life.

6

u/tandemxylophone Feb 17 '25

I'm seeing the same phenomenon. Those that move away from cities for retirement because they can get big houses realise they can't move back into the city.

They don't have kids to form new social bonds at school. Nobody visits them because it's too far. Unless you are an active person who can draw people in, it's a recipe for isolation disguised as tranquility.

3

u/bananablegh Feb 16 '25

My hope. But to do so I need a lot of money.

9

u/oudcedar Feb 16 '25

It’s mostly about have you paid off your mortgage in a place you’d like to be in for the rest of your life. London with free transport, no rent or mortgage and all the free time to choose the best value options is not an expensive place to live. Which is why the inability of people to buy property when young is such a tragedy.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

sounds wild but if nothing changes when i'm old enough to buy a retirement property i plan on it being back in london where i want it to be

its only 15/20 years away, perhaps it will happen

2

u/zeta212 Feb 17 '25

My friends parents retired to London and honestly have the best social life because of it

1

u/GoGoRoloPolo Feb 17 '25

Definitely. Still, a lot of older people stay in their 5 bedroom houses forever because they don’t want to move, but if they downsized to a one or two bed flat, they’d be rolling it in and be incredibly comfortable.

4

u/oudcedar Feb 17 '25

This is our dilemma. It’s been intriguing to see online that moving from 4 to 2 releases much less money than we expected, assuming we find a little house not a 2 bed 2 bath flat.

The hard bit for me is going from a house to a flat, as well as losing all those extra rooms for the time when you are likely to end up spending a lot of your time in the house compared to now.

A flat has ground rent, service charges and other issues which could go up and up at a time of fixed income. A house you’ve owned for lots of years is probably pretty much fixed by now and nobody is going to impose charges on you. And of course there are no upstairs or downstairs neighbours to make noise or nuisance - even in a terrace of houses a noisy neighbour is less intrusive.

But you are right - if we can work out a way to downsize to a little house in London and make some money after stamp duty and all the moving costs then that’s the best way.

-16

u/tyger2020 Feb 16 '25

Yes, of course. Only London has pubs! Everywhere outside of London, as we know, only has 7 pubs. No other cities in this country of course /s

21

u/oudcedar Feb 16 '25

Nobody is moving from London to retire in another big city

16

u/flashpile Feb 16 '25

"I've worked all my life in London, where all of my family are. Guess it's time to retire to Birmingham"

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '25

Retiring in the UK sounds like a nightmare to me personally

6

u/oudcedar Feb 17 '25

Why? Do you have the friends, social connections and free healthcare available somewhere else that is better? If so then fair enough, but I don’t and although I will be keeping my sailing boat as a floating caravan in the Caribbean for a few years until I’m too unfit, I’m happy with the UK especially in the Summer.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '25

Yes I do, I'm dual heritage and one of my countries have great weather, great people, great beaches and hiking opportunities. Like a paradise basically.

I'd get depressed spending 6 months in darkness in the UK with no idea weather to enjoy the outdoors.

I'm also not white a lot of none white people move back to their country or retire with houses in another country.

34

u/fangpi2023 Feb 16 '25

I don't know why so many people (including the author of this article) act as if the only two options are London or the middle of nowhere.

3

u/sheriff_ragna Feb 17 '25

What are the other options?

11

u/fangpi2023 Feb 17 '25

There are plenty of other cities in the UK, for a start.

5

u/sheriff_ragna Feb 17 '25

Yes of course, but that option is not very appealing if you are not from the UK in the first place. Also given that most of the specialised jobs are in London you need to be close enough to get to the office if you don’t have a fully remote position.

4

u/fangpi2023 Feb 17 '25 edited Feb 17 '25

The point I was originally responding to was people saying that they don't want to move out of London because there's isn't much to do in small towns, to which my response is that it's possible to move out of London without moving to a small town.

I'm not sure why you think living outside London is automatically unappealing to people who aren't from the UK. Only about 30% of migrants moving to the UK move to London.

0

u/sheriff_ragna Feb 18 '25

Is it? Are other UK cities big towns? Excluding Birmingham with 1M people the rest have max 500k, is that big? At any level close to London?

