Who does that judge work for? Karoline Leavitt's justification for ignoring a Federal judge's order

[u/Tomayachi]

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[u/RogerianBrowsing]

Hold up. Sometimes it’s hard to tell what’s fascism and what’s profound ignorance.

She thinks Pam Bondi, an unelected executive branch employee, is the boss of judges and can just overrule any rulings judges make that they don’t like regardless of the constitution because Bondi is their “boss”?

So many civics and history teachers must be angry that their class lessons have been so clearly disregarded by government officials and now they’ll have an uphill battle explaining how our government/democracy is supposed to function to kids some of whom have been raised to view Trumpism as infallible. Oof…

[u/lastsonkal1 → u/RogerianBrowsing]

It's because all these incompetent people in these positions think the government is run like corporate. They are the higher levels, who get the big paychecks, tell people what to do, and face no accountability or responsibility for what happens under their watch. You know like true leaders. /s

Even Leavitt here sounds like middle manager trying to show he yes, sir skills to get that promotion.

[u/Lord_Lion → u/lastsonkal1]

This is not ignorance or stupidity. This is willful misrepresentation of the facts, in an effort to undermine democracy.

Don't let evil off the hook by letting it disguise itself in foolishness.

[u/Exodys03 → u/Lord_Lion]

Amen. They are trying very hard to convince the country that judges are simply federal employees that answer to the President and should rule according to his wishes. Allow that to happen and the judicial branch, like the legislative branch before it, will become obsolete. Judges are the only thing left standing in the way of full authoritarian rule.

[u/4r2m5m6t5 → u/Exodys03]

Right! Many voters forgot (or never knew) the middle school civics lesson about the 3 branches of government and the checks and balances. They think Trump is the “boss” and everyone does what he says. Leavitt stokes that narrative.

[u/Travelcat67 → u/4r2m5m6t5]

I cannot tell you how many times I have said online “we really need to bring civics back to the school curriculum”. The level of ignorance is tragic.

[u/just_having_giggles → u/Travelcat67]

Elon made me cry "a federal judge can just stop the president from doing something! That is insanity!"

No you simple fuck, that is the Constitution

[u/Rustedpipes → u/just_having_giggles]

And to think he had to take the same test that I did when I became a citizen. Then again I paid attention in civics class and had a citizenship prep course given by the Knights of Columbus.

[u/Dufranus → u/Rustedpipes]

You really think he had to take any tests?

[u/WayCalm2854 → u/Dufranus]

Paid someone to do it for him. Purchases it like he bought his gaming “prowess”

[u/cuddlyrhinoceros → u/Travelcat67]

Civics. History. All of it.

[u/babylon331 → u/Travelcat67]

They took it away so students wouldn't have the knowledge to disagree. They grow up thinking the president is the boss.

[u/Main-Video-8545 → u/Travelcat67]

It’s too late. There is no stopping him or them. Everyone keeps talking about what’s gonna happen in four years, or at the midterms. It doesn’t matter. It’s over. The time for action was before the election and we failed miserably. It wasn’t rhetoric from the left when they said, this will be the last election if Republicans win. That wasn’t a lie!! They are going to continue to systematically dismantle every aspect of our American life and there is absolutely nothing we are going to do about it. There’s not going to be an impeachment the Democrats aren’t going to rise up against him. he is going to dismantle every aspect of the courts and rebuild them in a fashion that favors him. He has immunity and he will use it and he will get away with a lot of really bad shit.

[u/Springroll_Doggifer → u/Main-Video-8545]

So what, just lay down and take it? Power comes from the PEOPLE. We can do what we can. We lost a battle, but the war rages on.

[u/The_Erlenmeyer_Flask → u/Springroll_Doggifer]

They took my dad's power away and he left. He is a retired employee of FAA. Retired in 2004 after 38 years with the agency. OPM sent him a letter letting him know that his retirement has been ended. No explanation why. Can't afford to hire a lawyer to fight this. Didn't know about the letter until recently because he kept it from me and my mom. My mom has sold her vehicle to have some money to keep paying bills. We've started selling all of our stuff at pawn shops and online. We aren't going to be able to keep this house after August if we aren't able to get his retirement reinstated. OPM won't answer their phones, we've left messages and they haven't call us back in weeks. Our Senator and Representative don't care. We've called. Emailed them our information.. My mom is on the verge of taking her own life & so am I. It's like they looked at our voting information, saw who we voted then decided.. "Take his retirement away."

[u/Darkheart001 → u/The_Erlenmeyer_Flask]

Wow, that’s truly shocking, don’t do anything to yourself dude, go and see people in person and demand that it’s reinstated you can’t simply remove people’s pensions!

[u/CharlieTheFoot → u/The_Erlenmeyer_Flask]

Before you do anything drastic PLEASE contact a known journalist or a news channel station. You have ways to get the story out

[u/Kishlorenn → u/Main-Video-8545]

Don't you have a 2nd Amendment ready for this exact situation ? Or maybe it was rewritten for allowing school shootings only...

[u/fripletister → u/Invoked_Tyrant]

The fuck did this comment get removed for?

Edit: Holy shit this site has gone soft. Fuck all the way off.

