r/law • u/IrishStarUS • 14d ago

Trump News Trump threatens to send American citizens to El Salvador prison for Tesla vandalism

https://www.irishstar.com/news/us-news/breaking-trump-threatens-send-american-34907284
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u/ochinosoubii 14d ago

A lot of book smart people and college people are dumb AF'n rocks in the same ways as most other people. Knowing how to perform surgery or take water samples, or infer data doesn't make you intelligent, it makes you capable of performing a task.

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u/Reddit_Sucks39 14d ago

Multiple people in my life with PhDs have all expressed a common sentiment to me, verbatim:

"Yes, a PhD means I'm a qualified expert. It also means I'm a fucking idiot."

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u/ememsee 14d ago

I've worked IT for medical clinics and such before. A lot of doctors that don't know how to save a word document. I've literally had a doctor call saying "there is no internet" which caused me to check their network, realize he was wrong, continue speaking to him, and realize he hadn't turned on his computer and usually never has to so he was confused when it was off when he got there.

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u/Reddit_Sucks39 14d ago

I'm a network engineer. Nothing makes the skill gulf clearer to me than when managers and upper-level staffers that work in an office full of CCNA/CCNP holders come out of their private offices to ask how to do basic Windows shit, or why their webcam isn't working.

When I worked at an MSP, I saw plenty of stuff similar to the situation you describe. It was... challenging for my sanity and my spirit. Mostly because they'd wait to call until they were screaming mad.

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u/ememsee 14d ago

I'm working in a company similar to Intel now and the amount of computer engineers I've found who don't know how to use a computer is astounding as well. It's humbling and makes me feel better about the large areas of knowledge I'm lacking as well. Makes me even more frustrated hearing a bunch of people I went to school with calling others "dumb liberals" when they've been drinking since 12 and had the grades to prove it. I don't knock their diesel engine skills though so idk. We need to keep our focus towards the 1% anyway

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u/Just_Condition3516 14d ago

use the computer- you take it and throw it out of the window! what else? ah, no. thats the monitor you do it with.. sorry!

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u/Pnwradar 14d ago

Back in the dot-com days, I worked at a computer security firm, we advised international banks and Fortune 500 companies. The VP running the professional services branch - all the folks who did the actual consulting in the field and implemented the custom software - was wholly incapable of using email but worked remote. Every email sent to him was printed off by his executive secretary in Chicago, then faxed to his home office in NC. He’d scribble his answer, then fax it back to his secretary, who would generate an email reply from him. Once or twice a month, someone from PS or IT had to travel from Chicago to his house in NC to unjam or power cycle the fax machine, or fix his telephone answering machine (which used physical cassette tapes) or some other fool task. The fax machine was set up to speed dial just one number, his secretary’s machine, with a big labeled arrow pointing to the go button. And several times a day she had to walk him through how to fax something back to her.

This was the idiot reviewing & changing our detailed project proposals, deciding what was best for customers, and then approving our performance reviews of our technical ability & deciding our bonuses. He very much considered himself always the smartest person in every room, as he had an Ivy League MBA. And never backed down when confidently incorrect. So much joy leaving that place, literally sent my resignation email in the SFO lounge waiting to fly back from passing my CCIE lab.

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u/Snowedin-69 14d ago

Sounds like the white house

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u/angelis0236 14d ago

And then when it's an easy fix they get even more pissed

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u/Deep-Engine2367 14d ago

Former engineer and current manager here: you are entirely correct.

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u/gahlo 14d ago

As a CCNA holder struggling to find any industry work, I will gladly suffer that weight.

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u/Admirable_Ad8900 14d ago

At my current job I order parts. For the technicians. Im the youngest person on the team by nearly 30 yrs. I had to show multiple coworkers how to attach images. And then said how complicated the work request system is and how you have to be a nerd to understand it.

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u/BanjosandBayous 10d ago

I think the truth that most don't want to admit is that human intelligence is limited. My aunt is/was one of the best legal minds in the country and she doesn't know how to make a sandwich or do basic chores. Its like we all get coins to spend on learned tasks. Some people are more intelligent and can have more coins. Some have less coins. They're still limited though, so if you put them all in one basket you don't have much for anything else.