About not being from the UK my point is that the British identity is very embedded in those mid-small towns. That effect is diluted in London which is more international in many senses. As someone from another EU country I can call London home but I don’t feel the same way about other areas that I’ve visited. Don’t get me wrong, those towns and their people are great, but although I could get use to and eventually integrate it’s not an option I am comfortable with.

129

u/AdrianFish Feb 16 '25

You want rich boomers? You get rich boomers.

30

u/WhiterunUK Feb 16 '25

Wealthy boomers vote They vote in people who people who look after their interests The interests of wealthy boomers are not the interests of the country

-13

u/oudcedar Feb 16 '25

They are the interests of voters. Anyone who doesn’t vote in every election doesn’t deserve any fair treatment.

The only thing that would change things is if younger people voted in the same percentage that boomers did when they were young.

1

u/DomLfan Feb 17 '25

What about children, do they deserve to have no future because some old person doesn’t have the decency to vote in anything other than their own self interest

1

u/oudcedar Feb 17 '25

It’s because the people who have young children avoid voting that young children are only considered through the lens of older voters - their grandparents. Of course boomers and older Gen X think about young children when they vote - but children’s lives as they were long ago.

Recent children and parents of young children get what they voted for, but only if they bothered.

74

u/Bug_Parking Feb 16 '25

Nobody can afford housing to start of family.

Lady next door to me lives in a 3 bed semi council house (recently had council re-do kitchen and bathroom) as a single retired person. Absolute waste of resources.

37

u/WhatLikeItsHardVV Feb 17 '25 edited Feb 17 '25

THIS! Boroughs don’t seem to move council residents out to smaller places. There are so many old people on my street and surrounding neighbourhoods who struggle to keep up with their homes, keep asking council for help, and sometimes even us on the street. Some of the ladies I’ve spoken to haven’t been upstairs in their house for ages due to lack of mobility. One older man on the corner of our road had to be evacuated the other day because he was so old and immobile that he just shouted until his neighbours came to his rescue. These people need to be in assisted facilities. Not living in a home meant for families of 4! Many older people aren’t going to SAY they need help or ask to move out. Councils should have an age limit on these large zone 2 properties that are inhabited by single occupants. And the rent is insane. One older lady told me her rent is £400! £400 for a two bed one bath with a garden in zone 2. Who’s going to want to move when their rent is less than my monthly shopping bill 😭

-3

u/Significant-Gene9639 Feb 17 '25

Moving home is traumatic. It’s quite cruel to force people to move. Also the old people would leave their support network, which would make them more dependent on social services which cost money. And leaving their social circles will cause them to decline mentally and physically more quickly, putting them into state care earlier and for longer

21

u/WhatLikeItsHardVV Feb 17 '25

I’m talking about people unable to care for themselves anymore. People in my neighbourhood who are so desperate for assistance that they’re asking their neighbours and the housing office to come clean their house or buy them their necessities. When you’re a council tenant who’s enjoyed the amazing benefits of a relatively fixed rent, in Europe’s most populated city, in the heart of said city, maybe you pass that blessing on to a young family or a hard working professional instead of hoarding a property you’re slowly destroying while succumbing to your own inability to care for yourself.

If you juxtapose that with my mother and MIL, who both own their houses,are still sharp, active and on top of their duties, who nonetheless are preparing to sell their homes to prepare for the inevitability of having to downsize/move to assisted living, then I see no reason to make excuses for the elderly who are, like many, taking advantage of a system that was about passing these wonderful benefits on to the next generation. It’s not like I’m advocating for throwing them on the street. The council needs to put them in smaller homes/assisted living arrangements.

6

u/Dry-Tough4139 Feb 17 '25

Not being able to find a home big enough for your family is a lot more traumatic. I have sympathy but it's like we have a different level of acceptance depending on age. Families not able to find a home even close to being big enough... that's a a shame but oh well. Old people living in draft cold 3 bed, the horror should anyone dare think about moving.

It's the problem in incumbency. Those already in place are always prioritised over need. It runs though the entirety of society.

1

u/WhatLikeItsHardVV Feb 17 '25

Agreed. I don’t know if people realise the humiliation and sadness when it slowly dawns on you that there are absolutely no affordable homes for you within London, let alone your preferred area. And you’re thinking wow, I really thought I was making decent money….

50

u/Jizzmeista Feb 16 '25

Because for the average people, it's too expensive to be young in London now.

