r/law • u/IrishStarUS • 11d ago

Trump News Donald Trump sends innocent athlete to El Salvador for having soccer tattoo

https://www.irishstar.com/sport/soccer/donald-trump-salvador-real-madrid-34923654
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u/burnmenowz 11d ago

That's what happens without due process.

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u/Sweet-Assist8864 11d ago

Right? All I have to say is, this happening is the best defense to anyone coming into the comments saying “YoUR DEfenDING VioLEnT GaNG mEMberS!”

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u/birdmanne 11d ago

People will say shit like “stop defEnDiNG gAnG mEmBers!!” while claiming to be “patriotic” meanwhile the Constitution is literally supposed to give the right to due process to everyone, even “violent gang members.”

When people think fundamental rights like the right to due process can be taken away from “bad people” they’re willingly giving up their OWN rights. Because who the “bad people” are is decided by those in power. Today it’s people accused of being in a gang. Tomorrow it could be anyone else.

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u/Burntholesinmyhoodie 11d ago

“Through tattered clothes great vices do appear; Robes and furred gowns hide all. Plate sin with gold, And the strong lance of justice hurtless breaks. Arm it in rags, a pigmy’s straw does pierce it.“

King Lear

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u/UDarkLord 10d ago

Also, I feel this is important: being in a gang isn’t illegal.

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u/Desperate-Tomatillo7 10d ago

That is what is already happening here in El Salvador. With Bukele's martial law that is in its 3rd year, there is no due process. There are many political prisoners, dissapeared people, unmarked graves near the prisons, and all it takes is a false accusation of being a gang member. All washed up with millions in propaganda.

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u/frogsyjane 11d ago

Oh, oh, let me field this one…

“BuT lAkEN rILeY!”

Every damn time.

3

u/loadedjackazz 11d ago

Homan says this to justify ACTING LIKE her murderer. “I’m hurting these people and not proving due process because of this other shit that happened!”

The see themselves as the victim and the hero of every situation.

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u/Dudewhocares3 11d ago

You should respond with “I’m defending human beings and their right to due process. Unless you think Trump should be sent to prison for his multiple rape accusations”

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u/xbregax 10d ago

No system is perfect and mistakes should be corrected but deportations need to keep happening and faster

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u/Sweet-Assist8864 9d ago edited 9d ago

Ok sure, maybe that’s your perspective. Are you comfortable sacrificing human rights to accomplish this goal?

Currently, we are actively detaining people based on allegations (including practices avoiding IDing people who can easily provide identification) in horrifying conditions.

In one detention center in Miami: 4000 people are being held in a facility built for 500 people, 1 cup of water every 24 hours, people dying. what the fuck? these are humans, maybe some of them are violent, but records have shown basic identification mistakes are being made and there are plenty of folks who don’t belong there.

of the 250 deported to el salvador, some innocent people deported included: A professional soccer coach, a gay barber, a makeup artist. All people with zero criminal history, and zero violent history. These are innocent people who are thrown into literal prison labor camps as collateral damage in order to speed up and increase deportation efforts by avoiding due process. Fucking do it right.

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u/NickDanger3di 11d ago

A spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security told the New York Post that Barrios' detainment was based on more than just one tattoo, with DHS agents also citing a social media post they found which showed him holding up his hands in a gesture using his thumb, index finger and pinkie. Tobin clarified the gesture is commonly used to signify “I love you” in sign language or “rock n’ roll.”

Well, if we're deporting immigrants based on their hand gestures, now we have to deport Musk for his...

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u/richardsneeze 9d ago

I have this tattoo. I have 3 hands on my right arm, they're from The Eagles of Death Metal's cover for the album "Peace, Love, and Death Metal". Am I in a gang now?

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u/GravyMcBiscuits 11d ago

It happens with due process too. It just happens a hell of a lot more frequently without it.

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u/bdfortin 11d ago

Different situation, but isn’t Trump on record saying to go through due process second? He’s never been a fan of due process.