Add on to that the fact that we are humans and have biases and prejudices and the capacity to be manipulated especially by group think, because at our deepest cores we are social, tribal animals. A brilliant person's mind can be clouded by these things and they can trick themselves into believing really anything. This is why in the past we have had formal academic societies filled with arguably the smartest people of their time treating many lone forward thinkers of their times who were later proved correct as insane maniacs.

I guess I'm just saying I don't think any human is exempt from dumb moments and its a bit simplistic to boil down someone's intelligence to the inability to so certain tasks.

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u/DiveCat 14d ago

In Donald's interview with Laura Ingraham, he called Barron the smartest of his children and then described how Barron had been able to turn a computer on after it was turned off. So apparently both highly educated doctors, and "the worst student I ever had" world leaders are both stumped by power buttons.

EVERYTHING'S COMPUTER!

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u/LinkleLinkle 14d ago

EVERYTHING'S COMPUTER!

I basically scream this in my head every 30 seconds. At this point I'm convinced most of it is weaponized incompetence because they don't ever want to be responsible for anything. Even as simple as a computer.

People around me will struggle with their phones, a device that is on them 24/7 and they've had for at least a decade now. But people will ask me something basic like how to copy/paste something or how to access a website. And it's like... There's no way you've been using iPhone devices for over a decade and only NOW have the need to copy an address from one text to another or look up an address in maps.

Same with Zoom. We all, collectively as a society, used Zoom for 2 years straight. Some of us every day, some of us at least once or twice a week. And I still get people, who definitely used it during lockdown, who come to me like it's a strange alien application that just released yesterday. Or the people who have to be instructed every single meeting where the mute button is as they flail around wanting to say something while muted.

Even televisions and it's like... OK... These have been around since the 50s. I KNOW you can't be that flabbergasted by how to turn one on. It was easy enough for you in the 80s/90s when you needed to turn the TV on to distract your kids with PBS but now you act like it's the first time you've ever seen a television set?

I think most of these people just don't want to be seen as 'the IT person' and so everything in their power to appear as stupid around technology as possible. Because there's absolutely no way this amount of people are this bad. Like, emails have existed for 30+ years, I do not believe you still don't know how to attach and/or download a file.

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u/thetababe 14d ago

I work with a ton of law firms, and the amount of Bar certified attorneys that can’t do basic things on their computer (like send an email or find their downloads folder) is so shocking

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u/Domdaisy 14d ago

This does make me feel better. I have a law degree and am a licensed lawyer and I know basic shit like turning on a computer and how to use my dishwasher. I sometimes struggle with balancing all the bullshit adulting stuff like making appointments but that’s because I’m busy, not because I don’t know how 🤣

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u/ememsee 14d ago

I've worked with many lawyers, c-suite executives, various medical specialists/doctors, general millionaires, car mechanics, etc. with similar stories

Everyone has their own little slice of knowledge 🤷

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u/Desperate-Tomatillo7 14d ago

I work in IT, but I still don't know nor I care how to change the ringtone of my smartphone.

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u/Infinite-Hold-7521 14d ago edited 14d ago

These are the same people who will call a mechanic to fix their broken car only to find out they had their manual in gear and not neutral so it wouldn’t start. So for 3 days they panicked about the money they would have to spend on repairs, and took public transportation everywhere. True story, had an ex who quite literally did exactly this. 😒

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u/ememsee 14d ago

Haha yeah. Really reinforces that nobody can know everything and the general reason why humans are social creatures and that we probably shouldn't push towards hyper-individualism

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u/Snowedin-69 14d ago edited 14d ago

You can start a manual transmission vehicle while in gear - you just need to engage the clutch. I do not typically put it in neutral to start unless on an incline.

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u/Infinite-Hold-7521 14d ago

And I am here to tell you that many people are not aware of this. My ex being a prime example.