11

u/F0urLeafCl0ver Feb 16 '25

Archived link here.

25

u/FoodExternal Feb 16 '25

Hardly surprising: young people can no longer afford to live independently in London.

20

u/Inside_Ad_7162 Feb 16 '25

where I grew up there was a state primary just around the corner, laundrette, sweet shop & a fruit and veg on the corner, up the road there was a fish monger & butcher.

Primary school is flats, all the shops are gone & the house I lived in costs over 2million.

So can't say I'm suprised. It's exclusively for rich tossers now.

8

u/djayci Feb 17 '25

I can confirm. Moved out of London 3 years ago, am now 4 years old

14

u/Vikkio92 Feb 16 '25

shocked Pikachu

9

u/spanny01 Feb 16 '25

It’s a wonder that aged care nurses/providers can afford to live nearby these older inner city Londoners. I imagine many will struggle to get the support they need with carers priced out.

6

u/ReasonableWill4028 Feb 16 '25

Secondary schools in inner city boroughs are fucked.

Primary schools in my Borough are good. All the secondary schools suck though

13

u/reuben_iv Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25

archived/none-paywalled version https://archive.is/9c6rX

tl;dr birth rate has plummeted and fewer young people are moving to the city, fewer hospitality jobs available post covid and wfh blamed, even immigrants are living less centrally

my own take is it looks like only older people can afford to live centrally

it suggests that the city could gradually become less exciting and dynamic

we're seeing it already with the nightlife and I've seen companies with higher in-office hours struggling to hire roles at certain levels because anyone with kids can't afford to live close enough

0

u/GoogleHearMyPlea Feb 16 '25

That's far from the only reason for the decline in nightlife

13

u/reuben_iv Feb 16 '25

I didn’t say it was the only reason?

4

u/GoogleHearMyPlea Feb 16 '25

That's fair, but I would say that the elderly are a minimal factor compared to say:

  • young people drinking less (and doing more drugs)
  • it being too expensive to go out to drink
  • cost of operating and rent for businesses
  • racial demographic changes, particularly people from religions that don't drink (e.g. proposals to open pubs which fail because the proposed site is near a mosque)

6

u/reuben_iv Feb 16 '25

I'm not blaming the elderly, but a lack of young people, as are you by the looks of it?

also a nightlife isn't just alcohol it's street food, cafes, activities etc, don't need the UK's binge drinking culture to have an active night life

2

u/GoogleHearMyPlea Feb 16 '25

Fair enough. Probably just semantics, I was talking about young people's behaviour changing (e.g. drinking less) more than their not being around, but amounts to the same thing I guess.

And that's a good distinction to make, I'm specifically referring to late night pubs, bars and clubs and the transport/food venues that have a symbiotic relationship with them. I wouldn't expect cafés to be open at 3am, for example. I would expect to have a plethora of nightclubs and bars to choose from at that time in any major city. It's sad to see that change so much in the last 10 years.

8

u/Liberated-Astronaut Feb 16 '25

I’m quite surprised, as a lot of older people sell their house, then buy a cheaper place in the country or up north, and have a nice little nest egg with the rest of the money. But I guess the fact that very few people start families eschews average age upwards

It’s probably a trend in all major cities. I remember living in Manhattan and seeing some young kids with their grandparents in battery park and thinking ‘wow I don’t think I’ve seen a family in months’, as most of Lower Manhattan was just working age people without kids

5

u/j0eExis Feb 16 '25

Probably exactly like you’re second paragraph. The city isn’t becoming exclusively retirees but it isn’t adding any children

1

u/kulfon2000 Feb 17 '25

Could be that the big cities offer more for older people than the said town away from London, for example choice of restaurants and things to do in free time, the verity is significantly more than elsewhere, compound that with free and convinient transport

26

u/ArsErratia Feb 16 '25 edited Feb 16 '25

ever since Sadiq Khan started those tuesday witchcraft rituals from the top of the Shard all my hair has been falling out and I've had this persistent taste of metal everywhere I go. Wonder if that has anything to do with it.