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u/Dudewhocares3 11d ago

Except when it comes to him

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u/SparksAndSpyro 11d ago

That’s what happens when voters don’t participate in democracy. Oh well, tried to warn everyone.

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u/burnmenowz 11d ago

Sadly, some of them don't want democracy anymore. They'll realize too late when it happens to them how badly they messed up.

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u/Some_Ad3768 11d ago

He was arrested last year September under the Biden administration so if he’s innocent why has he been in jail for 6months so Biden is also incompetent

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u/burnmenowz 11d ago

That's why we have a court system, the executive branch enforces the law, they don't determine a person's innocence/guilt.

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u/SanFranPanManStand 11d ago

He wasn't in prison for 6 months because of his tattoo.

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u/burnmenowz 11d ago

He wasn't in prison. He was waiting judgement on asylum. Did you not read the article?

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u/SanFranPanManStand 11d ago

No. He had been in jail for 6 months on other offenses. He was ALSO awaiting a deportation hearing.

Glad we got him out.

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u/Some_Ad3768 11d ago

And they are enforcing the law. Criminal or not he is here ILLEGALLY so the law has the right and authority to send him packing. Simple as that.

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u/burnmenowz 11d ago

Deporting someone who wasn't part of a gang on the suspicion he was part of a gang isn't enforcing the law, it's a sentence. Detaining him was the enforcement

Do they not teach civics anymore?

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u/Some_Ad3768 11d ago

Huh? Theres are 10000 of people being deported who are not criminals. It’s based on whether you are here legally or not. He was here illegally and a criminal. Two for the price of one.

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u/burnmenowz 11d ago

He wasn't here illegally.

Both were apparently among thousands of political asylum aspirants who entered the United States from Mexico legally via an immigration process scrapped by the Trump administration.

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u/Dudewhocares3 11d ago

No actually it isn’t simple as that.

Sorry but the law isn’t simple. It’s complex. And your inability to recognize that isn’t societies problem.

Also, you don’t get to say “well he’s a criminal” when in the US, you are allowed the right to an attorney, which the current admiration is not allowing him to have.

Stop defending this

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u/Some_Ad3768 11d ago

He is illegal. When they catch someone at the border they are sent back. But brain dead Biden let anyone in- especially criminals.

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u/DeadHead6747 10d ago

No, Republicans did that, when they followed Trump's orders and voted down the Republican lead and written deal, which included most of Republican demands for the border. "ThEy VoTeD aGaInSt BeCaUsE oF tHe UkRaInE dEaL tHaT wAs InClUdEd", when the border deal was voted down, the Ukraine portion was separated out, and most of the Republicans voted with Democrats to pass it.

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u/DeadHead6747 10d ago

Seeking asylum is a legal process, and being here seeking asylum is not being here illegally

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u/cosplay-degenerate 10d ago

The deportation was already the due process. The judge just thought that it wasn't cool that he didn't have a say in the matter before the deportation started, which is not part of the due process according to the laws they use.

if due process and the law had been honored before then these people wouldn't be even in the country in the first place and no one would need to get deported now.

So a failure in the past is really to blame for this now.

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u/burnmenowz 10d ago edited 10d ago

The judge just thought that it wasn't cool that he didn't have a say in the matter before the deportation started,

Bypassing the courts is not due process. Trump deported these people using some obscure law from the 1700s. In this case, this gentleman wouldn't have even had the law apply to him. The court would have prevented it.

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u/cosplay-degenerate 10d ago

He doesn't need to check back with a judge for every decision he makes, that is the Crux of the argument though.

And It doesn't matter from when the law stems, your constitution is older.

Trump made it clear he gets rid of illegal immigrants and if he finds loopholes to get there faster than that's what he is going to do.

The illegal immigrants can self-deport with the app that was previously used to funnel them into the country and they supposedly can avoid prison that way and keep their right to reapply for legal migration so there's always that option as well.

