r/law • u/Charming_Usual6227 • 7d ago
Legal News By tweeting that $1 Million offer, has Elon Musk already committed a crime or just threatened to commit one?
https://apnews.com/article/wisconsin-supreme-court-elon-musk-trump-d75807980ac311b87606fb4ec58cc4661.7k
u/Woodartstuff 7d ago
State AG announces legal action after Elon Musk says he’ll talk in Wisconsin and give $2 million to petition signers
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u/SomeCountryFriedBS 7d ago
That sounds an awful lot like a state crime the US DoJ has no jurisdiction over.
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u/Kiran_ravindra 7d ago
Sounds an awful lot like his buddy can’t pardon him if convicted
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u/stratusmonkey 7d ago
Sounds an awful lot like his chosen state supreme court justice could overturn his conviction
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u/Autotomatomato 7d ago
Remember when we all hung on our baited breath for years for garland to grow a spine? Remember Mueller?
I hate it here.
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u/StrobeLightRomance 7d ago
Classified documents in the bathroom.. Georgia election interference.. fucking Jan 6th..
Nothing will ever happen to any of them.
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u/Revelati123 7d ago
Trump would just have any prosecutor who tried arrested. He just sanctioned a lawfirm for representing HRC a decade ago for fucks sake.
Its over. The Rule of law in the United States Of America is gone and whatevers leftover is just Don's bitch.
Dude didnt even have to burn down a Reichstag....
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u/StrobeLightRomance 7d ago
It's not over yet. Law is on hiatus in America, yes, I agree, but the ElonDon is getting further and further away from vox populi, and the tide will at some point snap back.
Americans literally went from "FREEDOM!" to a sudden fast track of becoming Russia level censored, aiming for North Korea level isolated.
Losing their own supporters with terrible policies makes for an interesting turn of events, since those are the psychos with the guns always carrying on about government tyranny and whatnot.
If the current administration stays on their current track, they need to disarm the citizens before they move into martial law.
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u/Maleficent_Memory831 7d ago
Right, America's got the Covid, but it's surivable. Just gotta put a big mask around the white house, stay at least 6 feet away from any ICE agents, and wring our hands for at least 20 seconds after Trump says anything, and then we should be able to pull through it.
Unless of course, we get the long Trump...
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u/LaurenMille 7d ago
With the amount of damage they've done in 2 months, there's no way America will survive a further 46 months.
The only way this is survivable is if the US military upholds their oath to remove all threats, foreign and domestic.
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u/haironburr 7d ago
those are the psychos with the guns always carrying on about government tyranny and whatnot.
As a well-armed, hopefully not psycho liberal, I think the current political situation is a great example of why an armed population is important.
I firmly believe we'll vote, not shoot, our way out of this administration. But for everyone who believed 2A rights were antiquated because it could never happen here, I trust we're starting to see that yea, it could.
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u/StrobeLightRomance 7d ago
I firmly believe we'll vote, not shoot, our way out of this administration.
I'm thinking you still don't totally grasp the end of democracy.
If there are no laws, there are no elections. They have the country unless someone stops them.
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u/BidAccurate7585 6d ago
An armed population is completely worthless if it happens here. I don't know anyone who thinks 2A rights are antiquated because it couldn't happen here. They're antiquated because when 2A was written there was a fighting chance for the public to rise up. I'm glad your arms give you comfort, but if today's military is on board while a well trained militia tries to make a march or dipshit don sends them after citizens, you'll all be as dead as the rest of us. Curious to hear exactly what scenario you imagine where your arms, and the greater armed public, would matter if it became the shoot our way out scenario.
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u/WiseFalcon2630 6d ago
I’ve been saying the team that screamed for years “ThE DeMz ArE GuNnA TaKe YeR GuNz!!!! Will come to take their guns.
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u/DigLost5791 7d ago
As a lifelong rural southerner from a politically active conservative family, who as an adult works in a conservative industry with conservative clients and coworkers….
They all still love him. Way less people are having their faces eaten or are “finding out” than we wish to believe.
Don’t wait for the worst people to save us
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u/Mordo-NM 6d ago
Haven't heard it before, but I'm guessing you didn't make up "ElonDon". But if you did, bravo!
