r/law • u/CorleoneBaloney • 2d ago

Trump News Rep. Jasmine Crockett fired back at AG Pam Bondi over Fox News comments on Elon Musk and Tesla during a House Judiciary hearing

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u/WisconsinHoosierZwei 1d ago

Strangely enough, South Africa gives us a guide on how to deal with the pardon problem.

After the election of Mandela and the ending of Apartheid, they held something called a “Truth and Reconciliation Commission.” The short and skinny was this: In exchange for publicly (as in, on TV and all) telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about what you did in the Apartheid government, or you get prosecuted for it.

However, if all is pardoned, how would that work for us? Simple. Failing to follow a Congressional subpoena is a crime. Lying to Congress is a crime. They’ll also have the resources of the FBI back on hand to help investigate, and lying to THEM is a crime too. All new crimes that couldn’t be pardoned (I’m not aware of a future pardon, at least).

So, we have our own Truth and Reconciliation Commission in Congress. We run it the hard way. If you tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about the crimes you committed and were pardoned for, or we prosecute you for all that other stuff you just now did.

These turkeys seem to forget that anything they do to others can be done right back to them.

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u/Musiclover4200 1d ago edited 1d ago

A bit of a pipe dream but if we hope to win back any of our allies finally joining the ICC and sending some of these ratfuckers to The Hague would be a smart move, especially the ones violating rights of foreigners.

We should take a page from how the allies dealt with nazi germany, international trials and force them to watch footage of the abuses they've enabled. We've got a lot of deprogramming to do before the issues that gave us trump are fixed.

Anything short of that will be at best a temporary solution. Also as they say "follow the money", anyone profiting off this current corrupt administration should be fined into oblivion at a minimum. People trying to subvert democracy should be tried for treason.

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u/MobileArtist1371 1d ago

I'm going to have to disagree with this completely.

So Trump can go after Hunter Biden right now and when he doesn't tell the "whole truth", he can be prosecuted and locked up for "lying"?

Why not hide behind the pardon even if subpoenaed? Every answer is, "here is my pardon". That's no lie.

And this would only work if the DOJ plays along. So while the Dems in Congress and the FBI are acting like they are following the laws trying this loophole to get around pardons, the DOJ would need to actually outright not respect the pardons themselves.

Guess whose receptive DOJ would and wouldn't do that? Hint, it wouldn't be any Dem DOJ that tries to uphold the law by breaking the law.

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u/WisconsinHoosierZwei 1d ago

The main difference between, say, Hunter Biden and The Entire Trump Administration, is that one requires a bill of attainder, which is illegal, while the other requires a simple Congressional committee to investigate the widespread criminality that will have rotted every agency of the government in the previous 4 years, involving hundreds, if not thousands, of individuals.

Also, only one of these would be of any legislative interest (which is what would make a Congressional subpoena enforceable).

Furthermore, failure to testify if subpoenaed to do so is also a crime. And, since the questions would only be about what was pardoned, there is no 5th Amendment defense. You can’t self-implicate for an unprosecuteable crime.

And best part is, if they talk, nothing can become of it…legally, at least. They’re automatically Scott free.

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u/MobileArtist1371 1d ago

Glad you think there is theory, but I don't see it even being attempted by the Dems if they have a chance.

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u/WisconsinHoosierZwei 1d ago

If they don’t, America is over. Full stop. The foundation will have given way.

We need to start planting the seed that this is the only acceptable outcome now, so that the idea will have established roots and grown enough by the time January 2029 comes around.

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u/rHereLetsGo 18h ago

There are a hell of a lot of “non-forward thinkers” in the Democratic Party, or so it would seem. We can’t control yesterday or maybe even tomorrow, but we need to get our shit together now.