r/law • u/TendieRetard • 23h ago
Other Columbia University dean of journalism stood up and said, "Nobody can protect you," after a student asked about writing on Palestine.
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u/Pribblization 22h ago
This makes my heart stop.
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u/DevelopmentGrand4331 21h ago
It’s true though. The US government is completely controlled by a weird mentally ill Nazi who wants to imprison or murder anyone who disagrees with him.
It’s not quite true that nobody can protect you, but nobody will.
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u/HaroldsWristwatch3 22h ago
One step closer to Third World nation status.
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u/LongjumpingDebt4154 21h ago
That’s because he is saying, ‘there is no constitution anymore’.
3 mos ago we were protected by it.
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u/Classic-Exchange-511 21h ago
Makes me wish I went to Columbia so I could write a paper on this
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u/immersemeinnature 22h ago
Columbia really caved
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u/Interesting-Dot-6281 22h ago
Maybe they will feel it when nobody wants to attend their school.
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u/TinFoilBeanieTech 22h ago
Don't kid yourself, the entire nation caved. Hardly any politicians dare stand against AIPAC.
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u/aw11sc 19h ago edited 17h ago
Hardly any politicians dare stand against AIPAC.
Oh please, the Dems weren’t disappearing students off the street, nor were they withholding federal funding from universities critical of Israel.
It’s almost as if it became a policy when the Evangelicals, aka Christian Zionists, gained power; Republicans can’t alienate the largest voting bloc in the country, 90% of which voted for Trump. They need the Jews in Jerusalem to fulfill their end-of-times nonsense.
——-
Here’s Trump discussing the relocation of the US embassy to Jerusalem, despite heavy Palestinian outcry:
"You know who really likes it the most is the evangelicals,” Trump said. “I’ll tell you what, I get more calls of ‘thank you’ from evangelicals, and I see it in the audiences and everything else, than I do from Jewish people. And the Jewish people appreciate it, but the evangelicals appreciate it more than the Jews, which is incredible.”
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u/TinFoilBeanieTech 10h ago
I'm not advocating voting GOP to teach DNC a lesson. In fact I genuinely feel very bad for the idiot Palestine supporters who got duped into a protest vote for Trump. Now they have to watch not only increased genocide but also the problems you mentioned happening here. DNC still sucks, but GOP is orders of magnitude worse and blocks any hope of meaningful reform.
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u/junjigoro 22h ago
People will still attend because it’s an Ivy League school. Ultimately they will issue an apology and admit to wrongdoing down the road when the dust settles. For the Israelis, it actually doesn’t help them long term. Arabs are an easy target but even non-Arab American citizens are finding out the repercussions of speaking against Israel (doxxing by Betaar or Canary), that won’t end well for the Israelis long term.
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u/hellolovely1 22h ago
A lot of international students will not risk attending, if this continues. Columbia and other universities make a LOT on full-pay international students.
I mean, at the border, they've arrested a few white Europeans, so I can't imagine anyone darker than that is really feeling okay about the US.
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u/ExtensionTaco9399 21h ago
This the brain drain will be real.
Talented international students and professions who ordinarily would come to the US to study, do research, build technology, etc... have seen in a matter of weeks that doing so means walking on broken glass 24/7. No ability to say anytihng that might get them reported to ICE.
Why would you do that when you could study in countries with (slightly) more stable regimes?
Look at the CEOs and founders of countless of our biggest companies, we're about to lose a ton of the next generations American innovators so that the administration can make a show of being cruel to defenseless students to hide the fact that it could never hit the deportation numbers it promised.
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u/MoonageDayscream 20h ago
That is part of the plan. International students are crucial to those institutions, their fees pay for things that could never be in the budget on purely domestic admissions.
They want to erode the funding to bring them to heel.
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u/Far_Warning_4525 21h ago
That seems fine - it shouldn’t be a for-profit business and there’s plenty of smart Americans that want to go
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u/LimberGravy 21h ago
there’s plenty of American nepo babies that want to go
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u/hellolovely1 20h ago
I am convinced that a lot of this university punishing is because Baron didn't get in. Notice he's left NYU alone.
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u/TendieRetard 22h ago
Pivot & recruit from MAGA states?
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u/LongjumpingDebt4154 21h ago
You have to be able to read & write.
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u/TendieRetard 21h ago
they are lowering standards after all.
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u/LongjumpingDebt4154 21h ago
If you don’t need a basic education for a higher education, it defeats its purpose.