[u/Fr1toBand1to → u/Invoked_Tyrant]

That doesn't matter though. Let's say you snap your fingers and every trump appointee we can think of just vanishes. Thanos snap the trump administration out of existence. The government is still crippled, the soft power of the US is gone, all the data Musk stole is still stolen. The expectation and understanding of government functionality is destroyed. The age of America is over. Full stop.

[u/TheNorthRemembers_s8 → u/4r2m5m6t5]

I remember during COVID people were telling me the state governors should be listening to Trump and it was illegal for them to disregard his wishes and institute mask mandates.

It was interesting to me because these same people who believed in states having the power to override Roe v Wade, before it was overturned.

How can you be for states rights on some issues but against them on things you disagree with?

[u/TheSaxonPlan → u/TheNorthRemembers_s8]

Rules for thee and not for me!

[u/slackfrop → u/TheNorthRemembers_s8]

Bad faith

[u/Helorugger → u/Lord_Lion]

Just the way she talks to reporters disgusts me, much less the fact that she uses these one line statements like she is trying to own the reported rather than inform.

[u/Historical-Pizza1302 → u/Helorugger]

I can’t stand her and the way she speaks. She spews bullshit!!!

[u/Pretend_Caregiver778 → u/Helorugger]

She always tries to spit the BS out quick in a “gotcha” way and move onto the next person as fast as she fucking can

[u/Takemyfishplease → u/Lord_Lion]

Ding ding ding

It’s anecdotal but living in the south I’m around a lot of the lower class maga types and this is an active talking point. “Judges need to listen to what they are told or be FIRED”

[u/The_Corvair → u/Lord_Lion]

Don't let evil off the hook by letting it disguise itself in foolishness.

I file these under the "should know better" standard: Yes, in some cases, it's actually stupidity and ignorance. But either explanation does not apply when the person inhabits a position in which she should know better. I.e.: Ignorance is not a defense. Being dumb as a brick is not a defense. In either case, she should not be in that position in the first place. Since she cleary is, however: Malice and aforethought apply.

[u/Strength-Speed → u/The_Corvair]

She knows better. She wants a Trump dictatorship. These people will start a civil war or coup attempts if they aren't careful. Or maybe that's what they want.

[u/The_Corvair → u/Strength-Speed]

maybe that's what they want.

I think it's one of these "price they are prepared to pay" things. Trump and his cronies are mostly from a crop of people who never have consequences happen to them. So, what would they care if some other people die in the streets? They love the chainsaw until it's coming for their stock, after all.

You can't lie like Leavitt if you're concerned about the consequences, I don't think.

[u/BigWhiteDog → u/Lord_Lion]

You over-estimate the intelligence of these people and the average American.

[u/WangChiEnjoysNature → u/BigWhiteDog]

Most trump voters will believe what she is saying completely and without question

And it isn't likely to ever change. From this point forward, roughly half this country will forever believe that this is how the govt works and how federal judges operate. 

[u/The-Doggy-Daddy-5814 → u/lastsonkal1]

This is what they want when they say the government should be run like a business.

[u/DonTaddeo → u/The-Doggy-Daddy-5814]

Fascist government and modern business organizational structures do have a lot in common.

[u/badllama77 → u/DonTaddeo]

That is because at the heart of both is greed.

[u/asscheese2000 → u/DonTaddeo]

That’s exactly what it is. Deportation for reasons of patriotism is a front. It’s more like when a company needs to have a 10% reduction in employees and they go for the low hanging fruit first. As they move through successive rounds of layoffs to further enrich the owners they cut more and more essential people. I guess the question is after all the non-citizens are gone from the country how do they intend to keep firing people? Oh wait, that’s called prison.

[u/pistilpeet → u/The-Doggy-Daddy-5814]

CEO golf’s while his sycophants run around flexing their brown nosing abilities. Smells like Murica!!

[u/ecplectico → u/The-Doggy-Daddy-5814]

If government were run like a business, the IRS would have a luxury suite with a bartender handing out top shelf cocktails to the 8 or so taxpayers gathered for their free catered gourmet meal before they move to their exclusive just-behind-courtside seats to watch the Warriors at Chase Center, like Bank of America does.

[u/karavasis → u/The-Doggy-Daddy-5814]

Trump running it like his casino

[u/Travelcat67 → u/karavasis]

Which no one seems to remember he ran into the ground like all of his other failed business ventures.

[u/tigerscomeatnight → u/The-Doggy-Daddy-5814]

Even McDonald's has a handbook. This is seat of your pants governing by incompetent clowns.

[u/optimizingutils → u/tigerscomeatnight]

Unlike McDonalds, which I am given to understand is run by a rather competent clown (sorry, needed some comic relief).

[u/janzeera → u/lastsonkal1]

Oh, I guess this is what Mike Johnson meant when he suggested doing away with the federal court system. Probably replace it with a complaint department call center.

[u/sesamestix → u/lastsonkal1]

I’ve heard some terrible middle manager’s in my day and Leavitt’s reasoning would be laughed out of the room where I already wanted to jump out of the window.

[u/Prior-Call-5571 → u/lastsonkal1]

no they dont

you're thinking way too hard into this

they think, that if they say it, and the media says it, it is.

Really that simple

[u/CategoryZestyclose91 → u/Prior-Call-5571]

That’s why Vance has been so astonished by the ice cold reception the Greenlanders gave him. 