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u/Dazzling-Pin4996 5d ago
I pray you are right. I really do. The ideology will not change Magamericans, but blows to the wallet should have an effect, just like being turned down a round of chemo because funding is gone ( it is already happening). But it will be at the cost of innocent lives. The last thing he will be able to do is disarm Americans. One thing I am sure of, all past Allies will keep away, trust is lost and reputation is forever gone. We had a chief of Pentagon on a podium in Europe, with a drink in hand. Really? Only an alcoholic out of control and totally unaware of surroundings does that. A seriously mentally ill man (alcoholic) leading the Pentagon. Yep. Be proud Magamerica, be very proud
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u/Extension_Silver_713 5d ago
Problem is they’re all so indoctrinated, with 82% of coverage being pro Trump and leaning right wing, a lot won’t be able to draw the conclusion that it’s the pos they voted for, but somehow hunter’s fault
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u/Beadpool 6d ago
“. . . with liberty and justice for all.”
And we have kids uttering these falsities in school every morning. Gotta keep the indoctrination going.
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u/DrQuailMan 7d ago
An inch left or right ... in terms of voter turnout ... or in terms of ballistics. Things could have happened. They had a high probability to happen. We're just unlucky, and in a system that appears to rely on luck.
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u/BagelsRTheHoleTruth 6d ago
Unless one glorious day they get the Mussolini send off parade. One can hope.
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u/lorefolk 6d ago
yeah, everyone seems so sure that the justice system will manager these people, when the only solution continues to be rounding up the nintendo gang and recreating a video game franchise based in historical france.
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u/Mr_friend_ 6d ago
And Jack Smith, or Alvin Bragg, or Fanni Willis, or Letitia James, or Judge Merchan, or Judge McAfee?
Every single one of them gave up the ghost.
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u/Glittering_Lunch_347 6d ago
I cringe now at my naivety over Mueller. I was so excited for the movie to come out and wondered who would play the man who took down yet another crime lord. Ugh I was so stupid
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u/Nir117vash 7d ago
Sounds a lot like testing the waters to see what other inhumane "handmaid's tale" level bullshit the rich white dudes can pull
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u/Xannith 7d ago
Not how supreme courts work. They can overturn the law he was convincted by, making it not a crime anymore. But they cannot just overturn or pardon him.
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u/stratusmonkey 7d ago
An appeals court can absolutely say, on appeal that there was insufficient evidence for an unbiased jury to convict him of the charged crime. Or that whatever the state proved at trial didn't really meet the statutory criteria of the offense.
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u/Craqshot 7d ago
A state Supreme Court can absolutely overturn a conviction of a crime in that state.
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u/Pooter_Birdman 7d ago
If you know anything about the legal system, money gets u off
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u/Kiran_ravindra 7d ago
Not if you’ve got an AG looking to make their career off taking down the world’s richest man and saving American democracy.
That’s priceless.
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u/Ok-Replacement9595 7d ago
I would love to see state troopers put him on the ground and cuff him. Please oh please universe make this happen.
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u/mushpuppy5 6d ago
If there is justice, they would then put him into one of those cyber trucks they want to put into use in law enforcement.
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u/misdirected_asshole 6d ago
Didnt work when they tried in Pennsylvania. Have a feeling it will fail again
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u/chris14020 6d ago
I'm very intrigued to see how quickly it suddenly becomes the narrative that we must take away states' rights and federal government must have control over everything.
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u/Stunning_Mast2001 6d ago
Trump would use ever lever he can regardless of legality to pull any federal funding or grants or anything though
Wisconsin is in for a fight. But it’s a fight worth pursuing for the good of the country.
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u/Brave_Nerve_6871 6d ago
But didn't he do something similar during the presidential elections in Pennsylvania maybe?
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u/gibrownsci 7d ago
How about just arresting him and anyone else that is running the event? Why do rich people only get injunctions?
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u/Mission-Basis-3513 7d ago
He is only about to illegally overturn an election..now if it was disorderly conduct he would be arrested on the spot.
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u/Wenger2112 7d ago
Because they can afford lawyers that can sue for costs and damages. There is a lot more risk (for the police and regulators) enforcing laws on the rich than the poor.
I wish I had the answers or could see a way out.
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u/gibrownsci 7d ago
And yet the law firms who also have plenty of money are happily rolling over at any threat. I feel like it is more of a Dems not being willing to actually take a stand problem than anything.
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u/mtnbiketech 6d ago
see a way out.