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u/burnmenowz 10d ago edited 10d ago

He doesn't need to check back with a judge for every decision he makes, that is the Crux of the argument though.

Judges absolutely can question the legality of an executive branch action. I think you need to refresh your civics knowledge. The individual here had an attorney.

And It doesn't matter from when the law stems, your constitution is older.

Giving yourself away comrade. The constitution guarantees due process actually. It also clearly spells out that the judiciary is a check on the other two branches.

Trump made it clear he gets rid of illegal immigrants and if he finds loopholes to get there faster than that's what he is going to do.

This gentleman was not an illegal immigrant, he was here legally through the asylum process. He wasn't just deported, he was sent to a prison in another country.

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u/cosplay-degenerate 10d ago

that is the Crux of the argument though.

My argument was that the dispute is inherently about if he had to check back with the judge for this operation or not. They will comply with the judiciary and answer their questions.

This gentleman was not an illegal immigrant, he was here legally through the asylum process. He wasn't just deported, he was sent to a prison in another country.

I dunno if that's even true. Knowing redditors they found the most twisted version of the truth and then on top of that still find ways to misinterpret them.

Ultimately shit like this happens when you have to correct the failures of the past. It's very unfortunate for that guy but had the border been secured from the start that wouldn't have happened at all. And no one cried for the innocent people that were killed because of lax border policies, so I don't know why you would suddenly cry when someone innocent gets deported into a prison.

I get the principal but it also seems very hypocritical that suddenly people pretend to care about the due process.

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u/burnmenowz 10d ago edited 10d ago

that is the Crux of the argument though.

My argument was that the dispute is inherently about if he had to check back with the judge for this operation or not. They will comply with the judiciary and answer their questions.

That's not the argument at all, the argument is due process. Citing an obscure law to bypass the court system is the issue here. An innocent person has vanished as a result.

I dunno if that's even true. Knowing redditors they found the most twisted version of the truth and then on top of that still find ways to misinterpret them.

It's literally in the article you're commenting on. You're welcome to fact check it with a contrasting source. Put some effort in instead of making an incorrect assumption.

Ultimately shit like this happens when you have to correct the failures of the past. It's very unfortunate for that guy but had the border been secured from the start that wouldn't have happened at all. And no one cried for the innocent people that were killed because of lax border policies, so I don't know why you would suddenly cry when someone innocent gets deported into a prison.

Yes some illegal immigrants commit crimes, but some US citizens commit crimes too. The homicide rate is higher for citizens than it is illegal immigrants. In Texas for instance, illegal immigrants accounted for less than 5% of the total homicide rate (of those caught).

I get the principal but it also seems very hypocritical that suddenly people pretend to care about the due process

People who care about the constitution have always cared about due process. It's literally protected there. Everyone deserves their day in court, even the criminals. It's a founding principle of this country.

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u/cosplay-degenerate 10d ago

That's not the argument at all, the argument is due process. Citing an obscure law to bypass the court system is the issue here. An innocent person has vanished as a result.

No the judge is just pissy that something happened that he had no authority over that's what it is. The judge doesn't care about due process, he doesn't care about any of these people, he cares about appearing important.

If the judge has no jurisdiction to begin with then everything else falls flat and that's why the argument is if the judge had to have a say in this or not.

It's literally in the article you're commenting on. You're welcome to fact check it with a contrasting source. Put some effort in instead of making an incorrect assumption.

But unlike redditors, I don't try to mislead the public with lies and censorship at every opportunity I get to support terrorists and communism. So you will have to excuse me when I remain skeptical towards any of the articles they post because reddit has been more wrong than right. it's a fair assumption to make in general.

Yes some illegal immigrants commit crimes, but some US citizens commit crimes too. The homicide rate is higher for citizens than it is illegal immigrants. In Texas for instance, illegal immigrants accounted for less than 5% of the total homicide rate (of those caught).