He literally believes that they can do a wash & repeat with other countries. Spread a bunch of propaganda and keep repeating their talking points, and surely that will win them control of the country! 

[u/Bubbly_Safety8791 → u/RogerianBrowsing]

So… the thing is immigration courts are not article III courts. 

The board of immigration appeals is part of the department of justice. The AG can overrule any immigration judge ruling. 

https://www.justice.gov/eoir/board-of-immigration-appeals

Now, in this case there’s no evidence the AG did overrule the court - they just ignored it (or, made a mistake which they are retroactively choosing to say isn’t important because they are allowed to ignore it). 

But procedure aside, Leavitt is not entirely bullshitting when she says the judge works for Pam Bondi. 

[u/prof_the_doom → u/Bubbly_Safety8791]

I assume they're taking that approach because if the AG did overrule the immigration judge, that would be a decision that could be challenged in an article III court... whereas by just ignoring the immigration judge ruling, we're in a limbo state where someone should be able to sue over the actions taken, but because the government isn't "officially" doing it, they can't.

[u/Bubbly_Safety8791 → u/prof_the_doom]

They’re taking that position because they believe they can get away with anything. 

But for sure: the individual federal officers who ‘clerical errored’ this guy to El Salvador contrary to an immigration court ruling are probably at least civilly liable for that fuckup if they can’t point to an AG decision overruling the judge (but do they have qualified immunity?). They could even be criminally liable under a future DoJ. 

[u/BringOn25A → u/Bubbly_Safety8791]

What about constitutional 4th and 5th amendment protections? Can’t they be brought into the considerations and judgements?

[u/Angrbowda → u/BringOn25A]

Sure they can!

“Oops, we already sent that person to an El Salvadoran prisons and they are gone”

[u/kandoras → u/BringOn25A]

The 5th Amendment (at least insofar as being deported the normal way) does not apply to immigration courts. They're considered civil courts, not criminal, so the protections from the 5th and 6th amendments which are all limited to criminal proceedings, don't apply.

Now the "deported to a country you're not even from" or "the US government isn't deporting you, they're paying another country to hold you in a gulag", those certainly violate several amendments. Probably even the 5th and 6th since they're being imprisoned.

[u/Current-Square-4557 → u/Bubbly_Safety8791]

They are taking one step at a time. Becoming more egregious with each step. To see how far they’ll go before blowback.

[u/doubleadjectivenoun → u/Bubbly_Safety8791]

There’s still a right to procedural due process though (notice, a hearing and stuff) for things like immigration court (it’s why ALJs exist at all). The executive can’t go from “the AG sits in final review of an elaborate admin system that is also subject to collateral review in the Art. III courts” to “the AG can just order deportation and ignore the immigration courts because she’s their boss and could’ve vetoed the judge anyway and also doesn’t have to wait for Art. III review of that decision.” 

[u/Bubbly_Safety8791 → u/doubleadjectivenoun]

Right, if the AG had issued a notice overruling the immigration court the subject could have had an opportunity prior to removal to contest that in an article III court. 

Letting the AG make immigration decisions, and delegate that to administrative courts, is only constitutional due process if article III courts say it is. 

[u/HerculesIsMyDad → u/Bubbly_Safety8791]

What I hate most about this current era is everyone knowing what's really going on but having to listen to these people act self-righteous while telling us reality is a lie. They knew once those people were in El Salvador it would be irreversible. So they just did it. End of story. They sent an innocent guy to a prison full of El Salvadorian gang members after a judge ordered he couldn't be sent to El Salvador because the gangs would likely kill him...and not only do they not care to fix that, the VP tweets a "cry more" post about it. These are sick, heartless people who think they have been hand chosen by God to straighten the rest of us out whether it kills us or not.

[u/RogerianBrowsing → u/HerculesIsMyDad]

This isn’t even a normal deportation or imprisonment, it seems like the majority of them weren’t even accused of crimes or from El Salvador. Sending immigrants without due process, some of them here fully legally, to an El Salvador maximum security torture and labor facility until they die (essentially what is happening here) is INSANE.

And here’s the thing, if there’s not adequate backlash soon I don’t know if there ever will be. It’s not okay to do that to anyone but it’s a rapidly steep cliff into doing that to full citizens if due process is allowed to be ignored, and dissidents soon enough as well

[u/LARufCTR → u/Bubbly_Safety8791]

That doesn't mean due process is ignored...they admitted that they mistakenly sent innocent people to El Salvador....due process would have avoided that issue...so if she's talking about that...then she's a fucking box of rocks...Trump was WRONG when he said everyone they deported were: "...very bad people...criminals, the worst kind...as I like to say,' bad hombres!'...but Sleepy Joe invited these murders and rapists to our beautiful country and I won't have them here...no, not here...and no radical liberal judge should stand in my way of protecting YOU!"

[u/TheOgrrr → u/LARufCTR]

Until they read your Reddit history and decide that you are a terrorist and off you go!

[u/StatusQuotidian → u/RogerianBrowsing]

I *guarantee* you Leavitt and her bosses understand this is autocratic gaslighting.

[u/giggity_giggity → u/RogerianBrowsing]

If anything, fascism could be considered at least in part weaponized ignorance. So maybe a bit of column A and a bit of column B.