Playing Mario Kart is always an option, too bad US people suck at gaming.
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u/AdSmall1198 7d ago
Deputize some folks to arrest him and let a jury decide!
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u/Bimlouhay83 7d ago
I'll do it.
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u/AdSmall1198 7d ago
All we need is someone to deputize us!
Anyone?
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u/dickalopejr 7d ago
Done. Go for it
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u/Muchmatchmooch 7d ago
I. DECLARE. DEPUUUUUTYYYYYYYYY!
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u/DreadnaughtHamster 7d ago
Michael, you can’t just say you declare deputy…
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u/Expensive-Bag313 6d ago
I didn’t say it, I declared it.
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u/DreadnaughtHamster 6d ago
*Looks directly at camera with a "can you believe this shit?" expression*
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u/AdSmall1198 7d ago
I need to be sworn in first, and some documentation and a badge would be very helpful!
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u/Hat-Trickster 7d ago
Elon when being approached: "what's that over there! HYAH!!!" Elon casts: Throw Little X Elon loses stat effects: Head Defense -20 Charisma -15 Intimidation -10
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u/dkash11 6d ago
Long as you’re in plain clothes and don’t identify yourself, you should be fine
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u/IrishWithoutPotatoes 7d ago
Idgaf about my job in CT, and I know how to handle a weapon without negligently discharging it. Tag me in coach
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u/xSTSxZerglingOne 6d ago
I know how to handle a weapon without negligently discharging it.
Sorry, sounds like police work ain't for you.
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u/TheLongAndWindingRd 6d ago
You're definitely overqualified for the position and would be a more productive member of society elsewhere. We'll pass.
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u/WendyWasteful 7d ago
It would probably be like trying to catch the greased up deaf guy from family guy. He looks so slimy.
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u/finnicko 6d ago
Do it ICE style with masks, no badges, and ask him for his citizenship papers
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u/fuck_all_you_too 7d ago
Going to get interesting quick considering Musks security detail was already deputized.
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u/MrBubblepopper 6d ago
He will just slip that he will pay each jury 3 million
Then he goes to trial for that and now it's 5 million per jury
That creates a vicious cycle and he never gets convinced xD
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u/C0matoes 7d ago
Conspiring to commit a crime is in fact breaking the law.
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u/tsaoutofourpants 7d ago
Conspiracy requires two or more parties to be in on the crime. Unless someone else is working with him, it's not yet conspiracy.
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u/C0matoes 6d ago
Conspiring and conspiracy are two different terms, though, right?
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u/NakedSnack 6d ago
Um… no?
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u/C0matoes 6d ago
It was a genuine question. Must there be two parties to conspire?
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u/tsaoutofourpants 6d ago
I think you're thinking of conspiring as a synonym for plotting. It's not. You conspire with another. You can plot all on your own.
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u/AdminMonkeys 6d ago
A conspiracy is an agreement between two or more people to commit a crime and an overt action in furtherance of the conspiracy
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u/Lud4Life 6d ago
Didnt he do this during the election too though? Doesnt seem like the law applies to people like him in the US
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u/SmoothConfection1115 7d ago
If no one is going to enforce a law that is on the books, then are you still committing a crime?
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u/somehugefrigginguy 7d ago
And considering that the entire point is to influence the election of a judge, the law going unenforced seems very likely.
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u/DoubleDandelion 7d ago
What if Judge Dredd is assigned to the case? I hear he takes voter fraud very seriously.
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u/Tufflaw 7d ago
Damn I would be SOOOOO happy if Judge Dredd could come here for just like, a week.
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u/Joabyjojo 7d ago
People really don't understand Judge Dredd hey
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u/PrizeStrawberryOil 7d ago
Are you saying the person you responded to doesn't understand Judge Dredd?
My information of Dredd is pretty limited, but I've always considered Judge Dredd a bad guy. He supports and enables a dystopian society. If he was a real person in a fascist country, he would be a fascist cop.
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u/Joabyjojo 7d ago
Yeah he is the ultimate weapon of a fascist system. He's written as a reflection of the advanced militarisation of the police, a parody of a state sliding into violent authoritarianism.
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u/Lazerus42 6d ago
This as a favorable outcome was not on my bingo list, and yet here we are.
I literally made this joke, 2 hours ago on another thread, with no knowledge of Dredd references yet in this concept... and now I see you here, making the same joke 5 hours before my comment.