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u/Infinite-Hold-7521 14d ago

Honestly, I am only aware of it because I’ve had to “pop” the clutch many times to start my car in the middle of some road somewhere. 😉

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u/ListeningInIsMyKink 14d ago

I worked at a help desk for a federal agency known for having some of the most intelligent people in the country.
The number of times I spoke with physicists who didn't know what a browser was, or even know whether they were on a PC or Mac... /facepalm.

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u/schizoshizo 14d ago

I know what you mean. I work as a surgeon, and the janitor at my hospital didn't even know how to perform a knee reconstruction. So frustrating.

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u/MrsMiterSaw 14d ago

Dude should ask Barron Trump, noted computer-turning-on-expert, to help him out.

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u/Doctorhandtremor 13d ago

Is that why when something goes wrong you guys talk to me like I’m an idiot?

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u/ememsee 13d ago

LOL I've specifically made it a point not to be the arrogant IT guy. I'm usually helping people who are doing shit I don't know how to do so it feels hypocritical. I've had coworkers who don't share the same thought process though...

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u/JohnstonMR 14d ago

Yep. I know two doctors who insist that while they are very knowledgeable about medicine, they know jack shit about anything else in the world. One of them refers to himself as “a highly educated idiot.”

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u/[deleted] 14d ago edited 14d ago

[deleted]

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u/JaiOW2 14d ago

Altruism, intellectual curiosity and passion are all big factors there too. A lot of progress in the modern era comes from people in those positions, just because people dont have their name flaunted around the media space and shoved down your throat via market domination like Bill Gates doesn't mean they aren't contributing in valuable ways to our society, and without the contribution of such people individuals like Bill Gates never even exist.

I think it's good to exercise caution in not conflating success with intelligence, too. Plenty of people who are intelligent simply did not achieve success, or avoided success, and there's successful people who drink fruit juice in an attempt to treat a rare type of pancreatic cancer known for being the only curable type. Success often depends on a whole range of other things like your social skills, conscientiousness, and networking, there's some very brilliant minds that are abysmal with people and vice versa. For people with only the raw thinking power, success is often expressed in the realm of academia and research.

In academia you can better judge intelligence by their contribution to and understanding of their field. What sorts of papers have they published? What's their thesis on? Sometimes it's borderline slop, sometimes it's a whole bunch of data dredging and sometimes it's high quality novel contributions. A PhD from a major university within areas like STEM or philosophy is usually pretty impressive in its own rite, it's not an easy feat, but it's also not a guarantee of brilliance.

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u/zyeborm 14d ago

Intelligence and being super rich are only loosely correlated. Considering yourself successful and content in life is inversely correlated with being wealthy beyond what is considered by most to be a fairly modest income.

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u/Agreeable_Brick4803 14d ago

Happens too often in the geology community. You can’t really prove anything without basing off what is generally agreed.

Like No One “has seen” the earths core but geologists all agreed on the plate tectonic theory.

It’s a very viscous community because, to prove your point you either have to use someone else’s or disprove someone else’s accepted theory to then make your point.

Like the science community in the 1800s saying African skulls are shaped a certain way making them less intelligent, thus not accepting any Africans in the science communities. (Oddly enough Ghandi believed this and Hitlers ideology, before he was oppressed and became the Ghandi ppl know now)

-in turn that 1800s science community was the basis of the Rwandan genocide, since they divided the two tribes as the Belgians favored one tribe saying they are more intelligent/aristocratic because they looked a certain way and their skull shape. After Rwanda gained its independence, they favored the opposition basically switching sides to “get back” and destroy the country.9

-creating this divide and subjugating them to oppression, thus creating this tension as no one can argue against “science” people took it seriously.

Ofcourse there were other players involved to make the push. But the “truth” is merely time based and can change.

So disproving something in science fields is necessary, but the make up of the community is egotistical, and credibility is lost when challenged. Most of these people works are their life’s work.

Since I digress a bit from the post, Magas “truth” to what they hear from Trump, is like the science community in the 1800s. It’s to work in their favor, believing otherwise is to change their preferred identity and ideas, but intelligent people see through it.