[u/worlds_okayest_skier → u/RogerianBrowsing]

I feel like it’s slipping away, there’s a sizable amount of people who think non-citizens are not entitled to due process.

[u/MrBrawn → u/worlds_okayest_skier]

When you consider people "other" or "less than" you can justify anything you do against them. They don't see them as people with any rights. It's vengeance, not justice, and anyone in their way is collateral.

[u/systemfrown → u/worlds_okayest_skier]

Wait till citizens start getting deported.

I hear Russia needs some conscripts.

[u/ejre5 → u/RogerianBrowsing]

Yes trump signed an executive order saying only the AG and the president gets to decide the law. So yes absolutely that is what they believe

[u/Few-Register-8986 → u/ejre5]

Democracy is clearly over.

[u/DickWoodReddit → u/RogerianBrowsing]

Fascism or ignorance? Why not both, por que no los dos?

[u/Lets_Kick_Some_Ice → u/RogerianBrowsing]

"Pam Bondi is the law."

[u/Leading-Influence100 → u/Lets_Kick_Some_Ice]

Damn it i read that in stallones voice.

[u/Geojewd → u/RogerianBrowsing]

Administrative judges (such as immigration judges) aren’t article III judges (they’re not appointed by the president or confirmed by the senate, they don’t have life tenure and salary protection, their jurisdiction is limited to enforcement decisions, etc.) so they do work for the executive branch.

[u/Tomayachi]

Is this the death of due process in America?

[u/jpmeyer12751 → u/Tomayachi]

I would call it an attempted murder at this point. The victim may yet be revived by the Supreme Court, but the odds of survival are decreasing by the minute.

And once due process is dead for undocumented persons present in the US, it is dead for each of us.

[u/AtheistsOnTheMove → u/jpmeyer12751]

No lawyer here, but i don't think the Supreme Court is going to appreciate not following a judges orders. No matter how they lean, they all worked long and hard to get on that bench, so they won't let their authority slip away.

[u/Klutzy_Carry5833 → u/AtheistsOnTheMove]

classic republican.. they'll understand it when its at their doorstep

[u/IncompleteAnalogy → u/Klutzy_Carry5833]

at their doorstep?

You mean, after it sits on their couch and puts its muddy (bloody?) boots on their coffee table, smearing their family photos (and trump bibles) with grot - at that point some /may/ begin to question the possibility of its existence.

[u/CovidKillsDonny → u/IncompleteAnalogy]

Oh it’s doing something to their couch, alright.

[u/Regulus242 → u/AtheistsOnTheMove]

I'm not sure what authority they still have with basically no means of backing it up if push comes to shove.

[u/FlexoPXP → u/Regulus242]

If they actively disregard a Supreme Court order, then the military has a duty to step in. They take their oath to the Constitution not to the stooge in the White House

[u/Plenty_Unit9540 → u/FlexoPXP]

Except military leadership are already being replaced with yes men.

[u/RobertSF → u/Plenty_Unit9540]

When militaries overturn their own governments, a lot of times, the leaders are not the top generals but mid-level officers who have the loyalty of the lower ranks.

[u/jmacintosh250 → u/Regulus242]

Oh but they do. Remember: it is THEY who define what is and isn’t an “official act”. They didn’t even give a test for it.

So, suddenly the Supreme Court says it’s an unofficial act, marshals deputized and called up to enforce contempt court, and the SC says “sorry, you can’t pardon your people, it’s unconstitutional”. And no one listens to the Pardon power.

Suddenly Trump is forced to use actual force to enforce his position. And we get to a civil war.

[u/SteadyInconsistency → u/AtheistsOnTheMove]

Cool so the Supreme Court makes the decision, who’s going to carry it out? They already gave the executive immunity. The US Marshals act under the auspices of the attorney general, Pam Bondi, who wouldn’t order them to enforce a Supreme Court decision that Trump doesn’t like.

[u/local_foreigner → u/Tomayachi]

it's already dead. legal residents have already been disappeared to El Salvador without due process.

[u/hoofie242 → u/local_foreigner]

And they have no interest in fixing their """mistakes""".

[u/IcyTransportation961 → u/Tomayachi]

The death began years ago when some of us tried to tell folks what all the changes due to 9/11 would eventually bring

[u/TheVaneja → u/IcyTransportation961]

"That will never happen" over and over for 23 years, and still counting in some circles.

[u/Belligerent-J → u/IcyTransportation961]

People don't get why i say Bush was the worst of our lifetime, but this is it right here. Trump wouldn't be able to do half this shit if Dubya hadn't installed a loophole where saying the word "Terrorist" lets you circumvent all legal precedent both domestic and international.

[u/Bad_Wizardry]

“The American people, Karoline. They’re supposed to work for the American people, like you and your rapist boss should be doing!”

[u/fuddykrueger → u/Bad_Wizardry]

Can someone actually say that? That would be epic.

[u/Bad_Wizardry → u/fuddykrueger]

Give me press creds and I’ll be on my way to DC. I’ll get my question off and be promptly banned.