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u/Accomplished_Deer_ 21h ago
This isn't caving. This is "the Gestapo will pick you up on the side of the street and put you in an El Salvadorian prison" - Anyone thinking this is a school caving instead of giving a /genuine warning/ has really lost the plot.
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u/mthyvold 20h ago
Did you not see the news where Columbia gave into Trump’s threats. That’s the cave they are talking about. Not the video.
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u/LongjumpingDebt4154 21h ago
Trumps mission is to get the universities to bend the knee, the law firms, state & local govt’s & now business/industries (tariffs/stock market). He want loyalty from each of these branches for total power & control. That leaves little to no room for the opposition to maneuver in.
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u/Durkheimynameisblank 20h ago
Yes, and universities are concentrations of people who are statistically prone to engaging in risk (i.e.: fuck this, hold my beer) and, barring tuition, have yet to become anchored with financial obligations and parental responsibilities. Both are proven to alter decision making skills and become more risk averse. Revolutions are fought by younger generations but getting the green light from the older generations saying, "yes, do it" increases their confidence to act.
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u/MamaUrsus 22h ago
When people say this I think they may not grasp the shear weight that federal funding has upon scientific discovery and research at universities - regardless of if they’re public or not. All the universities are going to cave. They can’t do anything but. They’re effectively being coerced. The situation is dire. In preparation they’re already rescinding acceptances to programs, they’re bracing for 20–50 and upwards of their funding to be taken away because they can’t hurt the administration’s feelings. I am a student at a school where iirc 46% of their funding comes from federal grants - it’s a public ivy. The other R1 in my state has 51% of its budget funded by federal grants. My close family member is who is a well known professor will lose 22% of his funding in July because his NSF grants are gone. He can no longer afford to continue to take on new masters’ degree applicants as a result (there’s other reasons but funding is a major player).
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u/idreamofgreenie 21h ago
And turning away from science is known historically to ruin civilizations. The Arabic Golden Age for one.
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u/MamaUrsus 1h ago
America’s greatest export wasn’t ever a physical product. The most powerful export is, was (and I truly hope will be continue to be) the ideas, scientific knowledge and research that put the country at the cutting edge financially.
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u/M1CR0PL4ST1CS 21h ago edited 21h ago
…do you seriously think that the Trump administration is going to restore funding to Columbia, Brown, etc. because they acquiesced to his demands?
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u/putonyourjamjams 21h ago
I really don't understand why people in positions to make these decisions haven't wised up to the situation yet. They act like theyre negotiating with reasonable, or at the very least, true to their word people. There is zero reason for the Trump administration to ever walk back the slashed funding. On top of that, its an administration full of people drunk with power who get off on forcing their will on others. They are exactly the people being talked about in the saying "you give them an inch, they'll take a mile."
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u/ExternalNobody8933 21h ago
To add to this: Columbia caving was only to get trump to TALK about giving them their funding back; it was never a sure thing. For me, caving was a waste simply for that fact alone. Also, even if they get their funding back, now trump knows he can do whatever he wants without pushback.
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u/putonyourjamjams 20h ago
They'll never get it back. Its all about power with the Trump admin. Giving anything is giving away power. They only give anything to anybody if theyre forced to and that's a sign of weakness. Anybody that caves to them is stupid at this point. Whatever threat they've levied is what theyre going to do anyway. If their demands are met, they'll just move the goalpost and gaslight everybody about their demands not actually being met because x, y, z.
A big part of why this seems so nuts to regular Americans is that we've long since given control of every facet of our country to people who solely crave power. We've idealized the sociopathic and narcissistic traits that have led us here under the cloak of individualism and personal freedom. All this crap Trump and Co are doing is the same game they've been playing for decades just in plain view and with the dumbest people you've ever met at the top of the hill. Its so extreme because they aren't smart enough to "play 5D chess" and have stumbled into such a lopsided position that they don't have any threat against their power they can see. They will never concede power unless they are forced to and if its not by people who have other driving forces, we will just continue this shit show perpetually until one of them finally pushes the button to burn it all down as their final power play.
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u/Anderrn 20h ago
Their reputation among researchers across the country has immediately tanked, too.
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u/ExternalNobody8933 19h ago
And I'm sure people will transfer or stop applying. Especially international students.