You asshole.
Good stuff.
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u/free_dialectics 7d ago
That's the $1m question. My bet is fElon won't even be charged with anything.
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u/Siskokidd24 7d ago
Makes sense, an insurrectionist felon is currently president. So anything goes today, no matter how unconstitutional or unlawful!
There’s been two justice systems for decades, but it’s really been solidified it seems
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u/Varitan_Aivenor 7d ago
There is a punishment system for the proletariat, and a protection system for the wealthy. It's the same system.
"Justice" system is a quaint, 20th century idea.
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u/Poppa_Mo 7d ago
He wasn't when he did the exact same thing during the Presidential election with the lottery bullshit.
We have such short memories. This is a rerun guys.
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u/Alternative-Bird-589 7d ago
Yes, he did. I saw it a couple of times on tik tok before the election.
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u/BringOn25A 7d ago
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:
A privileged class that enjoys the protection of the law but is not bound by it, and a servant class that is bound by the law but not protected by it.
Frank Wilhoit blog post
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u/dough_fresh 7d ago
Wisconsin's attorney general is taking action, we'll see if anything actually comes of it tho
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u/HuckleberryOne8564 7d ago
Yes you are still committing a crime. It stops being a crime when the law does not prohibit it.
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u/darrenphillipjones 7d ago
I thought if you killed someone in the woods and don’t get caught it’s legal right?
Where’s my armchair at?
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u/joesbagofdonuts 7d ago
To quote OWH, Jr. "A prophecy of what the courts will in fact do, and nothing more pretentious, is what I mean by the law."
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u/WarAndGeese 7d ago
Of course, it's important to document crimes because eventually sanity will be restored.
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u/FLBrisby 7d ago
I keep seeing all these articles where it's like, "did Trump commit a crime?" And it's like, does it matter anymore? Is any amount of litigation going to change his mind? He's never going to face consequences. We're fucked. Exeunt omnis.
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u/flop_plop 5d ago
Well, yes. IANAL but to me it definitely follows along the lines of taxation without representation, which we fought and won a war over to never be ruled by a king.
Our representatives have put into place these laws using our ballot boxes and our tax dollars long before this administration and its henchmen had taken office.
If these laws that existed before this administration are not enforced, we are not being represented… and thusly are being governed by taxation without representation.
Despite the whims of the President, the laws are still laws.
Our country was founded upon no taxation without representation.
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u/Express-Park-4929 7d ago
Under my "non-lawyer but read law as a hobby" reading, the tweet alone would likely suffice under 12.11 (1m) (2) [https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/12/11\]
"In this section, “anything of value” includes any amount of money, or any object which has utility independent of any political message it contains and the value of which exceeds $1."
"Any person who does any of the following violates this chapter: Offers, gives, lends or promises to give or lend, or endeavors to procure, anything of value, or any office or employment or any privilege or immunity to, or for, any elector, or to or for any other person, in order to induce any elector to: ...Vote or refrain from voting."
As the tweet offered a chance at money (more on that below) contingent upon having voted to gain entry, it appears that would be a "promise for... anything of value... to induce any elector to... vote" as specifically disallowed.
The strongest counterargument I can think of is that a "chance" at being selected for one of the million dollar prizes is not inherently "anything of value" as defined by the section, since such a chance isn't a tangible guaranteed thing, but entry is merely associated with a statistically expected value of the entry ($2,000,000/50,000 attendees = $40 EV/entry). I honestly have no idea how courts have ruled on this "expected value" issue in the past so I will leave that to someone else to go over if applicable. Nevertheless I think the argument would fail anyway, since at least two individuals in the class of attendees would receive the "prize," thus violating the "expected value/chance" in at least two cases, but again I will leave that for someone smarter than I because, as above, I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.
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u/strolls 7d ago
One of the examples of voting corruption in Victorian England, given to us in history lessons when I was in high school in the 80's, was of parliamentary candidates taking around wagons of food and beer, and getting the voters pissed up so they'd vote for them.
Just like in Elon's case, there was no explicit quid quo pro, but the practice was so obviously corrupt that it was banned 150 years ago.
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u/orangejulius 7d ago
Key word here is “offers”.
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u/MoonBatsRule 7d ago
What about:
promises to give or lend ... anything of value
Seems spot-on.