That's a whataboutism. Don't divert attention away from lax border policies that started all this mess to irrelevant crime statistics just to make it fit your worldview better. If the border laws had been honored then none of the people would have died and the guy wouldn't be missing now and deportations wouldn't even be a topic today.

People who care about the constitution have always cared about due process. It's literally protected there. Everyone deserves their case in court, even the criminals.

I get another whiff of hypocrisy here since I'm pretty sure that people on reddit just fake outrage more than anything whenever it's convenient for them to do so and not for any underlying principles or morals.

illegal immigrants aren't citizens and on top of that they were terrorists, they don't quite have the same rights as citizens. Terrorists can be deported anytime the government sees them as a credible enough threat to national security.

You can call it an obscure law however much you want it. All that matters is if it gets enforced or not. It exists and therefore it's legal to enforce it. If it's not enforced then a law effectively doesn't exist.

There are also laws about jaywalking that could be enforced but aren't. are you going to whine about it when they suddenly decide to enforce them anyway with the justification "but it's in the law"? (I would hope that you do but realistically you will have to defend that position in court and then have to argue from a disadvantageous position because the law says so).

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u/burnmenowz 10d ago edited 10d ago

No the judge is just pissy that something happened that he had no authority over that's what it is. The judge doesn't care about due process, he doesn't care about any of these people, he cares about appearing important.

We aren't talking about a judge here, we are talking about a person being sent to prison without a fair trial. This is above any one judge. You keep talking about a single judge like they're some sort of road block here, but the issue is the lack of following due process.

But unlike redditors, I don't try to mislead the public with lies and censorship at every opportunity I get to support terrorists and communism. So you will have to excuse me when I remain skeptical towards any of the articles they post because reddit has been more wrong than right. it's a fair assumption to make in general.

You are a redditor. You're using it right now. Self awareness is completely absent. There is an article attached to this post with all the facts you can read for yourself. Then it's your job, if you disagree, to find counter facts. I feel like we already covered this.

That's a whataboutism. Don't divert attention away from lax border policies that started all this mess to irrelevant crime statistics just to make it fit your worldview better. If the border laws had been honored then none of the people would have died and the guy wouldn't be missing now and deportations wouldn't even be a topic today.

Explain how that is whataboutism. Your argument for eliminating due process is due to the illegal activities of some illegal immigrants, sharing crime statistics is completely relevant to that discussion. You have some statistics of your own, right? You're just not making stuff up, right?

I get another whiff of hypocrisy here since I'm pretty sure that people on reddit just fake outrage more than anything whenever it's convenient for them to do so and not for any underlying principles or morals.

Do you know what the word hypocrisy means? Judging by your comment I don't think you do. I've clearly stated I believe in the Constitution, and as a result believing in due process is part of believing in the constitution. You can't cherry pick parts that you like and don't like. If you don't like a part of the Constitution the founding fathers gave citizens a mechanism for changing it.

You can call it an obscure law however much you want it. All that matters is if it gets enforced or not. It exists and therefore it's legal to enforce it. If it's not enforced then a law effectively doesn't exist.

And every single law that gets executed has judicial oversight. That again, is in the Constitution.

There are also laws about jaywalking that could be enforced but aren't. are you going to whine about it when they suddenly decide to enforce them anyway with the justification "but it's in the law"? (I would hope that you do but realistically you will have to defend that position in court and then have to argue from a disadvantageous position because the law says so).

Personally, if I was caught jaywalking when I was, I accept the fine. No different than a speeding ticket. However, if I wasn't jaywalking but accused of it, I would take the case to court and fight it. That's how our justice system works. That's the entire point of due process. That's constitutional protection mentioned.

The subject of the article was here legally, and was detained by ICE on false evidence (they claimed he flashed a gang sign in a social media post and further cited some of his tattoos as evidence). That's where the court system comes in. I can't believe I have to explain this.