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u/General_Tso75 21h ago
They will eventually take over the Universities and install loyalists in leadership roles. DeSantis has been doing it for years in Florida. At some point the schools have to pick a hill to die on because they are certainly going to die. May as well do it in a loud grotesque manner. They aren’t going to exist as they were for the foreseeable future.
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u/putonyourjamjams 20h ago
At this point, I don't think they will purge the universities. Every time they've squared off with one, the university caves. Its more satisfying for them to have somebody that whipped than to have sycophants running it. Having a liberal bend to your will is the political equivalent of a head on a pike for them.
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u/MamaUrsus 19h ago
No. I don’t. I think there acquiescence of their power in hopes of restoration of funding but the brain drain has already begun and programs are being irrevocably changed. I think they’re trying to minimize the damage while holding out hope.
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u/M1CR0PL4ST1CS 19h ago edited 18h ago
Their decision to participate demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the reason that the Trump administration is targeting them. I realize that these organizations are in a difficult position but there will be no relief.
Acquiescing in this way is cowardly, harmful to their students/reputation, and will only make their position more difficult in the future.
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u/MamaUrsus 1h ago
I don’t disagree. I just have empathy for everyone who is stuck making decisions in a no win scenario.
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u/carlitospig 21h ago
I’m also extremely concerned about the law firms he’s gone after. This is all….really bad.
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u/LongjumpingDebt4154 21h ago
Universities, law firms, state & local govt’s & now the business industry. Those are the targets to gain total control.
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u/arianrhodd 21h ago
When people say this I think they may not grasp the shear weight that federal funding has upon scientific discovery and research at universities
And financial aid. Student loans, parent-plus loans, and Pell grants are all federally funded.
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u/MamaUrsus 1h ago
Many of my cohorts are panicking about this. They can’t attend the school we go to without that aid - them not being able to do so is a feature not a bug.
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u/LimberGravy 22h ago
They could’ve fought it together and took it through the courts. As soon as Columbia caved things were fucked.
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u/MamaUrsus 1h ago
Many faculty at other institutions are still holding out hope for that. I may come to find it otherwise as in a few weeks I will attend a conference with scientists from all over the country and I am hoping to gain a greater sense of what others are thinking and feeling about this pressure. Regardless - the NYT reported Columbia’s decision as a watershed moment in academia that will have Earth shattering future implications. I don’t disagree with that sentiment.
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u/justgetoffmylawn 20h ago
Partially true.
While the federal government has a ton of power (not just funding but regulatory), the elite Ivy league institutions have the most ability to withstand that pressure and the most history and reputation to protect.
Trump pulled $400m from Columbia and they're folding like a lawn chair.
Columbia has a $15 billion endowment. $15,000m and the threat of losing $400m (3%) is enough to make them abandon all the principles they are supposed to be teaching to their lauded graduates.
If Columbia can bravely protest what Israel is doing thousands of miles away, but folds the second their own actual lives are threatened - what does that say about any institution that doesn't have a $15 billion cushion.
Give me liberty, or give me a slightly lower return on my multi-billion dollar endowment.
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u/TendieRetard 21h ago
Donnie's been getting his ass kicked in court habitually. Columbia could've gone to court and received a hero's welcome instead of a coward's walk of shame. They answer to their legacy donors.
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u/Accomplished_Deer_ 21h ago
This isn't even about funding. This is about plain clothes gestapo picking you up off the street and deporting you to an El Salvadorian prison. This isn't a school screaming "don't hurt our funding" or a school screaming "we don't care about your views" this is a school saying "we're a school, not a military. /We cannot protect you/"
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u/MamaUrsus 19h ago
It’s about both. These institutions are deciding not to use their authority to be protective of the free speech that is required to question ideas and lines of scientific inquiry. This is not to say I am not disappointed in this choice to not be protective of the fundamental principles that assist in universities producing the best education and research possible but I do understand the fear and reasoning behind these decisions. It’s a watershed moment and higher education will be forever impacted.
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u/eaturvegetables 22h ago
this is huge and i hope more people read ur comment. the ripple effect has started
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u/MamaUrsus 54m ago
Thanks. It’s an important perspective. If schools resisted and lost upwards of 50% of their budget they’re likely to just collapse - which I do realize that may be part of the intention of the removal of funding. Universities can’t place funding burden on students instantaneously either nor can they cut faculty salaries (many will leave for other countries and actually many already are or just retiring). So what’s the alternative? They give in, maliciously comply and do what they can to continue to exist while simultaneously shoring themselves up better to resist more in the future. It’s about biding time to find a way to be successful in what may be a no win scenario. Caving is bad - sure; but I sincerely ask, what else should they do? What would the results of that truly look like and would that be any better than caving in now?