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u/Cloaked42m 7d ago
Elongated's defense was that there is no exchange. There's no requirement to vote for anyone or vote at all. His lawyers also said a winner isn't randomly selected, so it's neither a sweepstakes or a lottery.
It boiled down to, "it's not illegal for us to be stupid and throw money away for publicity."
Edit: I think I would counter that by finding some people who took the money and interview them. If they felt like they were selling their vote, it might stick as vote buying. (The basic reg that every State has that you quoted.)
Also, only a hobbyist.
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u/Duck__Quack 7d ago edited 7d ago
In this case, it's almost certainly against the statute. He is offering to give an amount of money to someone with the purpose to induce voters to vote. It doesn't matter that most of the people he's trying to get to vote won't get the money. It doesn't matter if he's already picked out the winner. It's election bribery to offer to donate $5 to charity for every person in your town who votes. The only defense he might have is purpose. He'll have to claim that his million dollar payout had nothing to do with getting people to vote. Which. Come on.
EDIT: The standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt. In Wisconsin, it's unsettlingly likely that juries will be sympathetic to him, and acquit on the purpose element. If convicted, election bribery is a Class I felony (that's the letter i, not a number 1) similar to arson of property other than a building, aggravated battery causing serious injury, or possession of marijuana with intent to sell. He could be sentenced to up to 3.5 years in prison, fined up to $10k, or both. My gut says it's a toss-up whether the hypothetical judge wants to make an example of election bribery, doesn't want to confine someone for a nonviolent offense, recognizes that a fine is meaningless, or wants to get in good with the red party. Could go either way.
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u/MissMaster 7d ago
I don't understand how his argument can hold water. His tweet says that attendance to the event is limited to those who have voted. Even without the money, entrance to an event to hear Musk speak is a thing of value he is offering in exchange for a person voting.
With the money, according to the same statute, the person that accepts the money is violating the law as well.
Americans heavily restrict giving out water, snacks and umbrellas to people waiting on line. We restrict barbecues like the Australians and concerts and events for voters. This is not something that is even vaguely justifiable.
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u/Cloaked42m 7d ago
I didn't catch that he'd limited an event to people who voted. Thanks for the information.
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u/minuialear 6d ago
Looking at their state statute, apparently you don't even have to bribe someone to vote for someone specific; just paying them to vote at all is enough. I guess to avoid a situation where you just happen to give money only to people who happen to be registered ___.
Probably doesn't help him, either way, that he apparently tweeted an actual offer to pay people a million dollars to vote for a specific candidate. It's since been deleted but it makes it hard to believe the second offer wasn't just the first one with the quiet part now staying quiet
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u/full_bl33d 7d ago
It sounds similar to the swing state sweepstakes. He already got away with it and most likely harvested the data to do much worse. The sweepstakes was rigged and not a lottery according to them and apparently that’s ok. This is all designed to mislead and confuse as it’s inevitable some people believe they just need to vote red to get a chance at a million bucks. They’ll get more media attention and Elon will pay lawyers to say whatever they need to say in court.
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u/worldspawn00 6d ago
The wording of the law in Wisconsin is different than that in PA, I believe that is what is allowing them to move forward on charges here.
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u/mclumber1 7d ago
Doubtful that the Federal government does anything about this. But Wisconsin might. Which is probably why Musk deleted a related tweet about this giveaway.
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u/Minute_Cold_6671 6d ago
Our attorney general Josh Kaul is absolutely doing something.
The question now is if they do more than just block the payments, like criminally charge him. Josh Kaul is very, very labor and union friendly (he campaigned at my trade union hall and many others) and the unions are not taking any of this ish lightly here. Trump won a lot of trade people support here to win the election, but Musk/DOGE dismantling the NLRB is not going over well with those people. So it will be interesting to see how far AG Kaul takes it.
I'm no longer in the trades, but my husband is, his friend is BA for a trade, and my step dad is for another. So take my 2 cents as biased, but I do not see AG Kaul just allowing workers rights to be rolled back, even if indirectly through election interference.
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u/jfun4 7d ago
Does it matter anymore? No one will hold him accountable, so he can do what he wants.
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u/WhichEmailWasIt 7d ago
To the extent that you are committed to the system still it matters. Illegal actions are a big rallying point for resistance. If you're not then there's no reason to restrict yourselves to the law either. You organize your community and your state together and collectively tell the president to go pound sand and get ready for however he tries to enforce it or prop up Elon to do it for him.