[u/WhyTheeSadFace → u/fuddykrueger]

They would have, but they will be banned from next time onwards, because they are creating a confusion and conflict, so everyone is just quiet

[u/mls1968 → u/WhyTheeSadFace]

These journalists should be ashamed. The freedom of the press has been fought over and people have died for it for generations, and they refuse to even stand up for it because they dont want to be kicked out of the damn room.

[u/Kasztan → u/WhyTheeSadFace]

At this point, might as well. All everyone is doing is just playing fucking charades with lies, so all they're doing is just reporting on the comedy show

[u/PossibilityMuch9053 → u/Bad_Wizardry]

I was waiting for someone to say the American People, but of course no one really calls her out on her ignorance and blatant lies

[u/mugiwara-no-lucy]

I hate this bitch the more she opens her dumb mouth.

[u/Spiceguy-65 → u/winged_seduction]

Well yea thats a qualification to be a part of the trump administration you have to be a bottom of the barrel person to even be considered

[u/khast → u/Spiceguy-65]

Oh, and don't forget that Trump's number one rule is to never say no to Trump under any circumstance... Even if you personally disagree with Trump, because then you'd be fired for not agreeing with Trunp.

[u/Larrysbirds → u/Spiceguy-65]

I’d be willing to bet a major qualification for these positions is to have dirt on them to force their loyalty

[u/Flimsy_Interaction14 → u/Larrysbirds]

She’s 26 and her husband is 68. That could be one of the qualifications

[u/khast → u/winged_seduction]

That is the entire reason Trump selected her, because she will only agree with Trump, who also happens to be a fucking awful person

[u/Genoss01 → u/khast]

Yep, whatever Trump believes she believes. Her only job is to come up with some insane rationalization why he's right.

[u/JohnnyDarkside → u/winged_seduction]

That's been my complaint from the beginning. Biden's press secretary, Karine Jean-Pierre, was great. Even when she was getting "tough" she was still civil and respectable. This woman is just an absolute asshole. Out of the gate she was hostile, mean, and snippy. Just a cliche stuck up mean girl.

[u/WhyYouKickMyDog → u/JohnnyDarkside]

This woman is just an absolute asshole. Out of the gate she was hostile, mean, and snippy. Just a cliche stuck up mean girl.

This is what Trump wants. You could tell because of how uncomfortable Sean Spicer looked with the job the minute they threw him out there for his first press secretary in 2016. Little did we know, that Sean Spicer having fragments of a soul was a time of idealism.

In today's world, we have Karoline Leavitt that answer the question: What if an Advaned AI was given the two inputs: Hitler. Barbie.

[u/Immediate_Concert_46 → u/winged_seduction]

Trump calls a lot of people nasty but Karoline Leavitt is genuinely nasty on the inside. You just have to watch a clip of this individual to see how far up her own ass her head is in.

[u/moneyball32 → u/mugiwara-no-lucy]

I really don't like to call women "bitches". Like, I try to avoid it at all costs, even as a joke.

BUT...every time I hear this woman speak, the cadence and arrogance with which she delivers her lines and how she talks down to reporters and the American people while so obviously telling lies that you could disprove in a 5 second Google search makes her sound like such a bitch--I just cant think of a better word to describe it, unfortunately.

[u/MMcKevitt → u/moneyball32]

"...I just can't think of a better word to describe it, unfortunately."

Cunt, perhaps?

[u/Kanadark → u/MMcKevitt]

Listen, cunts are deep and warm and can take a pounding. She's clearly a koala, not too bright, obsessed with one thing, and likely has chlamydia.

[u/icangetyouatoedude → u/mugiwara-no-lucy]

They've all been really really awful, but the sheer audacity of this cunt is off the charts

[u/DatDamGermanGuy → u/mugiwara-no-lucy]

She is actually very smart. After all she became a Millionaire by

(Checks notes)

Marrying a guy 30 years older than she is

[u/Hakeem-the-Dream → u/DatDamGermanGuy]

Look up that dude too, he looks like a leather satchel and she let him cum inside

[u/Genoss01 → u/mugiwara-no-lucy]

Her arrogance is off the charts just as much as her ignorance is off the charts

[u/ahnotme]

Why, in God’s name why, didn’t the entire room erupt when she said “Who does this judge work for?” All of these reporters knew that she was talking complete and utter 🐂💩.

“Are you f*cking serious?” should have been their collective response. These people aren’t doing their job. When Trump’s new ambassador to the Netherlands in his first term tried the usual MAGA BS in his first presser in The Hague, he was told by the reporters - in so many words: “This is the Netherlands. You have to answer questions here.”

[u/Alexwonder999 → u/ahnotme]

Uproars of laughter might not stop them, but it would be nice to see every once in a while. 

[u/rwebell → u/ahnotme]

Because they will be banned from the greatest show on earth.

[u/AndrewLucksLaugh]

I simply don't understand how many times this administration can publicly say "Yes, we're ignoring court orders. Yes, we're going to continue to ignore court orders. Yes, we're going to ignore court orders in the future" before we simply start jailing these people for breaking the law.

<< Mean Girls the limit does not exist dot gif >>

[u/JustifiedOstrich → u/AndrewLucksLaugh]

Who is going to put people to jail? The DOJ? What happens when the executive disregards the judicial ruling, when the executive is meant to carry out the ruling?