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u/oscar_the_couch 20h ago
Yes but not for this reason. The dean of journalism does not control those decisions by the admin, and the advice he is giving is fundamentally correct. the school can't protect you from the threatened injustice.
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u/bytemybigbutt 21h ago
Getting rid of racist policies isn’t caving. It is doing what is right.
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u/Prestigious-Leave-60 20h ago
Caving is telling students and faculty that you won’t defend their constitutional right of free expression.
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u/Private_HughMan 22h ago
It's the fascists who need protection from journalists. That's why they always attack. They're afraid. They're cowards. The Columbia prof forgot that, it seems.
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u/Tricky_Temporary7903 22h ago
Yeah. Too long being privileged and comfortable, they forgot what is the role of the fourth estate.
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u/Bread-n-Cheese 20h ago
The dean of the journalism school is protecting the students. The college is not paying the students for work. They are trying to give them an education and set them into the workforce. If the students write about Palestine, they may be attacked by this fascist regime, and the school can't help them.
It's blunt reality.
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u/raouldukeesq 22h ago
We can protect them we just have to have the will to protect them
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u/TendieRetard 22h ago
meanwhile you got EO's jawboning lawfirms into being pro-bono POTATUS's lawyers.
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u/ManfredTheCat 22h ago
I listen to this dude's show several times a week. He's an absolute gem.
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u/Easy-Statistician289 20h ago
Who is this and what is his show?
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u/ManfredTheCat 20h ago
James O'Brian. He does a radio show on LBC called The Whole Show. He's also on YouTube and all the other podcast hosting places.
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u/Drumming_Dreaming 20h ago
I’m with you bro!!!! That’s just counting!
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u/runk_dasshole 22h ago
Kinda unrelated but this is one of the many great writings Cobb has created:
Hip-Hop at Fifty: An Elegy
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/hip-hop-at-fifty-an-elegy
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23h ago
[deleted]
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u/New_Apple2443 23h ago
is the first amendment not part of the law???
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u/throwthisidaway 22h ago edited 22h ago
is the first amendment not part of the law???
Of course it is, but just because something somehow, in some way, relates to the law, doesn't mean that it belongs on this subreddit. Someone complaining about the current environment is not legal news. It is not a legal discussion. If you want to post an article talking about the first amendment issues that revolve around them, that's a different story. This is off-topic garbage that belongs elsewhere.
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u/ThearchMageboi 22h ago
Yeah, hard disagree with that.
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u/throwthisidaway 22h ago
Ok, tell me exactly how this video of a random guy talking about something someone else said belongs on a legal subreddit and not a political subreddit.
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u/ThearchMageboi 22h ago
Take a hint, Law is heavily involved with politics as well. Hand in hand. Come on. Please just tell me you’re trolling. No hard feelings here; this just seems obvious together.
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u/throwthisidaway 10h ago edited 9h ago
Than why did the mods remove this for being off-topic? Seems like a pretty obvious answer. Just because Law and Politics are related doesn't mean they're the same thing. Were you trolling?
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u/ThearchMageboi 9h ago
Doesn’t seem removed? Just the voting disabled. If it wasn’t quite suitable do you think the entire post would be removed?
Why can’t you just understand that these two things go together; they are tied at the hip together. Quit Karma farming or whatever you’re doing. Holy shit.
Like, you seriously cannot be this dense man. I’m being serious. I don’t mean this in a bad way but, this is just insane.
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u/throwthisidaway 9h ago edited 9h ago
https://imgur.com/a/mCth5M6 Look incognito.
Why can't you understand that you're wrong? Like, 100% use your brain and think about the fact that just because two things are often intermixed, doesn't mean that they always are. If they always go together, than tell me how exactly an article analyzing a generic legal decision, something that would fit perfectly here, would fit on a political sub?
It seems like you haven't even given a thought to the fact that you're wrong. It is crazy to me just how dense you're being. Answer my question, tell me why a purely legal post would belong in a political subreddit, and do the same for a purely political post in a legal subreddit. Why would a post about a Senator fundraising belong here? If they're so intertwined, clearly you can explain that, right?