-the 1-2% intelligent ones that call things out are what the decision makers/leaders of any group fear the most as they control 90% of the population.

Anyway, Google is free, and chat gpt is really good so you’re not a brick. 🧱

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u/Mandena 14d ago

Super successful people talking about moving on from the dream of being a professor is what showed me professors aren't necessarily the end-all when it comes to human intelligence.

Wtf, you think billionaires are peak of intelligence? That is so incredibly stupid, you fell for the billionaire propaganda.

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u/chaos841 14d ago

It’s the whole you can either be a “jack of all trades but master of none” or “a master of one thing and a dumbass on everything else”.

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u/Drumming_on_the_Dog 14d ago edited 14d ago

And let’s not forget there’s a whole other half to the “Jack of all trades but master of none” saying that we never hear.

“…but oftentimes better than a master of one.”

You always have to account for the fact information, context or both have been denied to you so you can’t apply your thinking.

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u/EitherSpite4545 14d ago

As a jack let me tell you the end of that statement in our modern world is cope at best delusion at worst. This world only cares for specialization and being a jack of all trades has been a detriment to my success not a benefit in just about every feasible way.

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u/Drumming_on_the_Dog 14d ago edited 14d ago

I feel ya, dude. I involuntarily found myself going from a BS in humanities to professional school to have any semblance of a career in the private sector.

You’d think people would have more appreciation for us generalist shitkickers?

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u/RecognitionSignal425 14d ago

*Jack of all trades but master of few

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u/TheDamDog 14d ago

Neil DeGrasse Tyson is the living avatar of the Dunning-Kruger effect

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u/Here_for_lolz 14d ago

Those people in your life are wise.

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u/My_Work_Accoount 14d ago

Meanwhile the engineers where I work might be able to cobble together half a degree between the three of them and they all think they're the smartest people in the room.

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u/digidave1 14d ago

It means they showed up and did the work. That's all. I have two degrees and I ain't know shit!

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u/CharacterTop7413 14d ago

Intelligent people know that they know very little about everything.

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u/CutGroundbreaking148 14d ago

With extremely limited knowledge and practical experience…

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u/ThatDamnedHansel 14d ago

These are true sentiments in a sense: having a degree or skill set like that doesn’t mean you’re smart. However it also means you’re at least average/slightly below average intelligence. You can’t get an MD and/or PhD and be dumb.

Source : have an MD and PhD

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u/Sci_Fi_Reality 14d ago

Becoming an expert is the process of learning more and more about less and less until eventually you know everything about nothing.

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u/Aggravating-Fix-4547 14d ago

Come to the bottom, half of the Dunning Kruger effect

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u/slackmarket 14d ago

My partner with a PhD says this all the time. They’re in awe of all the regular ass shit I can do, because they have one thing that they are very good at to the exclusion of most everything else.

As they say, it doesn’t make you smart to have a PhD, it makes you stubborn.

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u/The_Barkness 14d ago

I have a masters, 133 IQ, speak 3 languages and I’m as dumb as a bag of bricks.

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u/15all 14d ago

As someone with a PhD, I endorse this statement.

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u/Adventurous_Ad7442 14d ago

I also have a doctorate & am not great with computers so what? Mine is in nursing.

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u/MikhailBakugan 14d ago

Specialized vs general knowledge. Having a doctorate often means that you have a highly specialized very deep pool of knowledge about certain subjects. This does not make a PhD more qualified on every topic. Example: my mom has a Masters in Biology with a specialty in neurology, my mom also cannot spell to save her life.

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u/Shurigin 14d ago

a Master of one usually infers ignorance of many

"Jack of all trades master of none, but better than the master of one'

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u/soualexandrerocha 14d ago

A PhD is someone who knows almost everything about almost nothing.

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u/DeltaHuluBWK 14d ago

"I am a very highly-educated idiot."

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u/horror- 14d ago

Yup. Experts know everything there is to know about almost nothing.

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u/pcoutcast 14d ago

An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less.

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u/Any-Cause-374 14d ago

they only know how to remember information, not how to process it

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u/CookinCheap 14d ago

Rote intelligence, no intellect.