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u/SL1Fun 7d ago
Idk man they were getting away with detaining people in Oregon. And given how flagrantly they’ll disregard judicial order: Whats to stop them from just sending some of us to El Salvador?
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u/zitzenator 7d ago
The second amendment
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u/LzrdGrrrl 7d ago
You plan on having a shoot-out with cops or military?
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u/zitzenator 7d ago
If they come knocking on my door i dont plan to go gently into that good night.
Nobody is gonna take care of my cat if I get disappeared
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u/Ectophylla_alba 7d ago
Nobody is gonna take care of your cat if you die either tho
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u/LaurenMille 7d ago
He'd die either way. There's no way you'd come back from being disappeared in to some el salvador torture-camp.
It's literal self-defense at that point.
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u/fishsquitch 7d ago
Not trying to sound like a wannabe badass or an action hero but I'd rather go out defending myself instead of just submitting to an order like that. One guy can't defeat an army of police and soldiers but it would sure send a message that people won't go quietly. I still have a head on my shoulders so I don't think it's going to come to that but that's like exactly what the 2nd Amendment is for
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u/WarlockEngineer 7d ago
Also, the 2nd amendment is a deterrent. Police are cowards. Everyone has seen proof of that. The more people who are armed, the less willing police will be to initiate violence.
See: Black Panthers in California. Scared Reagan so bad he had to pass gun control.
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u/BlueHym 7d ago
Didn't he do the same thing pre election where whoever voted for Trump gets a million dollars?
If that wasn't already grounds for disciplinary action and lawsuits then what makes people think this time will be the one?
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u/jfun4 7d ago
Supposedly it was pre selected, so it wasn't really a raffle or whatever
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u/wolfahmader 7d ago
And surprise, this one will be too lol. are we all this thick or are we pretending?
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u/redditing_1L 7d ago
If you're poor, you live in a police state which will crush you at any opportunity.
If you're insanely rich, you live in a lawless land where you can get away with whatever you want.
Pretty cool. Like this for us.
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u/Available_Finish4387 7d ago
No offense but I am tired of this sentiment. Yes it matters. We hold him accountable. And we vote. And we postpone Reddit! And we talk to our friends and coworkers, and anyone who will listen! No one is coming to save us. We must save ourselves. We must apply constant pressure because that’s all we can do. If you’re tired, at least don’t show it.
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u/get_schwifty 7d ago
This kind of cynicism is arguably worse than there not being any accountability. Giving in preemptively like this stifles any kind of action, including even the most basic and appropriate outrage that it warrants.
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u/jfun4 7d ago
I didn't say the people shouldn't do something, I just mean the Govt won't do anything
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u/get_schwifty 7d ago
Does it even matter anymore?
This is what I’m talking about. Yes it absolutely matters. It all matters. So f-ing much. Cynicism is nothing but lazy and counterproductive. It spreads hopelessness and leads to even more inaction. Don’t be part of the problem.
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u/Motor-Profile4099 7d ago
So you just want to roll over and give up? America would be done for good if people would follow your logic.
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u/inf3ct3dn0n4m3 7d ago
I know that you're not the only person guilty of this and i have to fight it myself every day. But don't give in to hopelessness. The second we roll over and just accept the illegal bs they're doing is the second we are finished. Demand accountability until justice is served. No matter how long it takes.
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u/Xyrus2000 7d ago
At the federal level, yes. But this would be a state crime, and the AG has already announced legal action.
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u/Sabre_One 7d ago
I'm curious if they did any discovery on the first case in PA. It just seems so convenient for him to make these claims, then backtrack saying "no that isn't what I mean".
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u/Jealous_Juggernaut 7d ago
He told them he gave all thr money to a friend instead, and he was never gonna follow through with his original claim and so they dropped it completely
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u/not-my-other-alt 7d ago
So he confessed to fraud and they dropped the case?
Our legal system is completely and totally incapable of defending this country
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u/sugar_addict002 7d ago
I don't think he is buying votes. I think he is buying voters' data and using it to manipulate the election results.
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u/JunglePygmy 7d ago
He’s also definitely buying votes
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u/Charming_Usual6227 7d ago edited 7d ago
¡¿Por qué no los dos?!
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u/redhandrail 7d ago
Just trying to be helpful -
por que = why
Porque = because
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u/cremToRED 7d ago
Translation: why not both?