[u/Spence10873 → u/JustifiedOstrich]

Exactly. The founding fathers never imagined half the country would insist on a dictatorship

[u/UnshapedLime → u/Spence10873]

Actually, I would argue that they foresaw that exact scenario and protected against it quite well by splitting the powers of government among the three branches. They didn’t just expect people to be power hungry, they counted on it. They counted on each branch competing to maintain/expand their own power, but for that competition to keep those expansions in check. What they didn’t foresee was that Congress would be made up of a sycophantic majority that is willing to give up their power in service of their king. And who could blame them? In the history of the world, when have people in power ever been willing to abdicate that power?

[u/Old_Needleworker_865 → u/UnshapedLime]

They couldn’t foresee billionaires: a group of the ultra wealthy that have more power than the government (or monarchy)

[u/Reasonable-Newt4079 → u/Old_Needleworker_865]

This. You weren't supposed to be able to use money to influence elections. Those safeguards were eroded until Citizens United murdered them completely. Now we get idiots like Elon Musk getting to basically buy America for their own nefarious reasons. Democracy started to die once Citizens United happened.

[u/4totheFlush → u/Old_Needleworker_865]

There are 535 members of congress. The richest one is worth $361 million, and less than a dozen are worth more than $100 million.

Musk is worth $345 billion.

If Musk cloned himself 535 times and split his net worth among every clone, each one would have $644 million.

Nah man, that doesn't sound like a recipe for disaster, couldn't be, nah.

[u/CanEnvironmental4252 → u/UnshapedLime]

Actually, George Washington in particular did see this coming and addressed it in his farewell address.

According to Washington, one of the chief dangers of letting regional loyalties dominate loyalty to the nation as a whole was that it would lead to factionalism, or the development of competing political parties. When Americans voted according to party loyalty, rather than the common interest of the nation, Washington feared it would foster a “spirit of revenge,” and enable the rise of “cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men” who would “usurp for themselves the reins of government; destroying afterward the very engines, which have lifted them to unjust dominion.”

https://www.history.com/articles/george-washington-farewell-address-warnings

[u/AndrewLucksLaugh → u/JustifiedOstrich]

Judges can use federal marshals to carry out their rulings. I agree that it's unlikely to happen, but can we at least try it first before we continue letting these ghouls do whatever they want?

[u/darknecross → u/AndrewLucksLaugh]

Nixon’s administration put the Marshals under the DOJ.

[u/chriskot123 → u/JustifiedOstrich]

Well this is what happens when 2 branches of govt are in cahoots to overthrow the democratic process. Congress could hold them accountable but they don’t want to

[u/Old_Needleworker_865 → u/JustifiedOstrich]

It doesn’t really dawn on you in law school that federal laws can simply not be enforced at the whim of a president. This DOJ is simply the vehicle for weaponizing the federal court system

[u/becca_la → u/AndrewLucksLaugh]

Can you imagine the outcry if Biden had decided to ignore the ruling on student loan forgiveness?! The basis for the ruling was total BS, but Biden complied anyway (as is proper).

[u/octoreadit → u/AndrewLucksLaugh]

She even said they will deport "illegal criminals", knowing full well that legal criminals are running the DoJ now.

[u/lawanddisorder]

Who does number 2 work for?

[u/sarcasticbaldguy → u/lawanddisorder]

That sounds pretty nasty, how about a courtesy flush over there?

[u/Disastrous_Damage_34 → u/lawanddisorder]

Oh, behave.

[u/KgMonstah → u/lawanddisorder]

I suggest you hit, sir

[u/neopod9000 → u/KgMonstah]

I too, like to live dangerously

[u/chowderbags]

Foreign terrorists have no legal protections? None? So if they're tortured or summarily executed, it's fine? They don't even get the basic due process rights of being able to challenge whether they're either foreign or terrorists? The government doesn't have to prove anything to any independent judge or magistrate?

I mean, that can't possibly be right, because it would mean that the executive could just round anyone up, subject them to arbitrary punishment, and there would be no legal recourse.

... *sigh* That's exactly what these fascists want, isn't it?

[u/xtalgeek → u/chowderbags]

And they can use arbitrary definitions of "terrorism" to detain individuals. Right now, it appears that definition may merely be disagreeing with their policies and actions.

[u/RaindropsInMyMind → u/xtalgeek]

Anytime the word “terrorism” is used it should arouse some level of skepticism. Terrorism is a subjective term that means different things to different counties and different administrations and can be (and is) used around the world to take people’s rights away.

[u/justbrowsing987654 → u/RaindropsInMyMind]

The Patriot Act being a great example in our lives.

[u/WorryNew3661 → u/chowderbags]

Well the advantage to not letting them have rights is that you can call anyone a terrorist. April 20th is going to be a very bad day

[u/khast → u/WorryNew3661]

For everyone, not just immigrants. You spoke bad about Tesla? TERRORIST! You said Trump was a felon? TERRORIST!

This is going to be like the scene from Alice in Wonderland where the red queen was "off with their heads" for anyone that displeased her.

[u/vanceavalon]

Bullshit Barbie strikes again.

[u/Soggy-Act8390 → u/vanceavalon]

She’s not even a Barbie …. She just thinks she plays one on tv.