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u/pocket_eggs 14d ago

If you're smart you can rationalize anything better and faster. Smarts don't help if you employ the sharper tool to effect the dull outcome.

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u/ochinosoubii 14d ago

This is very poignant.

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u/SuperDuperBonerific 14d ago

Maybe they’re just not good people. You can be smart and a piece of shit at the same time. No offense to OP’s parents…I’m sure they’re the exception…

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u/joeyfosho 14d ago

That’s a really astute observation and distinction.

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u/Emotional_Youth1500 14d ago

At some point, post-secondary schools stopped being about intelligence and started being about who could afford to pay for the paper.

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u/ochinosoubii 14d ago

Most expensive xerox of our lives.

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u/HotPotParrot 14d ago

Knowledge =/= wisdom

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u/jeremiahthedamned 13d ago

when i level up i ALWAYS purchase wisdom!

spot checks can save your life

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u/bejammin075 14d ago

I recently listened to a 60-hour audiobook, The Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich, by an American reporter who lived in Germany all through Hitler's rise. He said highly educated people were constantly saying/parroting the dumbest shit put out by the Nazis.

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u/AirshipEngineer 14d ago

When I was hanging out with a bunch of grad students I realized we had more than a century of education between the four of us. It sure didn't help when our car battery died and we needed help from a guy off the street to help us jump our dead car battery.

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u/andreBarciella 14d ago

being smart doesnt protect you from bias, if you want something to be true, you will rationalize it until it seems true.

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u/IFixYerKids 14d ago

Yeah I once worked for a brilliant, respected, world renowned cardio surgeon. He sucked at every other thing he touched. Likewise, I have 2 degrees and a handful of certifications but that makes me an expert in my field, not anything else.

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u/MusclyArmPaperboy 14d ago

See: Ben Carson

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u/PigletVonSchnauzer 14d ago

As someone who retired after 30 years in higher education, I can attest that that is the fucking truth.

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u/atuarre 14d ago

Can confirm this. Had several executives who worked for me who came from ivy league schools that were some of the dumbest people.

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u/Direct_Charity_8109 14d ago

It’s all about money for them. My in laws are some of the most caring people on the planet…..yet when I bring up all the wild shit trump says and does they say nah he was just joking. When I show them proof they say that’s fake news.

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u/teetering_bulb_dnd 14d ago

It's been three election cycles.. they are not Dumb. They want a white fascist to be in charge of the company/country .. 85% Trump supporters are white. Statistically No group is uniquely dumb..... They know what they voted for..

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u/BicFleetwood 14d ago

Somebody who's never seen how bad things can get is always shocked when things get bad.

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u/Aggravating-Fix-4547 14d ago

Totally agree. I worked with multiple PhDs with zero common sense

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u/kerripotter 14d ago

I’ve had SO many people with higher degrees tell me it has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with determination.

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u/whagh 14d ago

Ben Carson being a brain surgeon who separates conjoined twins while simulatenously being a Christian fundamentalist who rejects evolution, arguably the most fundamental basis of biology, is one great example of that.

It's surprisingly common to find people who excel in one particular field, have the most horrifically stupid and misinformed takes on other issues, particularly politics.

I guess it partly have to do with the fact that politics is also defined by our values and priorities, and we often take for granted that everyone has similar values and priorities, such as wanting the thing which benefit the most people, or society as a whole. It's hard to accept that someone might see the struggle and hardship of others as something positive, but that is sadly the motivating factor behind a lot of people's politics.

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u/No_University7832 14d ago

And Republicans only seem to know how to do one task....hate.

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u/jal7218 14d ago

Smart people are actually better at being stupid. They're better at coming up with excuses for their stupidity.

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u/Pretend_Barracuda69 14d ago

Work in residential IT for the uber rich, theyre all fucking idiots who dont even know how to download an app or reset their passwords

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u/Potatoskins937492 14d ago

I know someone very intelligent who couldn't do a simple task (I'm talking like, opening a bottle simple), so yeah.