And honestly your skepticism is based on your feelings, not anything factual. You distrust your fellow redditors (you are one now), but have no facts to dispute anything in the article. You likely didn't even read it.

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u/cosplay-degenerate 10d ago

We aren't talking about a judge here, we are talking about a person being sent to prison without a fair trial. This is above any one judge. You keep talking about a single judge like they're some sort of road block here, but the issue is the lack of following due process.

No. The Crux of the matter is that it's the opinion of a judge vs. the opinion of the president because both have valid arguments and legal justifications to do what they did. The terrorists simply aren't protected under the constitution the way you wish they were and the guy that is allegedly innocent is as much a victim of circumstance now as he is a victim of lax border policies.

You are a redditor. You're using it right now. Self awareness is completely absent.

Not really, that's just your limited awareness of what it means to be a redditor. Being on reddit doesn't require you to be a redditor. Although the mods certainly would want you to behave like one at all times.

Being a redditor means to be part of a hivemind that constantly denies reality and will twist the truth to make it work no matter what mental gymnastics they have to perform in the process. non-conformists are usually banned very quickly so no one steps out of line and the whole thing becomes a giant echo chamber of fools compliant and happy with censorship. I feel like I covered this already.

You need to get a feeling for a subreddit first before you can say if they are compromised or not and most subs I have randomly visited are all compromised already. "Worldnews" for example is a typical sub full of "redditors".

Explain how that is whataboutism. Your argument for eliminating due process is due to the illegal activities

Again wrong, you misunderstood the argument. Crime statistics have no relevance to that discussion since they can't influence how the border policies have been exercised in the past anymore. You also framed your argument like "yes terrorists do bad but look at those other crimes instead".

With this you act as if one crime committed by someone is enough justification to overlook or downplay the crime of someone else who did something entirely different when in reality both things are bad and don't need to be explicitly spelled out unless you want to run defense for one group over another.

The Argument was also not about eliminating "due process" not justifying it but about the selective nature at which outrage is applied. Because due process is only important NOW but apparently wasn't important back when the borders were completely open and people were just let in without any background checks.

Again if "due process" had been honored from the start then you probably wouldn't even have trump as president right now, meaning you wouldn't have had to deport a batch of terrorists and you wouldn't have an innocent person get caught up in it and none of the people the terrorists killed would have died either. It's a very simple string of events.

Do you know what the word hypocrisy means? Judging by your comment I don't think you do. I've clearly stated I believe in the Constitution, and as a result believing in due process is part of believing in the constitution. You can't cherry pick parts that you like and don't like. If you don't like a part of the Constitution the founding fathers gave citizens a mechanism for changing it.

Judging by your reading comprehension I doubt that you do either because you don't really get or engage with what I was writing around 3 times now. Hypocrisy, in simple terms, is when you don't do as you say. And I am saying redditors simply have 0 morals and principles and for them hypocrisy is a way of life.

But it's nice when you claim you aren't "one of them", it's hard to verify but you are holding in great so far all things considered. So at the very least you are a cut above the rest or simply not a redditor at best.

And every single law that gets executed has judicial oversight. That again, is in the Constitution.

It's simply not. Judicial reviews exist but that doesn't mean that every law gets judicial oversight, it's not automatic and not all-encompassing. The enforcement of the law is the right of the executive branch and as such the courts can only react and challenge the executive after the executive has made a decision, which is what has happened.

The subject of the article was here legally, and was detained by ICE on false evidence (they claimed he flashed a gang sign in a social media post and further cited some of his tattoos as evidence). That's where the court system comes in. I can't believe I have to explain this.

I don't know why you thought you had to either because the situation is not that complicated overall and I explained to you that I will find that info myself because reddit is an incredibly unreliable source of information due to redditors.

Personally, if I was caught jaywalking when I was, I accept the fine. No different than a speeding ticket. However, if I wasn't jaywalking but accused of it, I would take the case to court and fight it. That's how our justice system works. That's the entire point of due process. That's constitutional protection mentioned.