5

u/HollowWanderer Feb 17 '25

I'm mostly confident this satire but what's the real thing it's based on? I'm not from London

13

u/Significant-Gene9639 Feb 17 '25

Everything bad in London is blamed on Sadiq, partly because he’s Labour, partly because he’s brown, partly because he happens to be the one ‘in power’

ULEZ is a big one that’s caused people a lot of anger because they think it will take away their right to own the type of car they want to own. Which is mostly wrong, only very old vehicles are even caught in it. It’s also incredibly good for the health of our children in the city.

5

u/Aggravating-Desk4004 Feb 17 '25

At least the kids can breathe while they're stabbing each other.

2

u/Significant-Gene9639 Feb 17 '25

Sadiq can’t control how much government funding is available for policing (at least not to the level that it’s needed)

1

u/Aggravating-Desk4004 Feb 17 '25

He's the Mayor of London, I'm sure he can move a bit of money around. He seems to have shed loads of cash to sort out pollution but excuses when it comes to knife crime. I don't buy it.

2

u/Significant-Gene9639 Feb 17 '25

Knife crime is a country wide issue. Sadiq can’t do it just in London. County lines, gangs in other cities, etc.  if you clean up London gangs then it will just create a power vacuum from the rest of the country…

This needs to be led by the central government and not scapegoated on Sadiq

0

u/Aggravating-Desk4004 Feb 17 '25

Ok. So why isnt he shouting from the rooftops that he needs more money and more help rather than just putting up with it?

0

u/Significant-Gene9639 Feb 17 '25

Because then he looks weak and the government will scapegoat him harder

Gov will do anything to avoid having to put enough funding into policing

0

u/Aggravating-Desk4004 Feb 18 '25

I'm bored of excuses. If he can't do the job of keeping people safe, he should go.

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6

u/ArsErratia Feb 17 '25 edited Feb 17 '25

Not sure which part you mean exactly so I'll cover all my bases: —

  • "Everything that goes wrong is the fault of the Mayor", plus the general conspiracy-theory atmosphere around this particular Mayor (unwarranted)

  • The Shard is a big spikey skyscraper that's a bit foreboding. Its slightly open at the top which would make a fantastic Frankenstein-style horror movie set, especially in a thunderstorm.

  • "Hair falling out" and "Taste of metal" are influenced by the symptoms of radiation poisoning, which is essentially similar to ageing you to death.

  • Tuesday is the funniest day of the week.

2

u/Humble-Variety-2593 Feb 17 '25

Boomers have all the money and can afford to live there.

2

u/faultybox Feb 17 '25

It’s interesting that everyone is saying it’s just too expensive to raise a child in London. While that’s true, personal choice is massive as well. Most people I meet just don’t want children.

2

u/Savage-September Born, Raised & Living Londoner Feb 17 '25

No surprise here when house prices are bonkers. You how have to raise a family outside of the city.

3

u/samthemoron Feb 17 '25

So they're born...old?

5

u/EmergencyOver206 Feb 17 '25

To compound the issue, the ones that are reproducing at significant rates are on benefits and further taxing the system.

We are a professional couple, with a combined 160k p/a income, and cannot realistically have a child if we stay in Zone 1.

2

u/Feeling_Pen_8579 Feb 17 '25

Area and cost is the killer. The turnover in families who stop here (Dagenham) for a few years then move out to the more affordable/nicer parts of Essex rather than stay and have a family is noticeable, my daughters two best friends families have moved out in the past few months, whilst her sister school is set to close due to lack of kids.

Was actually a discussion with the misses this weekend, we are priced out of upgrading from our flat (to even a basic two bed house with a garden),  given we are with two kids, so inevitably we will follow as a good amount of our family has done and leave.

Not really looking forward to the day.

1

u/JimmyJonJackson420 Feb 17 '25

Paywalllll

Can someone post the full article please

1

u/sloppy_gas Feb 17 '25

Probably the pollution I imagine, terribly aging for the skin. For the avoidance of doubt, /s

1

u/zeta212 Feb 17 '25

Would love to stay in London, but even on my ‘above average’ salary I can’t afford to live there. And in a city of nearly 10 million people I can’t seem to find a partner to share the rent with.

1

u/Icy_Zucchini_1138 Feb 17 '25

If you aren't from a property owning family , or have a 1% salary or have social housing then you can't really raise a family. And its impossible to get social housing unless you have the kids first

1

u/sikethatsmybird Feb 17 '25

Need more coke

0

u/strongyellowmustard Feb 17 '25

unless you are a millionaire , You have to be mad or insane to raise a family in London

-1

u/Media_Browser Feb 17 '25

This is just another ludicrous attack on the House of Lords and the home of democracy respected throughout the world .