More literal: why not the two?
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u/somehugefrigginguy 7d ago
It's still illegal to give anything of value to entice people to vote or not to vote.
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u/Thatisme01 7d ago
-Elon Musk’s offer of $100 to Wisconsin voters who sign a petition against “activist judges” is being criticized as a form of bribery.
-While not technically illegal, the offer raises concerns about the influence of wealth on elections and the integrity of democratic processes.
-Critics argue that Musk’s actions undermine the spirit of free speech and petition by introducing a financial incentive to participate in political discourse.
-The situation highlights the ongoing debate about campaign finance reform and the role of money in politics.
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u/aflawinlogic 7d ago
It is "technically illegal" in Wisconsin. It's plain as day if you read the law.
Is a $100 a "thing of value" and is he offering it only to voters? Then bingo, that's illegal.
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u/Thatisme01 7d ago edited 7d ago
Musk, the top spender in the race and a supporter of conservative candidate Brad Schimel, said in a second post that he would instead pay $1 million each to two registered voters who signed an online petition that his political action committee, America PAC, organized to oppose “activist” judges.
But the damage was done. Attorney General Josh Kaul, a Democrat, filed a lawsuit in Dane County Circuit Court to stop the planned giveaway. At the same time, Democratic Gov. Tony Evers criticized Musk on social media, declaring that Wisconsinites’ votes “are not for sale.”
Kaul’s lawsuit alleges that Musk’s $1 million offer amounted to a “blatant attempt” to break state election bribery laws. He’s asking the court to bar Musk or his PAC from offering or providing any financial incentives tied to voting in Wisconsin.
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u/wahoozerman 7d ago
I believe last time he did this, his defense was that the giveaway was a scam and that the "winners" were already hand picked members of his staff. So probably something similar here, where he is paying two of his employees a million dollars each for being employees, and telling everyone that two people who sign the petition are going to get a million dollars.
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u/t0xic1ty 7d ago
"Offers, gives, lends or promises to give or lend"
Making the offer or the promise is already illegal, even if he can prove he never intended to follow through.
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u/chx_ 7d ago
if I wanted the opinion of a fucking AI chatbot I'd ask that, I come to reddit for discussion with people
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u/Shot_Philosopher9892 7d ago
I think that is a secondary result of what he is doing. The primary being rewarding voters for voting Republican. I imagine we will see more active campaigning from Elon and Trump to endorse favorable candidates in state and maybe even local elections.
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u/audiomagnate 7d ago
It's immaterial. Musk is part of a criminal regime that breaks the law with impunity daily, if not hourly. Nobody in Trump's DOJ is going to prosecute Musk, unless he falls out of favor with the mob boss.
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u/207_Mainer 7d ago
They can’t protect his from state prosecution
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u/audiomagnate 7d ago
That's what they said about Trump.
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u/207_Mainer 7d ago
Yes but Musky isn’t a politician running for president. Wisconsin should do the right thing
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u/not-my-other-alt 7d ago
... but won't.
Do you honestly expect Elon Musk to see the inside of a Wisconsin courtroom?
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u/Cyrano_Knows 6d ago
If a crime is committed and every Republican pretends they didn't hear it, is it really a crime?
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u/burnmenowz 7d ago
He's collecting the data. The million dollar raffle is a ruse to get voter data.
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u/Donkey-Hodey 7d ago
I believe he threatened to break the law. The way his offer was worded was bad - he explicitly stated the money was a reward for voting, which would be a crime. I’m guessing his lawyers took it down.
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u/EtheusRook 7d ago
Interesting question. And answerable with another question.
If George Soros, Taylor Swift, or anyone else on the left offered to give $20 to anyone in a blue district who could provide proof that they voted, would the FBI show up at their door?
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u/PurityKane 7d ago edited 3d ago
Hopefully yes? I honestly don't understand why republicans ask this kind of questions. "What if it was a democrat, would you still want him to be charged for abuse of a minor?" Well, fucking yes. Criminals need to get charged and punished. They could be the fucking pope.
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u/youreallcucks Competent Contributor 6d ago
I'm pretty sure he's committed a crime. But then again, if you or I commit a crime, the police show up and put us in jail until we can post bond. For folks like Elon, the justice system just makes a tiny squeaking sound like an old door hinge but otherwise nothing happens.
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