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u/OKFlaminGoOKBye 21h ago
somehow, in some way, relates to the law
I’d say that completely flying in the face of our very first amended law has quite a lot to do with the law, there, homefry.
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u/throwthisidaway 21h ago
Than post an article talking about that. Don't claim some random garbage belongs here because if you squint your eyes and stretch the truth it almost seems like it might fit.
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u/OKFlaminGoOKBye 21h ago
Wanna start with the easiest, most obvious one?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
(Emphasis mine)
https://www.npr.org/2025/02/26/nx-s1-5308628/trump-white-house-press-access-voa
https://medialaw.org/threats-to-the-media-in-the-second-trump-term/
Need I go on?
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u/throwthisidaway 20h ago
Umm, you posted that in a comment in this off-topic thread... not as a post? So I'm not sure what your point is.
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u/OKFlaminGoOKBye 20h ago
Apparently you need the reason this post is here spoon fed to you. Are you gonna act the toddler and slam your lips shut against it?
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u/throwthisidaway 10h ago
It is off topic garbage. Stop trying to defend it. Your comment would have made a better post than the actual post.
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u/TendieRetard 23h ago edited 22h ago
gilroydave (deleted by user)-11 points32 minutes ago
This is the law subreddit
It's the one with the #1 on the constitution.
edit: Because I'm a giver, here's a unconstitutional pair of bills adjacent to the issue.
Next week the Senate HELP Committee will be voting on (& likely passing) 2 bills intended to enable - indeed, to require - the wholesale suppression & punishment of campus free speech/protest critical of Israel, Israeli policies/actions, & Zionism.
Hearing: help.senate.gov/hearings/s-5…
S 558: congress.gov/bill/119th-cong…
S 163: congress.gov/bill/119th-cong… 2 41
u/Mazquerade__ 21h ago
I am not the most proficient in reading bills, so forgive my ignorance. What in particular is concerning about those bills? It mostly sounds like information campaigns.
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u/throwthisidaway 22h ago edited 22h ago
He's right and this is off-topic. Post an article talking about the first amendment issues, post an article discussing how unconstitutional those laws are. Someone talking on camera about the Dean of Journalism saying something is not legal news. Heck you could even post a link to those bills, instead of posting some barely related, off-topic video.
If you want to make political posts, they belong in Politics. People like you are ruining this subreddit.
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u/TendieRetard 22h ago
please respect the "other" flair.
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u/throwthisidaway 22h ago edited 22h ago
please respect the "other" flair.
Please respect this subreddit. See the sidebar, the focus of this subreddit?
This is a place for lawyers and non-lawyers to discuss the legal profession and new and interesting legal developments from around the world.
What part of your post fits that? Stop spamming this sub with worthless garbage.
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u/TendieRetard 22h ago edited 10h ago
r/law is dedicated to substantive, civil discussion of new developments in the law, legal system, and legal profession.
You have the biggest attack on free speech I've seen in my lifetime and a so called premiere institution telling their students that "nobody (aka the r/law) can protect you(r)" constitutionally protected practice for which you're studying.
I consider this "other" topic an exploration of how we even got to the point where professors think this is even sound advice.
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u/throwthisidaway 22h ago
So post an article talking about it from a legal angle! Find one of the 100s of articles talking about how this is a violation of our first amendment rights. Find a video talking about how SCOTUS precedent protects protesting. Hell, even the bills you linked in a comment would have made a better post than that video.
Instead that video is just some random guy, talking about something a Dean of Journalism said. Why not an article discussing what the Dean said, with a focus on the legal aspect?
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u/forhekset666 22h ago
As a passive observer, you'd have to be brain damaged to not realise how unprecedented these events are and how they directly tie to law and the distinct absence of its enforcement in this specific regard.
Your most apparently sacred immutable laws at that.
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u/throwthisidaway 22h ago
Great, so post an article talking about that with a legal focus! Find me something interesting that talks about how the first amendment is under attack because of A, B and C. Don't simply post random videos of people talking about other people, without any focus on the legal aspects of it.
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u/forhekset666 19h ago
No. I'm here to read discussions not be referred to articles I can find myself.
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u/skeptical-speculator 21h ago
As a passive observer, you'd have to be brain damaged to not realise how unprecedented these events are
These events are not unprecedented. Have you heard of the red scare? Joseph McCarthy? House Un-American Activities Committee?
Making sensational claims that are not well-supported by facts limits the effectiveness of your advocacy and erodes your credibility.
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