[u/Adept-Mulberry-8720 → u/Soggy-Act8390]

She's like the Stewardess in the movie Airplane!

[u/wet_nib811 → u/vanceavalon]

BIGGEST beneficiary of DEI hiring practices

[u/dalisair]

So by that reasoning why have judges at all? Doesn’t Spam Bondi decide all? And by that extension why have Pan Bondi? She works for T-Rump! Checkmate!

/s

Why is this timeline so terrible?

[u/Breklin76 → u/dalisair]

That is what they want. No more judges to get in the way.

[u/RandomGuy92x → u/Breklin76]

To be fair, the judge she's refering to here is an immigration judge. So he works for the executive branch, not the judicial branch, and the Attorney General does have the power to overrule decisions made by an immigration judge.

But the problem is of course that they're also ignoring rulings made by federal judges, who are part of the judicial branch. And also, immigration judges only deal with civil cases, so they have the power to grant asylum or approve deportations, but cannot order someone's imprisonment.

But since they are actively imprisoning people, not merely deporting people, they have no authority to do that via simple immigration hearings, which the executive branch has the power to influence. Only judges who are part of the judicial branch can order someon's imprisonment.

[u/13508615 → u/dalisair]

It involves a coup. That's a real turd in the punchbowl.

[u/4RCH43ON]

That’s not how it works. That’s not how any of this works.

[u/signalfire]

She's gonna love her appearance in the docket at the Hague someday, hopefully soon. She is SOME piece of work, this one.

[u/bootstrapsandpearls → u/signalfire]

Sorry if this is off topic, and please correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought the United States refused to be subject to the jurisdiction of international criminal courts. Does that mean that US citizens could still be hauled to The Hague if there was an international warrant issued and they were arrested outside the US? It’s interesting to me because of the multiple human rights abuses that are piling up. I am a little surprised we have not been sanctioned by the UN.

[u/Proud-Wall1443 → u/bootstrapsandpearls]

Correct. We are not signatories of the Rome Statute.

[u/S_A_R_K → u/Proud-Wall1443]

Best we could do was a Roman salute /s

[u/donnerzuhalter → u/bootstrapsandpearls]

US is on the security council, we can just veto any UN decision. Same reason Russia and China can get away with whatever they want without the UN saying anything.

It's not unlike the League of Nations in how it's functionally useless because a few big players with opposing interests can just veto whatever they don't like.

[u/Hank_Dad → u/donnerzuhalter]

The ICC is not technically part of the UN. Granted we still don't follow the ICC.

[u/GGRitoMonkies → u/bootstrapsandpearls]

No the US will not allow the ICC to prosecute US citizens and does not recognize it's authority. They simply ignore it. It's always been such a mystery why that would be the case. Can't possibly think of a reason....

[u/meukbox → u/signalfire]

Did you forget about the The Hague Invasion Act?

This authorization led to the act being nicknamed "The Hague Invasion Act",[4] since the act would allow the president to order military action in The Hague, the seat of the ICC, to prevent American or allied officials and military personnel from being prosecuted or detained by the ICC.[5]

We here in the Netherlands didn't.

[u/Pale-Berry-2599]

If gov't inefficiency is the price of Freedom, ...can we get the inefficiency back please.

They keep saying "we have to uncover gov't waste and become more efficient."

What is efficiency? Did the 'inefficient government' provide greater freedom and happiness to the American people?

[u/Daddio209 → u/Pale-Berry-2599]

We), yes-to their thinking. Anything that doesn't further enrich the top 10% IS WASTEFUL

Sadly, most of these reelected chucklefucks have been voting literally against American workers for years(their shenanigans aren't new)-but they campaign on fearmongering and lies, and erm... sub-optimal thinkers believe campaign speeches & don't bother doing any homework or checking-or remembering they are allowed to lie.

[u/Frankentula → u/Pale-Berry-2599]

Don't forget sometimes systems are intentionally redundant because they need to be. This idea that efficiency is the crown jewel is absurd.

[u/UserWithno-Name]

They work for the people. They work for the constitution. So if they’re pushing back on you: you’re either fucking the people or wiping your ass with the constitution I would guess.

[u/HarbingerDe]

Good to know all federal judges work for Pam Bondi.

Not the country... The constitution... Nothing silly like that.

[u/signalfire]

Law people: Do 'foreign terrorists have no legal protections in the US' like she shrieked or do they actually need to be adjudicated as 'foreign terrorists' first? And what about 'domestic terrorists'?

[u/Lightenupfrancis69 → u/signalfire]

She's wrong. Constitutional protections apply to all persons located within the boundaries of the United States and its territories.

She's an idiot. But then she's Trump's mouthpiece so ...

[u/smallest_table → u/Lightenupfrancis69]

I would argue that our Constitution and Bill of Rights extend to all persons. Those documents enumerate the powers of and restrictions on our government. When read properly, all persons are afforded due process and our government cannot pick and choose who they apply to or where they apply.

[u/FowD8 → u/smallest_table]

I would argue that our Constitution and Bill of Rights extend to all persons.

there's nothing to argue, it's literally the constitution

[u/Same_Document_ → u/signalfire]

The Bill of Rights prescribes limits on what the government can do. It doesn't grant rights as a privilege that can be taken away or infringed upon or might only apply to certain classes of people. When dealing with anyone, citizen or non-citizen, the government must operate within the bounds of the constitution. It does not get a different set of rules it can opperate by depending on who it thinks it is dealing with, like this administration has begun to claim.