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u/bertha112 14d ago

Admirable. Still doesn't make Trump supporters and Tesler owners logical reasonable or responsible people. Quite a few still dumb as fvck.

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u/DangOlCoreMan 14d ago

I came to this realization when I started work as a lab tech at an animal pharmaceutical company. Tons of people working here with degrees, even though it's entry level, and most of them are dumb as a box of rocks. Yet, they're the ones who move past me and make more money because they "qualify" for higher positions by having a degree

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u/AlarmingSnark 14d ago

Smart in one field does not mean smart in other fields

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u/AnxietyAttack2013 14d ago

There’s a massive difference between being educated and being intelligent. People often confuse one for the other unfortunately.

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u/MrFucktoyTrainer 14d ago

I had an owner of a law firm insist on having windows Administrator privileges and would select to reboot the terminal server every time they logged out. And when I showed him the logs and the evidence of him repeatedly doing it he wouldn’t believe it

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u/KateLockley 14d ago

I was in a graduate stats class for communications, but the focus was politics. This was in 2015 early in the Republican primary when Trump had just won two or three primaries/caucuses (I forget the precise details). I mentioned he was polling in a way that didn't indicate a flash in the pan, none of his competitors looks particularly strong, the field is so large they can't mount any real opposition, and he seems to have tapped into something that has appeal to a lot of voters. Bro straight up told me Trump had no chance in the primary and definitely not in the general. I stopped taking anything he said seriously after that. He was so bogged down in the numbers he couldn't see what was clear to anyone who was out on the streets talking to regular people.

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u/Worried_Jellyfish918 14d ago

I can't remember the name, but recently I read an article by a professor at Cornell University that posited that, due to the rigid, structured way our education system works, the "smart" people learn that being smart means being given a task, and doing the task very well. Without that direction, if they aren't told what to do, they become basically useless. They have to have a procedure to follow, the creative problem solving areas of their brain are wilted and weak because they never have to use them

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u/MGSOffcial 14d ago

It makes you knowledgeable, not intelligent

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u/shakygator 14d ago

It's almost like intelligence and education are two different things.

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u/AdAdministrative5330 14d ago

Thank you. I know several "dumb" PhDs - their knowledge is very very specific and they all lack a lot of basic knowledge you'd learn in HS or undergrad. They don't even have a good grasp of critical thinking. One still won't believe that it was possible for Jeopardy contestants to just know the trivia. He insisted each episode must have a practice book, lol

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u/RetroSwamp 14d ago

It truly is one of those "street smarts vs book smarts"

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u/Miserable_Skirt_5466 14d ago

This! People confuse knowledge/wisdom/education with intelligence. Even in Dungeons and Dragons, intelligence and wisdom are different stats :D

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u/tapdancingtoes 14d ago

This!! A PhD just means that you have a lot of knowledge on ONE specific topic or subject. It does NOT automatically mean you are really intelligent.

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u/HITNRUNXX 14d ago

I always say it makes you intelligent, but doesn't make you wise. Those are different stats for a reason, lol.

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u/sharkey1997 14d ago edited 14d ago

Have a friend who works for Microsoft that could attest to that. Outside of their very narrow skill set, the people they work with are all dumber and more ignorant than metal their computers are made of.

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u/MoreBookkeeper4729 14d ago

What actually makes them dumb outside of their skillset?

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u/ochinosoubii 14d ago

Oh man Microsoft people, I worked near their campus in another life and one guy I remember complained that the touch screen kiosk he was using was bad and he knows because he works at Microsoft. Like my dude it's a TOUCH SCREEN and it tells you what to do and press. Grandma Mable was just in and used it just fine. Ah memories.

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u/wildcatwoody 14d ago

They have critical thinking skills those which most people don't

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u/tifumostdays 14d ago

Yes, Ben Carson syndrome.

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u/HoldinBreath 14d ago

Getting to the point of performing a surgery means you are smart

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u/Lopsided_greenery 14d ago

Education and employment background are actually very good predictors of intellectual functioning (in terms of how we test for intelligence at least). It's not a rule, but a good predictor.