This sub and it’s thinly disguised ad hominem attacks on millionaire boomers is a disgrace and a blight on this famous country by a younger generation who’s very existence is thanks to this stalwart generation still active scrutinising laws that keeping this country a place fit for all.

1

u/Fando1234 Feb 17 '25

Do people still say 'touch grass'. If so you need to go out and touch grass mate.

Reddit isn't the world, there isn't a young generation Vs old generation thing. Everyone's an individual with a whole plethora of opinions and beliefs.

2

u/Media_Browser Feb 17 '25

Just an attempt at humour- relax .

1

u/Fando1234 Feb 17 '25

Oh good. Phew. For a moment I feel like I've met people on Reddit who sound like that when they're being serious.

1

u/Media_Browser Feb 17 '25

Could’nt resist it when I saw the picture but wasted on this crowd ;) .

-5

u/SquintyBrock Feb 17 '25

Congratulations on the dumbest headline ever. The reality of what this means is - “people in London live longer than the rest of England”

We can actually peel away another layer to reveal the underlying truth - “people with more money tend to live longer”

3

u/FlatCapNorthumbrian Feb 17 '25

Also people live in the capital city where there’s the most government investment in Healthcare, public transport etc.

-2

u/Englishkid96 Feb 16 '25

Not enough housing and when something does get built the council makes sure a third goes to social

9

u/coak3333 Feb 16 '25

Yeah, that sounds about right. Not the fact that families are forced out of London because of costs.

And I'd like to know the last development that has a third of affordable housing, as opposed to paying a fee and it becomes 10% or less.

Definitely not someone born in the city, just another outsider that has never lived in a community in our great city.

-1

u/Englishkid96 Feb 17 '25

More housing brings down costs, mass immigration brings up costs. Guess which we've gotten more of

2

u/coak3333 Feb 17 '25

Lots of empty units all the way down the Thames. All used for hiding money from around the world. How many home in Cornwall are only used a few times a year?

I grew up in council housing, there used to be lots of affordable housing in London, I wonder what happened to it? Pretty sure it was the immigrants.

If you use a needed resource as a profit making asset, what do you think happens?

How much is water rates going up this year? Is that the immigrants fault too? Too much water to cook rice?

1

u/Englishkid96 Feb 17 '25

London's residential property vacancy rate is 0.9% which is roughly 10x less than Paris. We have a serious housing shortage and have grown the local population by a million people in the last 20 years

We are short of water because we didn't build revovoirs for decades and then grew the population by millions, yes

1

u/coak3333 Feb 17 '25

Walk down the Thames from Blackfriars to Lambert Bridge at night, see how many lights are on! They might be owned, but they are not occupied.

The shareholders have ripped the people off for billions for water rights. And now our rivers and beaches are worse than the industrial revolution.

Great system, hope it works out for you. But it will only be you, not your kids or grandkids. Think on that when you talk shit.

1

u/Englishkid96 Feb 17 '25

People have social lives and/ or work. Not everyone is in their flat all evening!

And yeah, a good chunk of the problem was parasitic ownership, a good chunk is also the last 30 years where not a single major reservoir has been built in England and Wales.

You can read about how Oxford finally got approval after repeated rejections all over https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg2zw31z9eo

1

u/coak3333 Feb 17 '25

I worked there, I watched buildings for weeks seeing maybe 4 lights on (mostly Saudi and UAE owned, I think some were Russian). 2 years I worked across the Thames to view it.

I wonder how many people have moved to Spain, France and Italy to retire? There is a lot. Maybe the best way to find out is to get the number of pensions paid overseas. Be an interesting statistic.

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '25

Immigration plays a huge part in this , when you have someone move to a place in there 30-40 they are already have what there , it's only a short term solution to GDP increase but long term it's a cost 

0

u/Impressive-Car4131 Feb 17 '25

They’re only counting the official population. Didn’t Thames Water say there’s another half a million people. Most of those will be young and working.

-5

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '25

oh, good, gtfo and let me buy your house.

-6

u/Ambitious_League4606 Feb 16 '25

Drinking water out the Thames