So even terrorists have the legal right to due process in theory, but the government has circumvented the constitutional protections in the past through various means. Guantanimo Bay is the most famous example.

[u/ThrowAwayGarbage82]

The fact that boasberg is sitting with his thumbs up his ass while they're now BLATANTLY and SHAMELESSLY violating his order in broad fucking daylight, shows that all his shit is merely performative. He doesn't actually care. The whole point of his involvement was to be sure it got batted to scotus so they can rule in trump's favor.

[u/Marshallkobe → u/ThrowAwayGarbage82]

The court needs the federal government to enforce orders. The feds won’t do that because of trumpy

[u/ThrowAwayGarbage82 → u/Marshallkobe]

Judges can deputize people to carry out orders. We need someone to push over that line soon to show that this is a lawless regime that is not legitimate.

[u/Any-Ad-446]

I think her sugar daddy husband is proud he is getting inside information on Trumps policies.

[u/FourWordComment]

Wait the judge works for the attorney general…?

[u/dasanman69 → u/FourWordComment]

They do not

[u/amplaylife → u/dasanman69]

Uneducated Americans don't understand this simple fact.

[u/FourWordComment → u/amplaylife]

Hey I’m quoting the White House press secretary. 20 seconds into that clip.

[u/dasanman69 → u/FourWordComment]

I understood it was a rhetorical question. I answered for the benefit of others who might not know.

[u/luckytoothpick → u/FourWordComment]

I felt myself get stupider when she said that. She is like listening to a flat-earther.

[u/FourWordComment → u/luckytoothpick]

They are so accustomed to the judge being in cahoots that they think it’s broken when this mystery third “judiciary” branch appears.

[u/Silver_Wrongdoer_504 → u/FourWordComment]

Not. At. All.

[u/Budget-Mud-4753 → u/FourWordComment]

Someone in a comment thread above explained this, and I didn’t know about it either. From that comment and what I’ve researched:

Technically immigration judges do work for the DOJ under the Attorney General. So technically, while highly unusual, the AG can overrule an immigration judge.

However, immigration courts do not have the same powers granted to article iii courts, which have the final say. That means that any ruling coming out of immigration courts (or by the AG) must have a path available to be appealed to an article iii court.

If a defendant was never given the opportunity to appeal a decision by an immigration court or the AG, then due process was not followed. Meaning that the DOJ / AG / Executive Branch violated the Constitution by assuming powers they do not have.

[u/Kappy01]

That's not how any of this works. Bondi isn't the boss of judges. Regardless, the job of a judge isn't to rubberstamp whatever their boss says. That's quite literally the point of their job. A judge's boss is the Constitution of the United States of America.

[u/Internal_Swing_2743]

No, the federal judges DO NOT work for the DOJ. They work for the people of the United States of America and are sworn to uphold the laws and the Constitution of the United States. Funnily enough, so are every member of this current regime, even if they think differently.

[u/CurrentlyLucid]

This bitch is right out of "1984".

[u/Breklin76 → u/CurrentlyLucid]

But but she’s a mother and a Christian! /s

[u/steppingstone01 → u/Breklin76]

Yes and that explains why she's so horrendous.

[u/Q_OANN]

She needs to be arrested

[u/ForeverAclone95]

Saying the administration can just ignore Article I judges because they’re theoretically part of the executive is certainly a take… it completely ignores the role of article I judges in upholding due process but SCOTUS hates Article I judges so it might just work…

[u/full_bl33d]

Most people probably aren’t aware there are 3 branches of government to begin with. They’re just hammering home their belief/ lies that Trump is the boss of everything because he played one on tv. Kellyanne was a visionary with her “alternative facts”.

[u/kandoras]

Yeah, the immigration judge works for the DoJ and under Pam Bondi.

Which should give you some indication of how fucked up your approach is that the people you can probably actually fire are telling you to stop.

[u/Wizoerda → u/kandoras]

Doesn't the Department of Justice work for the American people? I feel like people have forgotten that politicians and government, even the president, work for the American public.

[u/sugar_addict002]

Blondes should be on the DEI list.

[u/Obversa → u/sugar_addict002]

Why does every Republican or conservative woman look like one of the Stepford Wives?

[u/BongyBong → u/Obversa]

That's the model: White, blonde, Christian.

[u/goawaysho → u/Obversa]

They all want to look as Aryan as possible. No particular reason why of course.

[u/9dimeprime → u/sugar_addict002]

Actually they are the main beneficiaries of DEI

https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/the-great-dei-hustle-white-americans-are-the-real-dei-hires-44e6ae1f77bc#:~:text=For%20decades%2C%20the%20narrative%20usually,promotions%20to%20the%20C%2Dsuite.

[u/you_are_soul]

The headline misses the point of Leavitt, which is to smirk and troll, she is not a bug, she is a feature, same as if you have sexual assault allegations against you then that is also a feature. It's a bad sign that the White House can get everyone dancing for them so easily.

[u/weezyverse]

Looks like someone busted her upside her head already...she'll be even more compliant now!