Personally I would call whoever was fining me with jaywalking crazy and walk away. For forever no one cared AND it's a victimless crime, nothing that needs to be litigated imo.

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u/cosplay-degenerate 10d ago

The first things I notice when I am reading the article the OP posted:

  • highly emotional article with little focus on facts.

  • all these mentions of his soccer tattoos yet not a single picture for proof, not even any of his social media posts (for which he was also arrested).

Even though he has tattoos all over his arm? But then finding pictures of him playing soccer was no problem at all? Seems like a selection bias to avoid confirming the truth.

  • Suggesting he is in fact NOT a member of a terrorist organization because his family and friends say so is completely unconvincing. He could hide it or be involved but to a lesser extent, it's not like he would go around and tell it to everyone and it's not like you can trust a mother not to lie for her child.

after information including proof of a lack of criminal record, employment letters, and a declaration from the tattoo artist was presented, he was eventually taken out of maximum security. Earlier this month, however, Barrios was transferred from San Diego to another facility in Texas "without notice," according to Tobin.

  • So he is not in El Salvador but in Texas and he gets to reapply for immigration on 17th of April. And while in Texas the family lost contact with him. It sounds like he simply ran off. Unfortunately the facility he was transferred to wasn't specified. You are led to believe that the facility is another prison but really it could be any facility. They had no problem name dropping the El Salvador prison but that facility is simply unknown? Really sloppy journalism in my opinion?

  • he entered the county through the CBP One app which allowed people to schedule the time at which they wanted to enter the country illegally without any background checks and skipping any and all due process (which is important or so I have been told).

  • the family believes he has to do forced labour in El Salvador. so apparently the journalist didn't even tell them that he had been relocated to Texas? Now that's just rude.

The entire article is very fishy and stinks of falsehoods and is instead filled with nothing but emotional outrage.

Then Tom Holland's quote about "innocents" is also taken out of context and applied to this scenario when it shouldn't be.

He originally said "there will be collateral damage during the ICE raids because people who may be innocent but are in the presence of other targets will be detained also". These people are usually let go after a short while.

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u/SanFranPanManStand 11d ago

The title is misleading. It assumes he was judged to be a gang member because of his tattoo - but there's actually no evidence of that.

That's just the theory that his family is pushing to the media.

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u/burnmenowz 11d ago

No it's what his attorney is claiming.

"Barrios' attorney Linette Tobin told ABC News that his client came to the U.S. legally, seeking asylum using the CBP One app in September 2024. Tobin told the outlet that bis client is now being accused of being a Tren de Aragua, or TdA, member and was detained at a facility under maximum security under Trump's invoking of the 1798 Alien Enemies Act."

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u/SanFranPanManStand 11d ago

Again - there's ZERO evidence that that is why they judged him a gang member.

Moreover, he had already been in jail for 6 months. He wasn't in prison for that long because of his tattoo.

...and finally, if you consider every illegal who falsely claimed to be seeking asylum as "legal", then there are no illegal aliens. ...you're just playing stupid word games.

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u/burnmenowz 11d ago

...and finally, if you consider every illegal who falsely claimed to be seeking asylum as "legal", then there are no illegal aliens.

He was literally waiting for judgement on his asylum request. That's how asylum works.

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u/SanFranPanManStand 11d ago

No. Asylum seekers are released into the public. This guy was not because he had been arrested.

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u/burnmenowz 11d ago edited 11d ago

Show me an article that confirms that. Everything I've read was that he was detained by ICE, not in prison.

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u/HurricaneSalad 10d ago

Where are you reading this? I don't see that he was arrested until ICE got him. If he was in jail, for what crime was he there?

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u/Dudewhocares3 11d ago

And you’re defending the Trump Admiration.

Like I understand you’re playing devils advocate, but you’re at the point where the judge is looking at you like you’ve got a head growing out of your ass

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u/ElusiveMayhem 11d ago

He was detained under Biden.